Gerry Adams, Leader of Opposition

Podge83

Following the opinion polls, if there is a FF/Lab coalition, which seems v likely, with the concentration of SF votes in areas, unlike FF's blanket support, surely this means that SF will be bigger than FF. In that case Gerry Adams will be leader of the opposition - that'll be interesting!

Any Thoughts??

almighty1

Good point. Even seeing Gerry Adams in the Dail will make interesting viewing in itself.

Will he definitely get a seat?

K-9

Podge83 wrote: »

Following the opinion polls, if there is a FF/Lab coalition, which seems v likely, with the concentration of SF votes in areas, unlike FF's blanket support, surely this means that SF will be bigger than FF. In that case Gerry Adams will be leader of the opposition - that'll be interesting!

Any Thoughts??

The concentration of votes could also work against SF, just giving them seats where they have higher profile candidates. Bad and all as FF will do, I'd be surprised they get less seats than SF.

PS. I take it you mean FG/Labour Government.

seamus

The independents could actually make up the largest opposition "group".

I would not be all too surprised if a new party emerged out of the elected independents - or FF manage to launch "New FF" by absorbing the most popular independents and ousting their rotten apples.

reprazant

almighty1 wrote: »

Good point. Even seeing Gerry Adams in the Dail will make interesting viewing in itself.

Will he definitely get a seat?

I know people who have been doing polls for different papers and they say that it is in no way definite.

I was surprised by it as I presumed that he would walk it but no, it looks like it might be a tight one for him.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

danbohan

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

did we have a credible alternative policy from the opposition when fianna fail were giving the blanket bank guarantees that has bankrupted this country ?

Podge83

Of Course, i Meant FG/ Labour!!!

Some polls have it tight for him - but it's a big possibility. Who would deputize, Marty Lou, Pearse???

GSF

Podge83 wrote: »

Who would deputize, Marty Lou, Pearse???

50% Marty Whelan; 50% Mary Lou :eek:

Phoenix Park

you're really gonna have to read back over these posts of yours Podge

EithneMasterson

Would hate to see Gerry adams get in...................we have had theives liars cheats wimps...................do we really need Murderer to the list

Lawrence1895

EithneMasterson wrote: »

Would hate to see Gerry adams get in...................we have had theives liars cheats wimps...................do we really need Murderer to the list

Is there any evidence, that Gerry Adams killed someone?

Is there any evidence, that Enda Kenny, Richard Bruton, etc. are not telling lies or would cheat, once they are in government?

Reilly616

EithneMasterson wrote: »

Would hate to see Gerry adams get in...................we have had theives liars cheats wimps...................do we really need Murderer to the list

Odd, I would have expected to have heard of Gerry Adams' conviction for murder. Could you point me in the direction of the case and let me know how many years of his life sentence he's served to date? Thanks.

Liam Byrne

seamus wrote: »

The independents could actually make up the largest opposition "group".

I would not be all too surprised if a new party emerged out of the elected independents - or FF manage to launch "New FF" by absorbing the most popular independents and ousting their rotten apples.

I can't see FF launching anything new or worthwhile, especially since one of Martin's first acts was to reinstate O'Dea.

The rotten apples will be kept on and promoted, as usual.

On the main topic, there is no guarantee that Adams will even be elected.

EithneMasterson

Reilly616 wrote: »

Odd, I would have expected to have heard of Gerry Adams' conviction for murder. Could you point me in the direction of the case and let me know how many years of his life sentence he's served to date? Thanks.

Gerry Adams.....................will let you suss that out yourself,

Ruire

Podge83 wrote: »

Following the opinion polls, if there is a FF/Lab coalition, which seems v likely, with the concentration of SF votes in areas, unlike FF's blanket support, surely this means that SF will be bigger than FF. In that case Gerry Adams will be leader of the opposition - that'll be interesting!

Any Thoughts??

It'll never happen. Thanks to SF's concentration of support, SF candidates will have to compete with each other for less seats in less constituencies while FF's wide spread of candidates will return the third-largest party in the Dáil.

EithneMasterson

Lars1916 wrote: »

Is there any evidence, that Gerry Adams killed someone?

Is there any evidence, that Enda Kenny, Richard Bruton, etc. are not telling lies or would cheat, once they are in government?

None at all I believe enda and the rest of them should be serving time along with adams

BORDS.IE

Podge83 wrote: »

Following the opinion polls, if there is a FF/Lab coalition, which seems v likely, with the concentration of SF votes in areas, unlike FF's blanket support, surely this means that SF will be bigger than FF. In that case Gerry Adams will be leader of the opposition - that'll be interesting!

