Anyone feeling that its now pointless to work here

lmimmfn

I dont know about other people but with current tax increases, its barely worth working and theres more increases to come. Is anyone feeling its completely pointless working here now? I mean even in the context of a decent paying job? i have a well paying job, mrs is in the civil service, and we have a 4 month old kid, but we'd nearly be better off on the dole now, ok lose the house and the deposit etc.( not in negative equity ), but who cares about the house, on the dole of course you would have to cut corners but no work involved and both of us around to look after the kid

Im not saying thats a solution, and its a disgraceful solution, its either that or jack it all in and move to another country, but do people really think its worth even working here now? no matter what the job is?

jimmycrackcorm

I guess you werent around in the 80's when pay was poor and it didn't take much to end up in the 48% bracket

lmimmfn

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I guess you werent around in the 80's when pay was poor and it didn't take much to end up in the 48% bracket

i was around in the 80's, and i remember it very well, at least we had community spirit then, housewives used to go down to the ports and the fishermen would give them fish to feed their families. We dont even have that now.

If anything i remember the 80's more than most, and i understand the value of money, but in the 80's we paid high taxes to pay off interest on stupid government loans but also to fund public works, now all our tax money goes to pay off guys like Anglo paid 400million to recently. He should really send a card, and tell us to keep up the good work.

btw it was higher than 48% in the 80's as far as i remember it was 56%, its now 52% but that doesnt represent the full picture due to inflated electricity prices and what not.

ZYX

lmimmfn wrote: »

btw it was higher than 48% in the 80's as far as i remember it was 56%, its now 52% but that doesnt represent the full picture due to inflated electricity prices and what not.

Top rate of tax was 65% in the 80s and you didn't have to earn a lot to have to pay it.

paul71

Interesting that this tread is running alongside the Blackeconomy one at the moment. The failure of Leftist tax policies is exposed in these treads. They both prove that increasing tax rates results in reducing the amount of tax collected, either by people refusing to work anymore once they reach the higher tax bands or switching to the black economy.

srsly78

We still have one of the lowest tax rates in europe OP. Go live in Germany of Belgium and see how much tax you pay.

RichardAnd

lmimmfn wrote: »

i was around in the 80's, and i remember it very well, at least we had community spirit then, housewives used to go down to the ports and the fishermen would give them fish to feed their families. We dont even have that now.

If anything i remember the 80's more than most, and i understand the value of money, but in the 80's we paid high taxes to pay off interest on stupid government loans but also to fund public works, now all our tax money goes to pay off guys like Anglo paid 400million to recently. He should really send a card, and tell us to keep up the good work.

btw it was higher than 48% in the 80's as far as i remember it was 56%, its now 52% but that doesnt represent the full picture due to inflated electricity prices and what not.

Yes, I agree. There was a some what more alturistic spirit amoungst people during the 80s that was lost during the boom. My grandmother on my father's side grew up in a working class area in north dublin. HEr father was killed in WW2 so she had to go out working at 13 just to make ends meet for her mother and siblings.

What she has always told me though is that if one family in the tenament was on hard times (and they all were at some point), the others would give them hand. Not much now, some food, old cloths or whatever but the point was everyone was in the same boat and thus, people helped each other. Given that today, recession or not, people are much, MUCH better off than my grandmother was, a little community spirit would make a huge difference.

Whiskeyjack

I feel the same way. The only reason I work is out of a sense of responsibility. I certainly wouldn't take that much of a hit financially if I was to go on the dole.

listermint

I work because being on the dole is a ball of sh**e. For real, All you people talking about i would be better off etc etc, Its CRAP.

Seriously there is a hell of alot to be said for working just to keep you sane, get you out of the house and have some of your own time away from responsibilites at home.

I really wonder about some of these posts, christ people you would swear we were all living in Somalia in the early 90's the way some people go on. Its tiresome, talk about having miniscule problems.

' i have a job my wife has a job, the tax is going up' .............. :rolleyes:

Squirm

I was made redundant in the very early weeks of my pregnancy. My partner works and earns a decent wage. We have a young child now and it is a struggle to support the household on my partner's salary.

When I return to work it is highly likely that, once I pay for chilcare, I will be earning only slightly more that the dole and my daughter will be being raised by other people in my absence.

