Coming to Australia? Don't leave your manners at home

Ozeire

[URL="ttp://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/coming-to-australia-dont-leave-your-manners-at-home-2547204.htm"][/URL]

Australia? Don't leave your manners at home

Saturday February 19 2011 - by Gary Malone

So, it looks as though the economic crisis is going to drive even more young Irish people to emigrate to Australia. Just this week it emerged the country has a huge need for construction workers to help rebuild after recent disastrous floods.

But before any of you set foot in this country, you might wish to hear some observations from an Irishman who has been living in Sydney for the last eight years and has had plenty of opportunity to study how his fellow countrymen behave abroad.

I'll be blunt: too many of you are an embarrassment.

Take the events of just one compact little evening. Late one night in December 2007, I was sitting reading a book in the lobby of a hotel in the pretty town of Katoomba in the Blue Mountains, New South Wales, when someone made three deafening attempts to penetrate the (obviously locked) front door.

When I opened it, I found myself facing a swaying Irishman who informed me that he was trying to "book a room". Eleven o'clock at night seemed an unusual time to undertake such a task, but then again the young man's scented breath confirmed that the pub had taken priority that evening over actually finding a place to stay.

It seemed only now to be dawning on him that he was about to become both drunk and vagrant. Naturally, I couldn't help him.

About two hours later, as I lay in bed, the quiet mountain air was shattered by the sound of screaming and foul language. When I went to the window I beheld an Irish girl with her bum jammed into a shopping-trolley repeatedly pumping the word f*ck into the air while her Irish boyfriend whirled her around in the middle of the road. Every guest sleeping at the front of the hotel would have been woken up by this racket.

Half an hour later, two other Irish people parked themselves on the low wall outside the hotel and (I am not making this up) proceeded to do impersonations of lowing cattle.

Other toe-curling examples come randomly to mind.

The Midnight Mass in my suburb, which was unsanctified by the row of drunken, giggling cailíní seated behind me who whispered admiringly throughout about each other's conquered sobriety.

The Irishman in a busy department store who thought nothing of bellowing at his friend from five aisles away.

The Irish couple in the apartment block beside me whose open window and nocturnal activities combined to turn the corridor between the two buildings into a kind of pornographic echo chamber (until one night my neighbour snapped and in mid-intimacy demanded that they shut their window).

The much-heard belch; the unheard-of "excuse me" ... I could go on and on.

It would be comforting to think that such behaviour is utterly atypical of the Irish, but could we even kid ourselves on this point? Conduct like this sticks out a mile in Australia, for Antipodeans are of a far more refined and well-mannered nature than their outdated larrikin image projects.

Australia is not merely a marvellous country because it is beach-bejewelled and sun-soaked: this nation has a sense of civic duty which you can feel in the air.

Its multiculturalism is remarkably successful; its people are genuinely friendly, bereft of cynicism and assiduously polite; and in August 2010 a Newsweek cover survey ranked Australia fourth-best country in the world overall. (I left Ireland when its economy was actually doing well; yet I knew almost from the first week here that I would drop anchor in Australia.)

So it's a source of particular embarrassment to this recently-naturalised Australian citizen to report that there's just one thing spoiling it: the Irish.

An Aussie taxi-driver, for example, once flatly informed me that he had stopped picking up fares in my suburb on Saturday nights owing to the sheer boorishness of Irish passengers. An Algerian taxi-driver I met used the word 'aggressive' to describe us.

A New Zealander friend of mine told me that he had been thinking of moving to Bondi, but he was deterred by the presence of Irish backpackers.

It is damningly indicative of how far the Irish reputation for yobbery has sunk into Sydney that its denizens could say this to an Irishman's face without the slightest fear of contradiction. And after all, how could I mount a defence? I would have to deny the evidence of my own senses.

T he depressing truth is this. A plague of recognisably Irish oafishness has descended upon Australian shores in recent years. Slovenly, unmannerly, ill-spoken, blissfully lacking in cultural curiosity, inveterately bibulous and incurably foul-mouthed, both sexes of young Irish people reaching Australia these days are a source of mortification to many of their fellow citizens.

Not being alone in behaving badly abroad is not an excuse. So please spare me the usual favourable comparisons with English soccer hooligans: if they're our starting point for a defence of Irish conduct, we're simply not being serious about this.

It gives me no pleasure to point all this out: yet I have done so because I can hold my tongue no longer. You can do better. So, if you are Irish and you are thinking of coming to Australia, the following is a modest list of Don'ts to get you started, all based on personal observations:

1. Don't begin a spoken sentence with the word "F***in' ... " or its variant "Ah sure f***in' ... ". These words were not cute even when they studded Roddy Doyle novels. Try the following experiment just once: remove all profanities from one of your sentences and see does this impair its clarity. You'll find that it doesn't.

2. A trip to the beach actually means reaching the sand at some point. It doesn't mean eight of you sitting around one of those dingy wooden shelters in Coogee while 20 green bottles pile up on the table in front of you. That's a notch away from wino territory, guys.

3. Guys: don't go out on a Saturday night wearing a GAA jersey. People will assume that this was the cleanest item you could find in your wardrobe. None of Sydney's hot women are going to sidle up to you in a bar and ask what Mhaigh Eo means. And if they really knew . . .

4. If you are holding a heavy shopping-bag in either hand and you need to cross the street, don't use the sole of your foot to press the pedestrian-crossing button. Kicking public fixtures in full view of everybody never endears, even if it's preceded by "Ah sure f***in' ... "

5. Try to actually get to know some Australians. Whenever one encounters Irish people in Sydney, they always seem to be exclusively hanging around other Irish people. Please don't reproduce the post-war ghettos of Manchester and London in Bondi and Bronte. To avoid habits that might make non-Irish people avoid you, see all of the above.

Final word? I grew up in a guesthouse on the coast of Clare. As a kid I met fascinating people of various nationalities every summer: I probably have Germans, Americans and Scandinavians to thank for instilling in me a lifelong curiosity about the world.

