How would you want to be "knocked back"?

Eve_Dublin

There´s been a fair few threads on women and their tactics for letting a man down in the pub. It seems most men have problems with our approach but I´d like to ask you men....if you started chatting up a woman and she wasn´t interested, how would you like to be let down? I think women are in a tough position sometimes...I know myself I don´t want to hurt anyone´s feelings and don´t want to knock the confidence of some guy who had the courage to approach me. Last night I was dancing away in a club here in Madrid and was approached by a Spanish guy who I´d absolutely no interest in plus I was dancing my backside off and having a good time with friends. I didn´t want to stop and converse so I pretended I didn´t understand him (he approached me in Spanish obviously), then he tried English and I pretended I didn´t understand that either and he gave up. I suppose I thought he can´t be hurt if I can´t converse with him (although I doubt he believed I´d no English with the big Northern European head on me)...that was my logic after a fair few beers anyway. Not my best let down and I felt bad but the auld Latins wouldn´t be shy in approaching and I suppose if I was to explain my lack of interest to every one of them (I don´t get approached all that often in fairness but this club was that kinda place). How can you knock back a guy nicely? When I´ve been honest and said I´m just not interested, I´ve had some very bad responses from guys.

So what do ya reckon guys? Let´s sort this out once and for all.

cantdecide

Just don't be rude or precious. White lies are the way to go. Be friendly and just say something like 'hey sorry, I can't really talk. I'm out catching up with old friends'.

IMO, most men don't think that every girl fancies him (contrary to popular belief) but if you do pluck up the courage, a little respect is appreciated. I know that I'm no Adonis but that doesn't mean I'm a creep. It is a knock when someone let's you have it with both barrels just because you're not their type...

amacachi

I'd like a reference to my balding or other ugliness, that way I don't have to think of ways to improve myself. :pac:

Sanjuro

If a guy acts like a dick when you say you're not interested, that's probably nothing to do with the way you said it, but more down to the guy being a dick in the first place. You probably did nothing wrong!

IMO, just be honest and polite. There's nothing worse for a guy to pluck up the courage to approach a girl and she either laughs at him or is very rude. It's a real confidence knocker. I once approached a girl and just went for it and she was very nice about it. She said 'I'm not really interested in getting into anything at the moment. But thank you for the compliment, it was really sweet.' We chatted for a little longer, and I moved on. Not embarrassed or disappointed, but glad I had taken the chance in the first place. It costs nothing to be nice, and it certainly doesn't lead to a knock in confidence.

Of course, if the guy's a dick about it, I fully believe you should tell him to piss off.

Larianne

Sanjuro wrote: »

If a guy acts like a dick when you say you're not interested, that's probably nothing to do with the way you said it, but more down to the guy being a dick in the first place. You probably did nothing wrong!

IMO, just be honest and polite. There's nothing worse for a guy to pluck up the courage to approach a girl and she either laughs at him or is very rude. It's a real confidence knocker. I once approached a girl and just went for it and she was very nice about it. She said 'I'm not really interested in getting into anything at the moment. But thank you for the compliment, it was really sweet.' We chatted for a little longer, and I moved on. Not embarrassed or disappointed, but glad I had taken the chance in the first place. It costs nothing to be nice, and it certainly doesn't lead to a knock in confidence.

Of course, if the guy's a dick about it, I fully believe you should tell him to piss off.

You can't be expected to do anything more than this.

Maguined

Sanjuro wrote: »

If a guy acts like a dick when you say you're not interested, that's probably nothing to do with the way you said it, but more down to the guy being a dick in the first place. You probably did nothing wrong!

IMO, just be honest and polite. There's nothing worse for a guy to pluck up the courage to approach a girl and she either laughs at him or is very rude. It's a real confidence knocker. I once approached a girl and just went for it and she was very nice about it. She said 'I'm not really interested in getting into anything at the moment. But thank you for the compliment, it was really sweet.' We chatted for a little longer, and I moved on. Not embarrassed or disappointed, but glad I had taken the chance in the first place. It costs nothing to be nice, and it certainly doesn't lead to a knock in confidence.

