Commonly Broken Rules

who what when

This follows from another thread but thought it could be a good idea. Obviously rules are considered extremely important in golf but what are the common well known rules you often see broken.
And I suppose you could include breaches of etiquette as well.

Ok I'll start: people grounding their club in bunkers seems to be quiet common.

f22

Asking playing partners the club they just hit

heavyballs

who what when wrote: »

This follows from another thread but thought it could be a good idea. Obviously rules are considered extremely important in golf but what are the common well known rules you often see broken.
And I suppose you could include breaches of etiquette as well.

Ok I'll start: people grounding their club in bunkers seems to be quiet common.

don't think it's too common tbh
agree with F22 regarding clubbing and also distance
some others
1.Teeing up slightly ahead of the marker.
2.Bad marking. (ala Elliott Saltman)
3.Placing in the rough on top of daisies etc instead of touching the actual ground.
4.A lot of players have No idea of what 'nearest point of relief' means,especially when a path with light rough on 1 side and heavy ****t on t'other is involved.

ssbob

Alot of people use their putter to lean on when taking the ball from the hole I heard somewhere that this is not allowed.

Other than that leaving the pin in when putting.

Batesy

I thought you could ask for advice on distances?

heavyballs

Batesy wrote: »

I thought you could ask for advice on distances?

not sure but if you could where do you draw the line,for eg you're 150 away but it's playing about 160 into the wind
bit like having a caddy

soundsham

Pointless thread if the posters are commenting on what they heard or what might be a rule break
Would be useful if people were 100% on a specific rule

Paulusmaximus

Dropping from a water hazard, be it lateral or casual, seen so many instances of it being done incorrectly.

Batesy

Yeah, It's a bit unclear. In the rules it says:

During the round:
• Don’t ask for “advice” from anyone except your partner (i.e. a
player on your side) or your caddies. Don’t give advice to anyone
except your partner.You may ask for information on the Rules,
distances and the position of hazards, the flagstick, etc. (Rule 8-1)

But then @ 8-1 it says:

8-1.Advice
During a stipulated round, a player must not:
a. give advice to anyone in the competition playing on the course
other than his partner, or
b. ask for advice from anyone other than his partner or either of their
caddies.

edit: actually when reading it again it says: You may ask for information on the Rules,
distances and the position of hazards, the flagstick, etc. directly after saying you can't ask any advice from anyone other than you playing partner so what it should read is: You may ask for information "from your playing partner" on the Rules,
distances and the position of hazards, the flagstick, etc.

Should be a lot clearer.

Paulusmaximus

you can ask for information on what is fact, e.g how far is it from "that tree" or "that marker" or how far on is the flag etc.

Where its classed as advice is when you give an opinion on what to do with the shot, what to hit or how long its playing,

this would be my interpretation of it anyway.

stockdam

Most of the people I play with know and stick to the rules.

If I'm playing in a society then the one that I generally have to give a "ruling" on is where they can drop if the ball is unplayable.

The other one that I've never pulled anyone up on but have been tempted to is when playing a provisional ball. You must clearly state that it is provisional....."I'll hit another one" could mean that you think that the first ball is lost and you are playing a 2nd ball. Often the person just hits another ball and assumes that everybody knows it is provisional; but if the first ball is lost then they try to pretend that they've already hit "three from the tee".

GreeBo

+1 on nearest point of relief. ("but that puts me behind the trees..." ):rolleyes:
+1 on declaring a ball provo

- Raking bunkers before the shot (typically raking footprints created when getting the rake)
- Taking unplayable relief measured from the edge of the "hazard" rather than the position of the ball.
- Redropping the ball because it moves backwards.
- Dropping the ball in front of the original spot

@Batesy
You can ask for information from anyone, advice can only come from caddy or playing partner (team/fourball/somes)

Webbs

heavyballs wrote: »

don't think it's too common tbh
agree with F22 regarding clubbing and also distance
some others
1.Teeing up slightly ahead of the marker.
2.Bad marking. (ala Elliott Saltman)
3.Placing in the rough on top of daisies etc instead of touching the actual ground.
4.A lot of players have No idea of what 'nearest point of relief' means,especially when a path with light rough on 1 side and heavy ****t on t'other is involved.

I thought obviously mistakingly that you can place your ball however you like within your clubs local rule distance.
How does this apply when placing is everywhere and not just mown areas? Do you have to push your ball into the grass to touch the ground?

G1032

heavyballs wrote: »

don't think it's too common tbh
agree with F22 regarding clubbing and also distance
some others
1.Teeing up slightly ahead of the marker.
2.Bad marking. (ala Elliott Saltman)
3.Placing in the rough on top of daisies etc instead of touching the actual ground.
4.A lot of players have No idea of what 'nearest point of relief' means,especially when a path with light rough on 1 side and heavy ****t on t'other is involved.

