Should labour stay out of government

Voipjunkie

Should Labour stay out of government. I see no difference between FineGael and Fianna Fail let them support the fine gael government as Martin has already offered.

Whatever government is elected is likely to be almost as unpopular as Fianna Fail is now so is Labour just likely to allow Fianna Fail to rebuild in opposition and come back in 5/10 years.

It looks like labour are unlikely to make the breakthrough they had hoped for so wouldn't they be better staying in opposition and show there is no difference between FF and FG and building for an election in 4/5 years. Put it up to FF to do what Martin offered and let them support a minority FG government.

analucija

It would be probably better for their vote count in the election after this one. But if they believe their program and their policies will serve people best, they should do everything to at least partly implement their policies. After all it is a lot easier to shout from opposition benches than make decisions and stand by them.

Auctionmcd

Voipjunkie wrote: »

Should Labour stay out of government. I see no difference between FineGael and Fianna Fail let them support the fine gael government as Martin has already offered.

Whatever government is elected is likely to be almost as unpopular as Fianna Fail is now so is Labour just likely to allow Fianna Fail to rebuild in opposition and come back in 5/10 years.

It looks like labour are unlikely to make the breakthrough they had hoped for so wouldn't they be better staying in opposition and show there is no difference between FF and FG and building for an election in 4/5 years. Put it up to FF to do what Martin offered and let them support a minority FG government.

Might be a moot point as it is edging ever closer to a FG only government. Regardless of this Labour would probably do better in opposition and I think the next election could well be far sooner than people think.

Asis

I say no, as a radicalised economic right-wing FG will do a lot of damage as a majority government.

The Volt

It would be better for the party in the long term but awful for the country in the short term.

Chucky the tree

Looking at the polls it seems the people of Ireland also want them to stay out of government.

Black Bloc

Voipjunkie wrote: »

Should Labour stay out of government. ...

Yes. I am paying enough income tax, levies and indirect taxes. Likewise i get enough forms in the door from government agencies inquiring into my business and how more could be screwed out of it.

I have been through the Labour manifesto and I am still no wiser about where various sweeties to fund the super-quango Strategic Investment Bank or to pump an extra €200 million into social welfare and child benefit will come from. On the one hand, the deficit has to be corrected and with a jobless growth forecast, and currently a reality, that means more taxes. Not good for consumption and business. And on the other hand, Labour is promising a mini spending bubble, which will require increasing rather than decreasing the tax burden. With Labour it is tax, tax tax all around.

A man (or woman) on welfare, unskilled to semi-skilled, with 3 to 4 kids (or more) will have great difficulty finding employment that will compensate him for what he would lose by giving up welfare benefits. Labour welfare policies would pull even more people into that welfare trap and increase the employment costs of businesses in the process. Ireland has to become a much lower wage economy to recover and that also means reducing the public expenditure and the number of public servants. Labour would shirk these tasks and offer an outlandishly large redundancy package.

conorhal

Voipjunkie wrote: »

Should Labour stay out of government. I see no difference between FineGael and Fianna Fail let them support the fine gael government as Martin has already offered.

Whatever government is elected is likely to be almost as unpopular as Fianna Fail is now so is Labour just likely to allow Fianna Fail to rebuild in opposition and come back in 5/10 years.

It looks like labour are unlikely to make the breakthrough they had hoped for so wouldn't they be better staying in opposition and show there is no difference between FF and FG and building for an election in 4/5 years. Put it up to FF to do what Martin offered and let them support a minority FG government.