Of course, if the guy's a dick about it, I fully believe you should tell him to piss off.

This, honest and polite.

If the guy is mature and secure with himself he will not feel bad about receiving such a response, he will accept it and continue on with his night without feeling bad about it. If a guy reacts badly or pushy to this sort of let down then he is insecure, immature or just an asshole.

stupidusername

Recently had to tell a guy I didn't fancy him. and he didn't take it too well at all. got kinda nasty. I was trying not to take his reaction personally but it is hard sometimes.It wasn't an easy situation to get out of.

It's an automatic thing for me to be 100% honest, but my guy friends I've talked to say that you shouldn't be honest about it, but making up something seems silly and fake. and I'm not sure I could even think of something to say anyway.

TouchingVirus

A simple Sorry I'm not interested or You're not really my type will work. There's no need to get explicit with a "With you? Never" or "You're not my type, you're too fat/small/<other descriptor here>". Nice and polite

If a guy can't take it then that's too bad, don't feel bad about it

Snowie

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

There´s been a fair few threads on women and their tactics for letting a man down in the pub. It seems most men have problems with our approach but I´d like to ask you men....if you started chatting up a woman and she wasn´t interested, how would you like to be let down? I think women are in a tough position sometimes...I know myself I don´t want to hurt anyone´s feelings and don´t want to knock the confidence of some guy who had the courage to approach me. Last night I was dancing away in a club here in Madrid and was approached by a Spanish guy who I´d absolutely no interest in plus I was dancing my backside off and having a good time with friends. I didn´t want to stop and converse so I pretended I didn´t understand him (he approached me in Spanish obviously), then he tried English and I pretended I didn´t understand that either and he gave up. I suppose I thought he can´t be hurt if I can´t converse with him (although I doubt he believed I´d no English with the big Northern European head on me)...that was my logic after a fair few beers anyway. Not my best let down and I felt bad but the auld Latins wouldn´t be shy in approaching and I suppose if I was to explain my lack of interest to every one of them (I don´t get approached all that often in fairness but this club was that kinda place). How can you knock back a guy nicely? When I´ve been honest and said I´m just not interested, I´ve had some very bad responses from guys.

So what do ya reckon guys? Let´s sort this out once and for all.

I think its pretty ridicules moaning about, something that you cant really

(a) do anything about
(b) is going to happen if you approach women int he wrong manor for countless reasons
(c) she could be in a bad mood.
(d) completely pointless.
(e) and most of the owmen in irealnd arnt going to provide any imput.

At the end of the day some chick insults me cause i just made an attempt on chatting her up.... O no...

Now if you sensitive enough to take it as a personal insult and not bounce it off the cuff well then i think you need to look at your self a lot more, and not take things so serously.

it doesnt bother me if some woman verbally insults me or rejects me its life, well minous there verbal insult...

but sure it happens forming a group conversation about it really aint going to changes things


even tho its a pitty that it didn't. .. :pac:

Raekwon

Snow-Monkey wrote: »

At the end of the day some chick insults me cause i just made an attempt on chatting her up.... O no...

Now if you sensitive enough to take it as a personal insult and not bounce it off the cuff well then i think you need to look at your self a lot more, and not take things so serously.

it doesnt bother me if some woman verbally insults me or rejects me its life, well minous there verbal insult...

But that is the point of the tread (I think, OP back me up here )

Why should women be allowed to personally insult men that try to engage in some polite conversation with them? I think that its ridiculous to even condone such behaviour.

If the shoe was on the other foot and some girl approached a guy and he said something like "Ha, in your dreams fatty", wouldn't you think that he was acting like an arrogant a**hole? So why is it 'normal' for women to do it?

Jumpy

Raekwon wrote: »

But that is the point of the tread (I think, OP back me up here )

Why should women be allowed to personally insult men that try to engage in some polite conversation with them? I think that its ridiculous to even condone such behaviour.

If the shoe was on the other foot and some girl approached a guy and he said something like "Ha, in your dreams fatty", wouldn't you think that he was acting like an arrogant a**hole? So why is it 'normal' for women to do it?