And this, along with a few other broken rules, is a major reason why we're seeing 46 and 47 and 48 point rounds..................people ignorant of the rules and just doing what suits them

Mister Sifter

GreeBo wrote: »

- Raking bunkers before the shot (typically raking footprints created when getting the rake)

Nothing wrong with that unless you're 'testing the sand'. That's obviously open to interpretation, but would be very hard to pull someone on it.

londonred

Retaking /practising putts after finishing a hole , taking out a different compression ball e-g a pro v for the par threes.

Mister Sifter

londonred wrote: »

Retaking /practising putts after finishing a hole.

You're fine to do this unless a club has a local rule stipulating otherwise. As long as it's the hole just played.

I've heard it said that saying 'take your time' to a player when, for example, he's going to finish out putting 'out of turn', is against the rules. I hear that said a lot.

GreeBo

Mister Sifter wrote: »

You're fine to do this unless a club has a local rule stipulating otherwise. As long as it's the hole just played.

I've heard it said that saying 'take your time' to a player when, for example, he's going to finish out putting 'out of turn', is against the rules. I hear that said a lot.

Its deemed as giving advice, same as "swing slower" so yes its not allowed.

You can switch balls between holes, just not during a hole (unless allowed by a specific rule e.g lost ball)

Webbs

londonred wrote: »

Retaking /practising putts after finishing a hole , taking out a different compression ball e-g a pro v for the par threes.

Whats wrong with that?

Mister Sifter

GreeBo wrote: »

Its deemed as giving advice, same as "swing slower" so yes its not allowed.

Bit of an odd one. Any idea what the penalty is for saying it? I reckon i hear that said at least once per round. Have never heard of anyone being picked up on it either.

Anatom

Here's some things I hate on the course...

- Lads saying things like "I knew that should have been a six-iron" after hitting their shot (constitutes advice to the next man up?)
- Mis-marking their ball on the greens - especially forgetting to replace the ball in its proper position if they had to mark it out of someone else's line first (Mind you, I've forgotten to do this myself in the past too!)
- Talking to someone else when player is taking a shot (not a RULE, I know, but is just as important from an etiquette point of view)
- Standing/moving in the eye-line of someone taking a putt (Incredibly annoying)
- Playing out of turn (i.e. when you're just about to take your shot and you hear your partner's club-strike just at the top of your backswing from the other side of the fairway)
- (At this time of year) Lift and clean everywhere means to some people that they can move their ball about eighteen inches from its original position to find the appropriate "daisy" to tee it up on!

There would be others, but I'm too annoyed now just thinking about it...:mad:

chalkie 501

standing behind someone putting to see the line(unless they are a 4balletc partner)is a commenly broken rule......also i was once told something regarding fixing pitchmarks off the green,cant remember what it was exactly...im sure someone will remind me??

G1032

londonred wrote: »

Retaking /practising putts after finishing a hole , taking out a different compression ball e-g a pro v for the par threes.

Since when has this been a breach of the rules? As long as you don't unduly delay play it's perfectly acceptable

heavyballs

Webbs wrote: »

I thought obviously mistakingly that you can place your ball however you like within your clubs local rule distance.
How does this apply when placing is everywhere and not just mown areas? Do you have to push your ball into the grass to touch the ground?

if you see the pros placing the ball say after 2 rolls into the lake they always place it down,i.e the ball is actually touching a portion of the ground not just lying nicely on top of the nice lush grass

dnjoyce

heavyballs wrote: »

if you see the pros placing the ball say after 2 rolls into the lake they always place it down,i.e the ball is actually touching a portion of the ground not just lying nicely on top of the nice lush grass

If you're placing the ball after a couple of drops it was my understanding that you placed it in the point where the drop touches the ground - no need to bury it in the ground or otherwise...could be wrong though.

heavyballs

dnjoyce wrote: »

If you're placing the ball after a couple of drops it was my understanding that you placed it in the point where the drop touches the ground - no need to bury it in the ground or otherwise...could be wrong though.

no expert here tbh but i always assumed the ball had to be actually touching the ground

Screaminmidget

chalkie 501 wrote: »

standing behind someone putting to see the line(unless they are a 4balletc partner)is a commenly broken rule......also i was once told something regarding fixing pitchmarks off the green,cant remember what it was exactly...im sure someone will remind me??

You can't fix you plug mark on the green if you are off the green. So if you are on the fringe And your plug is 6 inches infront of you, you can't touch it.

Fore Iron

londonred wrote: »

Retaking /practising putts after finishing a hole , taking out a different compression ball e-g a pro v for the par threes.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Only professional events require the same brand and model of ball to be played. Amateur competitions never do. As long as you've got an approved ball it doesn't matter what ball you use on individual holes.

