RTÉNL Coverage Checker

The Cush

Coverage Checker pages are now up as posted yesterday - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=70794620#post70794620 but the links haven't been properly setup yet.

This page http://www.rtenl.ie/coverage-checker.html doesn't have a link from the the RTÉNL website yet. The coverage checker button at the bottom of the page links to http://coverage.rtenl.com/cgi-sys/defaultwebpage.cgi and not to this correct page http://coverage.rtenl.ie/ (google map).

RTÉNL Coverage Checker

---

Coverage

• Coverage shown is based on a rooftop aerial in good condition (indoor reception may be possible in areas with very good signal strength).
• Coverage shown is indicative only.
• Local environment (hills, forestry, trees, buildings, and other large obstructions) will cause coverage to vary from what is shown.
• RTÉNL recommends consultation with a local competent aerial installer to confirm coverage in your area.

Transmission Sites

• All transmission sites that will carry Saorview are shown.
• Transmission sites will be powered up on a phased basis between now and the end of 2012. Sites currently in operation are shown in green and sites in development are shown in blue.
• If your location is shown as covered by one of the ‘live’ (Green) transmission sites but your aerial is pointed towards one of the “planned” (Blue) transmission sites shown on the map, you can redirect your aerial towards the (Green) transmission site or wait until your current (Blue) transmission site is powered up. In all other situations follow the instructions.
• Digital transmissions technology is different from traditional analogue technology and will be operating in the UHF frequency band only. Traditional analogue will continue to be broadcast in both the VHF and UHF frequency bands until late 2012. The RTÉNL transmission network was re-engineered to maximise the population coverage made possible with this new technology. Most of the large transmission sites will remain in use and a number of new transmission sites are being built. A number of small transmission sites that are currently in use for analogue television will cease operation when analogue switched off in late 2012.
• RTÉNL recommends consultation with a local competent aerial installer to confirm coverage in your area.

Working At Height – Adjusting / Fitting Aerials & Accessories

• Working at height (ladders, trestles, roofs, etc.) is dangerous and RTÉNL recommends that only people qualified to do so should work at heights. For further information and guidance contact the Health and Safety Authority. http://www.hsa.ie/eng/Topics/Work_at_Height.

Check www.saorview.ie for up to date information.

Please read the important messages above before clicking here to check coverage at your location:

CHECK FOR COVERAGE

watty

If you want to click on a Map, don't want to enable Javascript and don't want to feed Google more data (The RTE checker uses Google), then I have the RTE new Brochure coverage maps linked and chopped.

Just click
http://maps.techtir.com/ireland-dtt.htm

If you are on wrong map, just click anywhere near the edge where "hand" pointer appears. Click on Techtir Ireland Map Badge to go back to full map.

We tested the RTE site and ours on Nokia 5800 phone also. On phone the "on map" direction line didn't appear, but panel showed compass bearing.

The RTE one is nicely done with the simple "type in your address" interface. Great to see this launched. Maybe they could add DAB and FM Radio versions?

lucernarian

The extra resolution that the google maps coverage map gives is useful. The blocks look to be about 100 metres wide, better than staring at the RTENL PDFs or indeed the updated coverage maps that Watty kindly uploaded.

I noticed an interesting quirk of the computer prediction. It seems to estimate coverage somewhat conservatively when terrain is taken into account. The square representing much of where I'm from and the family home are served by Three Rock. The block immediately to the east suggests Mount Leinster! The land there rises sharply to the southeast but not to the south. Having said that my tests would suggest a signal from a nearer TX with more nearby terrain in the way is better than a distant TX with better topography which could have more trees or buildings in the way.

Also, I can't help but think that RTE seem to be optimistic with the current Mt. Leinster ERP. I've always had difficulties picking up Mt. Leinster since they stopped broadcasting on 4 channels. It used to come in on top of Kilkeel reception despite having an aerial aligned towards the NI relay. Cairn Hill DTT is received no problem in a couple of spots that RTE have marked as "No reception". And there would be good LOS at these low-lying places too so it's not some local topography fluke.

watty

I can receive UHF services in Limerick from Mount Leinster 6km west of Limerick City (clear path).

