Passat Versus Avensis Versus Octavia

kippy

Well,
Its come time to change the car due to an expanding family.
Will be selling privately the car we have and we intend to get one of the above,
diesel, 2008 preferably.

I had my mind set on the Octavia however on talking with certain people the Avensis and Passat were mentioned as the better cars.
I'm still leaning towards the octavia but just wondered about a few key aspects of each model.
What are the running costs of each model? How much would a standard service cost in general/a major service?
Whats the timing belt change interval in each of them, rough costs?
Any major parts that need to be changed/have issues?
The octavia appears to be the best MPG and based on the reviews here it does look like a very good car but it does seem possible to get passats/avensis in or around the same price.

Any advice appreciated,
Kippy

murphyebass

In before the "Buy the Octavia as it has a big boot" comment

colm_mcm

As far as the avensis goes here are some key points:

125hp standard
6 speed standard
9 airbags standard (including knee airbag)
VSC, TRC, and brake assist standard
8 speaker mp3 stereo with wheel controls standard

Strata adds to aura: (+1k new)
Alloys
Fogs
Rear electric windows

Luna adds to strata (+2k new)
Cruise control
Leather gearknob and wheel
Passenger height adjust
Electric lumbar adjust
Nicer seats
Dual climate control
Heated mirrors
Electrochromatic mirror
Front armrest
Electric fold mirrors
Body coloured sills
Rear 12v armrest

Think that's about it.

Good colours
Platinum
Solar red
Lunar silver


Bad colours
Amethyst blue
Night sky black
Brocade red
Polar white
Fir green


Tax is €302 on all 2.0 D-4D models
Bigger than the octavia, but boot is smaller.
Only liftback or estate spec available in irish model is base model.

colm_mcm

Them be the specs, at the time, the cheapest toyota to get standard rear electrics was the rav4, pretty sure that's still the case unless the base model verso has now, auris, corolla, urban cruiser, yaris, aygo certainly don't.

Tea 1000

The Passat and Avensis are both bigger than the Octavia, both a class up and feel it too. I'd drop the Octavia from your list and add the Superb to be honest, that's the direct competitor to the other two.

Hal1

The Superb is very nice and I would pick one over the other two cars mentioned, serious bus.

kippy

Cheers for the advice so far lads.
Not sure about the Superb to be honest.

Just wondering what the story is with timing belts on these cars/cost of service etc.

colm_mcm

Avensis is timing chain

-Corkie-

08 old model Avensis is a horrible boring car IMO.

colm_mcm

Passat and superb are hardly residents of excitementville either,
There's more to a family saloon than being titillated by fake air scoops, big wheels or fashion styling.
If you're after hassle free, safe driving, then the avensis is right up there.

Alternatives like 407, Mondeo etc are all dull as ditchwater compared to less practical forms of transport, most families wouldn't stop into Mondello for a few laps if they're passing Naas.
Family diesel saloon cars are boring, they've always been boring. If you want excitement go hanggliding.

-Corkie-

colm_mcm wrote: »

Passat and superb are hardly residents of excitementville either,
There's more to a family saloon than being titillated by fake air scoops, big wheels or fashion styling.
If you're after hassle free, safe driving, then the avensis is right up there.

Alternatives like 407, Mondeo etc are all dull as ditchwater compared to less practical forms of transport, most families wouldn't stop into Mondello for a few laps if they're passing Naas.
Family diesel saloon cars are boring, they've always been boring. If you want excitement go hanggliding.

I suppose. Allthough the Superb has a few toys compared to the Avensis. I totally agree with you on the 407.

kyote00

The tax on avensis 2.0 d4d is €156.

colm_mcm wrote: »

Passat and superb are hardly residents of excitementville either,
There's more to a family saloon than being titillated by fake air scoops, big wheels or fashion styling.
If you're after hassle free, safe driving, then the avensis is right up there.