Any Thoughts??

Q

Reilly616

EithneMasterson wrote: »

Gerry Adams.....................will let you suss that out yourself,

In other words, you have no reply, because you're wrong...

EithneMasterson

Well I would do my own leg work to see who would be running my country....................or do you believe in what you are told.......................like your Government for the last few years or maybe the bankers..........not me I would keep myself informed.

Not so simple as you deciding because you do not like an answer that the it is wrong............go on educate yourself.
Also let me add do not rely totally on links to find the truth

declan37

came across this today online,
really interesting esp at a time where about to gamble the fate of our country.


http://info-wars.org/2011/01/06/irish-leaders-castigated-as-greatest-traitors-of-all-time/

Anita M.

Strange that you hear no talk of the missing children of Ireland anymore nor of the abused children in the homes like Artane and Goldenbridge.

forfuxsake

I don't think many people in the Republic have taken the time to really consider what it must be like to grow up in a part of your own country which is under the macro-control of a foreign power and the micro-control of bigoted unionists who sought to take every basic human right from the indigenous Irish population.

How many of you can really say that if one of your teenaged relatives, a child of yours or a nephew, or a niece had been brutally slain and subsequently labelled a terrorist (Bloody Sunday, Ballymurphy) that you would not have responded with violence?

Gerry Adams may have controlled the IRA, may have ordered killings but he could have done much worse, he could have done nothing.

Bloody Sunday in Derry,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972)
Ballymurphy in Belfast, http://www.ballymurphymassacre.com/

I came across this article earlier, Please take the time to read it as comes from an English source but eloquently describes life in the North.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2001/nov/17/weekend7.weekend9

SafeSurfer

forfuxsake wrote: »

I don't think many people in the Republic have taken the time to really consider what it must be like to grow up in a part of your own country which is under the macro-control of a foreign power and the micro-control of bigoted unionists who sought to take every basic human right from the indigenous Irish population.

How many of you can really say that if one of your teenaged relatives, a child of yours or a nephew, or a niece had been brutally slain and subsequently labelled a terrorist (Bloody Sunday, Ballymurphy) that you would not have responded with violence?

Gerry Adams may have controlled the IRA, may have ordered killings but he could have done much worse, he could have done nothing.

Bloody Sunday in Derry,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972)
Ballymurphy in Belfast, http://www.ballymurphymassacre.com/

I came across this article earlier, Please take the time to read it as comes from an English source but eloquently describes life in the North.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2001/nov/17/weekend7.weekend9

John Hume didn't lead the IRA. Did he do nothing?

UpTheSlashers

EithneMasterson wrote: »

Would hate to see Gerry adams get in...................we have had theives liars cheats wimps...................do we really need Murderer to the list

Source please, when you're ready.

Reilly616

EithneMasterson wrote: »

Well I would do my own leg work to see who would be running my country....................or do you believe in what you are told.......................like your Government for the last few years or maybe the bankers..........not me I would keep myself informed.

Not so simple as you deciding because you do not like an answer that the it is wrong............go on educate yourself.
Also let me add do not rely totally on links to find the truth

:rolleyes:

A "murderer" is someone who has been proven guilty, by a court of law, of the crime of murder. You are proposing that Adams is a murderer. I am pointing out that you are wrong and cannot back up your claim by evidence.

Also, an elipsis is a series of three full stops. Go on, educate yourself!

hotmail.com

There's talk of Adams stepping aside in the next Dail to allow Pearse Doherty to take over the leadership of the party.

Whether that will happen or not is another thing - Adams has proven himself to be just like every politician in Ireland in one respect - ego maniac that loves the media limelight.

blahfckingblah

hotmail.com wrote: »

There's talk of Adams stepping aside in the next Dail to allow Pearse Doherty to take over the leadership of the party.

Whether that will happen or not is another thing - Adams has proven himself to be just like every politician in Ireland in one respect - ego maniac that loves the media limelight.

just wondering, where did you hear this??

Anita M.

EithneMasterson wrote: »

Would hate to see Gerry adams get in...................we have had theives liars cheats wimps...................do we really need Murderer to the list

We had murderers before. Forget ye not the distant past where wee little children were brutally worked to the bone and starved under the eye of the clergy...oh not so distant

forfuxsake

John Hume didn't lead the IRA. Did he do nothing?

No, on the contrary, he has done an amazing job and was fully deserving of his nobel prize. I think in the dirty world of Irish politics he alone can truly hold his head high and serve as an example to us all. I also doubt that his influence, his example, and his determination did not influence Gerry Adams in his moving SF away from armed struggle.

