vote for Fine Gael is a vote for stag hunting.

rccaulfield

Stag hunting and the blaspheme law make this country look like a backward state of gombeens. Labour have done a u-turn and have promised to oppose the reinstatement of the stag hunt should they be in coalition so hopefully fg won't get in on their own. 2 sidenotes, a muslim colleage of mine stated his government holds Irelands blaspheme law up as an example when imposing the laws of the koran toward homosexuals being murdered etc. and on the stag hunting front-the stag doesn't know its for fun.

Pal

Muslims :eek:

There was me worried about Shinners.

Seriously. I'm sure stag hunting is an issue for some people (and stags too) but I imagine the wider electorate has more pressing things to be concerned about. The country's not doing too well to say the least or hadn't you noticed ?

andrewire

More importantly, a vote for FG is a vote for Fianna Fáil but with a different name. Same retrograde social stances. This country not only needs economic reform but social reform. All this crisis happened because some people (i.e. bankers, politicians, developers and common people buying expensive houses they couldn't afford) thought their actions would be 'isolated' decisions without consequences. That's why we are now paying for the mistakes of everyone else. FG still thinks the Church should dictate how the country is run. I simply can't vote for any party that has ties to a religious institution.

Not to mention FG links with developers, bankers and other interests of the rich. People say 'oh, Labour has the support of the unions!' as if the unions were some sort of alien enemy. At least unions are formed by common people from the private and public sectors. What we are facing here is either a vote for the same old sh*t or a vote for change.

danbohan

rccaulfield wrote: »

Stag hunting and the blaspheme law make this country look like a backward state of gombeens. Labour have done a u-turn and have promised to oppose the reinstatement of the stag hunt should they be in coalition so hopefully fg won't get in on their own. 2 sidenotes, a muslim colleage of mine stated his government holds Irelands blaspheme law up as an example when imposing the laws of the koran toward homosexuals being murdered etc. and on the stag hunting front-the stag doesn't know its for fun.

maybe we can have a compromise and ban stag hunting in dublin only .

Worztron

Stag hunting should be completely banned. It is disgraceful.

andrewire

Pal wrote: »

Muslims :eek:

There was me worried about Shinners.

Seriously. I'm sure stag hunting is an issue for some people (and stags too) but I imagine the wider electorate has more pressing things to be concerned about. The country's not doing too well to say the least or hadn't you noticed ?

That's a simplistic view of things. It's not all about the economy and jobs. We need to ask parties about all issues so that when they are in power they don't come up with 'surprises'.

Tim Robbins

danbohan wrote: »

maybe we can have a compromise and ban stag hunting in dublin only .

The stag hunting is a good point and well made. The fianna fail comparison is lazy and absurd.

Regarding the stag hunting...

If I vote FG I'll clear my conscience by:
1. Opposing the bill when it comes along
2. Voting Green + Socialist Party in addition to FG.

Alan Shatter apparently used to be leader of the society of prevention of cruelty to animals so I am not so sure this is a fair acompli.

FG aren't perfect but they are miles ahead on the economy. If I could get back the money I lost and was able to donate it to the ISPCA it would do more for the stags.

Labour are getting closer to the Unions and looking increasingly scary.
They also have some crazy senior politicians...

Could you imagine their spokesperson on finance dealing with the IMF / EU?

Violafy

Anyone who indulges themselves in the so called "fun" of staghunting is cruel, selfish and barbaric. It needs to stay banned. Don't vote for FG!

dvpower

andrewire wrote: »

That's a simplistic view of things. It's not all about the economy and jobs.

If ever a phrase had to be resurrected it's now.

It's the economy, stupid

vaalea

vote green. people love to vote for the same old parties thinking they are going to get a CHANGE?! A real message to politicians is kicking old parties to the curb and seeing if a different party can breathe some fresh air into politics.
a vote for green IS a vote for the economy if any of you have been reading up on the economics.

Tim Robbins

Violafy wrote: »

Anyone who indulges themselves in the so called "fun" of staghunting is cruel, selfish and barbaric. It needs to stay banned. Don't vote for FG!

But do you not think it is weird Labour voted against the ban in the first place?

See here

Now they are acting all high and mighty.

I see no difference between Labour and FG on this issue.

bipedalhumanoid

Excellent. Nice to see one of the Green Party's idiotic policies, enacted by holding the government to ransom, being reversed. If only they'd do something about the carbon tax next.

Rosahane

This debate has been going on and on on Politics.ie. Same arguments by the antis, same limited number of people all the time. All sorts of irrelevent rubbish.

