ECSSA processing times

Plates

Hi all,

Hoping for some advice / guidance.

Firstly - are any of you members of ECSSA - and if so - can you let me know how long it typically takes for them to process a completion certificate? In other words - how long from when you submit to them - to when they submit to ESB Networks.

I called ECSSA and they said they typically process within 24 hours. My electrician (and builder) say that in their expreience it often takes a week.

The reason I'm asking is that the electrician working on my house - who is an ECSSA member - told me that he submitted a completion cert for my house 2 weeks ago. He now says it must have got lost in the post - and that he will have to issue a new cert. He made a big deal of the fact that he would incur a signifciant additional charge (that he would cover) to issue a new cert - as he would be charged for the old cert. When I asked him if he got charged the same amount for a cert that gets lost in the post, eaten by his dog or has tea spilled on it as he does for a processed cert he said yes.

I can't get my head around this. If these certs - even unprocessed are so valuable - why would you ever put them in the normal post? It's the equivalent of putting cash in an envelope and crossing your fingers that it gets to its destination.

So if anyone can shed any light on this and explain the process in simple terms (i.e. - how much is the physical cert, how much do ECSSA charge to process it etc) so I can understand it better it would be much appreciated. If anyone can also clear up whether or not a lost cert incurs a charge that would also help.

Thanks.

meercat

I think he is not being straight with you
Normally processed immediately
Certainly within 3 working days

By the way a new cert cost should be minimal (less 10 euro) if he is registered and has all tests already done

Something not quite right
Does the builder owe him money and he is holding cert until payment
These are tough times and I wouldn't blame him

Plates

Thanks meercat. Don't think it's an issue with builder owing electrician. Builder uses him almost exclusively in his jobs.

I know something is up - but I can't figure out what either of them have to gain in delaying finishing the job on my house. He's done about 90% of the work - and I've only paid him 75% of the contract value so far.

beanie10

Ecssa process a cert by close of business the day they receive it.The esb normally take 10 days to connect power. If the first cert was lost the only charge he incurs is a sur charge stamp and cost of a cert. He is lying to you but then again I never issue a cert until full payment is received
Ring esb networks and quote your mprn no. and ask what the story is

M cebee

he's prob waiting for money or electrical work isn't finished

Plates

beanie10 wrote: »

If the first cert was lost the only charge he incurs is a sur charge stamp and cost of a cert.

Do you know how much that cost would be - approximately?

beanie10 wrote: »

Ring esb networks and quote your mprn no. and ask what the story is.

I've rung ESB Nwtworks a few times - and they can't do anything until they receive the cert.

As it's a meter relocation rather than new conection - hopefully it will be less than 10 days wait.

Plates

M cebee wrote: »

he's prob waiting for money or electrical work isn't finished

That's something I'm suspicious of now. My assumption is that all sockets, light fittings etc have to be connected before it can be certified - am I right? There are 3 sandard external lights and an exernal security light that have been wired but not fitted.

beanie10

Every cable has to be terminated in connectors or a fitting before a cert can be issued, obviously your electrician either doesnt know or never has tested a house before which is very worrying for you. If he is not testing the house i wonder what other short cuts he is doing.
Around the €10 mark for cert,surcharge and post stamp.

M cebee

i wouldn't get carried away sparkie bashing beanie

you haven't seen the job

Plates

M cebee wrote: »

i wouldn't get carried away sparkie bashing beanie

you haven't seen the job

Let me know what additional info would be helpful - I've seen the job.

M cebee

id rather not thanks

it's not unknown for contractors to send in a cert early-at the request of a customer or builder

ESBN don't connect these days

Plates

M cebee wrote: »

id rather not thanks

it's not unknown for contractors to send in a cert early-at the request of a customer or builder

ESBN don't connect these days

ESBN still do meter relocations - which is the requirement for this job.

I wouldn't mid so much if he'd actually sent the cert in early - my problem is him trying to tell me that it must have got lost in the post - 24 hours after telling me he'd been speaking to ECSSA and they told him the cert was being processed.

M cebee

the contractor 'energizes' the installation

Plates

The contractor is a spoofer. He actually gives similar vague and waffly answers to you.

I can't understand why electricians have a bad reputation. :rolleyes:

M cebee

haha

beanie10

M cebee wrote: »

i wouldn't get carried away sparkie bashing beanie

you haven't seen the job

Have you seen the job????
Plates, he is obviously lying to you.I cant see why he would lie to you, if he is waiting on payment he should just say so, if its not ready for a cert he should tell you.
Maybe he has ran out of certs and is waiting on new ones. I cant see what he has to gain by lying to you.
You could ring ecssa and see is he still registered with them,maybe he let his insurance run out.