Yet my abiding memory is that one nationality predominated as a source of difficulties: the Irish. Every year, with numbing predictability, my mother coped with lavishly inconsiderate behaviour, primitive hygiene standards and belligerent rationales for not settling bills, the weakness of which would have offended the intelligence of a tulip.

So given this formative childhood experience, you can imagine this Irishman's dismay at having emigrated a generation later and found that even when I'm the foreigner in a land thousands of kilometres from home, there's still one dependable constant: the uncouthness of my fellow countrymen.

The author (aged 37) is from Co Clare and moved to Australia in 2002. He works in IT and is one of an estimated 300,000 Irish in Australia including 50,000 immigrants who listed Ireland as the country of their birth in the 2006 Census.

Taken from Article by Gary Malone - Irish Independent

His points

1. After years of using the F word and it meaning no harm its takes a while to go out of our system.

2. We really all don't go the beah to drink. It takes us a while to adjust to the weather and big yellow thing in the sky . But Yeah drinking and swimming isn't a good thing at all .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zUTMvbQrJw

3. The GAA jerseys is just the guy’s haven pride in where they come from and wanting others to know and nothing at all wrong with that. Ok every thing has its place. They look great on the footie pitch but on the beach or in a club don't look the best maybe but again no harm .

4. Doing the whole kicking stuff n the like is just trying to look cool to the mates and anyone else round everyone does it when your young not just the Irish.

5. This happens because if you go out in a group you generally do tend to hang round in that group just cause you're use to the lads. But from experience you get to know more people if you’re in a smaller group or on your own. But again not just Irish that hang on groups . It a friend thing . We all love to hang with out

As I say it all comes down to RESPCT.

RESPECT Australia - New Zealand and it's people and everyone will have a great time.

NotExactly

Ozeire wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zUTMvbQrJw

''Put your head almost in his arse'':eek::D

CiaranC

I would have thought if you went to Australia and carried on like that youd blend in perfectly with the ignorant, obnoxious locals

Ozeire

CiaranC wrote: »

I would have thought if you went to Australia and carried on like that youd blend in perfectly with the ignorant, obnoxious locals

Who is this directed at and please do explain what you mean ?

MyKeyG

GAA jerseys my $%&£. I don't think I've ever met a Kiwi not wearing an All Black shirt capable of swearing like a sailor, falling about the place drunk.

Yes people they come here and take full advantage of our social culture but God forbid we should bring it to their door the bloody hypocrites.

If the author wasn't so overly dramatic I might have believed it but alas this article to anybody with more than two brain cells in their head reflects a chip on his shoulder that goes far beyond his lies.

HardyBuckFan

lived in bondi junction for 3 months in 2008 and some of the irish there are a pure embarassment

whydoibother?

I agree with the article. I'm Irish, but have spent time in Australia. I think part of it is the age of the Irish that usually go. It's typically early 20something working holiday visa. This group see the main point of socializing as getting drunk. The more drunk you are, the more successful the night has been. Australians have a more balanced attitude to socializing and so these people stand out a mile. I don't think they're representative of all Irish people.

As to the point about there being nothing wrong in having pride in where you come from, well if you insist in dragging it up at every opportunity and trying to differentiate yourself based on nationality when mixing with others it will grate on people. It makes it seem like you don't want to integrate. I've met people from other countries who constantly bang on about where they're from and how great it is. It gets very boring. I smile politely and privately think well if it's so much better than here, why did you leave it? But I'll quicly add that I think Aussies in general really successfully embrace multiculturalism (more than we do here), but it takes an effort from both sides for multi-culturalism to work, and sadly the Irish don't do much.

Jumpy

CiaranC wrote: »

I would have thought if you went to Australia and carried on like that youd blend in perfectly with the ignorant, obnoxious locals

Pardon?

As I have always said. Aussies have a built in bull**** detector. You may have been a big fish where you came from, but that stuff doesnt carry in Australia and will be spotted a mile away.

Most of the Irish I know who came back from Australia and hated it, were ignorant fools who loved themselves a little too much. They were treated as such over there and subsequently hated it.
Those that are mature and respectful of others loved it over there and had a great time.

whydoibother?

Jumpy wrote: »

Pardon?

As I have always said. Aussies have a built in bull**** detector. You may have been a big fish where you came from, but that stuff doesnt carry in Australia and will be spotted a mile away.

Most of the Irish I know who came back from Australia and hated it, were ignorant fools who loved themselves a little too much. They were treated as such over there and subsequently hated it.
Those that are mature and respectful of others loved it over there and had a great time.

Yes, this exactly. Anyone who goes over there with a good attitude will get on very well there.

Ozeire

MyKeyG wrote: »

GAA jerseys my $%&£. I don't think I've ever met a Kiwi not wearing an All Black shirt capable of swearing like a sailor, falling about the place drunk.

Yes people they come here and take full advantage of our social culture but God forbid we should bring it to their door the bloody hypocrites.

I'm not saying that this guy’s story covers all Irish that would be stupid to generalise all Irish like that but there are a small majority. All I would say to all going to Oz n Nz is to enjoy your self and have the time of your lives but also remember being in a different country means that you will be judged on what you do. Which then means as bad and stupid as it is all Irish get judged on what you do .

fat__tony

I fully agree with that article.

I have noticed similar type of behaviour here in Toronto on the odd occasion which is why I mostly avoid the Irish here full stop.

Bubs99

I was in Australia for a few weeks last year with my Dad and cousin, visited my Uncle who moved there in the 70's.

I befriended LOADS of Australian people and have made the best of friends. I visited alot of Queensland and found that many Australian are actually very fond of the Irish and NOT the British.

Sometimes, we would be approached by strangers just because they could hear our Irish accents and we'd end up having a friendly chat.

I also found that Australians ADORE drinking almost as much as we do. I came across many alcoholics, regular drunks and the odd aggressive one too. They're just like us!