I think she should be allowed. It lets you know that you had a lucky escape.

stupidusername

I think generally irish people need to cop on a bit when it comes to being asked out. I mean a girl or guy should be able to ask someone out without worrying about feeling like **** for it, either by being laughed at or by being insulted. I mean there's no need for it. I really wish it was easier to do. cause more guys would have the courage to do it, and girls like me might actually get asked out. and i would never say something like 'ha not in a million years'. I mean whatever, think you're the greatest looking person in the world just don't look down on other people cause you consider them out of your 'league'

pragmatic1

Raekwon wrote: »

But that is the point of the tread (I think, OP back me up here )

Why should women be allowed to personally insult men that try to engage in some polite conversation with them? I think that its ridiculous to even condone such behaviour.

If the shoe was on the other foot and some girl approached a guy and he said something like "Ha, in your dreams fatty", wouldn't you think that he was acting like an arrogant a**hole? So why is it 'normal' for women to do it?

+1. So true.

Raekwon

Jumpy wrote: »

I think she should be allowed. It lets you know that you had a lucky escape.

That is true, but respect goes both ways, if women realised this and stopped boosting their own egos then we would all probably get along much better

Snowie

Raekwon wrote: »

But that is the point of the tread (I think, OP back me up here )

Why should women be allowed to personally insult men that try to engage in some polite conversation with them? I think that its ridiculous to even condone such behaviour.

If the shoe was on the other foot and some girl approached a guy and he said something like "Ha, in your dreams fatty", wouldn't you think that he was acting like an arrogant a**hole? So why is it 'normal' for women to do it?

but it does happen...

Talking and moaning about it, is not going to change anything how ever emailing some radio talk shows.

Your not going to change anything here. its a debate about what how irish women insult irish men...

can you blame them with some of the half assed atitudes they have ?

milli milli

Sanjuro wrote: »

I once approached a girl and just went for it and she was very nice about it. She said 'I'm not really interested in getting into anything at the moment. But thank you for the compliment, it was really sweet.'

I have to say, this comment speaks volumes about the girl. She's obviously a mature, confident, well adjusted individual.
The response you get from people does say a lot about them.
I'm a polite person and will chat to whoever approaches me, whether I fancy them or not. If a guy is plastered drunk where he can barely string a sentence together or is just being a bit of a dick then I will be a little cool but it would take a lot for me to tell a guy to piss off. Like I would have to have been insulted or be having a really bad day and the guy would have to lecherous.

If I wasn't interested I would usually tell the guy I had a boyfriend. I would never say I didn't fancy them. I might use the above line the girl used. It let's them down gently.

cantdecide

milli milli wrote: »

I have to say, this comment speaks volumes about the girl. She's obviously a mature, confident, well adjusted individual.
The response you get from people does say a lot about them.
I'm a polite person and will chat to whoever approaches me, whether I fancy them or not. If a guy is plastered drunk where he can barely string a sentence together or is just being a bit of a dick then I will be a little cool but it would take a lot for me to tell a guy to piss off. Like I would have to have been insulted or be having a really bad day and the guy would have to lecherous.

If I wasn't interested I would usually tell the guy I had a boyfriend. I would never say I didn't fancy them. I might use the above line the girl used. It let's them down gently.

Good for you. The 'I have a boyfriend' thing is fine too if youve been specifically asked for a dance or drink etc. If he has just said hello, then it is likely to be taken as PFO.

tallaghtmick

the way id like to be knocked back is for the woman to point me in the direction of a woman that would have me :pac:

PK2008

No one likes to be knocked back but a lot of guys make a bigger deal of it then it is.

Half the stories about girls insulting a guy whose just being nice are obviously one sided and I would guess tinged with a little bitterness. Even if the girl does tell you to pi55 off just take it like a man- she doesn't owe you anything.

You take a shot, if she doesn't want to know then just leave her alone, thats life.

Dudess

Raekwon wrote: »

That is true, but respect goes both ways, if women realised this and stopped boosting their own egos then we would all probably get along much better

Yes, respect goes both ways - that would include not making sweeping statements implying one gender has the monopoly on boosting their egos.

