Driving while on Blues and Twos

rescue16

Hi people I am just wondering as a general disscussion what problems my fellow colleagues in the emergency services have had while driving while on blues and twos and to what the goverment can do to improve legislation regarding what the public should do when there is a emergency vehicle approaching them.

CaseyRyback

No

Your question would have been more clear as:

Should failure to yield to an emergency vehicle traveling under blue lights be an offence?

rescue16

No

CaseyRyback wrote: »

Your question would have been more clear as:

Should failure to yield to an emergency vehicle traveling under blue lights be an offence?

True for you casey but sure they know what i mean lol thanks anyway

Turner

Every emergency service driver (whether trained or not) knows that blue lights and sirens do not give them any entitlements while driving.

They are simply an aid for getting past traffic.

Making it an offence? I dont think we need to go there.

Are the Gardai responding to an armed incident going to waste time and pull over and take details off a confused granny?

Turner

Rescue16 i edited your poll title but i was limited by the numbers of characters.

stoneill

No

I know that in the US it is a traffic offence not to pull in and stop for emergency vehicles.
The one exception to this is school buses. If a school bus is stopped with the wigwag red lights on and the stop sign out and kids are getting on or off then ALL traffic, including emergency vehicles responding must stop. (Maybe not all states but deffo Oregon)

Oink

I would tend to agree with the chief. It seems to me that most delays occur when people get confused or a bit scared, more than carelessness or mischief? Have you experienced a lot of that?

seamus

I understand that compulsion is somewhat of a thorny issue, even with emergency services drivers.

From what I gather many U.S. states make a point of telling drivers to do nothing when they see an emergency vehicle coming up behind unless they're specifically in the way. Many drivers will panic when they see it coming up and will instinctively just pull out of the way, in many cases getting in the way in the process.

The EM driver will generally be picking his line through the traffic while he drives, and traffic being told that they are required to move out of the way, changes the traffic layout, making it difficult to pick your line. But if the vehicles are told to do nothing, don't move, don't brake, then the traffic layout stays stable and the driver can make it through his chosen route without having to constantly adjust it for panicking drivers.

While it sounds like a no-brainer to have an ambulance blasting down the M50 in the overtaking lane, and everyone being legally required to pull left to let him pass, what happens when he needs to take his exit? People see him coming up behind and will draw left, only to block the slip road and make his life more difficult.

MagicSean

No

Oink wrote: »

I would tend to agree with the chief. It seems to me that most delays occur when people get confused or a bit scared, more than carelessness or mischief? Have you experienced a lot of that?

Surely a sign of someone who possibly should not have a licence.

timogen

As said above,i dont think anyone is trying to hinder the emergency services.But at what point do you what it to be an offence.I drive a truck and there has been times if i pulled in and stopped when i have seen a fire engine it wouldn't of made it past me,would you prosocute me for not pulling in straight away.Most of the time you will be at a junction when you hear the blues and twos and have to wait to see the vehicle as you might not be able to know from which direction it is actually coming from.
People just have to use common sence.
But i do believe it should be an offence (if it is not already)to use blues and twos which i believe happens regularly when not on an emergency.

swiftblade

No

Did we not cover this in the other thread?

The majority of motorists do pull over for emergency veichles, only a minority don't. Also the few that don't is probably down to shere incompetitence or panicking ( eg. my mum when she see's the blues).
It's not as if there is wide spread attitude of "F you" to the blues.

This is going end up where the other thread left off......

MagicSean

No

swiftblade wrote: »

Did we not cover this in the other thread?

The majority of motorists do pull over for emergency veichles, only a minority don't. Also the few that don't is probably down to shere incompetitence or panicking ( eg. my mum when she see's the blues).
It's not as if there is wide spread attitude of "F you" to the blues.

This is going end up where the other thread left off......

Seriously, how is this an excuse? If a driver can't cope with a siren how are they going to cope with any other unexpected occurence on the road?

swiftblade

No

k_mac wrote: »

Seriously, how is this an excuse? If a driver can't cope with a siren how are they going to cope with any other unexpected occurence on the road?

Oh no don't get me wrong it's no excuse, but it's not as if people are doing it out of spite or hate, which is what some people seem to think.

MagicSean

No

swiftblade wrote: »

Oh no don't get me wrong it's no excuse, but it's not as if people are doing it out of spite or hate, which is what some people seem to think.

I think it's worse if they're doing it out of panic. That kind of person is more dangerous on the roads than someone who is simply ignorant.

Tango Alpha 51

No

timogen wrote: »

But i do believe it should be an offence (if it is not already)to use blues and twos which i believe happens regularly when not on an emergency.

Your basis for making such an outlandish statement is what exactly ????:mad:
Your casting a slur on all ES personnel by making this statement. It has been pointed out in numerous threads on this forum of the severity of abusing blue lights by any statutory ES personnel, obviously I will not speak for any voluntary group.