I am only 27 but i do see the point about the young backpackers that go straight for Bondi etc. To be honest, all the famous party places are'nt my scene. I see enough drunk Irish at home.

I had a great time and had no problems or negativity from the Australian or Newzealanders.

I was brought up to be polite and considerate. Im proud to show it too.

Ozeire

I think we all have to agree that this can't cover all Irish it's a small majority. That the idoits who act like this were acting like this in Ireland too . They just tend to stand out more in Oz n Nz

Jumpy

Ozeire wrote: »

I think we all have to agree that this can't cover all Irish it's a small majority. That the idoits who act like this we're acting like this in Ireland too . They just tend to stand out more in Oz n Nz

Agreed, I was stunned when I heard my first scummer couple shouting fight outside the window of my hotel when I first arrived in Ireland. I thought it was a once off but its fairly common.

Aussies dont do that. It brings the spiders down on you.

MyKeyG

Ozeire wrote: »

I'm not saying that this guy’s story covers all Irish that would be stupid to generalise all Irish like that but there are a small majority. All I would say to all going to Oz n Nz is to enjoy your self and have the time of your lives but also remember being in a different country means that you will be judged on what you do. Which then means as bad and stupid as it is all Irish get judged on what you do .

I understand that. I believe a country is like a home, if you're a guest you should behave but there is a certain latent hypocrisy in all this IMO.

Contrary to what the author claims (and I'm also from Clare) many people of different nationalities come here for the p*ss up and boy do they do it in style. The Irish and the excessive elements of our social culture (the drinking, singing etc) appear to be all well and good once it stays in Ireland. When it comes to their shores it's boorish behaviour.

It just seems to be getting to the point that we're the p*ss pot of the world, a place you can come to cut loose before returning to your own polite reserved existence. If Ireland had anything worth staying for economically I wonder how many of these antipodeans would hold fast to their sensibilities?

I don't condone the behaviour of these people but I do believe what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Jumpy

MyKeyG wrote: »

I understand that. I believe a country is like a home, if you're a guest you should behave but there is a certain latent hypocrisy in all this IMO.

Contrary to what the author claims (and I'm also from Clare) many people of different nationalities come here for the p*ss up and boy do they do it in style. The Irish and the excessive elements of our social culture (the drinking, singing etc) appear to be all well and good once it stays in Ireland. When it comes to their shores it's boorish behaviour.

It just seems to be getting to the point that we're the p*ss pot of the world, a place you can come to cut loose before returning to your own polite reserved existence. If Ireland had anything worth staying for economically I wonder how many of these antipodeans would hold fast to their sensibilities?

I don't condone the behaviour of these people but I do believe what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

I have been here 10 years and never once have I let loose to the detriment of others. Nor has any of the many other Aussies I know. There isnt really any Goose in your argument.

MyKeyG

Jumpy wrote: »

I have been here 10 years and never once have I let loose to the detriment of others. Nor has any of the many other Aussies I know. There isnt really any Goose in your argument.

Ah right I didn't realise your word and experience superceded mine, apologies :rolleyes: You're people aren't perfect buddy that's not to say they all indulge.

While the OP suggests that to claim the article speaks for all Irish abroad would be foolish the article itself almost expresses a loathing of the presence of all Irish in these countries not just a few.

CiaranC

Jumpy wrote: »

As I have always said. Aussies have a built in bull**** detector. You may have been a big fish where you came from, but that stuff doesnt carry in Australia and will be spotted a mile away.

What a load of nonsense. Just like this article. When young people go off to another country to live it up for a year they are loud and boisterous. Nationality is irrelevant. I spent a season in a ski resort in Canada which had thousands of Australian kids in it, they ran amok.

cnocbui

MyKeyG wrote: »

I understand that. I believe a country is like a home, if you're a guest you should behave but there is a certain latent hypocrisy in all this IMO.

Contrary to what the author claims (and I'm also from Clare) many people of different nationalities come here for the p*ss up and boy do they do it in style. The Irish and the excessive elements of our social culture (the drinking, singing etc) appear to be all well and good once it stays in Ireland. When it comes to their shores it's boorish behaviour.

It just seems to be getting to the point that we're the p*ss pot of the world, a place you can come to cut loose before returning to your own polite reserved existence. If Ireland had anything worth staying for economically I wonder how many of these antipodeans would hold fast to their sensibilities?

I don't condone the behaviour of these people but I do believe what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

I and my family have lived in Ireland for over a decade and have never caused anyone the slightest bother. I think your attitude speaks volumes.

The article is spot on.

Some years ago, my family went on a package skiing holiday in Italy. One evening my wife and I were woken at about 03:30 by very load drunken abusive shouting in the street outside our apartment as well as the sound of throwing up. It was a bit worse than the drunken carry-on we had been woken by on a couple previous mornings. It sounded like the verbal prelude to a fight. The sounds died away after a while then resumed upstairs in the building our apartment was in. Lots more shouting and then a lot of crashing and banging as if someone was trying to do some late night DIY. At the time I thought it must be coming from the apartment directly above us.

After a while there was more loudly shouted abusive swearing echoing in the building stairwell with more banging and carry on.

Every person in the building would have been woken and kept awake for the duration of the ruckus.

The next morning as we left the apartment we were shocked on entering the stairwell. There were extensive, long smears of blood along the walls, leading up the stairs and out of sight, as well as bloody trails along the floor. Not exactly what you or your young children want to see first thing in the morning.

The three Irish oiks who caused this were actually two floors above us. The police were called and the ski rep got involved and the building owner was very angry and upset. The police took their passports as there was hundreds of € worth of damage to their apartment and a costly cleanup of the building was needed.

We have been on many similar holidays and have never witnessed any behavior remotely like this from anyone.

Ozeire

cnocbui wrote: »

I and my family have lived in Ireland for over a decade and have never caused anyone the slightest bother. I think your attitude speaks volumes.

The article is spot on.