Webbs

heavyballs wrote: »

if you see the pros placing the ball say after 2 rolls into the lake they always place it down,i.e the ball is actually touching a portion of the ground not just lying nicely on top of the nice lush grass

Placing ball on top of a lush bit of grass means the ball is more likely to move when addressing the ball esp on a slope I wouldnt try to balance it on lush grass in that event.
I have had a look through the R&A site and cant see anything that says how you have to place your ball. Though I could definitely be open to correction here as didnt look exhaustively through the rules

WHIP IT!

londonred wrote: »

Retaking /practising putts after finishing a hole

Have to say, I thought this was an infraction of the rules as well - I thought matchplay was the only time it was allowed. Does it not constitute taking a practice stroke during a competitive round and is this not against the rules?

PhilipMarlowe

Screaminmidget wrote: »

You can't fix you plug mark on the green if you are off the green. So if you are on the fringe And your plug is 6 inches infront of you, you can't touch it.

Wrong!
You can repair a (any) plug mark on the green at ANY TIME.
What you can't do is repair a plug mark on the fringe (not on the green in other words) that your ball made before spinning back (further off the green)... that's improving you lie because you're not on the green yet.

However, just to confuse you some more, if you hit your ball and it ended up just short of the green and a fellow competitor then hit his tee shot and made a plug mark on the fringe just in your line, you would be entitled (in equity) to repair it (his) as it was made after your shot!

G1032

Screaminmidget wrote: »

You can't fix you plug mark on the green if you are off the green. So if you are on the fringe And your plug is 6 inches infront of you, you can't touch it.

This is incorrect.
You can fix a plug mark on the green if your ball is off the green. You can't repair a plug mark off the green if you're ball is off the green.

However, just to confuse you some more, if you hit your ball and it ended up just short of the green and a fellow competitor then hit his tee shot and made a plug mark on the fringe just in your line, you would be entitled (in equity) to repair it (his) as it was made after your shot!
Didn't know this. I always thought you weren't allowed repair any mark on the fringe.

Mono25

what about tapping in a putt say from on the lip of the cup one handed while holding the flag in the other.

was told in a competition that this is breaking the rules

Mister Sifter

Mono25 wrote: »

what about tapping in a putt say from on the lip of the cup one handed while holding the flag in the other.

was told in a competition that this is breaking the rules

Yeah that's right. Late on the tee is another one. Always thought there was a 10 min grace period, but any longer than that and you're DQed.

upthe19th

Mono25 wrote: »

what about tapping in a putt say from on the lip of the cup one handed while holding the flag in the other.

was told in a competition that this is breaking the rules

At a rules night in the club I was told that holding a flag in one hand while putting in such a instance was within the rules

Mono25

in relation to the flag holding one i cant see why there is a penalty. what possible advantage is someone getting by doing that.

i know there are some ridiculously harsh rules but MOSTLY there is some sort of advantage even miniscule gained.

Some rules are baffling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GreeBo

Mister Sifter wrote: »

Bit of an odd one. Any idea what the penalty is for saying it? I reckon i hear that said at least once per round. Have never heard of anyone being picked up on it either.

Same as for giving any advice, the giver is penalized (2 shots or loss of hole I think) the receiver is not unless they asked for it.
I hear it many times per round but if you think about it in this example you can see its wrong.
Putt on 18th green to win the Captains and your partner says "take your time on that one" its clearly advice to help out the putter so...

GreeBo

Mono25 wrote: »

in relation to the flag holding one i cant see why there is a penalty. what possible advantage is someone getting by doing that.

i know there are some ridiculously harsh rules but MOSTLY there is some sort of advantage even miniscule gained.

Some rules are baffling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are allowed to putt whilst holding the flag, however only if the flag is out of the hole it appears.

17-1/5 wrote:

Yes, provided the flagstick has been removed from the hole and the ball therefore does not strike it. If the ball were to strike the flagstick, a breach of Rule 17-3a would occur.

mr.mickels

I recall watching a 3-ball scramble on the club many years back, when I used play, and it wasn't uncommon for a group to have 1 ball on one side of the green and 1 on the other, they would choose 1 and hit 3 shots, but if they didn't like the result they would then go to the other ball and hit 3 more and pick the best one!!! Another common one was first fella would putt and miss, then tap in and tell the other 2 they can now have a go for it!!!!!

cackhanded

mr.mickels wrote: »

Another common one was first fella would putt and miss, then tap in and tell the other 2 they can now have a go for it!!!!!

Nothing wrong with that, it's part of the strategy for scrambles and fourballs.

My biggest bugbear is fellas trampling/flattening the grass behind their ball when in the rough, it's the simplest rule to remember - play the ball as it lies!

Corkblowin

cackhanded wrote: »

Nothing wrong with that, it's part of the strategy for scrambles and four balls!

