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Orwell/IRC/Lucan/Tiernans/UCD Leauge, Race 1, Black Bull, 27 February 2011

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    #92
    doozerie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,830 ✭✭✭doozerie


    @kenmc, Were you on a Planet-X with green bar tape? If so you seemed to be going strong. I was on a black Canyon, black bar tape, black tyres, black tights, black helmet, but blue jacket and gloves - on reflection I probably looked like a bruise!

    ...oh, and red overshoes. So a bleeding bruise then.


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    #93
    kenmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,276 ✭✭✭kenmc


    yeah that was me, green trim, it's my fav colour :)
    Yeah was going strong enough, but spent too long up front, was too willing to work when others weren't. I think you and I were swapping places up front a fair bit, and you were out front for a lot of the headwind. Thought I was within my limits but clearly not. Ah well. Will try again after a few more weeks of training. As I said, my first race, so a learning curve. Watch out next year though :D


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    #94
    DirkVoodoo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,504 ✭✭✭✭DirkVoodoo


    doozerie wrote: »
    @kenmc, Were you on a Planet-X with green bar tape? If so you seemed to be going strong. I was on a black Canyon, black bar tape, black tyres, black tights, black helmet, but blue jacket and gloves - on reflection I probably looked like a bruise!

    ...oh, and red overshoes. So a bleeding bruise then.

    Doozerie, were you riding the pantani bianchi over the winter?


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    #95
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    Jaesus you're a friendly club....
    Riding together all winter and no-one seems to know anyone elses name ;)

    From the pics I've seen it was a great turnout for the first race of the season.
    Well done to all involved.


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    #96
    DirkVoodoo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,504 ✭✭✭✭DirkVoodoo


    RobFowl wrote: »
    Jaesus you're a friendly club....
    Riding together all winter and no-one seems to know anyone elses name ;)

    From the pics I've seen it was a great turnout for the first race of the season.
    Well done to all involved.

    Just all the boards links! I'm pretty sure I met 100Suns at the race yesterday but there is always that risk of calling someone by their moniker and it being the wrong person, in which case you end up looking like a weirdo!


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    #97
    tawfeeredux
    Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭tawfeeredux


    levitronix wrote: »
    I told people to stop working after that because it got a bit annoying wasting your legs for nothing, i was riding the black canyon from orwell

    It being my first league race, I naively thought if we worked a bit harder we could stay away from the groups behind. In hindsight, i see what you mean about wasting the legs. We were always going to get caught, so it probably was wiser to try & save some more for when the pace picked up. Maybe us newbies should listen to the more experienced heads more often.


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    #98
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,035 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    tawfeeredux wrote: »
    It being my first league race, I naively thought if we worked a bit harder we could stay away from the groups behind. In hindsight, i see what you mean about wasting the legs. We were always going to get caught, so it probably was wiser to try & save some more for when the pace picked up.

    The slower groups do not always get caught. IMO you want to be working but not killing yourself. It's only 45km, there's no point soft pedalling for half of it then just clinging on to the back of the bunch to the finish. It's a race, it's supposed to be hard!

    If other people are not working just drop them, but equally there's no point in going off on some mad solo dash if you haven't the legs for it.

    In semi-limit there were a few strong riders stringing it out and lots sitting it. There's not really much point in that - better to get the movement working with a small group and then gradually ramp up the pace until people complain. You can't expect to keep a group of forty-odd riders of mixed ability and experience in a tight paceline.


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    #99
    tawfeeredux
    Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭tawfeeredux


    Lumen wrote: »
    In semi-limit there were a few strong riders stringing it out and lots sitting it. There's not really much point in that - better to get the movement working with a small group and then gradually ramp up the pace until people complain. You can't expect to keep a group of forty-odd riders of mixed ability and experience in a tight paceline.

    There was a small enough group doing most of the work, but the problem was the uneven pace that some guys, including myself, were coming through at. As you say, a steady increase in pace as the race worn on would have made more sense. Even if we were still caught by semi-scratch & scratch, it probably would have made it easier to adapt to the pace of the faster group.


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    #100
    100Suns
    Registered Users Posts: 415 ✭✭100Suns


    DirkVoodoo wrote: »
    Just all the boards links! I'm pretty sure I met 100Suns at the race yesterday but there is always that risk of calling someone by their moniker and it being the wrong person, in which case you end up looking like a weirdo!