Some years ago, my family went on a package skiing holiday in Italy. One evening my wife and I were woken at about 03:30 by very load drunken abusive shouting in the street outside our apartment as well as the sound of throwing up. It was a bit worse than the drunken carry-on we had been woken by on a couple previous mornings. It sounded like the verbal prelude to a fight. The sounds died away after a while then resumed upstairs in the building our apartment was in. Lots more shouting and then a lot of crashing and banging as if someone was trying to do some late night DIY. At the time I thought it must be coming from the apartment directly above us.

After a while there was more loudly shouted abusive swearing echoing in the building stairwell with more banging and carry on.

Every person in the building would have been woken and kept awake for the duration of the ruckus.

The next morning as we left the apartment we were shocked on entering the stairwell. There were extensive, long smears of blood along the walls, leading up the stairs and out of sight, as well as bloody trails along the floor. Not exactly what you or your young children want to see first thing in the morning.

The three Irish oiks who caused this were actually two floors above us. The police were called and the ski rep got involved and the building owner was very angry and upset. The police took their passports as there was hundreds of € worth of damage to their apartment and a costly cleanup of the building was needed.

We have been on many similar holidays and have never witnessed any behavior remotely like this from anyone.

Yeah thats what i mean those 3 idoits actions probably mean that hotel have got the wrong idea of Irish . You get idoits like that in every cluture and not just Irish . They are in the minority but it's people like them that are giving the rest of us a bad name .

The majority of us never bother anyone and have a great time no matter where we are .

SSK

I think that it works both ways in fairness. There definitely is an strong yobbish element in a certain minority of Irish in Australia, particularly in parts of Sydney, and they do create a lot of trouble etc. for the locals.

However I've travelled Europe extensively and always found that Aussies on their Contiki tours are a constant source of noise and agro in hostels, bars etc. So for Aussies to get on their high horse about the Irish people who are essentially on holidays in Sydney is a little bit rich imo.

I'm not defending their actions for one minute and I have seen enough stuff in my time that has disgusted me, but I personally don't think we're much worse than any other nations travelers all over the world, and particularly in my experience, the Aussies themselves.

We probably tend to notice it more because we're Irish.

whydoibother?

Some countries are definitely worse for it than others though, and I think us Irish are fairly high up on the list of serial offenders. How many Germans backpackers get outrageously drunk and cause annoyance in large numbers on a regular basis in Australia or anywhere else? I haven't seen that too much.

super_furry

Sounds like they're trying to blend in with the locals. Australians aren't exactly reknowned for their manners.

mandrake04

Have to agree that only a minority of Irish people in Australia would fall into the muppet category, but that the majority of them would be living around the eastern suburbs (especially Bondi) where that reporter probably lives.

You just have to look at this forum where 95% of the posters are sensible and aware that they are guests in someone else country and try to do the right thing, of course there is always a few bad apples who have this "we are Irish and the rules do not apply to us" mentality and there is/was one member who on reading this thread would describe the reporter as another "self hating Irishman". Such people should be lambasted and dropped from a great height at every opportunity rather than spread their bad attitude on these forums to those that may follow.

To be fair I live in a suburb where the majority of residents are white Australian born citizens, and some of the young hooligans around there probably would not be much better once they got off the plane in another country. Has anyone been to Surfers during Schoolies???

I reckon the reporter is writing on his experiences over the last 8 years which is fairly long time and from a point of view of living in a very localised area with a high proportion of idiots (not all Irish though plenty of Scottish/brits as well) but looking at other such places in the world

Ibiza attracts the same loutish behaviour from the Poms
Tijuana attracts the Yanks
Bali attracts the Aussies
and unfortunately Bondi & St Kilda attracts the Paddies.

ballooba

This article resonates with me, two episodes come to mind:

Having a drink with the gf of a quiet evening in one of the bars in Queen St mall. A small group of Irish people decided to take over the bar with their obnoxious behaviour. It climaxed with a girl and a guy repeatedly jumping up in the air and chest bumping each other. They managed to knock a cola drink over an young asian girl in a pretty white dress who happened to be sitting nearby with a group of friends. They didn't think to apologise and when her boyfriend asked them to, they proceeded to intimidate him with their larger stature.

Another being in a small hotel in Potts Point and being awoken at 3am by the Irish couple next door. The female of which had too much to drink and was emotional. They proceeded to have a good auld barney for about 45 mins to an hour keeping everyone awake because she couldn't handle her drink.

I could probably list many other episodes which have made me ashamed to be Irish. Thankfully I've got a good bunch of Irish mates, who aren't afraid to tell each other when to cop on, and plenty of Aussie mates. I was in Surfers Paradise last night and got to see some of the worst Australians again first hand, sure we might have a contingent who stoop to this level but hopefully the majority aspire to better.

myhorse

While I often do feel abit embarrassed by some Irish behaviour it is only because they are my fellow country men (and women) and obviously pay closer attention.

In saying that the author, imho, is talking utter sh*t.

this nation has a sense of civic duty which you can feel in the air.

huh? wtf?

Its multiculturalism is remarkably successful; its people are genuinely friendly, bereft of cynicism and assiduously polite;

whaaa? has he been out west? has he travelled to the indigenous stations?
has he heard the abuse that anyone of a different colour gets at sporting events?
its been closer to a failure than a success. I cringe when I hear aussies talk about asians. Wont even start on the treatment of the aboriginals.
In all my years (way more than the authors) one thing I have always said is in the cities the lack of politeness is shocking. In Ireland you could start a conversation with a stranger at a bus stop, do that here and they think you are going to do stab them or worse. Saying please and thank you is a foreign concept as well.

It doesn't mean eight of you sitting around one of those dingy wooden shelters

dingy wooden shelters? whaaaaaa? What does he want bleedin' upholstered lounges. he's actually knocking something that's "very" australian there. Where would he prefer ? a nice wine bar maybe...