JohnMearsheimer

Just be nice and straight up about it. If you've no interest just say so.

I recently moved to Vancouver and met an English girl in a bar on my first night here. We got on great and the next day I asked her out and she said no. I thought fair enough, move on.

Two days later she asked me if I wanted to meet up with her, I did and we spent pretty much the whole of the last month together doing everything and anything. All our mutual friends thought we were together. Anyway, things were coming to a head and I told her how I felt, she told me she felt the same way......and then told me she had a boyfriend. We spoke about previous relationships we've had in the past but she never once mentioned she had a current boyfriend back in the UK. It's not like an opportunity to mention it didn't come up. I asked her why she didn't mention it and she said she thought I wouldn't want to be friends with her and that she'd ruin a good thing.

If she had been upfront from the beginning, what happened wouldn't have happened......and I wouldn't be a cranky bastard for the past few days.

Up-n-atom!

I'm usually pretty blunt about what I think, and it's been appreciated in the past - I've been thanked for my honesty (if that isn't a bit weird!). I don't play games, and that's best, esp when the person is like the last poster and the situation is a bit more developed than a one-off an approach in a bar or club.

Raekwon

Dudess wrote: »

Yes, respect goes both ways - that would include not making sweeping statements implying one gender has the monopoly on boosting their egos.

Accusing me of making sweeping statements in this thread is being both melodramatic and patronising. I think that most people would agree that the vast majority of men at least take the initiative in approaching the opposite sex. Agreed? Therefore men obviously get the most knock backs which would obviously mean that the opportunity for women to boost their egos by giving knock backs would be much greater? Right? It's elementary arithmetic

darragh16

Once she's not a bitch about it or when she leads you on for ages, you end up losing your mates for the night and its just like, "ah here!".

Just lie to me!

pragmatic1

PK2008 wrote: »

No one likes to be knocked back but a lot of guys make a bigger deal of it then it is.

Half the stories about girls insulting a guy whose just being nice are obviously one sided and I would guess tinged with a little bitterness. Even if the girl does tell you to pi55 off just take it like a man- she doesn't owe you anything.

You take a shot, if she doesn't want to know then just leave her alone, thats life.

Imagine its the girl doing the asking and the man is being blunt about it.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Be polite but don't flirt.

Elle Collins

milli milli wrote: »

I'm a polite person and will chat to whoever approaches me, whether I fancy them or not.

Well I wouldn't. There's no onus on me to chat to men I don't know.

If a man is polite to me in his approach I am polite in return, but what I have found amazing (and disturbing) about the way some men approch women in pubs/clubs is that many of them have an instantanious personality transplant the moment you make it clear that actually no, you're not about to fall on the flat of your back with your legs in the air for them.

Time after time I've encountered and witnessed drunken agression from men in these situations, so men, if you're wondering why some women are in the habit of being needlessly rude, it is highly likely that they will have encountered the same attitudes and are just waiting for you to morph into an agressive and unreasonable prick.

bobdole968

no time for love dr. jones

milli milli

I'm a polite person and will chat to whoever approaches me, whether I fancy them or not.

Elle Collins wrote: »

Well I wouldn't. There's no onus on me to chat to men I don't know.

So if a guy you weren't interested in approached you, you would completely ignore him?

HavingCrack

milli milli wrote: »

So if a guy you weren't interested in approached you, you would completely ignore him?

Nothing necessarily wrong with this either, it's not as if a woman owes anything to a strange (not meant in a bad way) man who just starts talking to her. If you're sitting on a train and someone starts talking to you and you just want to be left alone do you have to have a conversation with them? Clearly not.

Now is it rude to ignore someone who start's chatting to you? Yes and no depending on how they approach. Do you 'owe' them a conversation? Simple answer is no. They might consider you a rude, arrogant pri*k but that's irrelevant.

whiteonion

Swear at me, spit me in the face, throw your drink in my face, slap me. I can take anything you can throw at me and just laugh it off.

cantdecide

milli milli wrote: »

So if a guy you weren't interested in approached you, you would completely ignore him?