That attitude is exactly the reason for Labor's disastrous slide in the polls lately.
It's the kind of classic 'party before politics' policy that seems to be endemic throughout our political system and which ultimately did for Cowen in the end when the people lost patience with a leader that seemed more focused on the crisis within his party then the one that was blighting our country. [/COLOR]
People are tired of it, they are crying out for decisive leadership with a clear plan to address the problem’s this country faces, and when they see Gilmore sniping from the fence (on with he seems permanently perched), they are royally turned off Labor. If you think people will respect that kind of a political dodge, choosing to stay in opposition to build up the party's popularity rather then trying to effect some change, you're sorely mistaken.
The negative ‘Tesco ads’ campaign was for me the final straw, I had considered giving a second or third preference to labor in the interests of a stable and balanced government, but now they have nothing but my contempt.

Killer Pigeon

Asis wrote: »

I say no, as a radicalised economic right-wing FG will do a lot of damage as a majority government.

Asis, are at present a member of the Labour Party or do you have any affiliations with them? Were you told by anyone to come on here and start attacking Fine Gael? You know attacking isn't going to work don't you? I say this and I'm canvassing for Labour at the moment and I can guarantee you that I was never told to condemn any party in the way you have, you every started a whole thread for it. I mean just look at the polls the "attacking everything" strategy isn't working. Focus on the policy or else people will think Labour have no policies. Focus on defense not offense.

BornToRun88

Voipjunkie wrote: »

Should Labour stay out of government. I see no difference between FineGael and Fianna Fail let them support the fine gael government as Martin has already offered.

Whatever government is elected is likely to be almost as unpopular as Fianna Fail is now so is Labour just likely to allow Fianna Fail to rebuild in opposition and come back in 5/10 years.

It looks like labour are unlikely to make the breakthrough they had hoped for so wouldn't they be better staying in opposition and show there is no difference between FF and FG and building for an election in 4/5 years. Put it up to FF to do what Martin offered and let them support a minority FG government.

Labour could stay in opposition and build up their organisation so that they themselves could head for an overall majority in the 2016 General Election if a Fine Gael government is unpopular.

Also if Labour were to stay in opposition and be lead opposition to the Fine Gael government, we'd have a right/left divide in Irish politics. Sp to answer the OP, the answer is yes.

CDfm

BornToRun88 wrote: »

Labour could stay in opposition and build up their organisation so that they themselves could head for an overall majority in the 2016 General Election if a Fine Gael government is unpopular.

Also if Labour were to stay in opposition and be lead opposition to the Fine Gael government, we'd have a right/left divide in Irish politics. Sp to answer the OP, the answer is yes.

I do think that Labours link with the unions has cost them.

I certainly have questioned Labours links and have not have satisfactory answers.

FG seem to think that there was some involvement on policy & political levels in the Social Partnership & it has me asking were they a silent partner in the last government.

I do not think Labour a representing anyone but the public service workers at the moment.

So I dont think the question is should they stay out but will they be invited in ?

Killer Pigeon

CDfm wrote: »

I do not think Labour a representing anyone but the public service workers at the moment.

You forgot the abortionists, gays and students.

http://m.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0221/breaking30.htm?via=latest

Killer Pigeon

Voltwad wrote: »

It would be better for the party in the long term but awful for the country in the short term.

Have you been catechised that much by the Labour Party?

Count Dooku

Voipjunkie wrote: »

Should Labour stay out of government. I see no difference between FineGael and Fianna Fail let them support the fine gael government as Martin has already offered.

Do you mean that country needs massive paycuts and redundancies in public sector and the best way to achieve it is keep Labour away from government? :rolleyes:

Auctionmcd

Black Bloc wrote: »

Yes. I am paying enough income tax, levies and indirect taxes. Likewise i get enough forms in the door from government agencies inquiring into my business and how more could be screwed out of it.

I have been through the Labour manifesto and I am still no wiser about where various sweeties to fund the super-quango Strategic Investment Bank or to pump an extra €200 million into social welfare and child benefit will come from. On the one hand, the deficit has to be corrected and with a jobless growth forecast, and currently a reality, that means more taxes. Not good for consumption and business. And on the other hand, Labour is promising a mini spending bubble, which will require increasing rather than decreasing the tax burden. With Labour it is tax, tax tax all around.