If you are holding a heavy shopping-bag in either hand and you need to cross the street, don't use the sole of your foot to press the pedestrian-crossing button. Kicking public fixtures in full view of everybody never endears, even if it's preceded by "Ah sure f***in' ...

In fairness he is spot on there. You can always tell the irish as they are the ones kicking the traffic light buttons (that and headbutting doors rather than pushing the door). Dear god is this lad right in the head

Please don't reproduce the post-war ghettos of Manchester and London in Bondi and Bronte

Oh he saves the best for last. No dont move to Bronte whatever you do. it was only voted the no.1 suburb in the whole of Sydney by the SMH. So **** no dont go there. Plus you only have one of the nicest beaches in the country.
And dont go to Bondi either. move out to the concrete jungles out west instead for a more unique Australian experience.

he is cherry picking incidents and making it sound like the norm. Poor very poor

I need some fresh air.

mise23

quote: 'In all my years (way more than the authors) one thing I have always said is in the cities the lack of politeness is shocking. In Ireland you could start a conversation with a stranger at a bus stop, do that here and they think you are going to do stab them or worse. Saying please and thank you is a foreign concept as well.'

In my experience you're more likely to get that kind of behaviour in Dublin than you would over here. Never met so many obnoxious rude p---ks as when I lived in Dublin. This was pre GFC so maybe they've learned manners since then.

MyKeyG

cnocbui wrote: »

I think your attitude speaks volumes.

To be honest I'm not sure what attitude you refer to or what you actually took from my expression. I'm perfectly entitled to fight my nations corner if I feel a generalisation is being made.

I've been to a lot of places, granted not to Oz or NZ, but all over Europe, The US and Canada and the Irish are generally loved and always welcome. There's at least one Irish pub in almost every major city and it's always the place to go. I was even in Malta last year in a town no bigger than Rathmines and they had an Irish pub packed with locals. I've been to Irish pubs in Rome, Brussels and Cannes that were hopping when all the bars around them were serving Espresso. It surprises me that it only seems to be in these two country's that the Irish decide to misbehave. The Irish have been flocking to The US for decades and have assimilated into the culture very well for the most part so why not Oz? In fact my cousin has been a cop in Sydney for two years.

As for my remarks concerning others coming to this country I wasn't picking on Antipodeans exclusively. Pay a visit to Temple Bar some Saturday night and see how our 'guests' conduct themselves. It's almost like they feel they're obliged to fall out of bars and start fights because 'hey it's Ireland'.

I refuse to accept that the Irish are the only people capable of rowdy behaviour. I recommend you watch a program called Brits abroad.

The article is spot on.

As I said if the article wasn't written with such generalised venom I might have given it some genuine consideration as to its veracity but it describes the Irish presence in these countries almost like a virus.

All this talk of a few Irish misbehaving giving the rest of us a bad name in the eyes of the hotel, the locals etc is ridiculous. If you're going to judge a nation on a few of it's more moronic 'ambassadors' then you're just simple. Like I said I've been all over and at no point did I witness the behaviour noted in these examples or that the locals had any issues with the Irish. I was in Paris last year and a man walked up to me saying 'You English?' I said 'no Irish' his face lit up and said 'Ah Irish very good, English no'. Then we had a chat in French. It got to a point where even the English people in our group were claiming to be Irish in the bars. And you don't get much more reserved than the French, I know I lived there.

IMO the article is a generalisation even if people on this thread claim it's not. It's very cleverly written as it uses examples that resonate with people so they agree with it without realising it's a generalisation. That's my main issue. At no point would I condone the behaviour of the people in the examples but this article targets the Irish as a whole.

Look maybe I'm a blinkered Paddy. I'm not trying to be unreasonable or offend anyone. We may be a garrulous, eccentric bunch and probably a bit too fond of the sup for our own good but I just can't help myself first of all defending what I think is one of the friendliest nations in the world (though we love to knock ourselves) and secondly promoting the value it's been to other countries. This article IMHO paints a pretty bad picture of the Irish in general. Knowing the aloofness of Australians I just wonder if the real nuisance is simply the Irish presence rather than their behaviour?

markymark21

MyKeyG wrote: »

To be honest I'm not sure what attitude you refer to or what you actually took from my expression. I'm perfectly entitled to fight my nations corner if I feel a generalisation is being made.

I've been to a lot of places, granted not to Oz or NZ, but all over Europe, The US and Canada and the Irish are generally loved and always welcome. There's at least one Irish pub in almost every major city and it's always the place to go. I was even in Malta last year in a town no bigger than Rathmines and they had an Irish pub packed with locals. I've been to Irish pubs in Rome, Brussels and Cannes that were hopping when all the bars around them were serving Espresso. It surprises me that it only seems to be in these two country's that the Irish decide to misbehave. The Irish have been flocking to The US for decades and have assimilated into the culture very well for the most part so why not Oz? In fact my cousin has been a cop in Sydney for two years.

As for my remarks concerning others coming to this country I wasn't picking on Antipodeans exclusively. Pay a visit to Temple Bar some Saturday night and see how our 'guests' conduct themselves. It's almost like they feel they're obliged to fall out of bars and start fights because 'hey it's Ireland'.

I refuse to accept that the Irish are the only people capable of rowdy behaviour. I recommend you watch a program called Brits abroad.
As I said if the article wasn't written with such generalised venom I might have given it some genuine consideration as to its veracity but it describes the Irish presence in these countries almost like a virus.

All this talk of a few Irish misbehaving giving the rest of us a bad name in the eyes of the hotel, the locals etc is ridiculous. If you're going to judge a nation on a few of it's more moronic 'ambassadors' then you're just simple. Like I said I've been all over and at no point did I witness the behaviour noted in these examples or that the locals had any issues with the Irish. I was in Paris last year and a man walked up to me saying 'You English?' I said 'no Irish' his face lit up and said 'Ah Irish very good, English no'. Then we had a chat in French. It got to a point where even the English people in our group were claiming to be Irish in the bars. And you don't get much more reserved than the French, I know I lived there.