Afraid not - in a four ball that's fine but in a scramble if you tap in you've completed the hole & your score counts ie your partners need not bother putting. No wonder some of the scramble scores are crazy!

Biggest problem is definitely dropping the ball - I'm sick of explaining that it's the nearest point of relief not the nearest point thats most favourable to you!!!! Grrrrrr!

And as for water hazards - I've been threatened with violence by people when I point out that the dropping point is relative to where it crossed the line of the hazard - lost count of how many times I've seen people walk a few hundred yards along a water hazard to drop in line with where it splashed! Particularly prevalent when theres a chance in may have carried.

Should definitely be a yearly rules night in every club - everybody can do with refreshers - no matter how well we think we know them.

billy3sheets

cackhanded wrote: »

My biggest bugbear is fellas trampling/flattening the grass behind their ball when in the rough, it's the simplest rule to remember - play the ball as it lies!

So if my ball is lying in the semi-rough & I lay my wood behind it flattening the grass a bit in the process, am I improving my lie? If so, does this not effectively stop me from gorunding my club behind the ball at all?

nocal

There is everything wrong with that for scrambles. If the first player strikes the ball again then that is the teams next shot.


Damn - beaten to it!!!

mr.mickels

cackhanded wrote: »

Nothing wrong with that, it's part of the strategy for scrambles and fourballs.

Obviously you should never be permitted to enter scrambles unless you first learn the rules of golf, if you have done that then your team should have been disqualified every time. If the first guy taps in the hole is over and his score stands, even if the other 2 sink their putt, the first ball to hole out is the score to put on the card.

cackhanded

Oops, my bad, been about 10 years since I played in a scramble.

billy3sheets wrote: »

So if my ball is lying in the semi-rough & I lay my wood behind it flattening the grass a bit in the process, am I improving my lie? If so, does this not effectively stop me from gorunding my club behind the ball at all?

You can lightly ground your club behind your ball in the rough but you can't improve your lie.
Rule 13-2: A player must not improve or allow to to be improved the position or lie of his ball by pressing a club on the ground

airguitar

chalkie 501 wrote: »

standing behind someone putting to see the line(unless they are a 4balletc partner)is a commenly broken rule......also i was once told something regarding fixing pitchmarks off the green,cant remember what it was exactly...im sure someone will remind me??

no one, including a playing partner(s) in 4ball, scramble etc may be positioned on or close to the line or an extension of the line beyond the hole while the stroke is being made

ernieprice

Have a look at these links re dropping a ball
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2gPHxdg7oQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uByDf9wq-w
http://www.ehow.co.uk/video_2356424_official-golf-rules_-water-hazards.html

Garda S Horgan

The one that bugs me the most, and which I think is a main reason of why high handicap or cheeky lads with 43+ points is the hazards rules. The biggest one being the red hazard.
Firstly, you need to be sure that you're in the hazard, otherwise you play 3 off the tee.
The amount of times I see a ball going towards a small stream on my home course but it hits a tree and the lads say "We'll call that in the hazard".
There is OOB 10 foot away and you need to see the ball going into the hazard to be sure.
These guys think that if a ball was going somwehere near the hazard that it's ok to call it.
The fact that they are up there looking for their ball 50 feet past the hazard hoping they might find it means nothing to them. If they really were sure it was in the hazard then why look for the ball at all?

If I see lads looking for balls after they declare they are sure it's in the hazard then I will say it.

Thats the rule I see broken the most and which I believe takes man shots off peoples scores.

Yours etc,
GSH.

IITYWYBMAD

Mono25 wrote: »

what about tapping in a putt say from on the lip of the cup one handed while holding the flag in the other.

was told in a competition that this is breaking the rules

That's actually fine. No penalty, as long as the flag you are holding is not touching the green. i.e. if you hold the flag with your left hand and putt with your right hand, there is no penalty, as long as the flag is not touching the ground as you hold it.

GreeBo

airguitar wrote: »

no one, including a playing partner(s) in 4ball, scramble etc may be positioned on or close to the line or an extension of the line beyond the hole while the stroke is being made

Though you can "run" over afterwards to watch the balls progress. (at least the rule does not indicate that you cannot)

Garda S Horgan

Lads taking leaves out of the bunkers in winter is shocking. Stones are ok, otherwise you can't tough anything in the hazard.
If your ball is sitting next to a branch of a tree that is in the hazard then you can't move it.

Also, as mentioned before, dropping to the nearest point of relief from GUR and if the bunker is GUR then drop to the nearest point, not the nearest point so that you have a clear line to the hole and the bunker is not in your way. I think the only issue with dropping from GUR is if a tree in GUR is overhanging and the tree will impede the swing even after dropping it outside of the GUR.

Yours etc,
GSH.