A man (or woman) on welfare, unskilled to semi-skilled, with 3 to 4 kids (or more) will have great difficulty finding employment that will compensate him for what he would lose by giving up welfare benefits. Labour welfare policies would pull even more people into that welfare trap and increase the employment costs of businesses in the process. Ireland has to become a much lower wage economy to recover and that also means reducing the public expenditure and the number of public servants. Labour would shirk these tasks and offer an outlandishly large redundancy package.

Sounds like FG propoganda, shall we never mention FG stealth tax policy, give the power to the councils to tax your home and rape you with rates.

dvpower

Auctionmcd wrote: »

Sounds like FG propoganda, shall we never mention FG stealth tax policy, give the power to the councils to tax your home and rape you with rates.

Now that's what I call propoganda.

CDfm

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

You forgot the abortionists, gays and students.

http://m.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0221/breaking30.htm?via=latest

Now I understand - a riddle - the Ivana Bacik Labour Party



- gays have done nothing to me so why should I want to treat them the same way as heterosexual men are at family law

- should Labour give a choice to students as to whether funds would be better allocated to job creation and whether the grant system should include an emigration grant

- on abortion - I am not a woman or an atheist and Ivana Bacik is both - but there are atheists on boards who are far more conservative than me and I have a teenage daughter .

It seems to me that this election is about the economy and issues that are matters of conscience should not be party politicised but subject to a "free vote" in the Dail.

Auctionmcd

dvpower wrote: »

Now that's what I call propoganda.

Exactly, boards are full of Propoganda, the problem is there isnt anyone here without an agenda.

3ndahalfof6

yes I think they would be better off staying out of government, for the same reason as other people have said,

give them a chance to build and prob get one of their best results in the next General Election (the time frame for this could be any time in the next 2yrs)

but alas power is what it is all about and if they get the chance they will pounce on it.

Noreen1

Auctionmcd wrote: »

Exactly, boards are full of Propoganda, the problem is there isnt anyone here without an agenda.

Not true. I've criticised all of the parties, to varying degrees. I freely admit to having criticised FF more than any other party, for obvious reasons.

I do not believe that any party has credible policies to get us out of this mess.
Neither do I believe that any party is being entirely honest about their intentions.

The electoral "spin" machine is alive and well in this election, just as in all the others. The only difference this time, is that the parties are attacking one anothers policies more openly.

On the other hand, I agree that a lot of posters on Boards do have an agenda, and some of these posters are not particularly subtle about it...

Lockstep

Black Bloc wrote: »

I have been through the Labour manifesto and I am still no wiser about where various sweeties to fund the super-quango Strategic Investment Bank

You didn't look very hard

Labour believes
that the Strategic Investment Bank
should be an essential component
of the re-structured banking system.
The bank would be set up as an
independent commercial operation,
using €2 billion of the National
Pension Reserve Fund as capital.

Page 17 of the Manifesto.

CDfm

Asis wrote: »

Fine Gael are a more ideologically pure Fianna Fail. FGers will admit this and then condemn someone for saying it.

Wait a minute here - Fianna Fail have been operating a Social Partnership style of government since at least 1960 when Sean Lemass was Taoiseach and TK Whitakker the Secretary at the Department of Finance. .

Now FG may have gone into Coalition with Labour but in terms of consultation and deal making with the public sector unions, private sector unions & other organisations FF have always operated concensus politics.

There is a huge difference to their styles of government.

FF is more Centre Left & FG Centre Right.

That is a major difference between FF & FG.

Lockstep

CDfm wrote: »

I do not think Labour a representing anyone but the public service workers at the moment.

Actually, the unions affiliated to Labour are mostly private sector, especially Ireland's largest trade union which is largely private sector (SIPTU). This is the main affiliate union to the Labour party.