IMO the article is a generalisation even if people on this thread claim it's not. It's very cleverly written as it uses examples that resonate with people so they agree with it without realising it's a generalisation. That's my main issue. At no point would I condone the behaviour of the people in the examples but this article targets the Irish as a whole.

Look maybe I'm a blinkered Paddy. I'm not trying to be unreasonable or offend anyone. We may be a garrulous, eccentric bunch and probably a bit too fond of the sup for our own good but I just can't help myself first of all defending what I think is one of the friendliest nations in the world (though we love to knock ourselves) and secondly promoting the value it's been to other countries. This article IMHO paints a pretty bad picture of the Irish in general. Knowing the aloofness of Australians I just wonder if the real nuisance is simply the Irish presence rather than their behaviour?

Spot on. However I do believe Ireland is a country of extremes in that we can be very hospitable and friendly but also completely out of order and stupid sometimes. Its the reason why people i'd say either love us or hate us depending on what experiences they have had.. The heavy drinking culture defo doesn't help as well.

I agree this article is a bit OTT though, seems like this guy has a real chip on his shoulder.

seachto7

Irish seem to love to pick out the negative about oursleves rather than the positives....

Just back from 3 weeks in Aus/NZ, and I do notice how much we swear compared to some Antipodeans. Plus, I did notice quite a few of a certain type of Irish around who you wouldn't see going to France or Italy, mainly due to linguistic and cultural shocks probably. But in general I only saw one fella with a GAA jersey on, and no way was he going to pull!!

I was with a group of Irish who travelled for a wedding, and we were very well received in Aus and NZ. (even though we swore a lot!).

Anyone notice the picture on the front of the Syndey Telegraph a few weeks back with "Is that all you got" after the first cyclone in QND? it was of 3 rednecks (the only way I could describe them), sitting drinking beer on a porch. It was an embarrassment. I would be embarrassed if I was a Queenslander of that picture...

I also notice how sh*t the television is in Australia. Tabloid television, that put a story of Brian McFadden getting chucked off a plane, as a news headline.

On the other hand, I noticed the majority of Sydneysiders come across as sophisticated, stylish, healthy, friendly. There's a great music scene there. The women in Sydney are stunning too. It's such a multicultural city, it's great. You can still spot the Paddys a mile off though....

The article writer kind of comes across as a bit bitter that there are so many Irish coming to Sydney to spoil his party. I know quite a few Irish lads living in Sydney who continue to describe the locals as arrogant. I haven't come across many arrogant Aussies while I was there, but try and talk to a kiwi about rugby......... (just call em bottlers, they won't like it!!)

Just back in Ireland, and I could see myself living in a city like Sydney. It seems to present great opportunities, but it's just too bloody hot. Give me the NZ climate any day. Pity there isn't any work there!!

I think you don't have to go around in a different country and broadcast where you are from or live up to the drunken stereotype. But a lot of people there in their early 20s will go out and get trashed drunk, simple as.

brendansmith

mise23 wrote: »

quote: 'In all my years (way more than the authors) one thing I have always said is in the cities the lack of politeness is shocking. In Ireland you could start a conversation with a stranger at a bus stop, do that here and they think you are going to do stab them or worse. Saying please and thank you is a foreign concept as well.'

In my experience you're more likely to get that kind of behaviour in Dublin than you would over here. Never met so many obnoxious rude p---ks as when I lived in Dublin. This was pre GFC so maybe they've learned manners since then.

Very true.
Many many times in Melbourne I held a door open for women coming behind me and they would strut through it without a thank you, a nod or even any acknowledgment whats so ever.

I stopped doing it tbh.

ballooba

seachto7 wrote: »

Anyone notice the picture on the front of the Syndey Telegraph a few weeks back with "Is that all you got" after the first cyclone in QND? it was of 3 rednecks (the only way I could describe them), sitting drinking beer on a porch. It was an embarrassment. I would be embarrassed if I was a Queenslander of that picture...

Just because bogans might be a little unrefined doesn't mean they don't have manners. They're not doing any harm by sitting on a porch drinking. It's not like they're having a few beers before heading out to Bondi Junction to destroy the peace.

hussey

Mod Lads I don't want this to turn into am Irish Bashing thread, or even an Australian bashing thread.

hussey

Any example I read here could easily be about Australians/Kiwis/English in Ireland too.

For most of us it will the first time we are living abroad, so people naturally want to 'have a good time', when this turns into muppetry is subject to opinion.

Also when people say 'all irish hang out with each other' - of course they do, why? Because it is so much easier, people naturally are more open and friendly to fellow travellers, when you land more than likely the only people you know are a) people from home (who in turn, know other people from home) or b) people in a hostel.

I have a good group of friends here, and a lot are Irish, we all have a few things in common, none of us have family here, no mortgage, no kids, all very social and live close to city. Most of the Aussie's I work with live an hour away so have a few after work drinks on friday, but wouldn't go out during the week or a saturday, which my Irish friends(and English, Dutch, Finnish etc etc) would.

A few times I've been introduced to a friend's friend and after an hour I would be invited to a BBQ / Birthday drinks etc, if this was back home I doubt this would happen.

Zambia

Your right no one has a barbie back home to invite you to:-)

Zambia

brendansmith wrote: »

I stopped doing it tbh.

You should start again if they do not acknowledge it they are rude, but your still a legend!

Mahatma coat

I dunno, tis not AS BIG a Problem in Brisbane as they dont seem to have coópted an area to the same extent as Bondi, but its the same wherever you are too to some extent, if the Persion was an ignorant Knownothin Prick before they Left IRekland then why would you expect any different, its the group that meet this Kreacher and think t'd be a right Laugh to ape the oafish behaviour that I have issue with, some of these Fools Truly dont know any better, they found a few quid somewhere and were cajoled by someone else into leaving the Parish to go to Australia.