M cebee

no

but i didn't cast any aspersions

-you did,based on limited info:)

Plates

It all became clearer today. The electrician who did the work is not registered and is getting the work certified by another electrician who is certified. While it doesn't explain how they would benefit from telling me the cert got lost in the post (he serously expects me to believe that!) - it does explain why both builder and electrician have been so cagey.

meercat

Plates wrote: »

It all became clearer today. The electrician who did the work is not registered and is getting the work certified by another electrician who is certified. While it doesn't explain how they would benefit from telling me the cert got lost in the post (he serously expects me to believe that!) - it does explain why both builder and electrician have been so cagey.

that is against regulations

Plates

He did say that the certifying electrician did some of the work too - but I assume the certifiying electrician has to do all of the work - right?

M cebee

totally illegal

what are you going to do now

are you going to call ECSSA or leave well enough alone:)

meercat

Plates wrote: »

He did say that the certifying electrician did some of the work too - but I assume the certifiying electrician has to do all of the work - right?

who is getting paid for the work
who is employed by the builder
who will you claim off if things go wrong

Plates

meercat wrote: »

who is getting paid for the work - I'm paying builder - builder says he's paying guy that's certifying
who is employed by the builder - guy certifying
who will you claim off if things go wrong - the builder

I thought all this sort of sh*te had been weeded out by the recession!

M cebee

somehow, i doubt everybody is being paid by cheque here:pac:

meercat

"The reason I'm asking is that the electrician working on my house - who is an ECSSA member - told me that he submitted a completion cert for my house 2 weeks ago. He now says it must have got lost in the post - and that he will have to issue a new cert. He made a big deal of the fact that he would incur a signifciant additional charge (that he would cover) to issue a new cert - as he would be charged for the old cert. When I asked him if he got charged the same amount for a cert that gets lost in the post, eaten by his dog or has tea spilled on it as he does for a processed cert he said yes."


story changed from 1st post?

Plates

meercat wrote: »

story changed from 1st post?

Presume you're referring to me saying he was ECSSA registered? If so - that's what I was told at the time. Following some heated discussions it turns out he's not registered at all.

meercat

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056154203&page=2

similar to this thread
seems to be a regular occurrence
mercenary electrical contractors

beanie10

M cebee wrote: »

totally illegal

what are you going to do now

are you going to call ECSSA or leave well enough alone:)

Is sparky bashing allowed now???
Afaik if a certified electrician certs a job, whether he carried out the work or not, is legally responsible for the electrical installation.
Ecssa will test the house and cert for €250 app (i think) without carrying out the work.

meercat

Plates wrote: »

Presume you're referring to me saying he was ECSSA registered? If so - that's what I was told at the time. Following some heated discussions it turns out he's not registered at all.

not having a go at you
im just saying that the electrician never said that his helper was the contractor
why did he say he was
if i were me i would get eccsa out to inspect installation
tell the contractor that and see does he still certify it
somehow i doubt it

Plates

meercat wrote: »

not having a go at you
im just saying that the electrician never said that his helper was the contractor
why did he say he was

I've had no dealings with the certifying electrician - I didn't even know he existed until the "helper" (who told me he was ECCSA registered last week) and the builder told me about him today.

meercat

beanie10 wrote: »

Is sparky bashing allowed now???
Afaik if a certified electrician certs a job, whether he carried out the work or not, is legally responsible for the electrical installation.
Ecssa will test the house and cert for €250 app (i think) without carrying out the work.

beanie
it is not permissable to certify another electricians installation
only exceptional circumstances with specific instruction from the regulatory body

meercat

Plates wrote: »

I've had no dealings with the certifying electrician - I didn't even know he existed until the "helper" (who told me he was ECCSA registered last week) and the builder told me about him today.

if i were me i would get eccsa out to inspect installation
tell the contractor that and see does he still certify it
somehow i doubt it

meercat

http://ecssa.ie/modules.php?op=modload&name=Newsletter&file=preview&id=10

Suspension of Member
We can confirm that within the past month a member has been suspended for 6 months for giving a non-member a certificate for an installation not carried out by the member.
The directors have confirmed that,
1) An automatic suspension of 6 months will apply in future to any member for this offence.
2) Should the member commit a 2nd offence, then his membership will be terminated and with no facility to re-apply for membership at a future date.

quote this to him

086lavey

here we go again !!

beanie10

meercat wrote: »

beanie
it is not permissable to certify another electricians installation
only exceptional circumstances with specific instruction from the regulatory body

As an electrical contractor registered with ECSSA I had a house i wired certified by somone else. I was owed €6,000 no sign of it to come so i didnt connect heating or one kitchen light. I told the client when he pays me i will finish off and cert the house, to which he agreed.
I tried for 1 month to contact him to no avail so i paid him a visit only to see him in his new house cooking dinner! The cute fecker never intended to pay me got another contractor to finish off (for €200). House wired for €200 not bad.
I rang ECSSA to make a complaint, they couldnt do anything without mprn no. which the client wasnt going to give me.If I did have the mprn no. they could only repremand a fellow ECSSA member not others like RECI.
I learnt the hard way.