However it seems that they have established that there are a grand total of

...wait for it

61 Antis nationwide that cause all the fuss:P

I'd say FG are seriously worred by this level of drop in their support - 0.005%

Tim Robbins

The Green party on the only party to take a consistent moral stance on this issue. The Labour party are trying to claim moral high ground but they forget we can easily see all their members who voting against the ban.

http://www.rawr.ie/node/1320

I am with the Green Party on this.

But still inclined to look at FG as economically - they are miles ahead. The only party who look like they are not in bed with the unions for sure.

Tim Robbins

Rosahane wrote: »

This debate has been going on and on on Politics.ie. Same arguments by the antis, same limited number of people all the time. All sorts of irrelevent rubbish.

However it seems that they have established that there are a grand total of

...wait for it

61 Antis nationwide that cause all the fuss:P

I'd say FG are seriously worred by this level of drop in their support - 0.005%

Severely under estimated. It could mean they lose some close seats in Dublin. It depends how the media cover it and portray the cruelness of it. A lot of Dublin don't know much about it. But when they see it they are gob smacked how cruel it is. But they'd also be gob smacked if they saw the conditions all the chickens they eat live in.

bipedalhumanoid

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Severely under estimated. It could mean they lose some close seats in Dublin. It depends how the media cover it and portray the cruelness of it. A lot of Dublin don't know much about it. But when they see it they are gob smacked how cruel it is. But they'd also be gob smacked if they saw the conditions all the chickens they eat live in.

Animals aren't people.

wildswan

bipedalhumanoid wrote: »

Animals aren't people.

There's more chance of animals having all the feelings we do then there is of god existing.

FirstHundred

I think we should all dress up in lumberjack jackets and Davy Crockett hats and arm ourselves with Remingtons. Then we can release all the politicians naked in the woods and have a field day.

Seriously though, I understand that hunting and shooting involves a lot of skill and has a certain satisfaction associated with it. I don't think it's any more barbaric than eating frozen chicken fillets you bought in Tesco.

I would rather neither happened.

wildswan

FirstHundred wrote: »

I think we should all dress up in lumberjack jackets and Davy Crockett hats and arm ourselves with Remingtons. Then we can release all the politicians naked in the woods and have a field day.

Seriously though, I understand that hunting and shooting involves a lot of skill and has a certain satisfaction associated with it. I don't think it's any more barbaric than eating frozen chicken fillets you bought in Tesco.

I would rather neither happened.

+1

Seems to be a fairly even spread on that list across the parties. Gonna have to check the list for TDs in my area.

I'd rather these issues weren't even on the agenda when the country's on it's knees

takun

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Severely under estimated. It could mean they lose some close seats in Dublin. It depends how the media cover it and portray the cruelness of it. A lot of Dublin don't know much about it. But when they see it they are gob smacked how cruel it is. But they'd also be gob smacked if they saw the conditions all the chickens they eat live in.

There are people who are very exercised by these issues, to the point where it influences their lives and their vote. But that's a minority. For most people it's something they think about briefly when it's put under their nose, or in passing, but it really does not change anything they do.

Like the chicken thing. There have been umpteen documentaries and articles written about this, but intensively reared chickens are still walking off the shelves of urban supermarket. Most people who see the documentary on Wednesday, are appalled and to buy more carefully. They stick to their guns on Thursday. On Friday in the supermarket the free range chicken costs €10.99 and the (larger) standard one is on special offer at €4.99. They feel a bit guilty but buy the cheap one. By Saturday they have put the whole thing out of their mind and crack open a bottle of wine to enjoy with the chicken.

People don't always make the choices they like to think they might in their most idealistic moments. Most will go though life without ever seeing a stag, so it's not a make or break issue.

P. Breathnach

I doubt if more than a tiny portion of our population wants to see the resumption of stag hunting. What interests me is why FG make it a policy issue when most people are not very interested in it, and I suspect that of those who are really interested, there are more against its resumption than in favour of it.

My read is that a small number of people in the inner core of FG, perhaps only one or two, pushed for its inclusion in the manifesto, and they were not faced down. That's an approach to policy-making I dislike: an "inclusiveness" that means accommodating the demands of those on the fringes.

We are saying goodbye to a government where one of its (many) shortcomings was that it was played very effectively by people on the fringes. I don't want another government that behaves in the same way.

Cole

Tim Robbins wrote: »

But do you not think it is weird Labour voted against the ban in the first place?

I heard Eamon Gilmore say, in a Myles Dungan radio interview a couple of months ago, that he responded in "political kind" to the then government bill. I interpreted that as meaning that Labour voted against the bill because it was a FF/Green proposal, not based on any beliefs or principles that he or Labour have on animal welfare issues (I don't think they have any). They're utterly shameful imo.......as are Fine Gael for pledging to reverse the ban and for voting against the dog breeding bill.