Were we to both sign on, apply for mortgage relief, cash in on the fact that we ARE living with negative equity and the banks would more than likely extend our period of 'interest only' payments, apply for a medical card, we would probably have more expendable income at the end of the month. We could go a step further and not actually bother seeking a job, I could claim to be a single parent, I could avail of rent allowance and pay that to my partner etc etc. We could exploit the system to the fullest....

But at the end of the day, regardless of what we are earning after tax etc etc etc, we have a child that needs positive role models, to inherit a strong work ethic and a sense of right and wrong and, I would rather my daughter see her parents struggle and work hard and strive to make ends meet, than see them sit on their arses getting hand outs.

I was a child in the 80's and I think one of the main differences between now and then is that we are a spoiled generation who enjoyed the high life, became increasingly materialistic and who do not truly understand the value of a euro... thus the fall from grace is all the harder.

I accept that a huge number of people are genuinely struggling enormously to get by BUT I see regularly my peers and friends complaining about the credit crunch, tax increases, pay cuts etc, and yet they continue to holiday twice a year, go for meals, weekly nights out, buy nice clothes blah blah. My mother did not enjoy these luxuries in the 80's. There really wasn't the money for it.
I don't think a lot of people are really experiencing hard times like our parents and grandparents did.... they're just less able to cope with the sacrifices they do have to make.

IMHO

jester77

I live in Germany and taxes are still very low in Ireland imo. I would have an extra €600 in my pocket every month in Ireland. Fuel is about 10c a litre more expensive here, we have water charges, property tax, we even have church tax (not compulsory but you can't have any sermons like christenings, weddings, funerals,etc if you don't pay it). The cost of living here is not much different, some things are cheaper as VAT is 19%. But there is no way there is €600 a month of a difference.

common sense brigade

I have always worked and hopefully always will . i earn 480 Euro a week before tax. I pay 125 a week childcare for my baby. I live in a different county from my family and friends in order to work. so i have no back up in terms of childcare or even the odd night out. i have a mortgage too like most people but luckily we built our house for 135,000. i would love to pack up and go home to my family but there is no work out there. any work there is 1,000 people are applying. i would never give up my job just to go and sit on the dole.

zig

Unfortunately when we do reach a level of taxation on a par with Germany our standard of service will most likely not have improved by an equal amount. This is a result of where our tax money is going.

I think that was the original point.

GoldRush4821

jester77 wrote: »

I live in Germany and taxes are still very low in Ireland imo. I would have an extra €600 in my pocket every month in Ireland. Fuel is about 10c a litre more expensive here, we have water charges, property tax, we even have church tax (not compulsory but you can't have any sermons like christenings, weddings, funerals,etc if you don't pay it). The cost of living here is not much different, some things are cheaper as VAT is 19%. But there is no way there is €600 a month of a difference.

What's the bet you wouldn't even have that job in Ireland???

sarumite

When the people are better off on the dole, does that say more about the job they are in or the amount of money paid out to dole recipients?

jester77

GoldRush4821 wrote: »

What's the bet you wouldn't even have that job in Ireland???

Most likely would have that job in Ireland with the skillset I have. I work in IT for a web 2.0 company, one of the areas where that has not been too hard hit. I know some of my former colleagues who have recently moved to Ireland and taken up jobs there working for a similar company in Dublin.

munchkin_utd

jester77 wrote: »

I live in Germany and taxes are still very low in Ireland imo. I would have an extra €600 in my pocket every month in Ireland. Fuel is about 10c a litre more expensive here, we have water charges, property tax, we even have church tax (not compulsory but you can't have any sermons like christenings, weddings, funerals,etc if you don't pay it). The cost of living here is not much different, some things are cheaper as VAT is 19%. But there is no way there is €600 a month of a difference.

snap - also paying high german taxes.
I would have 500euro MORE if working IN ireland
Also same with the wife.

So we are a grand per month worse off cashwise in Germany than in Ireland.

Give me irish taxes any day!!

hinault

sarumite wrote: »

When the people are better off on the dole, does that say more about the job they are in or the amount of money paid out to dole recipients?

Personally I would like to see some surgical cuts in social welfare payments.

There is a group of people in this country who deliberately choose to exist on the hand outs given by this State (subsidised housing, unmarried mother allowances, dole, other social welfare allowances).
These people should be deliberately targetted and their welfare payments slashed.
They are a drain on society and choose not to take an active part in society.