By contrast, the public sector unions were mostly FF backing, some might have now switched allegiance to Labour (who are merely upholding the Croke Park Agreement, that Fianna Fáil agreed to) but Labour's affiliate unions are mostly private sector.

bmaxi

IMO, the best way to ensure a Fianna Fáil overall majority in the next election would be to return a Fine Gael overall majority in this one.
FG are Ireland's Tories, as their right wing monetary policies in the past have shown.
I don't hold a brief for the Labour party although my ideology would be left of centre but I think giving FG free rein would be disastrous for the country.

Voipjunkie

CDfm wrote: »

I do think that Labours link with the unions has cost them.

I certainly have questioned Labours links and have not have satisfactory answers.

FG seem to think that there was some involvement on policy & political levels in the Social Partnership & it has me asking were they a silent partner in the last government.

I do not think Labour a representing anyone but the public service workers at the moment.

So I dont think the question is should they stay out but will they be invited in ?

I disagree I think labours ratings are suffering because they are offering no alternative. FF,FG and labour are arguing about how the deck chairs on the titanic should be arranged should it be a four year or a five year plan should we get a better rate from the IMF should it be 50/50 cuts and taxes or 70/30.

IMO labour should have followed through on the logic of their vote against the bank guarantee and argued for a structured default on the bank debt with a bank resolution bill spelled out exactly how they would do it what it would mean explain that it would be difficult but that it was the only way out. Pointed to the examples of what happened in Argentina etc.

IMO labour has been squeezed from the left and right and they tried to stand in the middle ground consensus of paying back the bond holders. There is a reason Irish bond yields are 9%+ its because the markets don't believe we can pay the bank debt. So instead of accepting the markets are right and protecting Irish tax payers from trying labour signed up to the IMF/ECB deal and merely argue about the interest rate.

Labour should let FF/FG argue for paying back a debt we never borrowed and instead pointed us to the life boats of a structured default on the the bank debt.

analucija

CDfm wrote: »

Wait a minute here - Fianna Fail have been operating a
FF is more Centre Left & FG Centre Right.

That is a major difference between FF & FG.

If FF is centre left I'm a flamingo.

Roughly right stands cutting taxes and charging more for services. Left is higher taxes and basic services for everybody, especially poor people. FF cut taxes and gave in to public sector unions which mostly represent middle classes and benefit poor very little. Even labour party here is more centre than left in comparison to a lot of other european social democratic parties. There is very little differences between FG and FF except one being in power for waaay to long.

Auctionmcd

Voipjunkie wrote: »

I disagree I think labours ratings are suffering because they are offering no alternative. FF,FG and labour are arguing about how the deck chairs on the titanic should be arranged should it be a four year or a five year plan should we get a better rate from the IMF should it be 50/50 cuts and taxes or 70/30.

IMO labour should have followed through on the logic of their vote against the bank guarantee and argued for a structured default on the bank debt with a bank resolution bill spelled out exactly how they would do it what it would mean explain that it would be difficult but that it was the only way out. Pointed to the examples of what happened in Argentina etc.

IMO labour has been squeezed from the left and right and they tried to stand in the middle ground consensus of paying back the bond holders. There is a reason Irish bond yields are 9%+ its because the markets don't believe we can pay the bank debt. So instead of accepting the markets are right and protecting Irish tax payers from trying labour signed up to the IMF/ECB deal and merely argue about the interest rate.

Labour should let FF/FG argue for paying back a debt we never borrowed and instead pointed us to the life boats of a structured default on the the bank debt.

What we are seriously lacking is a party who are credible enough to say 'We are Irish, we will not bail out German and French and UK gamblers, they gambled in the Irish economy and lost, tough. We will not bail them out because of their poor choices, we will not crucify our nation to support foreign banks and IF that means the end of the Euro, so be it.'