Topology at UHF is really more important than distance. Even on VHF, a 5W handheld radio can be used to talk to ISS when it's passing overhead.

The Satellites are over 36,000 km away. Some Microwave Broadband systems using about same power typically have 10km to 15km terrestrial range, max 30km, due to topography.

At VHF band I you could use 5 or 6 transmitters to cover the entire country with DRM or DRM+ (newer alternative to DAB designed for LW to VHF).

Look here http://maps.techtir.com/dtt-donegal.htm

NINE UHF transmitters, yet Donegal coverage is terrible.

You can google and download free "Radio Mobile" planner and learn how to work it. You'll find that some loacations do throw up unexpected results. There is the issue of Diffraction on nearby hills too. "Fresnel Zones" or Clearance.

The Google Maps thing no doubt uses imported polygons of coverage from the exact same radio planning tool as produced the printed maps I uploaded. The two systems are using identical data.

I don't know which coverage tool RTE is using and they probably have access to accurate OSI terrain data. So their results are likely much more accurate than "Radio Mobile" plus free SRTM terrain data. Over the years I have found current Computer Coverage prediction to be as accurate as the source Information:

• Mast location, height, Aerial Type and Power
• Frequency
• Terrain data
• Desired Signal Level for reliable operation.

I can do much better nicer maps than the chopped up brochure (which is slightly fuzzy on the page, limiting what can be achieved even with my professional scanner, I actually got the individual Printer's dots!). But I don't have accurate enough transmitter information. People asked me to do it, but I held off as I knew RTE was going to release Coverage Information. Either system is more than good enough.

If I ever have time and get the information needed I might do maps with seven contour colours:

1. Indoor aerial and window doesn't face TX (almost no coverage!) (darkest green)
2. Indoor aerial and window face TX site (dark green)
3. 10dBd Attic Aerial (green)
4. 8dBd Chimney Aerial on Bungalow (pale green)
5. 8dBd Chimney Aerial on two story house. (grassy green)
6. 14dBd Chimney Aerial on two story house. (Yellow)
7. Quad Yagi Array using 4 x 14dBd = 20dBd approx on 15m/48' approx above ground level. (Orange)

The Cush

Since this morning's post above the http://coverage.rtenl.ie/ page is now displaying similar text to http://www.rtenl.ie/coverage-checker.html. The coverage checker button at the bottom of the page now links to the google map coverage checker at http://coverage.rtenl.ie/index.php.

The only change to the text that I can see is a little added colour to this paragraph

• If your location is shown as covered by one of the ‘live’ (Green) transmission sites but your aerial is pointed towards one of the “planned” (Blue) transmission sites shown on the map, you can redirect your aerial towards the (Green) transmission site or wait until your current (Blue) transmission site is powered up. In all other situations follow the instructions.

sesswhat

The search also works for addresses in NI, although with unpredictable results.

It can find addresses like:

Mourne Avenue, Strabane
Cranmore Park Belfast

but for many areas you have to add 'UK':

Fairhill Road, Cookstown, UK

Using NI postcodes is very hit and miss, often ending up in some part of the world with an Irish related name. I assume the code automatically adds 'Ireland' to the search Term:

BT82 8AA gives you Strabane

BT82 0AT , UK gives you Ireland Street, Carnoustie, Scotland
BT82 0AT gives you Ireland Lane, Pasadena, Texas (Needless to say, Saorview coverage is a challenge in your area.)

watty

Obviously using pure Google maps to return the map. Hence my privacy concern.

channelsurfer2

ok when i try this i get 2 different results. when i just type in tullamore it directs me to kippure and when I type in my actual adress in tullamore it directs me to Maghera......but my aerial is actually pointed at cairn hill and received it lound and clear??

watty

Look http://maps.techtir.com/dtt.midlands.htm (RTE's coverage map, the Google tool most likely uses same information source)

I can see some spots that will EQUALLY get Mt. Leinster, Kippure, Cairn Hill, Maghera and Killduff!