Alternatives like 407, Mondeo etc are all dull as ditchwater compared to less practical forms of transport, most families wouldn't stop into Mondello for a few laps if they're passing Naas.
Family diesel saloon cars are boring, they've always been boring. If you want excitement go hanggliding.

TonyM.

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=201102200836835

Volvo s40 or s60 upmarket classy and you get all the toys .

-Corkie-

TonyM. wrote: »

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=201102200836835

Volvo s40 or s60 upmarket classy and you get all the toys .

OP wants a diesel...

kippy

colm_mcm wrote: »

Passat and superb are hardly residents of excitementville either,
There's more to a family saloon than being titillated by fake air scoops, big wheels or fashion styling.
If you're after hassle free, safe driving, then the avensis is right up there.

Alternatives like 407, Mondeo etc are all dull as ditchwater compared to less practical forms of transport, most families wouldn't stop into Mondello for a few laps if they're passing Naas.
Family diesel saloon cars are boring, they've always been boring. If you want excitement go hanggliding.

Hi Colm,
Yep,
This purchase is based on:
1. Running Costs.
2. Practicality.
3. Purchase price.

Cheers for all the details on the Avensis.

TonyM.

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=201102200853294

sorry 1.6D LOW MILEAGE CLEAN CAR.

colm_mcm

kyote00 wrote: »

The tax on avensis 2.0 d4d is €156.

Please do some research before correcting people. I sold them for 5 years, I'd know :-)

Tax on 08 was €302
Tax on current model is €156

kippy

colm_mcm wrote: »

As far as the avensis goes here are some key points:

125hp standard
6 speed standard
9 airbags standard (including knee airbag)
VSC, TRC, and brake assist standard
8 speaker mp3 stereo with wheel controls standard

Strata adds to aura: (+1k new)
Alloys
Fogs
Rear electric windows

Luna adds to strata (+2k new)
Cruise control
Leather gearknob and wheel
Passenger height adjust
Electric lumbar adjust
Nicer seats
Dual climate control
Heated mirrors
Electrochromatic mirror
Front armrest
Electric fold mirrors
Body coloured sills
Rear 12v armrest

Think that's about it.

Good colours
Platinum
Solar red
Lunar silver


Bad colours
Amethyst blue
Night sky black
Brocade red
Polar white
Fir green


Tax is €302 on all 2.0 D-4D models
Bigger than the octavia, but boot is smaller.
Only liftback or estate spec available in irish model is base model.

Hi Colm,
Havent been serious enough about this for the past few weeks and back on it again.
Herself appears to like the Avensis in a big way so it looks like thats where were are going.
The fuel economy is roughly 61 MPG according to the toyota specs - whats the more average economy and how big is the tank on the avensis?
What would servicing costs be like?
We're gonna go with a 08 model I think and trying to get a mid spec one with low mileage is tough enough.
Cheers for any help.

colm_mcm

The tank is 60 litres, 61 is the quoted extra urban mpg, I never got that much!

kippy

colm_mcm wrote: »

The tank is 60 litres, 61 is the quoted extra urban mpg, I never got that much!

Cheers Colm,
Do services cost much more than a standard service?

I dont think anyone gets near the quoted MPG in fairness.
I expect the main reason there is a lot (in my estimation) of mileage on them in general is that they are a decent fleet car..

K.O.Kiki

Family man?

Get a Skoda Octavia estate, my good man.

Damien360

Sorry of this is hijacking this a bit but why is the avensis diesel estate only sold in base models in ireland with those same awful seats that are in my avensis (07 last shape). That has to be my only gripe with the car. Yes it is boring but god is it reliable.

All other manufacturers are offering higher specs along with bog specs in their cars and the majority are diesel also.

Leonard Hofstadter

Good lord we don't exactly have the most inspiring list of cars here now, do we:D?

What's so bad about the Mondeo or the Insignia that they are not being included OP? They're only the two best cars in the class.