HavingCrack wrote: »

Nothing necessarily wrong with this either, it's not as if a woman owes anything to a strange (not meant in a bad way) man who just starts talking to her. If you're sitting on a train and someone starts talking to you and you just want to be left alone do you have to have a conversation with them? Clearly not.

Now is it rude to ignore someone who start's chatting to you? Yes and no depending on how they approach. Do you 'owe' them a conversation? Simple answer is no. They might consider you a rude, arrogant pri*k but that's irrelevant.

Few would disagree that that would be rude. If a lady were to initiate a conversation with a male stranger on a train and he flat out ignored her, well that would be rude, too. Male or female, manners are manners. I dislike poor manners when possessed by either gender.

TouchingVirus

HavingCrack wrote: »

Nothing necessarily wrong with this either, it's not as if a woman owes anything to a strange (not meant in a bad way) man who just starts talking to her. If you're sitting on a train and someone starts talking to you and you just want to be left alone do you have to have a conversation with them? Clearly not.

Now is it rude to ignore someone who start's chatting to you? Yes and no depending on how they approach. Do you 'owe' them a conversation? Simple answer is no. They might consider you a rude, arrogant pri*k but that's irrelevant.

You owe them a little common decency and manners if you ask me, even if it's just a "Sorry, I'd prefer to be left alone".

HavingCrack

cantdecide wrote: »

Few would disagree that that would be rude. If a lady were to initiate a conversation with a male stranger on a train and he flat out ignored her, well that would be rude, too. Male or female, manners are manners. I dislike poor manners when possessed by either gender.

I wouldn't disagree with you, just pointing out that you don't owe the person a conversation, whether it's rude or not.

TouchingVirus wrote: »

You owe them a little common decency and manners if you ask me, even if it's just a "Sorry, I'd prefer to be left alone".

Oh I'd agree there but just pointing out as regards men approaching women, if she says 'I'd prefer to be left alone', leave her alone, she doesn't owe him a conversation.

cantdecide

HavingCrack wrote: »

I wouldn't disagree with you, just pointing out that you don't owe the person a conversation, whether it's rude or not.


Oh I'd agree there but just pointing out as regards men approaching women, if she says 'I'd prefer to be left alone', leave her alone, she doesn't owe him a conversation.

Do you not think that all people owe each other a little respect and decency? If a door-to-door salesman calls, I'm not entitled to tell him get lost and slam the door in his face. I don't owe him anything either...

Logical Fallacy

Raekwon wrote: »

Accusing me of making sweeping statements in this thread is being both melodramatic and patronising. I think that most people would agree that the vast majority of men at least take the initiative in approaching the opposite sex. Agreed? Therefore men obviously get the most knock backs which would obviously mean that the opportunity for women to boost their egos by giving knock backs would be much greater? Right? It's elementary arithmetic

LoL, i would completely disagree. In my experience, over my damn near 30 years i have noticed most blokes don't have the balls to chat to a woman without being loaded up on pints or having express flirting permission from her filed in triplicate and double checked with at least 4 witnesses.

petebricquette

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

LoL, i would completely disagree. In my experience, over my damn near 30 years i have noticed most blokes don't have the balls to chat to a woman without being loaded up on pints or having express flirting permission from her filed in triplicate and double checked with at least 4 witnesses.

I dunno about that now; maybe in days gone by but if it's in a fairly decent setting with people in and around the same age as you I've found it's very easy to just strike up a conversation. Pints or no pints! Of course if there's a boyfriend around that's a whole other can of worms.

Then again, I've been off the market for a while so I'm no expert.

Elle Collins

milli milli wrote: »

So if a guy you weren't interested in approached you, you would completely ignore him?

Where did you get that idea from? When you were reading my post you must have missed the sentence that follows on from the one you highlighted:

"If a man is polite to me in his approach I am polite in return".

Raekwon

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

LoL, i would completely disagree. In my experience, over my damn near 30 years i have noticed most blokes don't have the balls to chat to a woman without being loaded up on pints or having express flirting permission from her filed in triplicate and double checked with at least 4 witnesses.