About 1/2 way across and 1/3rd down.

ALL the red, apart from stuff near Woodcock Hill, on that map is Cairn Hill Signal.

The Cush

@watty
At the ISAA presentation did RTÉ have individual coverage maps for each transmitter.

watty

No. Just the two maps I uploaded in Brochure and the Google Gadget.

I think unlikely they will release anything else. What we got yesterday is more than we ever had, ever, I think.

byrnefm

Oh no... Letterkenny will be on ch53, which I'm sure is going to going to interfere with ch 53 from Limavady... knocking out Fiver, Five USA, Quest... for a year until the channel ordering in the North changes...

sesswhat

byrnefm wrote: »

Oh no... Letterkenny will be on ch53, which I'm sure is going to going to interfere with ch 53 from Limavady... knocking out Fiver, Five USA, Quest... for a year until the channel ordering in the North changes...

If you continue to use Holywell Hill for Saorview, you may be able to avoid problems unless you are very close to Letterkenny (which is vertically polarized), or if Letterkenny is in line with Limavady.

If you are using an unshielded masthead amp for Limavady, this could also pick up interference from Letterkenny.

Dubluc

I used the RTENL coverage checker to check coverage for my parents address for DTT and it suggests pointing an aerial at Kilduff transmitter.

However it states that this transmitter is not on til mid 2011. Techtir website seems to suggest it is already turned on. Forgive me asking what might sound like a stupid question but can anyone say if it's turned on.

Also their current aerial setup for analogue seems to be pointed at Mt. Leinster and the Digital TV won't pick up DTT from there but has good analogue reception on TV3 and TG4.

If either pointing at Kilduff or Mt. Leinster for DTT do they need to get a new UHF aerial or will the one they have do? It's one of the small yokes about 36" long with a square yoke at one end. I know what some people have explained about different band aerials. I don't know what band the current one is cos i cant make out the band colout from the ground looking at the chimney setup.

Thanks for any help.

watty

I'd go by RTE and not Techtir!

Dubluc

Sorry watty, I just realised from reading my post it may not have been clear that they curretly get nothing from Mt. Leinster. I haven't pointed an aerial at Kilduff yet cos I wasn't sure if a new aerial was needed. They can see the Kilduff transmitter though. Thanks again.

The Cush

Dubluc wrote: »

Sorry watty, I just realised from reading my post it may not have been clear that they curretly get nothing from Mt. Leinster. I haven't pointed an aerial at Kilduff yet cos I wasn't sure if a new aerial was needed. They can see the Kilduff transmitter though. Thanks again.

Mt Leinster down for maintenance yesterday and today

gman2k wrote: »

As of 11am this morning - info directly from RTE NL;

'We had Mt. Leinster DTT turned off for planned maintenance yesterday, and it may be off again today'

Dubluc

The Cush wrote: »

Mt Leinster down for maintenance yesterday and today

Thanks for the help but they have never got DTT reception. The TV is a Samsung LE32B450c and I've emailed samsung and they tell me it's capable of receiving DTT and told me it might be to do with the aerials. Hence the questions!

Thanks again.

The Cush

Dubluc wrote: »

Thanks for the help but they have never got DTT reception. The TV is a Samsung LE32B450c and I've emailed samsung and they tell me it's capable of receiving DTT and told me it might be to do with the aerials. Hence the questions!

Thanks again.

Kilduff should be live within months - DTT frequency Ch.52 H. Mt Leinster - DTT frequency Ch. 45 H.

The same Group B aerial (Ch. 35 - 53) and aerial polarisation H (horizontal) will do for Saorview DTT from both transmitters.

Analogue TV from Mt Leinster is currently both VHF & UHF (Ch 23 & 26 H, Group A aerial). If their aerial is Group A this may be the reason they are not receiving Group B DTT from Mt Leinster.