Auctionmcd

bmaxi wrote: »

IMO, the best way to ensure a Fianna Fáil overall majority in the next election would be to return a Fine Gael overall majority in this one.
FG are Ireland's Tories, as their right wing monetary policies in the past have shown.
I don't hold a brief for the Labour party although my ideology would be left of centre but I think giving FG free rein would be disastrous for the country.

I think what we are looking at is a FG majority. They have the impetus now and the Labour challenge is collapsing. We are going to get a predominately right wing government which I fear will drift even further right.

We have been led down a slippery slope for years and now it seems its going to continue down into a pit where recovery is going to be very difficult.

bamboozle

the incoming govt needs to tackle public expenditure, cronyism, public sector wages while increasing efficiency, would Labour be capable of standing up to the unions who are helping finance their election campaign?

Black Bloc

Lockstep wrote: »

You didn't look very hard

Page 17 of the Manifesto.

That's precisely the problem with Labour's policy.

The pension reserve fund is pledged to the bailout - that condition was set by the IMF/EFSF groups. Without it going first into the pot, the bailout deal wouldn't have been delivered. Sorry, free lunches off the menu.

Lockstep

Black Bloc wrote: »

That's precisely the problem with Labour's policy.

The pension reserve fund is pledged to the bailout - that condition was set by the IMF/EFSF groups. Without it going first into the pot, the bailout deal wouldn't have been delivered. Sorry, free lunches off the menu.

Wrong.
There's still around €5bn left in the NPRF (or so Martin said at the leaders debate on RTÉ)

The Irish contribution to the IMF/ECB bailout came in at €17.5bn, which includes the NPRF and other sources. The NPRF wasn't used in its entirety.

Black Bloc

Lockstep wrote: »

Wrong.
There's still around €5bn left in the NPRF (or so Martin said at the leaders debate on RTÉ)

The Irish contribution to the IMF/ECB bailout came in at €17.5bn, which includes the NPRF and other sources. The NPRF wasn't used in its entirety.

Pat Rabbite stated on RTE radio at the end of November (29 or 29) that the banks were using the NPRF as collateral, probably at the insistence of the ECB. Lenihan confirmed that the NPRF had to be put of the table to secure the bailout. At the end of September 2010 the NPRF had only €4 billion in cash. The remaining (notional) €20 billion was encumbered. The EU will not permit the creation of another bank in Ireland - the ECB has mandated the downsizing of the existing one. Labour is playing the populist card. Pure and simple.

ftnbase

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Asis, are at present a member of the Labour Party or do you have any affiliations with them? Were you told by anyone to come on here and start attacking Fine Gael? You know attacking isn't going to work don't you? I say this and I'm canvassing for Labour at the moment and I can guarantee you that I was never told to condemn any party in the way you have, you every started a whole thread for it. I mean just look at the polls the "attacking everything" strategy isn't working. Focus on the policy or else people will think Labour have no policies. Focus on defense not offense.

I think it is surprising to hear such comments from a Labour canvasser - the Labour strategy for the past week, in particular, has been extremely critical of FG in particular. Thankfully it has not reaped the rewards in terms of the polls.
Labour were doing well when they could sit on the fence on issues like Croke Park, Water charges, Property tax but seem to struggle when their "policies" get questioned. Seems to happen them in lots of elections.

Lockstep

Black Bloc wrote: »

Pat Rabbite stated on RTE radio at the end of November (29 or 29) that the banks were using the NPRF as collateral, probably at the insistence of the ECB. Lenihan confirmed that the NPRF had to be put of the table to secure the bailout. At the end of September 2010 the NPRF had only €4 billion in cash. The remaining (notional) €20 billion was encumbered. The EU will not permit the creation of another bank in Ireland - the ECB has mandated the downsizing of the existing one. Labour is playing the populist card. Pure and simple.

Sources please?
Martin was saying there was €4.8bn at the RTÉ leaders debate when Adams was going on about using the NPRF for various projects.
Of course the NPRF was being used as collateral for the bailout but the NPRF wasn't the only source of Irish contributions meaning the entire thing isn't gone. This €4.8bn is the money left over after the IMF/ECB rescue package and bank guarantees.