    You did indeed-great start for both of us puncturing on the first lap of the first race of the season. Scratch was savage from the off-the small group gave little respite on the up and overs. When the rain started on the way into Batterstown it was like riding into a car wash every time you hit the front. The pace line was going up the sheltered side against the wind which robbed on the recovery going back down.

    I sat back in on the second lap not wanting to interfere with the race and was impressed by LCRC BAX doing a Cancellara stringing it out on the front for a lap or so and niceonetom riding strong and holding his position near the front. Great finish for the Lucan sprinters. Roll on April.


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    #101
    doozerie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,830 ✭✭✭doozerie


    DirkVoodoo wrote:
    Doozerie, were you riding the pantani bianchi over the winter?

    Yes. I now realise I should have brought the rear mudguard from that bike with me and handed them to the person in front of me each time I ended up on someone's wheel!


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    #102
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    DirkVoodoo wrote: »
    Just all the boards links! I'm pretty sure I met 100Suns at the race yesterday but there is always that risk of calling someone by their moniker and it being the wrong person, in which case you end up looking like a weirdo!

    I know what you mean. More than half my club seem to think my real name is actually Rob.
    It's ok for you as you really are Dirk but trust me its a pain ;)


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    #103
    Idleater
    Registered Users Posts: 6,236 ✭✭✭Idleater


    tawfeeredux wrote: »
    It being my first league race, I naively thought if we worked a bit harder we could stay away from the groups behind. In hindsight, i see what you mean about wasting the legs. We were always going to get caught, so it probably was wiser to try & save some more for when the pace picked up. Maybe us newbies should listen to the more experienced heads more often.

    A few thoughts on my first race too (semi-limit, LCRC).
    First off, I really enjoyed it and a big thanks to the organisers who in my view made everything run smoothly, considering the numbers. Secondly, I agree with the above, a lot of the advice that was given both here and in the club proved to be correct. My main goal was to relax and see how it goes, and then apply the snippets of advice as they came up.

    Recognising them better though is my goal for the next race. I was very pleased with my efforts when I was towards the front of the group, however I found myself on occasion going backwards whilst being a combination of sort of boxed in and sort of unwilling to make a move out and around.

    However, I did manage to make a break when the scratch/semi-scratch group came by and I tagged onto the back of that group for a decent bit before the pace got the better of me. I then struggled to bridge the gap on the start finish straight with the head/cross wind and that left the legs a bit sore - lesson learned. I ended up working with an Orwell rider on a white Colnago CX1(?) for most of the second lap to finish my first race :)

    In summary, it was a great experience, and I hope to build on it over the season. Next job: get used to the new race bike as I suffered quite a bit with bike envy at the start line - lots of people with lovely lovely bikes.


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    #104
    doozerie
    Registered Users Posts: 4,830 ✭✭✭doozerie


    Lumen wrote:
    The slower groups do not always get caught. IMO you want to be working but not killing yourself. It's only 45km, there's no point soft pedalling for half of it then just clinging on to the back of the bunch to the finish. It's a race, it's supposed to be hard!

    I agree. I pushed myself hard in the Limit group, partly in the vain hope that we might stay away, but mainly because having gone to the effort of getting to the race I wanted to come away feeling as if I had actually raced rather than sat in all the time. If I wanted the latter I might as well have started as far back as the Semi-Scratch group and just sat at the back from the very start refusing to do any work - I reckon that would have been easier than taking turns at the front of a slower group.

    I had a couple of people tell me that I pushed too hard in Limit, that it would have been preferable to take it easy until we were caught. The implication seems to be that those of us in Limit might then have been able to possibly place in the final sprint finish. Personally I think that is blindly optimistic - certainly I know that even if I had had a fresh pair of legs for that final kilometre there was no way that I was going to be in contention for a placing, so I have no regrets about burying myself every chance that I got.

    Besides, it was far safer out there in the smaller Limit group than it was in the huge group that enveloped us. There were a few occasions in the larger group where a large number of riders in front of me slowed down for no reason that I could see, and it slowed so suddenly that I thought I was going to end up in a heap with a pile of others. The group was a chaotic mass of people overtaking entirely on the wrong side of the road, as mentioned earlier, and also people shoving past on the inside and forcing those in their way to make a choice as to whether they were going to resist the rider on their inside or shove into the rider on their outside, either of which had a high risk of causing a crash. I was happier, if "happy" is the right term for it, busting a gut into a headwind at the front of Limit.