By historical standards, current rates of taxation here are low.
Also comparing our tax rates to Europe, we're not paying anymore tax here than they are in Europe.
Raising taxes won't reboot this economy anyhow.

Whiskeyjack

sarumite wrote: »

When the people are better off on the dole, does that say more about the job they are in or the amount of money paid out to dole recipients?

That's what I was getting at. There's not enough of a gap

clouds

I can't see how a couple with 2 jobs, one of them civil service, one child and a manageable mortgage could be better off on the dole. Though I suppose it depends on the quality of the jobs. At what point does it become unfeasible I wonder. Below the average industrial wage? Which is circa e32k now I think.

After mortgage, childcare, travel to work and if one of you goes to the doctor but before bills food and whatever else do you have 360 a week? (Ex child benefit as that'd be unchanged)

We have 2 jobs one child and a large but manageable mortgage and we would definitely not be better off on the dole.

HellFireClub

clouds wrote: »

I can't see how a couple with 2 jobs, one of them civil service, one child and a manageable mortgage could be better off on the dole. Though I suppose it depends on the quality of the jobs. At what point does it become unfeasible I wonder. Below the average industrial wage? Which is circa e32k now I think.

After mortgage, childcare, travel to work and if one of you goes to the doctor but before bills food and whatever else do you have 360 a week? (Ex child benefit as that'd be unchanged)

We have 2 jobs one child and a large but manageable mortgage and we would definitely not be better off on the dole.

Very hard to listen to a post like the OP in this thead. Two salaries, both respectable enough by all accounts and not a sign of gratitude that they seem to be relatively well insulated from the poverty that many are experiencing now, people who are unemployed, etc...

Squirm

HellFireClub wrote: »

Very hard to listen to a post like the OP in this thead. Two salaries, both respectable enough by all accounts and not a sign of gratitude that they seem to be relatively well insulated from the poverty that many are experiencing now, people who are unemployed, etc...

Actually, you're dead right. Couldn't agree more. I lost my job, my partner took a 15% pay cut on top of the tax increases an we too have a new baby.... an we're still doing ok-ish and we're still nowhere near the poverty line. We manage ok, we hope to get away this year at some point, we went out for dinner last weekend, my partner will go for a couple of pints tomorrow night. We have to budget, watch the cents, wait for the sales etc, but my partner still has a job, we can afford our mortgage and we still have our car. We're one of the lucky households.

OP- the social welfare is for the genuinely in need. You sound like you might well be in a position in DONATE to the genuinely in need.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

danbohan

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I guess you werent around in the 80's when pay was poor and it didn't take much to end up in the 48% bracket

or the 65%,

RichardAnd

People sayign they are better off on the dole are, in my opinion, talking crap. I was unemployed for 7 months before and even on the coldest morning in winter when I have to peel myself out of bed at 6:45am for work, I do not wish I had no job to go to. Unemployement might be fine for a month or so but as time creeps by and your days are filled with applications being rejected, solitude the sense of uselessness, your outlook will only grow dim.

Work can be crap, it's work. However, it can also be full-filling in that I know I'm worth something to someone and it allows me to live a normal life. Unemployment does neither of these things.

DublinWriter

srsly78 wrote: »

We still have one of the lowest tax rates in europe OP. Go live in Germany of Belgium and see how much tax you pay.

I've lived in both Germany and Belgium.

In both countries private health insurance doesn't come into the picture as the national health systems are fantastic.

The cost of living in both Germany and Belgium is also lower.

I wish people wouldn't keep banging on about Ireland being a 'low taxation' country - it's not, it's all smoke and mirrors when you factor in indirect taxation such as fuel duty, VRT, VAT...and you obviously haven't checked your January payslip seen how much you've been hit by new USC Levy.

KindOfIrish

lmimmfn wrote: »

I dont know about other people but with current tax increases, its barely worth working and theres more increases to come. Is anyone feeling its completely pointless working here now?

Ireland has the lowest taxes in western Europe by far.

mikom

High tax, low tax, middlin' tax, schmiddlin' tax.
It all comes down to this.....

When you put a euro coin in the government slot in Ireland, what do you get?
When you put a euro coin in the government slot in Germany, what do you get?