Why would the EU not allow the creation of another bank in Ireland? Especially one that isn't a bad bank by the previous debts.

Auctionmcd

Lockstep wrote: »

Sources please?
Martin was saying there was €4.8bn at the RTÉ leaders debate when Adams was going on about using the NPRF for various projects.
Of course the NPRF was being used as collateral for the bailout but the NPRF wasn't the only source of Irish contributions meaning the entire thing isn't gone. This €4.8bn is the money left over after the IMF/ECB rescue package and bank guarantees.

Why would the EU not allow the creation of another bank in Ireland? Especially one that isn't a bad bank by the previous debts.

Does anyone else not find it very strange that THE IRISH REPUBLIC seemingly a democracy, supposed to be a Nation implying it is a sovereign state, is being held to ransom by a Europe that was supposed to benefit all its members without infringing on its sovereignty. We had more freedom under British rule and I believe the effects that were felt in Ireland under British rule will have endured for a lot less time than this burden of debt that will hit future generations.

Idbatterim

Labor getting into government will be a bad for all.Its hilarious, this short term mentality of "there is any easy solution" or "let others pays". Labor are only going to damage our economic prospects even more, maintain the status quo and kick the can further down the road...

PeterIanStaker

Labour stayed out of Government in 1918 and look at the mess that followed . . . . 90 years of Civil War politics, emigration, stagnation and institutionalised, state sponsored child rape.

The chance for a proper civilised (ha!) Left/Right divide in political discourse on this island is long overdue.

CDfm

analucija wrote: »

If FF is centre left I'm a flamingo.

Flamingoes are pretty

Roughly right stands cutting taxes and charging more for services. Left is higher taxes and basic services for everybody, especially poor people.

Left does not nesscessarily mean higher taxes.

You have the situation of collective bargaining at a national level and the Social Partnership on a Social Corporate Model favoured by countries such as Austria, Sweden, Morway & Germany in Post War Europe. They take it further because they have what we have not - a developed capital base.

Our geographical position vis a vis Europe and "primitive capital base"mean we external foreign investment to grow. You can see this with the large between GDP & GNP.

Relatively, if you are going to redistribute wealth it needs to be there.

Even during the tiger era it was a speculative bubble and was illusory. You cant redistribute an illusion.

FF cut taxes and gave in to public sector unions which mostly represent middle classes and benefit poor very little. Even labour party here is more centre than left in comparison to a lot of other european social democratic parties.

Ireland has to be pragmatic as it needs to operate a low wage and low tax model for several reasons but the main being to attract inward investment and also to overcome the geographical distance from Europe and shifting product.

So their are sound local reasons why we cant go the whole hog as it would kill of foreign investment.

There is very little differences between FG and FF except one being in power for waaay to long.

Fine Gael have never liked the "social corporate" model.

How else would you categorise FF but relative to the style of government it adopted,

CDfm

Lockstep wrote: »

. This €4.8bn is the money left over after the IMF/ECB rescue package and bank guarantees.

Why would the EU not allow the creation of another bank in Ireland? Especially one that isn't a bad bank by the previous debts.

Because Ireland is in a very dodgy economic position.

Irelands regulatory structure in the form of its civil service & central bank was either unable or unwilling to control its existing system.

Auctionmcd wrote: »

Does anyone else not find it very strange that THE IRISH REPUBLIC seemingly a democracy, supposed to be a Nation implying it is a sovereign state, is being held to ransom by a Europe that was supposed to benefit all its members without infringing on its sovereignty. We had more freedom under British rule and I believe the effects that were felt in Ireland under British rule will have endured for a lot less time than this burden of debt that will hit future generations.

I don't think they would trust our public service and politicians to run a piggy bank. Zero credibility.

