For potential FF voters, in case you've forgotten

Laminations

Lest any of us forget I'd encourage all voters but especially those considering FF as an option to read back over threads on this site and maybe, if you are serious about giving a considered vote take a look at the lists of FF failures, mistakes, shenanigans and lies on this page which was pain stakingly put together by Biggins.

If you can square all that in your mind, if you can overlook their disasters, forgive their deceit and ignore their incompetence then go ahead and vote FF.

almighty1

Laminations wrote: »

Lest any of us forget I'd encourage all voters but especially those considering FF as an option to read back over threads on this site and maybe, if you are serious about giving a considered vote take a look at the lists of FF failures, mistakes, shenanigans and lies on this page which was pain stakingly put together by Biggins.

If you can square all that in your mind, if you can overlook their disasters, forgive their deceit and ignore their incompetence then go ahead and vote FF.

Thanks for that. Im still voting FF.

Supraman

almighty1 wrote: »

Thanks for that. Im still voting FF.

Comfortable ?

almighty1

Supraman wrote: »

Comfortable ?

Wow a picture of me after the general election when I realise Enda Kenny will be ru(n/i)ning our country.

Shane10

if there was a new exciting change that people could vote for then FF would be totally screwed, but there isnt. a lot of the coverage of the next potential taoiseach is will he fck up on tv over his own policies?? FFS there is no-one to vote for. Then you have labour, would we want joan burton looking after our finances........:mad:

Liam Byrne

Shane10 wrote: »

Then you have labour, would we want joan burton looking after our finances........:mad:

Compared to whom ? Ahern, Cowen & Lenihan ?

I'd take my chances with Burton.

Laminations

almighty1 wrote: »

Thanks for that. Im still voting FF.

Grand. As long as you're happy to stand over their record. People who do far worse can manage to live with themselves so you ain't getting any medals for conquering cognitive dissonance

Shane10

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Compared to whom ? Ahern, Cowen & Lenihan ?

I'd take my chances with Burton.

no i wouldnt, i actually think that noonan would be ok, he seems pretty tuned in, if only FG got rid of Kenny then they would clean up even more IMO. I think Noonan or maybe a younger version like Varadkar would be the way forward to lead it.

Supraman

almighty1 wrote: »

Wow a picture of me after the general election when I realise Enda Kenny will be ru(n/i)ning our country.

The country has hit that stage already unfortunately .

Brenireland

Potential FF voters,no need to post on this thread,We can see & count the amount of FGers here if we let them & only them post.

So when we see their names on other threads we'll know what we're up against.

Laminations

Shane10 wrote: »

if there was a new exciting change that people could vote for then FF would be totally screwed, but there isnt. a lot of the coverage of the next potential taoiseach is will he fck up on tv over his own policies?? FFS there is no-one to vote for. Then you have labour, would we want joan burton looking after our finances........:mad:

So you're staying with FF because you are not excited by your other options? And is FF new and exciting? Sounds like the excuses cheated on partners and battered wives make to convince themselves their husband is best.

almighty1

Laminations wrote: »

Grand. As long as you're happy to stand over their record. People who do far worse can manage to live with themselves so you ain't getting any medals for conquering cognitive dissonance

I dont have to stand over anything. I dont have to give reasons. I can very easily live with myself for voting FF. I dont want any medals thank you very much.

My bottom line is i dont think Labour, FG or any other party would do a better/worse job than FF. Thats my opinion, you may like it or dislike it.

Shane10

Laminations wrote: »

So you're staying with FF because you are not excited by your other options? And is FF new and exciting? Sounds like the excuses cheated on partners and battered wives make to convince themselves their husband is best.

im staying with them because IMO the other options are no better at this particular time. simple. sad fact.

Laminations

Shane10 wrote: »

no i wouldnt, i actually think that noonan would be ok, he seems pretty tuned in, if only FG got rid of Kenny then they would clean up even more IMO. I think Noonan or maybe a younger version like Varadkar would be the way forward to lead it.

Noonan is well deployed in finance, FG have a good team whick Kenny will direct. What do you think Kenny will be doing? Deciding the direction of the country on his ownio? He'll be delegating decent people, we won't see him being bullish or self interested trying to push any personal agendas - there will be no Kenny bowl ideas

telekon

almighty1 wrote: »

I dont have to stand over anything. I dont have to give reasons. I can very easily live with myself for voting FF. I dont want any medals thank you very much.