Both are light years ahead of anything listed here so far - especially the Toyota which excels in being such an emotionless way of moving people around - I think paint drying may actually be more exciting!

kippy

captainspeed wrote: »

Good lord we don't exactly have the most inspiring list of cars here now, do we:D?

What's so bad about the Mondeo or the Insignia that they are not being included OP? They're only the two best cars in the class.

Both are light years ahead of anything listed here so far - especially the Toyota which excels in being such an emotionless way of moving people around - I think paint drying may actually be more exciting!

These are my criteria:
This purchase is based on:
1. Running Costs.
2. Practicality.
3. Purchase price.

How does the Mondeo or Insignia fit in?

whizbang

take a drive in a diesel mondeo and realise how much physical hard work is involved, compared to any of the competition.
Getting it moving off from stop is impossible to do smoothly/reliably every time- driving in traffic is physical and mental hard work.
however there is one redeeming feature: you will never run out of juice, because you are constantly checking the dash, wondering about that crappy engine management system...(rant over)

bazz26

captainspeed wrote: »

Good lord we don't exactly have the most inspiring list of cars here now, do we:D?

What's so bad about the Mondeo or the Insignia that they are not being included OP? They're only the two best cars in the class.

Both are light years ahead of anything listed here so far - especially the Toyota which excels in being such an emotionless way of moving people around - I think paint drying may actually be more exciting!

The OP is looking at a 08 model which means his price range would only get him a 1.8 TDCi engined Mondeo of similar vintage. The Mondeo can be the best handling "family" saloon/hatch in the world but it means sweat feck all with that pi$$ poor engine under the bonnet. 2.0 TDCi is alot rarer and cost more.

That would also rule out the Insignia as they only came out in 2009 and again would be outside the OP price range based on what he is looking at. All Opel would have to offer for similar money is the dire Vectra, ok 1.9 CDTi engine would be good but hand on your heart could you really say that a Vectra is a better alternative than an Avensis of that vintage?

kermitpwee

captainspeed wrote: »

Good lord we don't exactly have the most inspiring list of cars here now, do we:D?

What's so bad about the Mondeo or the Insignia that they are not being included OP? They're only the two best cars in the class.

Both are light years ahead of anything listed here so far - especially the Toyota which excels in being such an emotionless way of moving people around - I think paint drying may actually be more exciting!

The word on the street is that the Insignia is proving a nightmare on the reliability front. Been in 3 opel garages since xmas and was in total shock at seeing 5 Insignia's with the engine out. Class looking car tho.

1rishguy

Im a mechanic. Keep away from passat, Avensis is your best bet. Extremely reliable, almost bulletproof. Octavia good car,one to go for if your budget dosent stretch to Avensis.

Leonard Hofstadter

bazz26 wrote: »

The OP is looking at a 08 model which means his price range would only get him a 1.8 TDCi engined Mondeo of similar vintage. The Mondeo can be the best handling "family" saloon/hatch in the world but it means sweat feck all with that pi$$ poor engine under the bonnet. 2.0 TDCi is alot rarer and cost more.

That would also rule out the Insignia as they only came out in 2009 and again would be outside the OP price range based on what he is looking at. All Opel would have to offer for similar money is the dire Vectra, ok 1.9 CDTi engine would be good but hand on your heart could you really say that a Vectra is a better alternative than an Avensis of that vintage?

Even allowing for the engine, the Mondeo is still a far superior car.

Inside is nicer and has more space. The driving dynamics as mentioned. It's more comfortable and quieter and the Zetecs are very common and have a decent spec. Trying to find an Avensis with a decent spec and a diesel engine is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. The OP said that space was important to him and the Mondeo has more of it than the Toyota.

To go back to the OP about running costs, all of these cars are around the same on costs - they all have VRT band B or C engines and should do about 50 mpg. There is no 'stand out' car on that - they'll all be cheap to run, well at least until the DMF fails anyway!

