First Jack O'Connor, now David Begg - are the unions scared of FG

Monty Burnz

almighty1 wrote: »

Just a quick note boys and girls.

ICTU represent more than public sector :rolleyes:.

Perhaps someone should tell them that?

almighty1

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Perhaps someone should tell them that?

Maybe their union members?

almighty1

Rookster wrote: »

FG will get their majority if the unions keep attacking them. You see the vast majority of the pop live in the real world and can aapreciate what FG are saying. Begg is a fool. What about the leafy work conditions of the Public Service.

Do you even understand the concept of a trade union? Power in numbers, solidarity etc etc. FG would be best advised not to irk the trade unions. 34% of employees are members of a trade union, Im sure they wouldnt be happy with FG saying they are part culpable for the economic crisis.

Leafy work conditions? Try being a prison office in mountjoy, a nurse in St James on Saturday night or a fireman at a fatal road crash. :rolleyes:

telekon

almighty1 wrote: »

Do you even understand the concept of a trade union? 34% of employees are members of a trade union, Im sure they wouldnt be happy with FG saying they are part culpable for the economic crisis.

That's only 66% of the electorate voting for FG so...

Monty Burnz

almighty1 wrote: »

Leafy work conditions? Try being a prison office in mountjoy, a nurse in St James on Saturday night or a fireman at a fatal road crash. :rolleyes:

Yes, all public sector jobs are horrific, and all private sector jobs involve leaning back in a comfortable armchair, throwing wads of money in the air and laughing like a hyena. :rolleyes:

almighty1

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Yes, all public sector jobs are horrific, and all private sector jobs involve leaning back in a comfortable armchair, throwing wads of money in the air and laughing like a hyena. :rolleyes:

I never did claim anything about private sector jobs. My response was directly attributed to that particular post and the whole anti public service chest beating around here.

almighty1

telekon wrote: »

That's only 66% of the electorate voting for FG so...

Haha you wish it were as simple as that. Fact of the matter is at the end of the day, ICTU members will still vote whoever they like. They are not going to listen to David Begg or Jack O'Connor.

BUT FG are not doing themselves any favours by apportioning blame on the working class families of Ireland, irrespective of what sector they work in. And that really is the bottom line

Lockstep

telekon wrote: »

The way the unions have represented the public sector the past 10 years, I would assume these booing lefties were also representing the views of the entire private sector.

Private sector workers in the ULA?
SUrely not!

COmplaining about unions is all well and dandy but not when it involves backing the extreme left.

ballsymchugh

doonara wrote: »

Jack O'Connor should stick to what he's good at. Training all Ireland winning teams.Putting on that false beard when he wants to look like a "leftie" has none of us fooled

there i was reading a very interesting and serious thread, and then i saw this and burst myself laughing. quality first post!

astrofool

The wage levels of the public sector are not "working class" wages.

Rabidlamb

300,000 Public Servants used to hold a huge sway over governments.
Unfortunately for them the 450,000 unemployed form a bigger lobby.

No coincidence that FG's bounce coincided with their announcement to strictly enforce the CPA.
We all know that unionised PS workers will take 5 years & 10 government concessions to give up their shoe leather allowance.
We all know FG will trap them with the first stumbling block & then pay is back on the agenda.

I've 2 sister who are teachers & both expect to be cut next December.

almighty1

astrofool wrote: »

The wage levels of the public sector are not "working class" wages.

Fantastic post. Great addition to this thread. Please reread my post to see if you understand what point I am trying to get across. If you still don't get it, I will explain it to you.

Rookster

almighty1 wrote: »

Do you even understand the concept of a trade union? Power in numbers, solidarity etc etc. FG would be best advised not to irk the trade unions. 34% of employees are members of a trade union, Im sure they wouldnt be happy with FG saying they are part culpable for the economic crisis.