My bottom line is i dont think Labour, FG or any other party would do a better/worse job than FF. Thats my opinion, you may like it or dislike it.

I categorically disagree with this.

If there had even been one opposition governement in the past 14 years, the IMF would not be here.

FF's special cosy relationship with the largest developers, McCreevey's "if I have it, I'll spend it" way of conducting his budgets and Bertie's continual caving into the unions have all contributed to the loss of economic soverignty.

Monty Burnz

almighty1 wrote: »

Wow a picture of me after the general election when I realise Enda Kenny will be ru(n/i)ning our country.

The country was already ruined by Fianna Failure. The question is, have they ruined it so badly that a new team can't fix it?

But you reward failure anyway sure, it's the Irish way. Didn't Fianna Failure pay the Financial Regulator a 600k lump sum plus a huge pension for failing to regulate the banks?

Liam Byrne

Shane10 wrote: »

no i wouldnt, i actually think that noonan would be ok, he seems pretty tuned in, if only FG got rid of Kenny then they would clean up even more IMO. I think Noonan or maybe a younger version like Varadkar would be the way forward to lead it.

I agree. But despite you liking Noonan you seem hell bent on not ensuring that he'll get in.

So I was merely comparing the other options that you'd left, and Burton came out on top in that comparison.

Brenireland

Monty Burnz wrote: »

The country was already ruined by Fianna Failure. The question is, have they ruined it so badly that a new team can't fix it?

But you reward failure anyway sure, it's the Irish way. Didn't Fianna Failure pay the Financial Regulator a 600k lump sum plus a huge pension for failing to regulate the banks?

reward failure?,the irish Thing?,Sorry I am Irish I did not like that comment.

Shane10

Laminations wrote: »

Noonan is well deployed in finance, FG have a good team whick Kenny will direct. What do you think Kenny will be doing? Deciding the direction of the country on his ownio? He'll be delegating decent people, we won't see him being bullish or self interested trying to push any personal agendas - there will be no Kenny bowl ideas

ya but every team needs a good leader and he isnt. everytime i see him i just think hes way out of his depth. its like when you were in school for example. kenny to me seems like a substitute teacher one who dosent sound like he knows whats hes talking about.

Laminations

almighty1 wrote: »

My bottom line is i dont think Labour, FG or any other party would do a better/worse job than FF. Thats my opinion, you may like it or dislike it.

Shane10 wrote: »

im staying with them because IMO the other options are no better at this particular time. simple. sad fact.

Rubbish. If you think all parties are the same, then their has to be a particular reason you are picking or sticking with FF. And given their disastrous record, that reason must be a good one because your choice amongst equally poor parties as you put it, reflects very badly on you

Monty Burnz

Brenireland wrote: »

reward failure?,the irish Thing?,Sorry I am Irish I did not like that comment.

You may not like it, but you are doing it. You are rewarding the party that bankrupted the country by voting for them.

Just the same as your beloved Fianna Failure rewarded Patrick Neary with a huge lump sum and salary when it became obvious he had done nothing to regulate the banks.

Scotty #

The opposition failed in opposition as much as the government failed in government.

None of them deserve to be let run the country if we're honest.

Monty Burnz

Shane10 wrote: »

ya but every team needs a good leader and he isnt. everytime i see him i just think hes way out of his depth. its like when you were in school for example. kenny to me seems like a substitute teacher one who dosent sound like he knows whats hes talking about.

Kenny is an organiser. FG were in complete disarray when he took over, now they are in good shape. I think he comes across terribly in the media, but I don't give a tinker's curse as long as he organises the government and gets the best out of his cabinet. We had charismatic leaders before, remember - Bertie 'I won it at the races' Ahern and Charles 'private island' Haughey. Two shining examples of charismatic leaders that Fianna Failure preferred to honest grafters.

Brenireland

Monty Burnz wrote: »

You may not like it, but you are doing it. You are rewarding the party that bankrupted the country by voting for them.

Just the same as your beloved Fianna Failure rewarded Patrick Neary with a huge lump sum and salary when it became obvious he had done nothing to regulate the banks.

Sorry,But I am proud to be Irish!,Why should I vote for a party who's plan is to scrap the Irish Language & who's supporters accuse the Irish people/voters of rewarding failure?