The Mondeo will be a much nicer place to be in and obviously to drive but will be every bit as cheap to run as the other cars. It is likely that the Mondeo is cheaper to buy too - Toyotas always go for more in the used market because they are perceived to be more reliable than the rest even though Ford, Honda, Mazda (except for some diesels), Skoda etc are every bit as reliable! In fact if you want reliability, nothing beats a Honda - they've always been the best for reliability and probably always will be.

I agree with bazz on the Vectra - that is every bit as unremarkable as the Toyota and while the CDTI 150 PS is meant to be a sweet engine to drive, the more powerful 150 PS version has a habit of needing expensive repairs. So, it is best avoided (but then again I never suggested anyone should buy a Vectra;)).

The Passat should be reliable enough once you avoid the 2.0 TDI PD engine, which is a disaster. The CR engines are fine though. The 1.9 is a great old engine but is a bit noisy and may be a bit underpowered with its fairly measley 105 PS. Of the modern diesels, nothing, and I mean nothing, comes close to the reliability of the good old fashioned 1.9 TDI. They're only getting into their stride when they've hit 200,000 miles. When properly maintained they'll top 300k no bother. Electric parking brake failure and other stupid electrical maladies were very common on the earlier versions but 08s should be fine.

kermitpwee wrote: »

The word on the street is that the Insignia is proving a nightmare on the reliability front. Been in 3 opel garages since xmas and was in total shock at seeing 5 Insignia's with the engine out. Class looking car tho.

Interesting, I recall seeing a survey by the ADAC which placed the Insignia as the most reliable family car. I had heard the very early models were giving serious trouble, but they were supposed to have been well sorted at this stage. Opel are quite good on warranty cover, and often contribute to cars that give trouble outside of the warranty period provided the car has been serviced on time with a main dealer.

kermitpwee

captainspeed wrote: »

Interesting, I recall seeing a survey by the ADAC which placed the Insignia as the most reliable family car. I had heard the very early models were giving serious trouble, but they were supposed to have been well sorted at this stage. Opel are quite good on warranty cover, and often contribute to cars that give trouble outside of the warranty period provided the car has been serviced on time with a main dealer.

Yes they are very good on warranty, in Britain Vauxhall have given brand new cars out to replace cars that couldn't be fixed after several attempts. These cars have been dogged with electrical gremlins, actually saw an Insignia yesterday, savage looking car!

Tea 1000

1rishguy wrote: »

Im a mechanic. Keep away from passat, Avensis is your best bet. Extremely reliable, almost bulletproof. Octavia good car,one to go for if your budget dosent stretch to Avensis.

In your other bullsh!t post you claimed not to be a mechanic I thought...
Either way, that post confirmed that you're not someone to take car advice from!

johnos1984

kermitpwee wrote: »

Yes they are very good on warranty, in Britain Vauxhall have given brand new cars out to replace cars that couldn't be fixed after several attempts. These cars have been dogged with electrical gremlins, actually saw an Insignia yesterday, savage looking car!

I got shouted at for suggesting that here a few months back, glad I'm not the only one who has witnessed it.

Anyway on topic:

OP the 105bhp Passat (1.9TDI) is a nice car if your covering big miles. mine has proved to be very nice to live with and I've not had any of the disaster stories that people are happy to use to turn people off but thats not to say they are perfect. They aren't but if you stick to a 1.9TDI in a nice comfortline spec you should have all the car you need.

On the Avensis, a good car also and it is sure to be a contender in your shopping. Look at them test drive them and decide which suits your needs.

kyote00

My research extended to looking at my tax disc !