We do not trust them -so why should they.

Our European partners are in the business of government

Hasschu

I love how we raise our Sovereignty and Independence as protection against the big bad EU whose institution the ECB has showered us with over Euro150 Billion at close to zero interest rates and over Euro 100 Billion at half the rate we could get on the open market. We Irish voted in one of the most incompetent governments in human history. For decades we have knowingly voted for cronyism, nepotism, fraud and corruption. We truly believe that such behaviour is normal and we reward it. Could we now stop whining and complaining about the EU without whom we would be living in shebeens without running water or sewers with four out of five poorly educated youngsters having to emigrate to find work. Wake up and smell the tay.

Black Bloc

Lockstep wrote: »

Sources please?
Martin was saying there was €4.8bn at the RTÉ leaders debate when Adams was going on about using the NPRF for various projects.
Of course the NPRF was being used as collateral for the bailout but the NPRF wasn't the only source of Irish contributions meaning the entire thing isn't gone. This €4.8bn is the money left over after the IMF/ECB rescue package and bank guarantees.

Why would the EU not allow the creation of another bank in Ireland? Especially one that isn't a bad bank by the previous debts.

Rabbitte was on RTE radio on either the 28th or 29th November 2010. Google it. His comments were widely covered. The NPRF Commission publishes quarterly reports on its website www.nprf.ie. Check the September quarterly report (about €4.1 billion then in cash). There isn't €5 billion to spare and even if there were anything like it, the cash could not be dumped into one institution. It would leave the NPRF without a cash reserve and it must operate with a cash reserve.

CDfm

Hasschu wrote: »

I Wake up and smell the tay.

Very poetic - just like this



What need you, being come to sense,
But fumble in a greasy till
And add the halfpence to the pence
And prayer to shivering prayer, until
You have dried the marrow from the bone?
For men were born to pray and save:
Romantic]Ireland's dead and gone,
It's with O'Leary in the grave.

CDfm

Black Bloc wrote: »

Rabbitte was on RTE radio on either the 28th or 29th November 2010. Google it. His comments were widely covered. The NPRF Commission publishes quarterly reports on its website www.nprf.ie. Check the September quarterly report (about €4.1 billion then in cash). There isn't €5 billion to spare and even if there were anything like it, the cash could not be dumped into one institution. It would leave the NPRF without a cash reserve and it must operate with a cash reserve.

In fairness, it isn't just Rabbite who defies the Laws of Economics they are all at it.

There is an interesting article on it here

The government’s unique contribution to Keynesian economics has been to apply Keynes’s methods in search of a different result. While Keynes’s primary goal was preserve the then current social order by taking control of the commanding heights of industry from unreliable markets, the government seeks to ’sustain’ the current social order by using public money to keep the markets in place.

and

Productive industry, the bedrock of any functioning economy, is almost entirely absent from Ireland. We are ‘a small, open economy’ as we are told with mind-numbing regularity. What is always skipped-over by this handy conversation stopper is the fact that even ’small’ and ‘open’ economies can still manufacture things that people might want to buy.

http://forth.ie/index.php/content/article/anglo_keynesian_government

I hate listening to politicians talk about money when they really do not want to take on board that the world does not work the way they want it to.

Lockstep

Black Bloc wrote: »

Rabbitte was on RTE radio on either the 28th or 29th November 2010. Google it. His comments were widely covered. The NPRF Commission publishes quarterly reports on its website www.nprf.ie. Check the September quarterly report (about €4.1 billion then in cash). There isn't €5 billion to spare and even if there were anything like it, the cash could not be dumped into one institution. It would leave the NPRF without a cash reserve and it must operate with a cash reserve.

There's already far more than that being given over as a contribution to the IMF/ECB bailout from the NPRF. Plus Labour isn't talking about using the entire €5bn, if the government has already paid out most of the NPRF then the fraction of cash reserves would still be a fairly high ratio.