Yes we may reward failure in the upcoming election by voting in FG,But No I love my Country & I love the Irish Language.

almighty1

Laminations wrote: »

Rubbish. If you think all parties are the same, then their has to be a particular reason you are picking or sticking with FF. And given their disastrous record, that reason must be a good one because your choice amongst equally poor parties as you put it, reflects very badly on you

Well one main reason is their leaders. Martin looks competent, he has strong understanding of what changes need to be made to turn us around. He has promised political reform (which seems to be one of the main gripes here with FF).

And Kenny looks..........well Kenny looks like he shouldn't be the leader of FG nevermind our next Taoiseach.

Laminations

Scotty # wrote: »

The opposition failed in opposition as much as the government failed in government.

None of them deserve to be let run the country if we're honest.

How does one succeed in opposition? Especially when the government has an airtight majority?

Monty Burnz

Scotty # wrote: »

The opposition failed in opposition as much as the government failed in government.

None of them deserve to be let run the country if we're honest.

We'll see how good Fianna Failure are in opposition now, how constructive they are and what great ideas they have. Meanwhile we'll hopefully end up with some honest people at the wheel who have the long-term interests of the country at heart.

Laminations

almighty1 wrote: »

Well one main reason is their leaders. Martin looks competent, he has strong understanding of what changes need to be made to turn us around. He has promised political reform (which seems to be one of the main gripes here with FF).

And Kenny looks..........well Kenny looks like he shouldn't be the leader of FG nevermind our next Taoiseach.

Again, rubbish, here's why. In the two debates where they've gone head to head, Martin did not win out over Kenny. Also with regards political reform, if that's important to you, FGs plans scored ~20% more than FFs.

telekon

almighty1 wrote: »

Well one main reason is their leaders. Martin looks competent, he has strong understanding of what changes need to be made to turn us around. He has promised political reform (which seems to be one of the main gripes here with FF).

And Kenny looks..........well Kenny looks like he shouldn't be the leader of FG nevermind our next Taoiseach.

I like the way he said he'd abolish the seanad...a good year after FG proposed it first. :rolleyes:

He knows that referendum will be coming up at the end of the year (hopefully) so sure, there's no harm in throwing it out there too...

Laminations

Scotty # wrote: »

None of them deserve to be let run the country if we're honest.

So then why pick FF?

almighty1

Laminations wrote: »

How does one succeed in opposition? Especially when the government has an airtight majority?

29th April 2007. If the impending failure of the Irish banks was so visible, why didnt FG highlight this upcoming travesty and include it as a cornerstone of their political campaign?

No no no, they wanted Ireland to spend, spend, spend.

telekon

Laminations wrote: »

So then why pick FF?

They never signed that damn treaty!

Monty Burnz

Brenireland wrote: »

Sorry,But I am proud to be Irish!,Why should I vote for a party who's plan is to scrap the Irish Language & who's supporters accuse the Irish people/voters of rewarding failure?

Yes we may reward failure in the upcoming election by voting in FG,But No I love my Country & I love the Irish Language.

This is hilarious. Do you think Fianna Failure have improved the standard of Irish in this country in the last 13 years? Why are we discussing this in English? You think the system Fianna Failure have stood over is working?

Someone comes along with new ideas to save the language and they are accused of 'scrapping Irish'. I guess you don't know much about learning or teaching languages, huh?

And you still haven't explained why YOU plan to reward failure, why Fianna Failure have rewarded failure, or how voting for the party that is going to win the elections is rewarding failure.

I honestly don't expect you to explain, because I know you can't. But it's funny watching you squirm.

Shane10

id love to see kenny grilled one to one with browne. id say he would crumble thats why he wont do it. as vinny said for 3 years hes been inviting him on the show. is that a leader? NO

Laminations

Brenireland wrote: »

Sorry,But I am proud to be Irish!,Why should I vote for a party who's plan is to scrap the Irish Language & who's supporters accuse the Irish people/voters of rewarding failure?

Yes we may reward failure in the upcoming election by voting in FG,But No I love my Country & I love the Irish Language.