2010 model, estate d4d, 30k kilometers clocked up so far, only issue was water ingress to rear light cluster which Mr t fixed.
I average about 50mpg - mostly country driving.
Electric brake is a pain to get used to. Driving position of seat is a bit high for my liking. Power steering is very light (good if you are a granny I suppose)

Please don't be so bossy in the future... :-)

colm_mcm wrote: »

Please do some research before correcting people. I sold them for 5 years, I'd know :-)

Tax on 08 was €302
Tax on current model is €156

kippy

Hi again,
Felt it time to give an update.
Wasnt able to sell the old car private - not a good time for the type of car.
Ended up trading it in for an English import Avensis 2.0 D4D TR spec with about 80K miles on the clock.
Managed to get a good trade on the old car (I think it is anyway).
Have had the car a few days - very happy and herself loves it.
Cheers to all the advice here.
At the end of the day - we stretched to an Avensis as the costs werent that much more than the Octavia - despite them being that bit harder to get.
Kippy

Guy:Incognito

kippy wrote: »

At the end of the day - we stretched to an Avensis as the costs werent that much more than the Octavia - despite them being that bit harder to get.
Kippy

The Avensis is a bigger car, the next size up. The Superb would have been the equivelent Skoda to the Avensis.

kippy

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The Avensis is a bigger car, the next size up. The Superb would have been the equivelent Skoda to the Avensis.

Indeed however the Octavias we were looking at were priced close to the Avensis + the fact that there arent actually that many Superbs in the country.

end a eknny

whizbang wrote: »

take a drive in a diesel mondeo and realise how much physical hard work is involved, compared to any of the competition.
Getting it moving off from stop is impossible to do smoothly/reliably every time- driving in traffic is physical and mental hard work.
however there is one redeeming feature: you will never run out of juice, because you are constantly checking the dash, wondering about that crappy engine management system...(rant over)

the mondeo since its introduction 1993 has been the best driving, best value and best looking car in this range

1rishguy

Tea 1000 wrote: »

In your other bullsh!t post you claimed not to be a mechanic I thought...
Either way, that post confirmed that you're not someone to take car advice from!

SH ONE T HEAD, get your eyes tested. Plus you dont know who you are dealing with.

-Chris-

Tea 1000 wrote: »

In your other bullsh!t post you claimed not to be a mechanic I thought...
Either way, that post confirmed that you're not someone to take car advice from!

1rishguy wrote: »

SH ONE T HEAD, get your eyes tested. Plus you dont know who you are dealing with.

@both of you - attack the post, not the poster.

@1rishguy - Have a read of the Charter for a guide of what's acceptable to post before posting again please.

brembo26

Did i read on here somewhere as well that the avensis didn't have DMF's fitted until 2009. If thats the case if the OP got a '08 or older it should save him a few quid in the long run when it comes to maintainence.

maidhc

brembo26 wrote: »

Did i read on here somewhere as well that the avensis didn't have DMF's fitted until 2009. If thats the case if the OP got a '08 or older it should save him a few quid in the long run when it comes to maintainence.

I have an 02 Avensis D4D that has had 3 DMFs already, so definately not true.

brembo26

maidhc wrote: »

I have an 02 Avensis D4D that has had 3 DMFs already, so definately not true.

cool thanks, was thinkin it was iffy information myself.

colm_mcm

The Avensis got a DPF in 2009
DMF from October 2000

Seems like you mixed them up.

Tea 1000

end a eknny wrote: »

the mondeo since its introduction 1993 has been the best driving, best value and best looking car in this range

The Mondeo has always been very good to drive no doubt, but it's beaten in it's latest incarnation by the Mazda 6 which is better to drive, the Mondeo has been toned down a little in handling response. Best value, possibly. Best looking? No. Never was the best looking, and now in it's latest guise I'd consider it one of the worst looking. Subjective, maybe, but it's not a class leader.
Also, personally I always found the handling compromised by the crappy driving position, same with the Focus.

MugMugs

OP, not sure if you got the car.

I had a 03 Passat and had driven her hard. She was costing me too much so I got rid of her... Also I HATED with a PASSION forking out for timing belts all the time.