I'm disappointed in the media for not grilling Labour and the likes of Alan Shatter (past champions of animal welfare issues) on their hypocrisy........regardless of it being an animal welfare issue btw, it's the blatant hypocrisy.

Rosahane wrote: »

This debate has been going on and on on Politics.ie. Same arguments by the antis, same limited number of people all the time. All sorts of irrelevent rubbish.

However it seems that they have established that there are a grand total of

...wait for it

61 Antis nationwide that cause all the fuss:P

I'd say FG are seriously worred by this level of drop in their support - 0.005%

I'm amazed that more of the electorate have not recognised how the behaviour around the stag hunting/dog breeding bills so clearly demonstrated the lack of any real principles amongst our national politicians (people who, in the past were animal welfare advocates, and then decide to vote against very necessary legislation.......with lame excuses as to why)

Again, regardless of the issue, was it not one of the most blatant examples of this?

I cannot understand why FG would bother to pledge to reverse a ban on one hunt, in one area of the country, affecting only a small number of people....oh hang on.....a small number, some of whom, are still wealthy and influential individuals?

Chucky the tree

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I doubt if more than a tiny portion of our population wants to see the resumption of stag hunting. What interests me is why FG make it a policy issue when most people are not very interested in it, and I suspect that of those who are really interested, there are more against its resumption than in favour of it.

My read is that a small number of people in the inner core of FG, perhaps only one or two, pushed for its inclusion in the manifesto, and they were not faced down. That's an approach to policy-making I dislike: an "inclusiveness" that means accommodating the demands of those on the fringes.

We are saying goodbye to a government where one of its (many) shortcomings was that it was played very effectively by people on the fringes. I don't want another government that behaves in the same way.

We are waving goodbye to a Government who rarely followed up on their election manifestos. While you might not like this policy I think FG should be given huge credit for putting it in when they probably realised it was going to them votes instead leaving it out and pushing it through anyway like a lot of political parties do.

FG seem far more trustworthy then other political party. I mean have flip flopped on so many issues this election that god only knows what they'll decide to do when in power. We could see Gilmore going to back to his far worker party roots.

Wolfe Tone

When it gets down to it, they are only stags. The steak you will have for dinner will probably have suffered more

P. Breathnach

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

When it gets down to it, they are only stags. The steak you will have for dinner will probably have suffered more

It almost certainly won't: farmers generally treat their livestock well, and don't take pleasure in terrorising them.

johnmcdnl

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

When it gets down to it, they are only stags. The steak you will have for dinner will probably have suffered more

how will the steak have suffered more???
From my experience on farms cattle are well looked after and virtually never ever suffer unless it's one of the tiny number of farmers out there who don't follow any regulations and leave their animals in squaller..

Can you tell us all how the average bullock would suffer before being slaughtered if the farmer is following all the regulations that are set out for farmers...

Ghost Estate

Its good to see a party willing to let go of some measures of social control.

Let people do what they want as much as they can; some like to hunt, some like to stay in their bedsit and read sites like Peta and get worked up over how cruel the world is.

galwayrush

Banning stag hunting, like all hunting will only drive it underground. Perhaps it would be better to change people's minds through education and kids might grow up to oppose it and the barbaric passtime will die out in time?

Violafy

Tim Robbins wrote: »

But do you not think it is weird Labour voted against the ban in the first place?

See here

Now they are acting all high and mighty.

I see no difference between Labour and FG on this issue.

True - and I'm not voting for Labour either. I don't trust them on this issue at all - particularly as I believe they said they supported the ban last year before actually voting against it on the day. Sinn Féin voted against the ban too.
I don't care if FG/Labour bring back the Celtic Tiger - I still won't support them if they want to allow such disgusting, outdated cruelty to happen. Bloody eejits! :mad::rolleyes:

Violafy

bipedalhumanoid wrote: »

Excellent. Nice to see one of the Green Party's idiotic policies, enacted by holding the government to ransom, being reversed. If only they'd do something about the carbon tax next.

The only idiotic thing I see about this thread/policy is you.

johngalway

1,2,3,4 FG for me

Repeal of the Stag Hunting ban is a bonus.

Labour were to get my 5th preference until Gilmore came out against repealing the ban, they can sod off now :pac:

There are plenty more important FF/Green policies that need reversing, but it's satisfying to see one agitated for mostly by an uninformed urban minority interfering in a rural activity get the spotlight, and for a change start heading in the correct direction!