Let's not pretend it's patriotism. You hated FG long before any policies on Irish were announced. BTW their policy is not to abolish it, it's to try another way to save it cos the current way ain't working

Monty Burnz

Shane10 wrote: »

id love to see kenny grilled one to one with browne. id say he would crumble thats why he wont do it. as vinny said for 3 years hes been inviting him on the show. is that a leader? NO

So debating = leader? That's solved then. We just need to choose our leader from the national debating championships, we can scrap the elections.

Wanted: leader.
Skills required: Debating. Just debating.

I can see why you thought (and probably still think) that the crook Ahern was a good leader, he's he poster boy of the type of guy Fianna Failures see as leader material.

telekon

Shane10 wrote: »

id love to see kenny grilled one to one with browne. id say he would crumble thats why he wont do it. as vinny said for 3 years hes been inviting him on the show. is that a leader? NO

Bertie and Haughey took large sums of money off wealthy, influential individuals. Biffo was at the helm when the IMF came to town...

Which is worse?

CDfm

I am going to challenge the Orthodoxy here - you can say what you want but polling day has not happened yet.

Maybe Croke Park is as good as it gets for the Public Service Workers and any vote other than for FF would be like a turkey voting for Xmas.

CDfm wrote: »

I think a lot of policies came out of the unelected Social Partnership.

Bertie the deal maker held together things by sheet chuzpah

I can't help thinking when you looked at how decisions were made and who benefited the election isn't a little like this.

Maybe the election is about what cuts will you tolerate and what long term debt will be passed down to future generations.

Has this escaped anyone.

DeVore wrote: »

This, unfortunately, isnt born out in the numbers.

The single largest demographic for FF supporters is 18-24.

A lot of people are simply restating their personal beliefs and biases as accepted truths (not having a go, its a generally human thing to do). I'm putting my faith in the law of big numbers.

At a social function a couple of weeks back I was talking to a 20 year old student who told me she was shocked at the prospect of cuts because this was the life she knows.

So what if voters like students and others put self interest first and vote along those lines.

Lone parents ,pensioners etc.

Maybe they will sneak a transfer in there as insurance.

I know the figures on the boards poll aren't big enough to reach a conclusion but at least one group using the poll seems to be showing self interest.

(@telekon The Unions were right in there with the Social Partnership and the HSE and FAS slush funds. Gravy train politics.)

Todays row is how much the Unions were responsible for the current economic crisis and FG seem to think they had a significant role.

Brenireland

Monty Burnz wrote: »

This is hilarious. Do you think Fianna Failure have improved the standard of Irish in this country in the last 13 years? Why are we discussing this in English? You think the system Fianna Failure have stood over is working?

Someone comes along with new ideas to save the language and they are accused of 'scrapping Irish'. I guess you don't know much about learning or teaching languages, huh?

And you still haven't explained why YOU plan to reward failure, why Fianna Failure have rewarded failure, or how voting for the party that is going to win the elections is rewarding failure.

I honestly don't expect you to explain, because I know you can't. But it's funny watching you squirm.

Tá brón orainn, chart tú féin isteach i bpoll!, iarracht anois tóg amach é!.
Cúisí tú dúinn maidir le teip luach saothair na hÉireann?, An é sin an fáth go bhfuil Fine Gael Favorites bheith i gceannas ar rialtas páirtí amháin? An bhfuil, go gciallódh theip siad dúinn ach táimid ag vótála acu i cibé ar bith?.

stop a chur ag caint ****e.

Laminations

almighty1 wrote: »

29th April 2007. If the impending failure of the Irish banks was so visible, why didnt FG highlight this upcoming travesty and include it as a cornerstone of their political campaign?

No no no, they wanted Ireland to spend, spend, spend.

I'm quite sick of pointing out the flaws in this logic. Similar levels of spending targeted differently reap different results. Assuming that just because FG would have spent the same and gotten the same results is as silly as assuming you can pay anyone to fit your boiler (from a child to a registered fitter) and expect the same outcome because you are spending the same. FG were highlighting weaknesses in the PS and our export industry and overreliance on construction, Bruton highlighted falls in our competitiveness numerous times. FACT

Monty Burnz

Brenireland wrote: »

Tá brón orainn, chart tú féin isteach i bpoll!, iarracht anois tóg amach é!.
Cúisí tú dúinn maidir le teip luach saothair na hÉireann?, An é sin an fáth go bhfuil Fine Gael Favorites bheith i gceannas ar rialtas páirtí amháin? An bhfuil, go gciallódh theip siad dúinn ach táimid ag vótála acu i cibé ar bith?.

stop a chur ag caint ****e.