I

Tucker.Tim

UpTheSlashers wrote: »

Source please, when you're ready.

I love this attitude his defenders throw at you if you say what everyone and their dog knows. If Adams didn't do a sterling job covering his tracks do you think he would even be running for election? He'd be in a prison in the north or completely and utterly discredited. Asking for 'evidence' is a straw man at best.

This is the court of public opinion, not the law and the rules are different. People don't need to compile a Holmes-esque collection of forensic evidence to lay claim to Adams having done some very nefarious thing. Suck it up.

the groutch

seamus wrote: »

The independents could actually make up the largest opposition "group".

I would not be all too surprised if a new party emerged out of the elected independents - or FF manage to launch "New FF" by absorbing the most popular independents and ousting their rotten apples.

wouldnt surprise me to see some independents joining the ULA to make sure Joe Higgins gets to speak on their behalf during Leader's Questions

Hannibal

Tucker.Tim wrote: »

I love this attitude his defenders throw at you if you say what everyone and their dog knows. If Adams didn't do a sterling job covering his tracks do you think he would even be running for election? He'd be in a prison in the north or completely and utterly discredited. Asking for 'evidence' is a straw man at best.

This is the court of public opinion, not the law and the rules are different. People don't need to compile a Holmes-esque collection of forensic evidence to lay claim to Adams having done some very nefarious thing. Suck it up.

What does that say about the 71% of people in West Belfast who voted for Adams in the last elections?
Ask yourself this question, considering the situation in 1969 when the IRA split and the provisional movement formed. Do you think that there would be DUP and SF sharing power in the 6 counties? Adams deserves credit for how he brought the republican movement into government up north and not lot of people give him the credit he deserves. From day one he has been a fantastic politician and the people of Louth and Meath will show this in the ballot boxes next week when he's elected.
There's no evidence Adams was a member of the IRA for a reason, its because he wasn't. And the journo's who are so obsessed by this are frustrated that they can't find evidence so they keep producing articles full of "allegedly" and "believed to be" to try and prop their article up and influence gullible people who read it.

TT09

Dotsey wrote: »

What does that say about the 71% of people in West Belfast who voted for Adams in the last elections?
Ask yourself this question, considering the situation in 1969 when the IRA split and the provisional movement formed. Do you think that there would be DUP and SF sharing power in the 6 counties? Adams deserves credit for how he brought the republican movement into government up north and not lot of people give him the credit he deserves. From day one he has been a fantastic politician and the people of Louth and Meath will show this in the ballot boxes next week when he's elected.
There's no evidence Adams was a member of the IRA for a reason, its because he wasn't. And the journo's who are so obsessed by this are frustrated that they can't find evidence so they keep producing articles full of "allegedly" and "believed to be" to try and prop their article up and influence gullible people who read it.

Chin chin

Nehaxak

Tucker.Tim wrote: »

This is the court of public opinion, not the law and the rules are different. People don't need to compile a Holmes-esque collection of forensic evidence to lay claim to Adams having done some very nefarious thing. Suck it up.

The rule of law still applies to public opinion expressed in spoken or written form, just because you're sitting there in your underpants behind a computer tapping away on the keyboard in the belief you're anonymous and nobody will find out who you are or that you can't be held to account for what you say/write, is wrong and you'd be very naive to think otherwise.

Unless someone has proof that Gerry Adams ever murdered anyone, you or anyone else for that matter, have no right to say he did.
Telling a lie and then backing it up in essence by saying "so there, hah!" does not make it truthful either.

ballsymchugh

even though he's party president, would he ask caoimhin o'coalain to step aside as leader of the group in the dail? i doubt it for some reason, maybe when he brushes up on the workings of the '26 counties' he can take over.

Scotty #

almighty1 wrote:

Will he definitely get a seat?

Adams will win a seat - no question.

There is still a question though whether he is allowed take the seat or not. Under Irish law you cannot be a member of Parliament and the Dail. He has not (AFAIK) yet gone threw the hoops of properly resigning his seat at Westminster and is still a member of Parliament as far as they are concerned.

Incidentally the British do allow you hold a seat in the Dail and Parliament.

nesf

Reilly616 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

A "murderer" is someone who has been proven guilty, by a court of law, of the crime of murder. You are proposing that Adams is a murderer. I am pointing out that you are wrong and cannot back up your claim by evidence.

No, that'd be a convicted murderer. A murdered (word unqualified) just means someone who has killed another person on purpose.

Reilly616 wrote: »

, an elipsis is a series of three full stops. Go on, educate yourself!