How can they be expected to learn anything if people wont teach them, and the best way to teach is By Example, if you Give these Low brow Muppets any form of encouragement in their idiocy then thats what you will get, think of it as the class colown mentality, they will drag everyone down.

Replace the Words
Black People == Irish People
N!gger == Paddys/Knackers/Scummers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzFTLKWvfE0

Xavi6

The article speak a lot of truth, especially regarding the Irish just sticking to other Irish. I hate that and would love to see Perth's Rosie O'Grady's burn to the ground.

I also have zero desire to ever visit the Bondi area given what I've read and heard about the place.

Mellor

I think its alll a bit dramatic and sounds like a bit of a idiot.
In every country, every city, every town, amoung people of all ages, both sexes, all colours and races, you have nice people and you have pricks. not expecting this is naive.

He also has the locals up on a bit of a pedestal imo.
The aussies curse jsut as much, if not more, than the irish. Any time spend watching sports, in a pub and on a building site proves this. Obviously the author doesn't spend his time this way. C*nt is far more acceptable out here than it is at home.

Polite and friendly could describe some of the locals. But the sweeping generalisation that they are all like that is laughable. Even worse thean the suggestion that all irish are bad.

Some of my work collugues take a route to the train station that is awkward and longer, so that they avoid a paticular street/area. And its most definitely a case that they don't want to bump into the locals (and not the irish).

Successfully multi-cultural. no it isn't.
Yes, Australia is made up of many many nationalities. But this is simple due to the fact that Australia was a very big place with few people in it. They're was room for everyone.
But do they all get along, no even close. Race/nationality is prob the very first thing out of somebody mouth when they are pissed off at somebody. It's not fat prick, its not ugly prick, it's Leb/jewish/gook prick

Xavi6 wrote: »

The article speak a lot of truth, especially regarding the Irish just sticking to other Irish. I hate that and would love to see Perth's Rosie O'Grady's burn to the ground.
I also have zero desire to ever visit the Bondi area given what I've read and heard about the place.

This bit I don't understand.
If you don't like the idea of it, that's fine. Nobody is asking you to live like that. But some people enjoy the company of irish people more so that others. so, what's the harm if they choose to live like that. Some people like the sense of security a "community" can bring you. There exists an elitest attitude where people often think that they are better than you as they choose to only socialise with australians (not aimed at you btw Xavi). I just don't see how it really matters

I'm here with lads I've known my whole life so i'm not suddenly going to stop hanging around/drinking with them because I came to australia. I work with only australians, but they're mostly a lot older. So i would really see any of them in a solial setting (most of them have kids my age)

runway16

It cuts both ways.

Having been in Sydney, the GAA jersey wearing masses are prevalent - and yes, loud / obnoxious / uncouth. But there are plenty of pleasant, friendly Irish there too.

That said, many Australians seem to think nothing of insulting your nationality with such jibes as "where's your pig/cow/other farm animal". They seem to think nothing exists anywhere else, and that everything Australian is naturally superior (Its the Lucky Country!!!!)

Again, there are also lots of kind and non judgemental Aussies - but the overwhelming impression I took away from Sydney was one of unbelievable insularity and arrogance. No outward hostility, but a sort of contented smugness that matches some Irish People's view of themselves.

Perhaps that the problem - the Irish and the Aussies are too alike.

MyKeyG

runway16 wrote: »

Having been in Sydney, the GAA jersey wearing masses are prevalent

I didn't know it was that prevalent but to be honest I'm not sure if I've ever met a Kiwi not wearing an All Blacks jersey.

That said, many Australians seem to think nothing of insulting your nationality with such jibes as "where's your pig/cow/other farm animal". They seem to think nothing exists anywhere else, and that everything Australian is naturally superior (Its the Lucky Country!!!!)

I have noticed this. I've had a few, not a lot, of Aussie friends and their flippancy and offense at times was downright shocking so much so that I fell out with one and we're still not talking a year on.

Like the Mods said it shouldn't turn into a country bashing episode but maybe some people need to start accepting culture clash. I've been there myself. You're walking through Templebar, you're in a hurry but you can't swing a dead cat for all the european students. It's irritating so your mind exagerrates their behaviour and if one of them is being a genuine knob then you associate the behaviour with the lot. It's only when I lived in France that I learned how difficult it can be to be generalised like that.

BarryCreed

I have heard the "insular and arrogant" thing from people in Sydney too. I suppose the fact that all cities are so far apart in Aus, there is going to be some degree of being insular there...

What about Australians of European continental descent, like Italian, or Greek etc. Are they as "cocky" as your anglo saxon Aussies? Or do they cop some flack from the "locals" as well...?

I have met many Australian-Italians and they are great people. I lived in Italy, and they were proud of their heritage, and stoked that I was able to speak the lingo. I'm sure there is an Aus-Italian woman waiting for me in Melbourne or Fremantle!!

I know many Australian of Lebanese descent have had problems in Aus, but is this more to do with their religion?

Jumpy

BarryCreed wrote: »

What about Australians of European continental descent, like Italian, or Greek etc. Are they as "cocky" as your anglo saxon Aussies? Or do they cop some flack from the "locals" as well...?

Oh they are super cocky. Look up "Guido Hatzis" on youtube.

He is a prank phonecaller who rips off the Aus-Greek accent and the attitude

Jumpy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=domXumvTVI8

man1

Xavi6 wrote: »

I also have zero desire to ever visit the Bondi area given what I've read and heard about the place.

I have lived in Sydney for almost a year now and also have no desire to ever visit Bondi.
We go to Balmoral beach which is great for families, it is quiet, safe and easy for us to get to. I don't want to go somewhere to see Irish drunks falling about the place (which I have read about on here numerous times!!), If I wanted that lifestyle I would have stayed in Ireland.
I agree with the article, I don't have much contact with Irish here in Sydney but when I have, they have embarrassed me!!!:o
One example would be the U2 concert in December, why could the Australians enjoy the concert with a few beers and a laugh when the Irish totally got smashed, were puking up all over the place, screaming at the top of their voices, draped in tri-colours, fighting with security etc... and it wasn't one or two isolated incidents, it was happening a lot both inside and outside the stadium. I am dreading going to Tommy Tiernan in May!!!!!
Whenever my Australian friends say they met/know some Irish and want to introduce me to them, I politely decline their offer.
I previously lived in mainland Europe for 5 years and it was the same there.:(

man1

BarryCreed wrote: »

I know many Australian of Lebanese descent have had problems in Aus, but is this more to do with their religion?