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    #105
    niceonetom
    Registered Users Posts: 4,833 ✭✭✭niceonetom


    I had thought (and said as much) that it was a day when the limit or semi-limit might hold out. It would require all of the strong riders in the group to work hard and equitably though and with the wind on the day I'm not sure that would have worked anyway. I think the difference in horsepower between the groups is really magnified once they're sent off into a decent headwind, and a lot of the handicap evaporated on the Trim road before we even got onto the loop proper and while we were going straight onto the teeth of the wind.

    I can understand how difficult it would be getting the L and SL to work well together - enough variation in ability and new riders to make any chain break down - but I was surprised at how poor the SS were at getting the line going. I went to the race with no real aspirations so I wasn't shirking my share at the front but it kept singling out. Once that became the pattern it was hard to change as no one want to get stuck on the front with no one coming through. We kept restarting it and it kept breaking down.

    From what I heard at the finish, Scratch worked well together.

    The groups came together a lot earlier that I'd expected and the usual messiness ensued. It got stretched out once we were back on the tailwind section though and when we turned on to the finish road I started taking notes (hard to do, but absolutely necessary - I've been surprised by the finish line before). The finsih was a good long way after the roundabout, at the top of a drag that would be sapping at speed and brutally exposed to an almost perpendicular wind. At this stage I had no idea whether it would be possible to be anywhere near the front on the last lap but if I was I'd have a plan. That's unusual for me.

    The one faller of the day fell on me. He went over my back wheel on his trajectory towards the righthand kerb, and scared the snot out of me as he went down with a fair clatter, but I couldn't exactly look around for fear of making it worse. At the finsih I was told the rider was "fine" and the grapevine says the only serious injury was to his pride so that's good.

    Anyway, on the on the run up to the final roundabout I was doing my best to defend my position and move up here and there. I saw aidan.offbeat a couple of others (one of whom must be tawfeeredux) dangling off the front but there's not much of Aidan to hide behind so that may have explained the reluctance to jump across. Besides, I think most of us know they'd be eaten up once they turned from tail to cross wind.

    The final kilometre was attritional which is how I like things - I can't jump off the front of a group at all but if the pace ramps up steadily I can sometimes hang on longer than others, and that's how it went. With the wind coming hard from the left I found the biggest Lucan rider I could and tried to get my left shifter under his saddle - anyone on the left hand side of the road was going to fade so I just kept to the right and hoped for the best. The_Crunch lit the blue touch paper for what I'm sure he hoped would be a mighty explosion of power but after some fizzing and popping went backwards. On the drag a trio of lucan riders went and a scratch rider from my own club went too. No more hiding or tactics - arse up and head down, I gave it whatever was left, just enough to get past the other Orwell rider. I was fifth on the line and am very pleased with that. I didn't have the legs to do any better, and I've never been able to say that after any other race.

    The bad news is that I'm now bumped to scratch and there's no points for the pre-season race. Gah! FFS!

    I had a good day, and I'm looking forward to the Thursday evenings getting going again.

    Well done to all the new riders too, all of whom did well and, from the sounds of it, learned a lot.


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    #106
    100Suns
    Registered Users Posts: 415 ✭✭100Suns


    niceonetom wrote: »
    The bad news is that I'm now bumped to scratch

    Welcome to Hell ;)


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    #107
    LCRC_BAX
    Registered Users Posts: 293 ✭✭LCRC_BAX


    I sat back in on the second lap not wanting to interfere with the race and was impressed by LCRC BAX doing a Cancellara stringing it out on the front for a lap or so and niceonetom riding strong and holding his position near the front. Great finish for the Lucan sprinters. Roll on April.[/QUOTE]

    Flattered 100suns! More of a kamikazie job but was feeling good and wanted to test the legs, kudos to SB too he worked very hard. Final 100 yds to the line was painful, tried to go off the front but at 30mph into that head/cross wind it was wishful thinking! SS need to get the act together for April, with a group that big & strong we should be putting time into the Scratchers!!


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    #108
    100Suns
    Registered Users Posts: 415 ✭✭100Suns


    Flattered 100suns! More of a kamikazie job but was feeling good and wanted to test the legs, kudos to SB too he worked very hard. Final 100 yds to the line was painful, tried to go off the front but at 30mph into that head/cross wind it was wishful thinking! SS need to get the act together for April, with a group that big & strong we should be putting time riders into the Scratchers!![/QUOTE]

    Fixed your quote there. :D


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    #109
    gav07
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭gav07


    doozerie wrote: »
    I agree. I pushed myself hard in the Limit group, partly in the vain hope that we might stay away, but mainly because having gone to the effort of getting to the race I wanted to come away feeling as if I had actually raced rather than sat in all the time. If I wanted the latter I might as well have started as far back as the Semi-Scratch group and just sat at the back from the very start refusing to do any work - I reckon that would have been easier than taking turns at the front of a slower group.