Either back it up with facts or withdraw it!!.

timogen

buzzman wrote: »

Your basis for making such an outlandish statement is what exactly ????:mad:
Your casting a slur on all ES personnel by making this statement. It has been pointed out in numerous threads on this forum of the severity of abusing blue lights by any statutory ES personnel, obviously I will not speak for any voluntary group.

Either back it up with facts or withdraw it!!.

I have personally seen an unmarked garda vehicle turn on it's blues and twos to go through a very dangerous junction that had lot of traffic waiting at it, It pulled in at a petrol station just up the road from it ,i was behind him.He went in and bought what i expect was lunch there certainly wasn't an emergency.
I have seen that myself.Blue Light flashing and siren going just so he didn't have to stop in traffic.
Just like all walks of life there will be a few that bend or break rules or are you telling me it has never been done.

savagecabbages

No

I agree that there is abuse I've seen it happen myself several times. I dont this as a major problem and its not the topic of this thread.

I too think the majority of people who cause obstruction are panicing, then again they have probably never been told how to act in this situation. Why would an instructor teach something which isn't covered in the driving test?

I think there is a good case for an offense, though enforcing it could be difficult at times. Some vehicles are fitted with cameras already would it be very difficult to attain prosecutions from these existing ones, and would they be enough of a deterrent?

(mis)Education of drivers is a topic for another day :D

CaseyRyback

No

timogen wrote: »

I have personally seen an unmarked garda vehicle turn on it's blues and twos to go through a very dangerous junction that had lot of traffic waiting at it, It pulled in at a petrol station just up the road from it ,i was behind him.He went in and bought what i expect was lunch there certainly wasn't an emergency.
I have seen that myself.Blue Light flashing and siren going just so he didn't have to stop in traffic.
Just like all walks of life there will be a few that bend or break rules or are you telling me it has never been done.

Now picture this if you will, a little imagination may be required :eek:

Emergency vehicle receives emergency call so proceeds using emergency equipment so as to make progress through traffic. As it approaches a junction with a set of red ATS (where you're sat patiently waiting) traffic moves out of the way and traffic moving in the crossing flow slows at the sound of the siren. At this point the emergency vehicle receives a call to the effect that they are no longer required as another vehicle has got there first. The ES vehicle driver proceeds through the red ATS to a point where he/she can safely deactivate the warning equipment and does this on a garage forecourt where they then pop in to buy a sanger for lunch (another heinous crime in the book of many).

This happens regularly (incredibly the buying of lunch happens most days in all emergency services usually around lunch time :eek:) and is more often than not misunderstood by joe public.

Hope this helps.

/sarcasm.

savagecabbages

No

or he/she was going for lunch.
Its not fair to rubbish what the poster who was actually there saw vs. what you think might have happened

swiftblade

No

savagecabbages wrote: »

or he/she was going for lunch.
Its not fair to rubbish what the poster who was actually there saw vs. what you think might have happened

This is because people can't seem to comprehend the seriousness of using blues when not authorised. It's not as simple as "feck this im not waiting at the lights" .

Also what would they have to gain by "jumping" the light, if in fact they were just going for their lunch?

savagecabbages

No

Thats fair enough, and quite true.

Who knows what somebody has to gain by breaking the lights, obviously he/she felt justified to do it, and then did it. Theres no excuse, but it still happens.
Or maybe they did receive a stand down

My problem was somebody rubbishing what somebody else said from over a keyboard when somebody stated what they actually saw. This is what destroys good/interesting discussions. Everyone can have an opinion

CaseyRyback

No

savagecabbages wrote: »

or he/she was going for lunch.
Its not fair to rubbish what the poster who was actually there saw vs. what you think might have happened

Are you saying because I wasn't there my comment is not valid? :eek:

I am shocked and dismayed.

timogen

CaseyRyback wrote: »

Now picture this if you will, a little imagination may be required :eek:

Emergency vehicle receives emergency call so proceeds using emergency equipment so as to make progress through traffic. As it approaches a junction with a set of red ATS (where you're sat patiently waiting) traffic moves out of the way and traffic moving in the crossing flow slows at the sound of the siren. At this point the emergency vehicle receives a call to the effect that they are no longer required as another vehicle has got there first. The ES vehicle driver proceeds through the red ATS to a point where he/she can safely deactivate the warning equipment and does this on a garage forecourt where they then pop in to buy a sanger for lunch (another heinous crime in the book of many).

This happens regularly (incredibly the buying of lunch happens most days in all emergency services usually around lunch time :eek:) and is more often than not misunderstood by joe public.

Hope this helps.

/sarcasm.