You still haven't tried to address my questions about rewarding failure. Off to Google Translator with you again (although looking at your spelling mistakes, maybe you did it the old-fashioned way).

jmayo

Brenireland wrote: »

Potential FF voters,no need to post on this thread,We can see & count the amount of FGers here if we let them & only them post.

So when we see their names on other threads we'll know what we're up against.

Isn't that a bit rich from a poster that posted on another thread that they were not ff. :rolleyes:
Of course you gave the game away by following that statement with a "but".

Laminations wrote: »

Rubbish. If you think all parties are the same, then their has to be a particular reason you are picking or sticking with FF. And given their disastrous record, that reason must be a good one because your choice amongst equally poor parties as you put it, reflects very badly on you

Laminations,
forget it you can not talk to these people.
People often ask why are these people stupid or so deluded by family voting history that they still vote for ff.

Well they are not stupid, but cute hoors.
They are no better than the ones at the top who robbed from their colleagues kidney donor fund, who got digouts from rich friends, who got a free house for planning kickbacks, who got massive digouts and hid them becuase they had no bank accounts, who slander the opposition and then lie on sworn affadivits to the second highest court in the state which would mean a journalist and newspaper would have to carry the financial can for it, who help others evade their rightful taxes, who fiddle their expenses, or who spend taxpayers money lavishly.

These people support their party, because they have benefitted from that association.
They get planning when others may not, they get jobs ahead of others, they get grants when others can not (frank fahey and his lost a sea scam), they get state contracts, they get placed on state boards (jackie healy rae's daughter, jackie gallagher, etc).

These often don't see ff as corrupt or unethical because often are themselves.
And even if they do see the dodgy deals, they don't care as they have benefitted from similar strokes in the past and they hope they will probably do so in the future.

almighty1 wrote: »

Well one main reason is their leaders. Martin looks competent, he has strong understanding of what changes need to be made to turn us around. He has promised political reform (which seems to be one of the main gripes here with FF).

And Kenny looks..........well Kenny looks like he shouldn't be the leader of FG nevermind our next Taoiseach.

mehole martin looks competent ?
No he looks like a two faced snake oil salesman, who has been ripping you off for years yet has the gall to try and peddle his wares once again.

Iguana Bob

Monty Burnz wrote: »

You may not like it, but you are doing it. You are rewarding the party that bankrupted the country by voting for them.

Just the same as your beloved Fianna Failure rewarded Patrick Neary with a huge lump sum and salary when it became obvious he had done nothing to regulate the banks.

im not voting for FF but i have my doubts they are the only people responsible. i was only 22 at the hight of housing prices and even i realised that 400K is way too much to pay for a house. its an individuals responsibility to manage their finances wether the bank will give them 50 euro or a million.

• people shouldnt have been taking loans they could not pay.
• banks should not have offered them.
• FF should not have allowed it.

maybe people will think before the next recession

Laminations

Shane10 wrote: »

id love to see kenny grilled one to one with browne. id say he would crumble thats why he wont do it. as vinny said for 3 years hes been inviting him on the show. is that a leader? NO

Previous FF leaders never went on VB, Martin only did it for the party, not for the country. Fact is Martin has been pitted against Kenny and he hasn't won

Brenireland

Monty Burnz wrote: »

You still haven't tried to address my questions about rewarding failure. Off to Google Translator with you again (although looking at your spelling mistakes, maybe you did it the old-fashioned way).

OH seo muid!, leanann tú ar aghaidh agus ar waffle!
Do cheisteanna!, grá are ****ing chun ceisteanna a chur!
Aistritheoir Google?, aon chara mo Níl mé le fear Fhine Gael!, tacaíocht mé Éire neamhspleách!

Más mian leat mé a fhreagairt do cheisteanna retype leo agus iad uimhir sin is féidir liom iad a fhreagairt ar do shon.

Brenireland

jmayo wrote: »

Isn't that a bit rich from a poster that posted on another thread that they were not ff. :rolleyes:
Of course you gave the game away by following that statement with a "but".



Laminations,
forget it you can not talk to these people.
People often ask why are these people stupid or so deluded by family voting history that they still vote for ff.