    I was another of that 7-man Limit group (Orwell, yellow sleeves, blue helmet) trying to keep away with you and kenmc. Really enjoyed my first race and agree with you that just spinning along waiting to be caught is not what I'm there for.

    Far less energy was spent having been caught by the chasing groups than trying to keep that small group going, especially with the wind. Happy then that I managed to get towards the front near the end and finish in behind the front group of finishers - although I got the feeling a good few riders eased up a fair bit towards the end - waiting for when there are points from April onwards? I've alot to do to get that final kick going on a finishing straight though, especially uphill on a blustery day.

    It's hard to imagine how Limit could stay away until the end unless there was a much bigger bunch of strong(er) riders working really well from the off.

    Thanks to the organisers for the enjoyable debut and can't wait for the next one ...

    P.S. Someone mentioned there were photos. Where?


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    #110
    levitronix
    Registered Users Posts: 1,824 ✭✭✭levitronix


    Limit can stay away ! Last year i was in a 6 man break in limit thats stayed away


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    #111
    barrabus
    Registered Users Posts: 562 ✭✭✭barrabus


    P.S. Someone mentioned there were photos. Where?[/QUOTE]

    Not sure if linky will work..
    http://www.facebook.com/album.php?id=1157147603&aid=2108278


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    #112
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,065 ✭✭✭buffalo


    barrabus wrote: »
    Not sure if linky will work..
    http://www.facebook.com/album.php?id=1157147603&aid=2108278

    Dear oh dear. My glorious debut, and the one photo in which I'm clearly identifiable shows me as last across the line. Must try harder.


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    #113
    petethedrummer
    Registered Users Posts: 7,604 ✭✭✭petethedrummer


    I hope the guy with the rack on his bike won.


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    #114
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    petethedrummer wrote: »
    I hope the guy with the rack on his bike won.

    Bike rack guy is Stephen Surdival, an A1 rider who's riden the Rás several times. He was rocking a Powertap wheel, along with a rack and mudguards.


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    #115
    goldencleric
    Registered Users Posts: 405 ✭✭goldencleric


    Not sure if linky will work..
    http://www.facebook.com/album.php?id=1157147603&aid=2108278


    Get em up on flickr for all to see :)


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    #116
    petethedrummer
    Registered Users Posts: 7,604 ✭✭✭petethedrummer


    el tonto wrote: »
    Bike rack guy is Stephen Surdival, an A1 rider who's riden the Rás several times. He was rocking a Powertap wheel, along with a rack and mudguards.
    Hero.


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    #117
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,035 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    petethedrummer wrote: »
    Hero.

    Calm down Pete, he didn't have a pie plate.


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    #118
    barrabus
    Registered Users Posts: 562 ✭✭✭barrabus


    goldencleric wrote: »
    Get em up on flickr for all to see :)

    Not my photos. If you have a FB account you have access.


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    #119
    Idleater
    Registered Users Posts: 6,236 ✭✭✭Idleater


    barrabus wrote: »
    If you have a FB account you have access...
    ...and are a friend or friend of a friend of whomever owns that profile I guess. I get invalid link.


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    #120
    mc2000
    Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭mc2000


    I did a lead car for this one, in front of semi-scratch - from the comfort of my car :rolleyes: it looked a hard race from the start - real nice headwind and nice bit of freezing rain to dampen the ardour. Semi-scratch were certainly moving, I got the car out of the way on the first lap just before the turn back onto the Trim road, where they were just about to catch Semi-Lim

    After that I tailed the race a bit and I saw the faller, and a couple of us in cars were chatting to him after he picked himself up, and he cycled on, I just stayed behind him up till the last roundabout and he went on home and seemed ok.

    I did one of the placings at the finish as well - that bunch was fairly blown apart by the time it got back round to the finish - anyone who hung onto that was going very well, and you should be awarded promotion to semi-scratch [at least] if you were able to hang onto that :D


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    #121
    goldencleric
    Registered Users Posts: 405 ✭✭goldencleric


    Idleater wrote: »
    ...and are a friend or friend of a friend of whomever owns that profile I guess. I get invalid link.

    Yep same here - ah well


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