M cebee

really-they need an mprn number before they'll take a look?

also surely they'll pass on any info to reci -who'll then take action

i swear some guys actually believe it's allowed-to test and certify other people's work

the whole self-certification thing will have to be scrapped -the way it's gone

M cebee

i'm RECI myself for the last 16yrs(i'm thinking of packing it in)

am i wrong or is most of this buying certs going on with ecssa members?

meercat

beanie10 wrote: »

As an electrical contractor registered with ECSSA I had a house i wired certified by somone else. I was owed €6,000 no sign of it to come so i didnt connect heating or one kitchen light. I told the client when he pays me i will finish off and cert the house, to which he agreed.
I tried for 1 month to contact him to no avail so i paid him a visit only to see him in his new house cooking dinner! The cute fecker never intended to pay me got another contractor to finish off (for €200). House wired for €200 not bad.
I rang ECSSA to make a complaint, they couldnt do anything without mprn no. which the client wasnt going to give me.If I did have the mprn no. they could only repremand a fellow ECSSA member not others like RECI.
I learnt the hard way.

sorry for you an that score
you will always get a rogue contractor
they dont understand that in the long run they are affecting themselves
if ecssa treated me like that i would be over to reci sharp
surely the cer who regulate reci and ecssa would be interested in this
http://reci.ie/Portals/0/cer09109-cp3.pdf
(could only find the link on reci site)
it is completely against regulations to certify other contractors work and if ecssa didnt investigate or take action on your behalf you should take it further
i dont understand why a registered contractor would risk his reputation and certify another mans work anyway even if it were allowed.

mods sorry if we got sidetracked on the op question

M cebee

i'm amazed if that's true

surely they'll trace the rogue contractor from the customer name -


and take action

why would they need mprn

M cebee

times are hard now and the registered guy is competing against the non-registered guy(who is buying his cert illegally)


the customer is in cahoots most of the time as they're getting a better deal

meercat

M cebee wrote: »

i'm amazed if that's true

surely they'll trace the rogue contractor from the customer name -


and take action

why would they need mprn

i agree
why was no action taken
i wouldnt just let it go

"times are hard now and the registered guy is competing against the non-registered guy(who is buying his cert illegally)"

why would a registered contractor sell a cert to someone who is undercutting him
its madness

M cebee

esbn won't do anything without an mprn number-sure

reci and ecssa should be able to pull a cert and investigate easily if a contractor is 6k out of pocket

beanie10

The only way ECSSA could check who certified the house is if they have the mprn no., I gave them the name address etc but they say they cant check itn unless they have the mprn no.
If RECI contractor who certified it they reckon feck all can be done as RECI dont listen to ECSSA complaints, and vice versa i assume.
If it was an ECSSA contractor he would just be warned if its his first offence. I am in total disbelieve myself.
There needs to be more communication between ECSSA and RECI and less competition.
RECI did sent out a letter stating they got a request to certify the house from the client to which i replied with a solicitors letter stating the issue regards money.

Plates

Just to update - after a lot of verbal and written abuse from me to the builder and electrician - a new cert was sent to ECSSA on Monday and was processed and sent to ESB by 11am Tuesday. This is after both builder and electrician telling me it can take up to 7 days for a cert to be processed.

If there's one thing that makes me mad it's tradesmen trying to pull a fast one. Do they really believe people are that gullible?

beanie10

If you dont mind me asking why did you go with builder?

Plates

beanie10 wrote: »

If you dont mind me asking why did you go with builder?

He was recommended by someone I know. At the time of the recommendation they were only about halfway into their build and they were happy - but things started to go pear shaped for them towards the end - by which time he'd already started with us.

We were happy with the quality of work he had done on the 3 jobs that we visited (2 completed and 1 in progress). We also met the clients from those jobs and they gave very positive feedback. Maybe he guided us towards the only 3 people he didn't f**k around.

beanie10

Ask the electrician if somthing goes wrong whos insurance do you claim off, his or the contractors. And get it in writing.
I refer to a recent case involving a contractor and his employee. The employee wired a house which caught fire due to electrical fault. The employee told client to claim off contractor as he certified the house the contractor said to claim off employee as he wired it.I didnt hear the outcome.I heard it from an ECSSA inspector.

Plates

If anything goes wrong I'll be going after the builder - that's who my contract is with and that's who I'm paying.

beanie10

I suppose at least your covered that way.

Plates

Hopefully my last question on this. I presume I'm entitled to a copy of the completion certificate? Builder seems reluctant to provide this for some reason. I know it's been submitted and processed as I verified this with ESB Networks - but I haven't yet received the copy I think I'm entitled to.

meercat

yes you should receive a customer copy
the electrician should complete a post connection test and give it to you
ask for a copy of the test records also
if he has done the installation ,it is a requirement that he keeps a record of the tests he carried out
i would have no problem giving a copy to the client