Well at least blokes actually DO something. If they just sat back like women do, fluttering their eyelids and giving off mixed signals, then nobody would ever get chatted up and threads like this wouldn't exist.

Maguined

Raekwon wrote: »

Well at least blokes actually DO something. If they just sat back like women do, fluttering their eyelids and giving off mixed signals, then nobody would ever get chatted up and threads like this wouldn't exist.

Nah there are plenty of women that approach guys, sure probably not as many as those that say they are too nervous and fear rejection so just sit back and pine for guys to approach them. If hypothetically men stopped approaching women, those women that do approach men would inspire and encourage the rest of the women to approach men and it would be considered "normal" for it to be done this way, then of course you would get plenty of men pining after women to approach them but being too afraid to approach women as its not "normal" anymore.

Raekwon

Maguined wrote: »

Nah there are plenty of women that approach guys, sure probably not as many as those that say they are too nervous and fear rejection so just sit back and pine for guys to approach them. If hypothetically men stopped approaching women, those women that do approach men would inspire and encourage the rest of the women to approach men and it would be considered "normal" for it to be done this way, then of course you would get plenty of men pining after women to approach them but being too afraid to approach women as its not "normal" anymore.

I like your logic even though I don't entirely agree with it.

In my experience the only women that approach guys are the ones that either absolutely know that they are onto a sure thing, want something (ie: free drinks, tickets to gig, etc, etc) or have the cushion of a boyfriend and are just after some friendly banter and/or flirting. It is very rare for a single girl to approach a guy with the goal of getting a date or a phone number, granted I've seen it happen in other countries but in Ireland it's about as rare as seen a solar eclipse. Which is actually really weird as women would technically have much greater success approaching guys then visa versa.

As for men sitting there pining for women to approach them, I know this was only a hypothetical scenario, but I doubt this would happen. Even if I guy was really shy and hesitant at making an approach at first, as some other poster already mention, he would get up some Dutch courage and approach her anyway.

cantdecide

Raekwon wrote: »

...or have the cushion of a boyfriend and are just after some friendly banter and/or flirting...

I would normally not entirely agree with this but just last week, a mate's GF stuck up a FB status rallying her girl pals for a night of 'dancing, drinking and harmless flirting'. I find this how-outrageous-am-I?! thing a bit vexatious.

Maguined

I don't know your age at all but it might be a generation thing. The times I have been approached it was normally from women below 30. They did not know me, none of them were looking for drinks etc off me and they certainly did not know they were onto a sure thing as they all were rejected as I was not single.

Plenty of men already sit and pine to a degree, I know plenty of guys that consider themselves "nice guys" and are always complaining about the types of guys that regularly get attention from women are "arrogant assholes that talk ****e", they complain because these types of guys while they can talk ****e are also going up and talking to any woman they want, while the nice guys sit back nervously and rarely approach a girl, and if they do get the courage to approach a girl and get rejected they huddle back to their corner to complain about the other guys again and how nice guys finish last and don't bother approaching any other girl for ages.

The above is a situation I see all the time, the "bad boy" types get rejected by plenty of women but don't let it bother them and move on, while the "nice guys" are nervous and insecure which comes across when they approach women, and don't take the rejection well.

Raekwon

I'll be 31 in a few weeks and I've been in a relationship for a few years now so maybe I'm losing touch with the dating scene but I've rarely seen women approach men over the years. Even when I was single I never really seen it happen. Okay you'd get women trying to getting themselves into a position to get chatted up but they actually making the initial approach was really rare.

Also as I've said in different countries it happens alot more as women seem to be less self concious and more assertive then they are here which actually makes them more approachable too funnily enough. In your own situation, maybe you are just ridiculously good looking and get more approaches then the average dude because women think that you are worth the risk?

Btw I know what you are saying in regards to the shy guys that moan when 'bad boy' types get women and they don't. But these shy guys still do the approaching, you said so yourself, even if when they do get knocked back they retreat back into their shell. At the end of the day they still showed initiative and courage that some women simply take for granted.

milli milli

I'm a polite person and will chat to whoever approaches me, whether I fancy them or not.