For being Christian? Aren't they mostly Catholic/Orthodox with a Muslim minority?
I could be wrong though.

sydirish

here are my thoughts on this story:

true enough backpackers are here to have a good time, which involves drinking as well. all nationalities, not just irish,

A New Zealander friend of mine told me that he had been thinking of moving to Bondi, but he was deterred by the presence of Irish backpackers - so you know one person who was deterred by the packpackers, one? i know people who will not move out west because of the 'friendly' locals, but are people out west allowed to be like this because they are local?

2. A trip to the beach actually means reaching the sand at some point. It doesn't mean eight of you sitting around one of those dingy wooden shelters in Coogee while 20 green bottles pile up on the table in front of you. That's a notch away from wino territory, guys. - any time i have been in coogee or bondi, the 'dingy wooden shelters' & also the cooge bay hotel are mostly full of australians drinking during the day. are they allowed to do this because they are local?

3. Guys: don't go out on a Saturday night wearing a GAA jersey. People will assume that this was the cleanest item you could find in your wardrobe. None of Sydney's hot women are going to sidle up to you in a bar and ask what Mhaigh Eo means. And if they really knew . . . - i always see australian & NZ rugby jerseys on a night out, are they allowed to do this because they are local?

4. If you are holding a heavy shopping-bag in either hand and you need to cross the street, don't use the sole of your foot to press the pedestrian-crossing button. Kicking public fixtures in full view of everybody never endears, even if it's preceded by "Ah sure f***in' ... " - i personally have never seen this happen, but i am pretty sure that it would not be just the irish doing it

5. Try to actually get to know some Australians. Whenever one encounters Irish people in Sydney, they always seem to be exclusively hanging around other Irish people. Please don't reproduce the post-war ghettos of Manchester and London in Bondi and Bronte. To avoid habits that might make non-Irish people avoid you, see all of the above. - from my experience it is the backpackers who are only here for a year or two who just stick predominantly with other backapckers, not just their own nationality. the long term irish who settle here would be more inclined get to know the locals.

Final word? I grew up in a guesthouse on the coast of Clare. As a kid I met fascinating people of various nationalities every summer: I probably have Germans, Americans and Scandinavians to thank for instilling in me a lifelong curiosity about the world. - just how far is your head stuck up your own ar*e?


the irish are not angels over here, they like to enjoy themselves, get drunk and have some fun. they do not go around in groups bashing the locals, robbing people, ending up in prison. i personally did not drink as much back home, only when i came over here.

anyway, if anyone would like to comment on my thoughs, i will be checking regurlay for updates,

'com'n the town'

brendansmith

Funnily enough I was telling a Kiwi lad here I work with about lads on here asking if they will get visas with convictions etc and he ask me had I any convictions.
No I said
Really he said, you must lead a boring life
Says I, yes I guess I do. Go on so, what have you done you mental pr!ck
And so he began telling me about having 3 convictions. 1 in France, 1 in Canada and 1 in nz. 2 of which were for D&D behaviour and 1 for being way way over the limit whilst driving. He told me about overstaying visas by years and sneaking into countries without visas and all sorts of wonderful things.

Moral of the story. Folks away from home love to get up to boldness.

Xavi6

Mellor wrote: »

This bit I don't understand.
If you don't like the idea of it, that's fine. Nobody is asking you to live like that. But some people enjoy the company of irish people more so that others. so, what's the harm if they choose to live like that. Some people like the sense of security a "community" can bring you. There exists an elitest attitude where people often think that they are better than you as they choose to only socialise with australians (not aimed at you btw Xavi). I just don't see how it really matters

It's not about only associating with Australians, it's about getting out of your comfort zone and discovering a different country and people of varying backgrounds. Getting off a plane, going to the first Irish bar and staying there for the duration is ridiculous and it happens.

Also, I find the crowds in your typical Irish bar (i.e. Rosie's in Perth) to be largely **** and the sort of crowd who give the Irish a bad name in terms of the whole drunk and disorderly thing. For that reason I avoid the place like the plague and think we'd be better off without it.

I'm here with lads I've known my whole life so i'm not suddenly going to stop hanging around/drinking with them because I came to australia. I work with only australians, but they're mostly a lot older. So i would really see any of them in a solial setting (most of them have kids my age)

In fairness that's not what I said. Of course you aren't going to abandon your mates but by simply meeting other Irish people and confining yourself to them you might as well be at home.

BraziliaNZ

Go to the Redback or the Walkabout in West London and see how the Antipodeans behave when they're on their "Overseas Experience" as they like to call it. Even worse is The Church on a Sunday. As bad as or even worse than the Irish. In saying that I never went to Sydney but never noticed any Oirish thuggery in Perth or Melbourne.

Plus all the Antips live together in London too, and hang out in certain areas. I'm using London as an example as there's a large number of them there and not in Dublin. But they're guilty of the same carry on. All young people from cultures like ours seem to carry on like this when abroad. The author of that article needs to stop worry about how other people behave and learn to be comfortable with himself and his nationality.

brendansmith

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

In saying that I never went to Sydney but never noticed any Oirish thuggery in Perth or Melbourne.

You obviously stayed away from St Kilda then, I went to the elephant and wheelbarrow once and I felt instantly uncomfortable the moment I walked through the door and got my coat stolen for good measure.
Full of Irish, but not your regular Irish, the nasty type of Irish that fill up on rocket fuel and unleash themselves on the town.