Leafy work conditions? Try being a prison office in mountjoy, a nurse in St James on Saturday night or a fireman at a fatal road crash

. :rolleyes:

Cop on! Prison officers are screwing the system big time. With overtime (which they all seem to be on) their earnings are well over 100k per annum.A nurse ( best paid in the world) working in St James's on a saturday night will get a week off in return for working a week of nights. The firemen who are also cleaning up (as was reported recently) should not be in the job if he is affected by fatal road crashes. Plenty of other guys will do it.
Yes, poor public service!

almighty1

Rookster wrote: »

Cop on! Prison officers are screwing the system big time. With overtime (which they all seem to be on) their earnings are well over 100k per annum.A nurse ( best paid in the world) working in St James's on a saturday night will get a week off in return for working a week of nights.

100k per annum. If thats an average I would love to see you prove that.
Nurses? Can you provide a link to prove.
Unless you can actually prove any of your points above then I'll place in the the babble category.

Rookster wrote:

The firemen who are also cleaning up (as was reported recently) should not be in the job if he is affected by fatal road crashes. Plenty of other guys will do it.

You really need to take into context what I was referring to. Its the very basic concept of debating really. To clarify, it was in relation to the poster saying that PS work in "leafy" work conditions. I wouldnt class the scene of a fatal car crash, mountjoy jail or A&E on a Saturday night as "leafy" (irrespective of the individual who is working there)

telekon

Anyone catch JOC on Liveline?

A caller was on earlier saying he had to join SIPTU or be forced out of his job.

When quizzed about this, Jack said it does happen...and then backtracked later, as far as I could tell.

Can you seriously lose your job over not being a union member. Smells a bit fishy to me...

alejandro1977

Rookster wrote: »

Cop on! Prison officers are screwing the system big time. With overtime (which they all seem to be on) their earnings are well over 100k per annum.A nurse ( best paid in the world) working in St James's on a saturday night will get a week off in return for working a week of nights.

Yes POs are over paid;

for the sake of accuracy I believe nurses get a week off after a week of nights as they work 12 hour shifts for a week - (7 nights possibly..)

mikemac

telekon wrote: »

Anyone catch JOC on Liveline?

A caller was on earlier saying he had to join SIPTU or be forced out of his job.

When quizzed about this, Jack said it does happen...and then backtracked later, as far as I could tell.

Can you seriously lose your job over not being a union member. Smells a bit fishy to me...

Was a SIPTU member in a multinational before

It's not that you'd lose your job.
Just that people can be difficult and they might object to working with you. In a warehouse for example and if you can't work on a team it's a lonely experience.

It should never happen in a perfect world but it does unfortunately.

Dyr

telekon wrote: »

The Unions can't say they weren't some bit culpable for this economic mess...

They did'nt go lending ridiculous amounts of money to developers or cooking the books so actually they can.

telekon

Bambi wrote: »

They did'nt go lending ridiculous amounts of money to developers or cooking the books so actually they can.

Yes. We can all agree with that.

I said the unions were "some bit culpable"...which they were.

Whats the problem??

DrumSteve

almighty1 wrote: »

Haha you wish it were as simple as that. Fact of the matter is at the end of the day, ICTU members will still vote whoever they like. They are not going to listen to David Begg or Jack O'Connor.

BUT FG are not doing themselves any favours by apportioning blame on the working class families of Ireland, irrespective of what sector they work in. And that really is the bottom line

Kind of disappointed, I thought there was a link there.

Maj Malfunction

The Unions love affair with "entitlements" has the country in a mess.

Under the Croke Park agreement I am entitled to paid lots of money even it doesn't make any sense for the common good of the country. Where is the socialism in that?

Union wage agreements and entitlements have over 250,000 construction workers either on the dole or emigrated to the UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Qatar etc etc. It's not the developers either who have suffered, its the tradesmen, apprentice's, engineers, architects who have suffered. It's pretty telling when approx 60-70% of the people you worked with four years ago are now working overseas!

Enough of the Union's guff, I hope FG stick it to them and put them back in their place.

Gilmore is busy running down FG and telling everyone how he'll screw all his voters for €3000 a year while FG are busy telling us that they'll stick it the Unions and tax us all €1795 a year, saving us all money! Labour are looking pretty stupid tbh.