GoldRush4821

jester77 wrote: »

Most likely would have that job in Ireland with the skillset I have. I work in IT for a web 2.0 company, one of the areas where that has not been too hard hit. I know some of my former colleagues who have recently moved to Ireland and taken up jobs there working for a similar company in Dublin.

I really would love to have IT skills, not just typing and that sh!t but being able to program, they're so transferable and seemingly recession - proof!

dan_d

lmimmfn wrote: »

I dont know about other people but with current tax increases, its barely worth working and theres more increases to come. Is anyone feeling its completely pointless working here now? I mean even in the context of a decent paying job? i have a well paying job, mrs is in the civil service, and we have a 4 month old kid, but we'd nearly be better off on the dole now, ok lose the house and the deposit etc.( not in negative equity ), but who cares about the house, on the dole of course you would have to cut corners but no work involved and both of us around to look after the kid

Im not saying thats a solution, and its a disgraceful solution, its either that or jack it all in and move to another country, but do people really think its worth even working here now? no matter what the job is?

I'm on the dole.The OH is working.

Not to put too fine a point on it - that's a completely rubbish attitude you have there. I spent 6 months unemployed, got a job for 4 weeks, and was then told I was on temporary lay-off, due to company problems with finance.

You do NOT want to be on the dole.You most definitely do not want to be on the dole if you're someone who is used to working.I would give anything - anything - to have a job right now.It's so much more than "ah sure you get everything, and there's no effort involved".

You have nothing to get up for everyday.Absolutely nothing. The effort to get out of bed at a reasonable hour in the morning becomes very hard after a while. Your days are endless periods of time, punctuated by the odd trip - a visit to the bank, a visit to the PO, maybe the gym, meet the odd person for coffee (if you can afford it).You worry constantly about the gap on your CV, how to explain it, how to afford courses (proper courses, not the fiddly FAS stuff).All decent courses cost a hefty sum of money - in my case I have a degree and 5 years experience. I've paid to do a private course in a college for 14 weeks and I want/have to do a Masters from September.I have to pay for that. I'm not going to get grants/subsidies anything.How do I pay and afford my bills??

You have nobody to talk to and nothing to do.Not even the most motivated of people can keep themselves going indefinitely on the dole. You spend hours browsing the same websites, hoping that there just might be something there today. You spend HOURS trying to come up with new ways to find jobs, something different, more innovative, something around scouring the sites and papers.When people say "what do you do"...you say "I'm unemployed".And they go "oh.that's terrible, I'm sorry". You can't fill the car with petrol without wondering have you got the money for it.Your brain becomes tired and depressed and worried.You may find yourself having panic attacks or serious anxiety problems...and then you realise that you can't afford the medical help to get you past it.

And then you look at places like Boards, and realise there are still a large number of people out there secure in their happy worlds and the belief that all those on the dole are wasters and scroungers, who get everything for free, don't have to pay for a thing, and couldn't be arsed looking for work.And (in my case), you get extremely angry pointing out to these people that no, in fact, the dole is a rotten place to be. That (to be honest), whether you've "earned" the money or not through years of work, it's depressing, frustrating, degrading, infuriating and embarassing to be in this situation.I worked damn hard in college, I am not looking for massive money (the job I got paid mid 20K), I will do anything at all, and I can get nothing.Sweet FA.Furthermore, I am entitled to 188eur a week for another few months, and then that's it. I don't have or get a single other thing, regardless of the fact that I have paid into our system.Unlike others out there.

So no.Don't ever wish you were on the dole. There's so much more to it than "sure you get stuff for free". It goes way,way beyond that. If you have a job, hold on to it, and don't delude yourself you'd be better off without, because you wouldn't.And kindly don't tar everyone with the same brush.

Idbatterim

I cap my pay just at the lower rate, so does my mum. Paying 52c in the euro over the threshold is a joke. Whats the point in working any harder? Its all going to be squandered anyway! Dan_d I think everyone is sympathetic to your situation, what infuriates me is the career welfarers, the dole should be incrementally cut over time, down to absolute subsistence, maybe even have it set higher for people that are newly unemployed. Id cut welfare and the lower the rate of PAYE, make it worthwhile for people to actually work. I believe in Germany all state benefits are linked to what you actually paid in? Here there is no difference once you have certain amount of stamps I believe. What makes me laugh here, is that the so called well off or rich that are the target of alot of people are the ones massively subsidising alot of the wasters that are on welfare and the low paid!