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Ironman - Sub 10 Mentored Thread
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17-02-2011 4:15am#1
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Here’s the structure of my training plan. It consisted of three hard weeks followed by a recovery week, this was repeated four times. The basic structure of the hard weeks never changed and consisted of the sessions you see in the table below. I did my best to do each training session whenever it fell. This was not always possible and I sometimes had to swap sessions around. Don’t worry too much if you sometimes find yourself doing the same. I think the key to it is making sure you complete each type of session and train the planned number of hours over the week.
Day|am|pm
Monday|30 mins weights + 15 mins core|cycle intervals
Tuesday|1 hour swim session|long run
Wednesday|run intervals|cycle tempo
Thursday|run tempo/fartlek|1 hour swim session/30 mins weights + 15 mins core
Friday|REST DAY
Saturday|long swim|long cycle
Sunday|brick
Some points to note about these sessions:
a) long bike I did on time, my long run also on time and finally the long swim on distance
b) my long cycle consisted of 5 stages; 30 mins warm up, 30 mins maximum effort, whatever time in between was done at a slightly lower intensity than maximum effort (no way would I have been able to hold a conversation), 30 mins maximum effort, finally 30 mins cool down. So a three hour cycle would be 30 mins warm up, 30 mins max effort, 1 hour slightly less than max effort, 30 mins cool down
c) my long runs were all done at a pace quicker than 4.30/km. Wearing a Garmin I'd get splits for every 5km and I'd pick up the pace to faster than 4.15/km for the final split. So a 22.5km run would be run as such 20km @ <4.30/km 2.5km @<4.15km. Hope this makes sense. I had my own theory behind this, which I think was proved right.
d) long swims was just a case of getting in the pool and swimming that day's distance. Is there any other way? When the weather got warmer I did these in the open water.
e) The plan began doing around 15 hours a week, rising to 26 hours at its peek. (These are fairly crude figures)
f) All my run training was done using pace as a guide. I had targets of >4.30,<4.30, <4.15 <4.00
.50. Depending on the session I'd be looking to hit these speeds, without paying any regard to my HR.
g) Long bike I've already explained, Monday's cycle was a coached club session and the effort required varied by the week. I'll post details as and when the training weeks themselves are posted. Wednesday evening I was on my own and perceived effort was what guided me.
I don't know if this seems like a lot of training to you, but as far as I'm concerned it's what is required to go sub 10. Is there a risk of overtraining and burnout following this plan, sure there is if you jump straight into it, without having built up a decent base. I had been competing in triathlon for 4 years when I took to the start line in Copenhagen, I'd often spent 18 hours a week training in the years prior to this and I didn't find it too daunting an increase. I managed to get through it all without picking up any injuries or illnesses of any sort and I don't think this was luck. My body was ready for the increased training load, I increased it gradually and probably most important of all I had factored in recovery weeks. If you haven't already done so I suggest you take a look at this thread before beginning your ironman training plan;
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056179370
In the weeks and months prior to commencing this plan, I just trained as I normally would have done in any other year I wasn't doing an ironman race.
Over the winter period I spent a lot of time working on my pedalling efficiency. I'd go for 100km cycles without going into the big chainring, this was an awful pain at times, but I've no doubt it helped my cadence.
My brain's not functioning properly anymore and I need to go to bed. I'll have another look at this tomorrow and see is there anything I'm forgetting.
Any questions, ask away.0 -
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Nice one Alan and nice timing with it too
Fair play. Jeez you had some tasty results in the bag before going sub 10. 2:53 in Conn :eek: A 4:45 in Kenmare and a 4th place finish in the Sperrin HIM! I agree with Abhainn too that was really savage pacing in your IM to run a 3:10 off the bike. Really enjoyed your race report too, thanks.
Clearly you had the work put in and the previous years stood to you.
I have a couple of questions.
The plan above: Is this IM specific phase training? So, finish your base phase first then hit this right?
The long bike: Max effort for 30 mins?! Is that eyeballs out TT effort or IM pace effort? How much hillwork did you do?
Sub 4:30 pace LSRs: 4:30 pace for 20km then 4:15 for 2.5km is a nice approach, with a 2:51 marathon behind you though I'm sure this was comfortable. How much confidence did those marathon results give you? From seeing you at our own duathlons you are a cracking runner anyway. When did you do those Marathons in terms of the IM programme. Did you do any road races in the IM phase?I don't know if this seems like a lot of training to you, but as far as I'm concerned it's what is required to go sub 10. Is there a risk of overtraining and burnout following this plan, sure there is if you jump straight into it, without having built up a decent base. I had been competing in triathlon for 4 years when I took to the start line in Copenhagen, I'd often spent 18 hours a week training in the years prior to this and I didn't find it too daunting an increase. .