Dubluc

The Cush wrote: »

Kilduff should be live within months - DTT frequency Ch.52 H. Mt Leinster - DTT frequency Ch. 45 H.

The same Group B aerial (Ch. 35 - 53) and aerial polarisation H (horizontal) will do for Saorview DTT from both transmitters.

Analogue TV from Mt Leinster is currently both VHF & UHF (Ch 23 & 26 H, Group A aerial). If their aerial is Group A this may be the reason they are not receiving Group B DTT from Mt Leinster.

I'd say that'd explain it alright. Just my luck we'd have to change aerial when everyone on here seems to not have to!

Thanks again.

The Cush

Dubluc wrote: »

Just my luck we'd have to change aerial when everyone on here seems to not have to!

Its not just you.

Some will also require a new aerial or aerial realignment either because DTT transmitters frequencies will move out of band or new relays will come online and analogue sites go offline.

Other will be moving from pay TV services having never had an aerial before and some will have to replace their aerials with a Saorsat satellite dish.

lucernarian

Dubluc wrote: »

I'd say that'd explain it alright. Just my luck we'd have to change aerial when everyone on here seems to not have to!

Thanks again.

If Kilduff can be seen from your parents' house then I'd suggest it's possible to receive it despite on an incorrectly-grouped aerial. It may be worth a try to simply turn it around and make sure the cable's okay. Though a standard contract aerial can be had for <€20 if you go to electrical wholesalers or the internet.

excollier

Wow, if the coverage map is to be believed, the Donegal will be pretty well covered.:D
Seems almost all the existing transmitters will be used, nine in total for one county.
I can see a few missing but that is pretty good coverage.
Saorsat will be scarcely needed here, going by this info.

watty

The white bits will need Saorsat.

Or are you being sarcastic?
http://maps.techtir.com/dtt-donegal.htm

Tullamore, near the home of a well known retiring politician has a choice of FIVE transmitters
http://maps.techtir.com/dtt-midlands.htm

lucernarian

watty wrote: »

The white bits will need Saorsat.

Or are you being sarcastic?
http://maps.techtir.com/dtt-donegal.htm

Tullamore, near the home of a well known retiring politician has a choice of FIVE transmitters
http://maps.techtir.com/dtt-midlands.htm

Watty, there's no way that Kilduff can be easily received in Tullamore. To the north of it, maybe. Woodcock Hill doesn't have a chance. Tullamore is rather distantly served by either Maghera, Kippure or Cairn Hill. Mt. Leinster with difficulty. The strongest reception would generally be from Cairn Hill. Three transmitters, none of which are less than 50 km away.

sesswhat

RE Donegal

In terms of population, I'd say the coverage is better than I expected.

However there are a lot of people in the glens in the centre of the county, from Glenfin to Glenties, as well as the Doochary, Churchill, Dunlewy and Glen Village areas, who may have problems.

Many of the smaller white areas are more isolated with low population density, but there are pockets like Kilcar and Carrick which will also be affected.

I have a feeling there will be quite a few Saorsat installations heading this way even if most people concerned don't even know what it is yet.

Rick_

Hmm, Monaghan is closer to where I am but Clermont is more powerful so that's where I am receiving Saorview at the moment. After DSO, what are the planned power wattages? If Monaghan turns out to be just as powerful or close enough to Clermont, I may see about getting the aerial moved as surely a closer transmitter and almost equal power wattage would mean I'd get a more stable signal from Monaghan over Clermont. I'm at the top of a hill and have lovely views around oe of things lower so topography doesn't appear to be an issue!

lucernarian

Paddy C wrote: »

Hmm, Monaghan is closer to where I am but Clermont is more powerful so that's where I am receiving Saorview at the moment. After DSO, what are the planned power wattages? If Monaghan turns out to be just as powerful or close enough to Clermont, I may see about getting the aerial moved as surely a closer transmitter and almost equal power wattage would mean I'd get a more stable signal from Monaghan over Clermont. I'm at the top of a hill and have lovely views around oe of things lower so topography doesn't appear to be an issue!