Originally Posted by Elle Collins ]
Well I wouldn't. There's no onus on me to chat to men I don't know.

So if a guy you weren't interested in approached you, you would completely ignore him?

Elle Collins wrote: »

Where did you get that idea from? When you were reading my post you must have missed the sentence that follows on from the one you highlighted:

"If a man is polite to me in his approach I am polite in return".

You directly responded to my question by saying "There's no onus on me to chat to men I don't know."
You say you will be polite if he's polite but you first said there was no onus on you to chat to men you don't know. It's either one thing or the other?

Maguined

Raekwon wrote: »

I'll be 31 in a few weeks and I've been in a relationship for a few years now so maybe I'm losing touch with the dating scene but I've rarely seen women approach men over the years. Even when I was single I never really seen it happen. Okay you'd get women trying to getting themselves into a position to get chatted up but they actually making the initial approach was really rare.

Also as I've said in different countries it happens alot more as women seem to be less self concious and more assertive then they are here which actually makes them more approachable too funnily enough. In your own situation, maybe you are just ridiculously good looking and get more approaches then the average dude because women think that you are worth the risk?

Btw I know what you are saying in regards to the shy guys that moan when 'bad boy' types get women and they don't. But these shy guys still do the approaching, you said so yourself, even if when they do get knocked back they retreat back into their shell. At the end of the day they still showed initiative and courage that some women simply take for granted.

I am definitely not good looking, I used to classify myself as a "nice guy" up till about 2 years ago, then I seriously just woke up one day and stopped caring about being nervous and fearing rejection around women, it has only been after this point that I have been approached by women. I am not even approaching women as I am not interested in starting anything but I believe this not caring and lack of nerves makes me project a feeling of security and calm confidence that has attracted these women rather than anything to do with looks.

True the "nice guys" do the approaching, but very little, they get knocked back and then are afraid to for the rest of the night, when they see some other "bad boy" guy go up to a girl and receive the attention they wanted they are ignoring the fact this "bad boy" probably approached plenty of other women during the night and got rejected but kept putting themselves out there and risking approaching girls until they found one that liked them back. I know one or two guys who actually even just play a percentages game, they approach every single girl they find remotely good looking, they will get rejected dozens of times in a night but they don't care as generally they will find someone that responds.

True in other cultures I have noticed women are more assertive to approach men and being approached however at the same time as was mentioned earlier these women probably get approached more often in a casual setting instead of the Irish scene of a drunken guy in a bar who is already half cut.

This does lead to a chicken and egg scenario of it more guys approached women sober and in a more casual enviroment women would probably be more relaxed and accepting of being approached and also on the other side if more women approached guys then men would not be as nervous of fearing rejection so would not need "dutch courage" and would probably approach women more relaxed and calm in the future.

However I am not expecting one entire gender to have to start first so it's down to individuals to act themselves, generally I have very little empathy for any man or woman who fearing rejection sit in their corners and pine and complain about a lack of attention but refuse to put themselves out there.

Raekwon

I get what you're saying and I agree with you for the most part but what it all boils down to is that fact that the Irish dating scene is systematically 'broken' (for lack of a better word). It seems for the most part that both men and women hide behind their fears and insecurities and when you add alcohol into the mix it just ends in tears most of the time. Hopefully the next couple of generations can evolve the Irish dating scene and totally rid all of the unnecessary awkwardness and pettiness that it's rife with today. Pretty much bring us up to speed with the rest of the world so to speak.

Maguined wrote: »

However I am not expecting one entire gender to have to start first so it's down to individuals to act themselves, generally I have very little empathy for any man or woman who fearing rejection sit in their corners and pine and complain about a lack of attention but refuse to put themselves out there.

True but all people are different, some are super confident extroverts and others are socially inept introverts, but I do agree that ALL people need to at the very least make some sort of an effort. That was my original point. I think it's really unfair that one gender sits back expecting the other to do all of the work and then in some cases even have the audacity to complain about it. I think in this modern day and age of gender equality alittle give and take wouldn't be too much to ask, would it?