Idbatterim

could the entire prison service not be privatised? I think were way past the point of debate over their ridiculous pay, pensions and conditions... The funniest thing is that even if Labor formed a majority government, they would lead us down the path of ruin even quicker, resulting in us missing IMF targets and CPA being ripped up! With FG I think the end result may well be the same, but they could probably bring us a bit further down the road... then again I think were all sick of kicking the can down the road, at this stage if the s**t is going to his the fan, Id prefer it happened sooner rather than later!

Tim Robbins

almighty1 wrote: »

Leafy work conditions? Try being a prison office in mountjoy, a nurse in St James on Saturday night or a fireman at a fatal road crash. :rolleyes:

Or a pointless pen pusher in the HSE

RobbieTheRobber

Maj Malfunction wrote: »

Union wage agreements and entitlements have over 250,000 construction workers either on the dole or emigrated to the UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Qatar etc etc. It's not the developers either who have suffered, its the tradesmen, apprentice's, engineers, architects who have suffered. It's pretty telling when approx 60-70% of the people you worked with four years ago are now working overseas!

I dont see the correlation with union wage agreements and the collapse of the building boom, which has lead to the loss of jobs wihtin the construction sector.

Can you explain to me how the union wage agreements have directly caused the destruction of the building trade which was built on the back on an unsustainable building boom which was aided by risky lending practises and unrealistic property prices.

almighty1

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Or a pointless pen pusher in the HSE

Cmon Tim :rolleyes:. My post was in response to a sweeping generalisation that all PS sit in cosy offices doing nothing. Although I agree that there is alot to change in the PS I was just pointing out that not every part of the public service is "leafy".

RobbieTheRobber

Idbatterim wrote: »

could the entire prison service not be privatised?

Everything can technically be privatised so yes.

Should it be?

Idbatterim wrote: »

I think were way past the point of debate over their ridiculous pay, pensions and conditions... The funniest thing is that even if Labor formed a majority government, they would lead us down the path of ruin even quicker, resulting in us missing IMF targets and CPA being ripped up! With FG I think the end result may well be the same, but they could probably bring us a bit further down the road... then again I think were all sick of kicking the can down the road, at this stage if the s**t is going to his the fan, Id prefer it happened sooner rather than later!

If the end result in the same, how is one better than the other?

Tim Robbins

almighty1 wrote: »

Cmon Tim :rolleyes:. My post was in response to a sweeping generalisation that all PS sit in cosy offices doing nothing. Although I agree that there is alot to change in the PS I was just pointing out that not every part of the public service is "leafy".

It's not fair for you to try and guilt trip anyone who is critical of how their taxes are been wasted. I hate this "oh we're alll should be bowing to the nurse who handed us a towel and was nice to granny" - they are paid to their job.

Stop expecting all this special treatment.

RobbieTheRobber

Tim Robbins wrote: »

It's not fair for you to try and guilt trip anyone who is critical of how their taxes are been wasted. I hate this "oh we're alll should be bowing to the nurse who handed us a towel and was nice to granny" - they are paid to their job.

Stop expecting all this special treatment.

I dont recall seeing the poster you quoted saying anything of the sort.

In response to a suggestion that all public sector workers have easy jobs he pointed out some of the sections that make up the public sector.

I dont see what the issue is in discussing what a job entails when we are talking about what value that job is worth to irish society and also when you deem it perfectly acceptable to declare all public sector workers as useless paper pushers!

Edit: Another point is the public sector has been accused of destroying the construction industry on this very thread now if that is not an attempt to win over support through a "guilt trip" what is it?

almighty1

Tim Robbins wrote: »

It's not fair for you to try and guilt trip anyone who is critical of how their taxes are been wasted. I hate this "oh we're alll should be bowing to the nurse who handed us a towel and was nice to granny" - they are paid to their job.

Stop expecting all this special treatment.

You really are missing out on my point entirely aren't you? What I'm trying to argue (that areas of the public sector are "leafy") has nothing got to do with this supposed pandering you are referring to.

We don't expect any special treatment Tim. Is obviously in your agenda to give us our own special treatment.

Dubh Geannain

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Ugh!!

TO UNION OFFICIALS!!

It you want Labour elected, just shut up! Silence will be your greatest friend over the next week.

Too late for me. Begg and O'Connor have ensured Sinn Féin will be above Labour on my polling card.