It does! However as you said if that what it takes to go sub10 then so be it. I've reached that volume just recently but its taking some adaptation. I'm in tri 2 years and last year was an avg 10-11hr week with anything over 13hrs being a rarity. Max week over my first 2 years was 16hrs and that included the W200
As a result I've taken a longer than usual base. 5 blocks of 4 weeks with the 4th week being a recovery week. I'm currently at the end of block 4. So IM phase kicks off for me around Mid March. When I initially laid out the planned progression of hours to the 18-20hr volume weeks I found it very very daunting but its less so now. It involves some serious life balancing and sometimes the training has to take a back seat.
You mentioned your hours ranged from 15-26hrs at peak. Again was this specific IM phase? What was the build pattern, and recovery week volume?
Last question: What were you key benchmark sessions and what was your longest bike, brick, long run, swim?
Sorry one more question: Weight training. Did you continue this throughout the programme and what do you feel the benefit of it was?
Thanks a mill 0 -
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Hi Alan,
I think MCOS covered most of the questions but I have 2 that I can think of:
1. What was your stretching routine like and how often did you do it?
2. For the gym and core, what sort of routine did you do? I'm assuming deadlift, squats, cleans, etc but I know a lot of people take different approaches. Some people do strength sessions in the base phase and then switch to metcon sessions as they progress through the phases. just wondering what worked for you? Cheers.
Oh ya, one other question - where's your IM race report?
Cheers.
P.0 -
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The plan above: Is this IM specific phase training? So, finish your base phase first then hit this right?
Ye that's right, sorry thought I had clarified that somewhere.
The long bike: Max effort for 30 mins?! Is that eyeballs out TT effort or IM pace effort? How much hillwork did you do?
Eyeballs out and eyeballs out again for the second last 30 minute section. The goal was to be able to hold the same pace for the two efforts. I don't think there's any point just going out for a long cycle without any intensity behind. You're just teaching yourself to cycle slowly.
I did a lot of hill work in the base phase. These long cycle were all, bar one, done on a 20km stretch of the N11. (I hate that road now) Some climbs now and again, but nothing drastic. I stayed in the big ring all the way. I'd do hill repeats perhaps every second week, short sharp climbs more for strength training than anything else I guess.
Sub 4:30 pace LSRs: 4:30 pace for 20km then 4:15 for 2.5km is a nice approach, with a 2:51 marathon behind you though I'm sure this was comfortable. How much confidence did those marathon results give you? From seeing you at our own duathlons you are a cracking runner anyway. When did you do those Marathons in terms of the IM programme. Did you do any road races in the IM phase?
I'd no problem hitting these targets, in terms of my marathon race pace they're way off. When finished the 20km would probably have been ran at 4.22/kn and the 2.5km effort at 4.08/km. I drew huge confidence from my marathon times. I was in effect training for a 3.15 marathon, which on it's own would be very easy for me, so I was never worried about running my entire long runs at my PMP. (I don't know if this approach would work for a marathon itself, but something tells me it wouldn't)
I'd ran three marathons prior to doing an ironman, Oct '08, Mar '09, Oct '09. I didn't do any road races, very rarely do. During the base phase I ran the Wicklow Way Trail in March, got lost along the route, myself and hills don't mix well. That was the only running race I did that year.
You mentioned your hours ranged from 15-26hrs at peak. Again was this specific IM phase? What was the build pattern, and recovery week volume?
It was yes. I need to think it out how it was built up. Obviously the biggest increases came as the long bike, run swim got longer. Brick session also accounted for an increase of approx 2 hours over the programme. The volume also increased in my tempo cycles and another smaller increase in my tempo runs. To be honest I was just checking back through email communication I had with a fellow club member to come up with the numbers 15-26. I had it fully thought out then though, so I'll still stand over them.
Recovery week was around 50% of the volume of a hard week. I dropped weights and tried to get things done in the mornings. Did more swims during recovery weeks than otherwise. I'd generally just do whatever training I felt like doing, they weren't as structured as the other weeks.
Last question: What were you key benchmark sessions and what was your longest bike, brick, long run, swim?
My longest bike was a 190km TT effort, exact same set up as race day (bar the Camelbak on my back), Zipp wheels, aero helmet and all. This doubled up as my longest brick as well as I went for a 14km run straight after finishing. In terms of the regular, Sunday bricks the longest efforts were 3hr 30 mins cycle and 1hr 30 mins run.