Kimia

What about when you don't know if someone is chatting you up or not, you are then damned if you do and damned if you don't. Let's consider both positions:

a) a nice young man (but not my type) starts talking to me in a bar, I talk back and then after a while I say 'I'm sorry but I'm not interested'. He then says 'Jaysus get over yourself'

or

b) a nice young man (but not my type) starts talking to me in a bar, I talk back and say nothing until he asks me out. I say 'I'm sorry but I'm not interested'. He then says 'Jaysus why did you lead me on so?'

I've had both those happen to me. What is the answer!! When specifically do you say no without causing offence? I think the best answer I've heard so far is to casually drop a boyfriend into the conversation but I've done that too and been slagged for being 'too obvious' about it.

petebricquette

Kimia wrote: »

What about when you don't know if someone is chatting you up or not, you are then damned if you do and damned if you don't. Let's consider both positions:

a) a nice young man (but not my type) starts talking to me in a bar, I talk back and then after a while I say 'I'm sorry but I'm not interested'. He then says 'Jaysus get over yourself'

or

b) a nice young man (but not my type) starts talking to me in a bar, I talk back and say nothing until he asks me out. I say 'I'm sorry but I'm not interested'. He then says 'Jaysus why did you lead me on so?'

I've had both those happen to me. What is the answer!! When specifically do you say no without causing offence? I think the best answer I've heard so far is to casually drop a boyfriend into the conversation but I've done that too and been slagged for being 'too obvious' about it.

To be honest, there's no hard and fast rule for it. No two guys will have the same reaction whatever you say but name-dropping a boyfriend is always a good idea.

cantdecide

Mentioning a BF is beyond obvious. I'd say engage him if hes not being a nob and be friendly but neutral. Dont flirt (sounds obvious but seriously) I did suggest fobbing him off with a lame excuse like youre meeting old friends.

Maguined

Raekwon wrote: »

I get what you're saying and I agree with you for the most part but what it all boils down to is that fact that the Irish dating scene is systematically 'broken' (for lack of a better word). It seems for the most part that both men and women hide behind their fears and insecurities and when you add alcohol into the mix it just ends in tears most of the time. Hopefully the next couple of generations can evolve the Irish dating scene and totally rid all of the unnecessary awkwardness and pettiness that it's rife with today. Pretty much bring us up to speed with the rest of the world so to speak.

True but all people are different, some are super confident extroverts and others are socially inept introverts, but I do agree that ALL people need to at the very least make some sort of an effort. That was my original point. I think it's really unfair that one gender sits back expecting the other to do all of the work and then in some cases even have the audacity to complain about it. I think in this modern day and age of gender equality alittle give and take wouldn't be too much to ask, would it?

The Irish dating scene is not broken because there are no rules and laws, I fully agree with you that other societies may have a more relaxed and causal easy going dating scene but at the end of the day there are no rights when it comes to dating, no one is entitled to a fair and equal dating scene. If you are a genuinely nice guy and you approach a woman in a friendly and polite manner and she tells you to "go fcuk yourself!" your rights have not been violated, you have not been wronged, you have simply been spoken to rudely by someone you should now no longer want to interact with but you shouldn't care about what they did to you 5 seconds later.

Dating someone is not like applying for a job that you should not be discriminated against and the employer is obligated to give you a fair chance, it is completely at the discretion of the individual, there are zero entitlements what so ever. As such gender equality is not an issue, you cannot enforce gender equality in dating, where a woman has to approach X amount of men before she is allowed be approached by X other men.

If more women are sitting back and letting men approach them as they will not risk approaching them then they are at a disadvantage as far as I am concerned, they could be losing out on a lot of opportunities because they are not willing to do the approaching. It's basic maths, if I was in a bar/club and it is full of women, I have as many opportunities as there are women I am attracted to, sure I can get rejected tons of times but there is far greater a chance of finding someone compatible than there is for a woman sitting in the same bar/club who can be attracted to many men but waits for only those that approach her to see if she likes them and are compatible.