Don't correct someone's grammar or punctuation please. Address their point etc.

nesf

Tucker.Tim wrote: »

I love this attitude his defenders throw at you if you say what everyone and their dog knows. If Adams didn't do a sterling job covering his tracks do you think he would even be running for election? He'd be in a prison in the north or completely and utterly discredited. Asking for 'evidence' is a straw man at best.

This is the court of public opinion, not the law and the rules are different. People don't need to compile a Holmes-esque collection of forensic evidence to lay claim to Adams having done some very nefarious thing. Suck it up.

This is not the case on this forum. At most you may say that Adams is suspected of being involved in murder, at most. Unless you are willing to provide evidence that he has been charged with murder in a court and convicted then please do not accuse him of being a murderer.

This isn't Joe Duffy, we actually expect people to back up their points here with more than just "their opinion".

nesf

Can this thread please get back on topic and discuss the possibility of a SF led Opposition and not continue being yet another thread about Gerry Adam's past. There are multiple other threads where you can discuss this topic and it's very much off-topic here.

Reilly616

nesf wrote: »

No, that'd be a convicted murderer. A murdered (word unqualified) just means someone who has killed another person on purpose.

No, murder is a very specific crime. One which nobody can be guilty of until they have been proved as such. Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat!

Wolfe Tone

I really hope this happens(its the main reason Im voting SF) they have consistently held the govt to account, I cite the by elections as a perfect example

nesf

Reilly616 wrote: »

No, murder is a very specific crime. One which nobody can be guilty of until they have been proved as such. Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat!

There is the crime of murder and the act of murder which are two different things. Similar to how someone can be said to be drink driving and that not meaning they've been convicted for drink driving.

phantom_lord

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Any other examples? I don't think taking a court case about a by-election you expect to win is really a great example of holding the government to account and surely they must have done more in all their years of opposition?

I think this is a much better measure of what is required from opposition:

Permabear wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

And it's so clearly not something Adams is capable of.

Wolfe Tone

Phantom, I think its pretty much a waste of time to go through this debate for what must be at least the third time between us, I think everyone knows where we stand, and while I would love to hear you slag off Gerry and his economics I don't really see the point when we have done it more than once already, Im sure we both know what each of us will say anyway.

phantom_lord

I just don't understand how you continue to espouse the man when you must surely realise that while he may share your republican views he's utterly incapable of the much more important duties required of an elected official in this country and certainly the utterly wrong person to lead an opposition. I actually don't think we've ever had this debate even once, as you seem to just avoid dealing with SFs lack of competency when it comes to actual policy.

Wolfe Tone

phantom_lord wrote: »

I just don't understand how you continue to espouse the man when you must surely realise that while he may share your republican views he's utterly incapable of the much more important duties required of an elected official in this country and certainly the utterly wrong person to lead an opposition. I actually don't think we've ever had this debate even once, as you seem to just avoid dealing with SFs lack of competency when it comes to actual policy.

Already its boiled down to "don't vote for Gerry" a debate we have had before, across multiple forums(louth and politics) my position has not changed.

Gerry Adams, one of the most accomplished men in politics is "incapable" of being a TD? Thats just pure rubbish

LordSutch

Reilly616 wrote: »

Odd, I would have expected to have heard of Gerry Adams' conviction for murder. Could you point me in the direction of the case and let me know how many years of his life sentence he's served to date? Thanks.

He may not have 'personally' murdered anybody, but he did more or less orchestrate the murders of over one thousand people - nice man Gerry :mad:

Sinn Fein/IRA what a lovely party to be associated with - NOT.

phantom_lord

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Already its boiled down to "don't vote for Gerry" a debate we have had before

I wouldn't consider it a debate, I point out how incompetent he is when it comes to the actual role he's going to be elected for while you just retort that he's a great man you like and trust. Feels like "debating" with a Bertie supporter in 2007.

Wolfe Tone

phantom_lord wrote: »

I wouldn't consider it a debate, I point out how incompetent he is when it comes to the actual role he's going to be elected for while you just retort that he's a great man you like and trust. Feels like "debating" with a Bertie supporter in 2007.

Ok, tell me how he is "incapable" of being a TD, considering we arent even discussing him being in govt now, tell me how he is incapable of being in opposition.

What, his economic ideas are mad? If you had your way would it just be right wing parties in the Dáil, maybe exclude everyone whose ideas you don't like from running?

bette

Reilly616 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

A "murderer" is someone who has been proven guilty, by a court of law, of the crime of murder. You are proposing that Adams is a murderer. I am pointing out that you are wrong and cannot back up your claim by evidence.

Also, an elipsis is a series of three full stops. Go on, educate yourself!

The elipsis can be typed with alt+0133 …