I looked at the options

Avensis
Insignia
Mondeo
Octavia
Passat
and
Superb

Opel dont have a good rep with me from when I started driving and their rep in general has fallen through the floor.

Ford and VAG all run contact engines which means the dreaded timing belt change... Also parts can be pricey when it comes to VAG and when you're forking out on radius arms that soon grows tiring.

I went for the Avensis. 08 TR D4D 2.0. Great car, love it too bits. Have 10k Miles on her in three months and not a bother. Servicing is low in my local Garage, Think its about E150 for a bog standard service.

No regrets

kippy

MugMugs wrote: »

OP, not sure if you got the car.

I had a 03 Passat and had driven her hard. She was costing me too much so I got rid of her... Also I HATED with a PASSION forking out for timing belts all the time.

I looked at the options

Avensis
Insignia
Mondeo
Octavia
Passat
and
Superb

Opel dont have a good rep with me from when I started driving and their rep in general has fallen through the floor.

Ford and VAG all run contact engines which means the dreaded timing belt change... Also parts can be pricey when it comes to VAG and when you're forking out on radius arms that soon grows tiring.

I went for the Avensis. 08 TR D4D 2.0. Great car, love it too bits. Have 10k Miles on her in three months and not a bother. Servicing is low in my local Garage, Think its about E150 for a bog standard service.

No regrets

Hey,
Yep, we ended up getting an Avensis TR D4D 2.0 as well!
So far so good!

GTE

brembo26 wrote: »

Did i read on here somewhere as well that the avensis didn't have DMF's fitted until 2009. If thats the case if the OP got a '08 or older it should save him a few quid in the long run when it comes to maintainence.

Could it have been the particulate filter instead? No idea myself. If so that is an upside to the Toyota.

AugustusMinimus

Tea 1000 wrote: »

The Mondeo has always been very good to drive no doubt, but it's beaten in it's latest incarnation by the Mazda 6 which is better to drive, the Mondeo has been toned down a little in handling response. Best value, possibly. Best looking? No. Never was the best looking, and now in it's latest guise I'd consider it one of the worst looking. Subjective, maybe, but it's not a class leader.
Also, personally I always found the handling compromised by the crappy driving position, same with the Focus.

The new Mondeo is a fine looking car. A hell of a lot better looking that than either the new Avensis or Passat.

Insignia has to be the best looking in it's class though.

-Chris-

MugMugs wrote: »

Also I HATED with a PASSION forking out for timing belts all the time.

I don't think I've ever hear someone complain about paying for timing belt replacement "all the time".

Seriously?

MugMugs

-Chris- wrote: »

I don't think I've ever hear someone complain about paying for timing belt replacement "all the time".

Seriously?

5 Timing belts at 500 euro a pop makes for E2500

With a non contact engine and no Timing belt the things I could do with E2500

Go on a nice holdiay, maybe even to the carribean

Put Solar panels onto the roof of my house

Buy an engagement ring (dont like that one)

Get an all over body massage from Brian Cowen

Buy a lifetime supply of Tipp-Ex

Get really really drunk for a few weeks

Buy a new Kayak and gear

Buy a new bike and gear

All of these things interest me a whole lot more than paying to have a timing belt replaced in a car.

"seriously"

-Chris-

MugMugs wrote: »

5 Timing belts at 500 euro a pop makes for E2500

AFAIK, the timing belt interval on a Passat is 100,000KM (it may be 80k, feel free to correct me).

So your car has done (potentially) half a million Kilometres.


How much did you spend on servicing in that time?
How many tyres did you buy?
Any idea what your fuel bill was like over 500k KMs?
How were the other repair bills? You must have had a lot of wear and tear.


Honestly, if you do 500,000Kms in 8 years (potentially less), you'll probably find far greater savings in fuel efficiency and smaller tyres than you will in choosing something because it doesn't have a timing belt.