RandolphEsq

Violafy wrote: »

True - and I'm not voting for Labour either. I don't trust them on this issue at all - particularly as I believe they said they supported the ban last year before actually voting against it on the day. Sinn Féin voted against the ban too.
I don't care if FG/Labour bring back the Celtic Tiger - I still won't support them if they want to allow such disgusting, outdated cruelty to happen. Bloody eejits! :mad::rolleyes:

But that's just like, your opinion man

telekon

Violafy wrote: »

True - and I'm not voting for Labour either. I don't trust them on this issue at all - particularly as I believe they said they supported the ban last year before actually voting against it on the day. Sinn Féin voted against the ban too.
I don't care if FG/Labour bring back the Celtic Tiger - I still won't support them if they want to allow such disgusting, outdated cruelty to happen. Bloody eejits! :mad::rolleyes:

Personally, I never want to see the Celtic Tiger years repeated in this country again.

Materialism was rampant, disgusting amounts of money were being bandied about while even basic manners went out the window as far as I could tell...it was Bertie's dream society.

I would much rather the sustainable economic growth of the mid 1990s under the rainbow coalition thanks...

Violafy

RandolphEsq wrote: »

But that's just like, your opinion man

Er, it's fact that staghunting is cruel, actually. It's my opinion not to vote for support any Party that endorses it.

Ghost Estate

Violafy wrote: »

Er, it's fact that staghunting is cruel, actually. It's my opinion not to vote for support any Party that endorses it.

there are a lot of things out there more cruel than stag hunting. even if it was brought back we're still a bunch of bleeding hearts when it comes to animal welfare

want a slice of monkey brain or fried dog by any chance? plenty of that (and more) to be got in other countries that we dare not criticise because all our cheap electronic entertainment stuff comes from there so we can stay in our apartments isolated in comfort from the real world.

Tim Robbins

bipedalhumanoid wrote: »

Animals aren't people.

Evolution my friend. We are cousins and sentient creatures..

liveline

I doubt that this policy will have much impact on FG's potential vote, either way. Ultimately people are more likely to vote on issues such as economic policy. Also, I suspect that FG will never actually reverse this ban and a lot of people would suspect the same. Nonetheless, it is disappointing that FG would be prepared to subject animals to needless cruelty in the search of votes from people that get a sick pleasure out of terrorising animals.

TippFan77

Rosahane wrote: »

This debate has been going on and on on Politics.ie. Same arguments by the antis, same limited number of people all the time. All sorts of irrelevent rubbish.

However it seems that they have established that there are a grand total of

...wait for it

61 Antis nationwide that cause all the fuss:P

I'd say FG are seriously worred by this level of drop in their support - 0.005%

Depends on what one means by "anti". Is anyone who opposes a given bloodsport and wants it banned an "anti"? Opinion polls say a big majority of the population hold that view, so that would make millions of antis.

TippFan77

Ghost Estate wrote: »

there are a lot of things out there more cruel than stag hunting. even if it was brought back we're still a bunch of bleeding hearts when it comes to animal welfare

want a slice of monkey brain or fried dog by any chance? plenty of that (and more) to be got in other countries that we dare not criticise because all our cheap electronic entertainment stuff comes from there so we can stay in our apartments isolated in comfort from the real world.

Never persuaded by this type of whataboutery that goes: Oh sure there's worse things happening in such a place...

The fact that massacres occur in Burma doesn't justify even one murder here...

The fact Bear baiting still happens in Pakistan doesn't justify stag hunting happening here.

Deal with the issue.

TippFan77

johngalway wrote: »

1,2,3,4 FG for me

Repeal of the Stag Hunting ban is a bonus.

Labour were to get my 5th preference until Gilmore came out against repealing the ban, they can sod off now :pac:

There are plenty more important FF/Green policies that need reversing, but it's satisfying to see one agitated for mostly by an uninformed urban minority interfering in a rural activity get the spotlight, and for a change start heading in the correct direction!

You're obviously not a stag then? If you were, I doubt you'd be happy about having to be terrorised for fun...chased until you drop from exhaustion, covered in blood and muck, tongue hanging out. Being on the receiving of the sick joke that is the "sport" of stag hunting aint nice.

Amtmann

johngalway wrote: »

There are plenty more important FF/Green policies that need reversing, but it's satisfying to see one agitated for mostly by an uninformed urban minority interfering in a rural activity get the spotlight, and for a change start heading in the correct direction!