Well they are not stupid, but cute hoors.
They are no better than the ones at the top who robbed from their colleagues kidney donor fund, who got digouts from rich friends, who got a free house for planning kickbacks, who got massive digouts and hid them becuase they had no bank accounts, who slander the opposition and then lie on sworn affadivits to the second highest court in the state which would mean a journalist and newspaper would have to carry the financial can for it, who help others evade their rightful taxes, who fiddle their expenses, or who spend taxpayers money lavishly.

These people support their party, because they have benefitted from that association.
They get planning when others may not, they get jobs ahead of others, they get grants when others can not (frank fahey and his lost a sea scam), they get state contracts, they get placed on state boards (jackie healy rae's daughter, jackie gallagher, etc).

These often don't see ff as corrupt or unethical because often are themselves.
And even if they do see the dodgy deals, they don't care as they have benefitted from similar strokes in the past and they hope they will probably do so in the future.



mehole martin looks competent ?
No he looks like a two faced snake oil salesman, who has been ripping you off for years yet has the gall to try and peddle his wares once again.

I wont even bother replying to that ****e.

CDfm

Laminations wrote: »

Previous FF leaders never went on VB, Martin only did it for the party, not for the country. Fact is Martin has been pitted against Kenny and he hasn't won

He never was going to win as they haven't fielded the candidate numbers to do so.

Labour has not won either and that is where the battle has moved to.

The Social Partnership and Labour/Unions involvement.

I imagine we are seeing the proper election starting.

Monty Burnz

Iguana Bob wrote: »

im not voting for FF but i have my doubts they are the only people responsible.

They weren't solely responsible, obviously irrational exuberance amongst the public was the other half of the equation.

But Fianna Failure:

1) were in government the whole time
2) facilitated the developers with tax breaks
3) engaged in pro-cyclical spending
4) were responsible for financial regulation (which failed absolutely in preventing the banks running amok)
5) kept telling everyone everything was fine, when it was clear it was not
6) told critics to shut up/kill themselves
7) made blunder after blunder in trying to cover up the mess they made
8) made the debts of the banks the debts of the public
9) lied to us about the IMF coming in and taking over
10) lost us our independence

I think I've had enough of being governed by Fianna Failure, thanks very much. There's still a huge storm of sh** ahead of us, that's what most people don't realise. The pain caused by FFailure has only just STARTED. I was half hoping they would survive in power for a few more years because no sane person would ever vote for them again if they were still in power during the coming troubles. As it is, they can cower on the sidelines and pretend it is all someone else's fault for a few years.

Laminations

Iguana Bob wrote: »

im not voting for FF but i have my doubts they are the only people responsible. i was only 22 at the hight of housing prices and even i realised that 400K is way too much to pay for a house. its an individuals responsibility to manage their finances

I agree. And individuals are paying for their poor financial judgements. That's called negative equity and mortgage responsibility. 95% of mortgage holders are making their repairs. So with individual responsibility taking care of by contractual agreement, we the voters need to ensure political responsibility is taken care of. Don't you agree?

Monty Burnz

Brenireland wrote: »

I wont even bother replying to that ****e.

That's the most obvious white flag I've seen in a long time.

scr123

There is an old saying, " When the horse is dead, get off "

What is it about the ABFF ? According to the polls FF are going to get hammered and yet threads galore on message boards are obsessed with FF. I am no psychologist or psychiatrist but it strikes me the ABFF are suffering serious personality disorder. Have they been too longing venting their hatred of FF and just cannot stop ? Could it be they are terrified FF will pull a miracle and come good in the election ?

The whole country is expert on FF and do not need reminders, the stupid ABFF cannot grasp the poll figures and accept they are on the way to government. Of course they are going in to government after lying through their teeth in a very long election campaign. The biggest lie of all is in respect of jobs and the lousy b's are sending out false hope things are going to start looking good from the moment the last vote is cast.

I have an easy life working for myself so have gone to the bother of looking at the ABFF policies. I have concluded the ABFF are obscene liars and guilty of not only economic treason but hypocrisy at a level I have never seen before in politics. These jerks know there is years of deflation to go and to tell the public they have something to offer is treating the same public as fools.
If people look at FF record they should also look at the ABFF record in government. Maybe they should not look at the ABFF record as it will only give then acute depression.

The ABFF are blind ignorant bigots who should at least make some effort to forget FF and try concentrate on their future in government