Yes i get where you are coming from and could happen, as could the way i said it no.He should also be getting what i suppect was lunch as it did have a sambo on his own time.
Or what have i misunderstood when he was buying lunch he was on his own time for his break i hope he took it out of his break when he got back to the station.
He was also stopped at the traffic lights which usually means a couple of minutes wait at this perticular junction. from what you say,He got the call jump the lights he didnt rush down the road he must have got the call straight after the lights that he wasn't needed all in the space of a seconds.Got him through the lights though lucky him

CaseyRyback

No

timogen wrote: »

buying lunch he was on his own time for his break i hope he took it out of his break when he got back to the station.

In many busy areas sometimes there are no breaks so cops are forced to scoff a sambo when the opportunity presents itself.

swiftblade

No

timogen wrote: »

Yes i get where you are coming from and could happen, as could the way i said it no.He should also be getting what i suppect was lunch as it did have a sambo on his own time.
Or what have i misunderstood when he was buying lunch he was on his own time for his break i hope he took it out of his break when he got back to the station.
He was also stopped at the traffic lights which usually means a couple of minutes wait at this perticular junction. from what you say,He got the call jump the lights he didnt rush down the road he must have got the call straight after the lights that he wasn't needed all in the space of a seconds.Got him through the lights though lucky him

Im not trying to sound funny, but I really can't understand your post.

Of coarse it could have happened, but it's very unlikely it did.

This is just going to be an endless debate into whether it happened. We will never know.

I can't see this thread lasting much longer......

timogen

CaseyRyback wrote: »

In many busy areas sometimes there are no breaks so cops are forced to scoff a sambo when the opportunity presents itself.

Yeah thats fair enough but would be also a reason why he wanted to get through the lights in a hurry.

savagecabbages

No

CaseyRyback wrote: »

because I wasn't there my comment is not valid? :eek:

I am shocked and dismayed.

NO
I'm saying you have no right to rubbish what somebody stated they saw. It doesn't make your input less valid, not does it give you the right to declare other peoples input less valid.

Staying on topic what kind of punishment do people think should come with this offense? You guys are the exerts on this, I'm thinking driving without due care an attention, or does this deserve its own punishment?

swiftblade

No

There might also have been a terrorist in the petrol station with a bomb.

All you are doing is speculating what happened. Nobody knows for sure.

CaseyRyback

No

savagecabbages wrote: »

NO
I'm saying you have no right to rubbish what somebody stated they saw. It doesn't make your input less valid, not does it give you the right to declare other peoples input less valid.

Staying on topic what kind of punishment do people think should come with this offense? You guys are the exerts on this, I'm thinking driving without due care an attention, or does this deserve its own punishment?

Don't getcher cabbages in a twist. I wasn't rubbishing anything just presenting an alternative. Maybe look again without your blinkers on.

timogen

swiftblade wrote: »

Im not trying to sound funny, but I really can't understand your post.

Of coarse it could have happened, but it's very unlikely it did.

This is just going to be an endless debate into whether it happened. We will never know.

I can't see this thread lasting much longer......

I seen what happened,you are only speculating.I don't reckon he was on a call from his actions.
I do agree with you,it would be an endless debate.

timogen

Just so ye get the picture ill go through it.
I am on the new river road(castleknock) the third car back from the lights,I will be turning left onto the navan rd intowards the city centre.The unmarked was also on the new river road but about five cars behind me which puts him a car or two behind the lights at the travel lodge junction. The lights and siren come on he is just making it through as the lights go green for us, lights and siren go off but he doesnt put the foot down but just like the rest of the traffic was driving the car normally,if there was an emergency i would have expected him to do a bit of speed down the clear road I don't think he even reached the 80kph as he pulled into the esso garage.
The time it took him to get through both lights 30seconds.
Could you get a call and it be cancelled in that short space of time?

Tango Alpha 51

No

The answer to your question Timogen is yes it can happen. Routinely we've been activated to a call whilst waiting in traffic. Just as we turn on the lights & sirens & start to proceed through traffic, we have got calls to stand down as another resource which is closer has become clear & available. All this can take just 30seconds.

rescue16

No

timogen wrote: »

I have personally seen an unmarked garda vehicle turn on it's blues and twos to go through a very dangerous junction that had lot of traffic waiting at it, It pulled in at a petrol station just up the road from it ,i was behind him.He went in and bought what i expect was lunch there certainly wasn't an emergency.
I have seen that myself.Blue Light flashing and siren going just so he didn't have to stop in traffic.
Just like all walks of life there will be a few that bend or break rules or are you telling me it has never been done.

Just wondering have you proof that he bought lunch ? Did you see him with a sandwich or something in his hand or it is possible that the person serving in the shop pressed the panic button by mistake which happens alot which any officer of the law in here would agree that it does just happenjust like a fire alarm sometimes that little red box on the wall gets broken by mistake or by stupidity so in fairness this is what he might be responding too And if you were wondering why he was using his blues and twos why did you not just get the reg of the garda car in question and ring the station and ask was he responding to a emergency call . Now saying that it could be that he got stood down just as he went through the lights.

Shield

I think this is an appropriate video to close this thread on...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dkTv-JoEHQ