I must disagree with you John. I'm also from a rural background and many members of my immediate and extended family keep greyhounds. I have seen, first hand unfortunately, what goes on with regard to the 'blooding' of dogs, and I have also seen the arrogance, destruction and cruelty wrought by fox-hunters, who also vandalise badger setts (which are protected under law) during their bouts of tally-hoing. This is not an urban-rural thing, but a matter of principle.

I don't think that coursing, fox-hunting or stag-hunting have any place in a modern society whether it be urban or rural, and I was very annoyed to read in FG's manifesto that the party will reverse the recent ban. However, my main concern in this election is the economy. For this and a host of other reasons I will vote FG regardless of their stance on stag-hunting. But I fully intend to lobby for change from within the party.

DWCommuter

Tremelo wrote: »

I must disagree with you John. I'm also from a rural background and many members of my immediate and extended family keep greyhounds. I have seen, first hand unfortunately, what goes on with regard to the 'blooding' of dogs, and I have also seen the arrogance, destruction and cruelty wrought by fox-hunters, who also vandalise badger setts (which are protected under law) during their bouts of tally-hoing. This is not an urban-rural thing, but a matter of principle.

I don't think that coursing, fox-hunting or stag-hunting have any place in a modern society whether it be urban or rural, and I was very annoyed to read in FG's manifesto that the party will reverse the recent ban. However, my main concern in this election is the economy. For this and a host of other reasons I will vote FG regardless of their stance on stag-hunting. But I fully intend to lobby for change from within the party.

Great to see someone vote on the basis of the more important matters and then look to achieve change in the less important matters. It frightens me to think people will vote on the basis of Stag Hunting.

P. Breathnach

DWCommuter wrote: »

... It frightens me to think people will vote on the basis of Stag Hunting.

If people should not vote on the basis of stag hunting, why should FG put a stag-hunting policy in its manifesto?

RandolphEsq

TippFan77 wrote: »

You're obviously not a stag then? If you were, I doubt you'd be happy about having to be terrorised for fun...chased until you drop from exhaustion, covered in blood and muck, tongue hanging out. Being on the receiving of the sick joke that is the "sport" of stag hunting aint nice.

Game, set and match: you just asked the poster to imagine he was a hunted stag, are you alright?

jimmycrackcorm

The only people who give a crap about stag hunting bans or not are statistically nobodies.

Reilly616

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

The only people who give a crap about stag hunting bans or not are statistically nobodies.

Source?

johngalway

Tremelo wrote: »

I don't think that coursing, fox-hunting or stag-hunting have any place in a modern society whether it be urban or rural, and I was very annoyed to read in FG's manifesto that the party will reverse the recent ban. However, my main concern in this election is the economy. For this and a host of other reasons I will vote FG regardless of their stance on stag-hunting. But I fully intend to lobby for change from within the party.

You don't think so. I do. If Sinn Fein were supporting the repeal, I wouldn't be voting for them. As I am already voting FG, I am happy to have a bonus like the prospect of a repeal. I, as a person living and working in a rural area, am happy that there is one party at least with the insight to realise that there are more and larger groups of people than the squeaky wheels Tippfan77 supports.

NO ONE, with anything to do with hunting or shooting believes the absolute lies from the "anti" groups which say that no other sport has anything to fear. Those people have agendas, they will not simply vanish once stag hunting is banned. Then it'll be coursing. Then it'll be hunting foxes with hounds. Then it'll be terriers. Then it'll be snaring. Then it'll be fishing. Then it'll be shooting. And so on.

It's extremely naive of those who support the squeaky wheels to think that those interested in hunting, shooting and other country side activities will stand idly by and be walked on.

bipedalhumanoid

wildswan wrote: »

There's more chance of animals having all the feelings we do then there is of god existing.

Wow how incredibly insightful. Can we have a round of applaus for captain obvious?

What other amazing insights do you have for us? Perhaps you can point out the sarcasm in this post?

bipedalhumanoid

Violafy wrote: »

The only idiotic thing I see about this thread/policy is you.

Awwww. I'm sure the greens will form a strong and influential part of the next Dail. Just like FFs last coalition partner.

bipedalhumanoid

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Evolution my friend. We are cousins and sentient creatures..

Yep Evolution. The cruel, uncaring force of nature that has resulted in the extinction of 99.9% of all species that have ever existed on this planet.

I'll give it some thought tonight over my juicy and tender veal steak. mmmm.

RandolphEsq

bipedalhumanoid wrote: »

Yep Evolution. The cruel, uncaring force of nature that has resulted in the extinction of 99.9% of all species that have ever existed on this planet.

I'll give it some thought tonight over my juicy and tender veal steak. mmmm.

Evolution is an unfeeling beast, I hope there is a party hoping to ban it