Monaghan will broadcast at a much lower strength. Where does the RTENL coverage checker say your best source of reception is from?

excollier

watty wrote: »

The white bits will need Saorsat.

Or are you being sarcastic?
http://maps.techtir.com/dtt-donegal.htm

Tullamore, near the home of a well known retiring politician has a choice of FIVE transmitters
http://maps.techtir.com/dtt-midlands.htm

No I wasn't being sarcastic.
I was talking in terms of numbers.
I fixed an aerial for a man out in the wilds near Fintown last year.
He was having great trouble getting any RTE, he was trying to receive from Ballybofey.
I simply turned his aerial 180 deg, and immediately got perfect reception of Saorview for him, from Truskmore. The coverage map is white for his location, definitely not the blue of Truskmore.
He had recently bought two MPEG4 tvs, and he is using satellite for British tv.
There is a big line of hills blocking his view south, and he is in the lee of them as regards Truskmore broadcasts, and believe me, it is in the middle of nowhere.
So the DTT coverage may turn out to be better than you expect, or impossible in places you wouldn't expect.
I just don't think Saorsat numbers will be huge.

Quote from coverage site:

We're sorry. Saorview coverage is a challenge in your area. Please consult a local aerial installer for further information. It is not possible to reach all locations by terrestrial means and RTÉNL are in the process of developing a free-to-air satellite solution 'Saorsat' which will provide coverage to any blackspots.

watty

The official estimate I heard is 20K for Saorsat.
My estimate without fuel from Freesat HD PVR for Freesat and Saorsat was 20K

watty

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Watty, there's no way that Kilduff can be easily received in Tullamore. To the north of it, maybe. Woodcock Hill doesn't have a chance. Tullamore is rather distantly served by either Maghera, Kippure or Cairn Hill. Mt. Leinster with difficulty. The strongest reception would generally be from Cairn Hill. Three transmitters, none of which are less than 50 km away.

I got 3 easily on RTE's checker moving around just north of Tullamore. Woodcock hill is very very unlikely. Shielded by Arra Mountains and others nearer Woodcock.

Killduff, Maghera, Kippure, Cairn Hill and Mt Leinster was my five. Not actually in Tullamore, but just to north maybe. Mt Leinster only a few locations.

The 50km isn't important if terrain is suitable.

excollier

watty wrote: »

The official estimate I heard is 20K for Saorsat.
My estimate without fuel from Freesat HD PVR for Freesat and Saorsat was 20K

I was only talking with reference to Donegal

watty

I know. Easier to make a rough estimate for entire country. I don't have detailed enough statistics for County by County.

lawhec

Interesting. This probably explains why the RTE & TG4 Lite Multiplex is being planned for service at Brougher Mountain, as according to these coverage maps, large parts of Omagh and Enniskillen won't be adequately covered from cross-border transmitters.

Also I wonder what the field strength value is for the RTÉ produced maps coverage? If it is the same as previously produced maps for pay TV submissions at 61dbuv, then the coverage predicted could be regarded as conservative.

watty

AFAIK it assumes a 10dBd wideband yagi on Chimney/Roof height and sufficient margin for normal interference and typical bad weather.

I'm hoping to get more info later from RTE wearing my ISAA Technical Director hat.

So obviously if you have a pair of 14dBd 18 element Yagi on a 3.5m pole on chimney, you'll get more DX, depending on terrain.

You HAVE to be conservative doing radio planning to cope with buildings, trees and other terrain not in your model and have a decent margin for Interference, Bad Weather, Ageing coax, bits dropping off aerials etc.

The Cush

Saorview Coverage Checker link now added to the page.

Two new documents also added

- Connecting a Television Set to SAORVIEW - http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/connecting_a_television_set_to_saorview.pdf
- RTÉ NL SAORVIEW FAQ's - http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/rtenl_saorview_faqs_feb_2011_rev_1.pdf