Longest run was 41.4km in 3 hours on the button, was very tempted to run an additional 800m, but the plan was a 3 hour run, bot a minute more, not a minute less.
Longest swim was 4,000m in a pool, spent approx 50 mins in the open water.
Sorry one more question: Weight training. Did you continue this throughout the programme and what do you feel the benefit of it was?
During base phase I split lower body and upper body over two days, followed by core at the end. During ironman phase I did all three two days a week. No real rationale behind this, it was just what a guy in the club who qualified for Kona advised. It turned out to be more aerobic exercise than anything else the weights were so light and I was rushing through them to finish on time. As I said earlier I dropped weights during my recovery weeks. I tried vary the exercise every session, while still working the same body part. The benefit it provides me is my muscles and body don't be as sore after races and I think I can hold form better because I am stronger.
Thanks a mill 0 -
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Good man Alan for stepping forward and agreeing to do this thread. By the looks of things, there's huge interest in what you've got in store. Great to see some focus on the sharp end of Tri's, and I'm sure your thread will be massive benefit to anyone looking to improve.
Best of luck with it 0 -
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Hi Alan,
I think MCOS covered most of the questions but I have 2 that I can think of:
1. What was your stretching routine like and how often did you do it?
2. For the gym and core, what sort of routine did you do? I'm assuming deadlift, squats, cleans, etc but I know a lot of people take different approaches. Some people do strength sessions in the base phase and then switch to metcon sessions as they progress through the phases. just wondering what worked for you? Cheers.
Oh ya, one other question - where's your IM race report?
Cheers.
P.
Sorry skipped answering this earlier on.
1) I didn't have a routine for stretching and it might surprise you but as part of my warm ups I only did it for running intervals and running tempo runs, after a 10 minute warm up, then I'd follow this by 5-8 minutes of drills.
2) Sorry I know very little about weights, so what I tell you is far from expert advice. There was a range of exercises I used, and I tried to vary the sessions as much as possible, while still exercising the same body parts. I don't think it takes too much imagination to come up with a session. Often it was determined by whether a machine, or don't know what you call it (but the place people do bench presses and or squats), in the gym was free or not
Unless I was really stuck for time and I'd be late for work, I'd exercise one leg a time.
All exercises were done in 3 sets of 15 reps. For lower body I'd do four separate exercises and same for upper.
The following is only for the sake of example only;
Chest press (with dumbbells); 3 x 15
Shoulder press (with dumbbells); 3x 15
Bicep curls; 3x 15
Some sort of exercise for triceps (can't think of any proper terms); 3 x 15
Think superset is the term and this is the way I'd exercise, whereby I'd do a set of chest presses and move straight onto the shoulder press, without any recovery.
Sorry I don't know what metcon sessions are, but the above is what I did for the 16 weeks of my specific ironman training, if that's what metcon means then I guess that's what I did.
Many in ironman training don't bother with weights. I feel I need to, so by that logic any session with light weights and high reps has to be better than nothing. I feel weights are important, but not important enough to worry about what exact exercises you're doing. As long as you're not trying to bench press your own body weight, you should be alright.0 -
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Day|AM|PM
Monday|weights; 20 mins lower body, 10 mins upper body, 15 mins core; Total 45 mins|Cycle - Intervals 12 Sets of 200m, 500m and 1.5km, various intensities
Tuesday|Swim; objective: skills ~ 2300 metres|Long Run - 90 mins 15km @ <4.30km, remainder @ <4.15/km
Wednesday|Run Intervals - 1km x 10 @ < 3.45/km|Cycle 20 mins warm-up, 20 mins @ PE of 9, 10 mins @ PE of 6, 20 mins @ PE of 9, 20 mins cool down
Thursday|Run - main set = 2 mins easy, 1 min hard, 2 mins easy, 2 mins hard, 2 mins easy, 3 mins hard, 2 mins easy, 4 mins hard, 2 mins easy, 3 mins hard, 2 mins easy, 2 mins hard, 2 mins easy, 1 min hard, cool down|weights + core/Swim;objective skills / with some pace work - 2500 - 3000 metres
Friday|REST DAY
Saturday|Long Swim 2,000m|Long Cycle - 30 mins warm up, 30 mins PE 10, 30 mins PE 8, 30 mins PE 10, 30 mins cool down Total 2½ hours
Sunday|Brick - 2 hours cycle at PE 8, 45 min run @ <4.30/km
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Interesting Alan. Max run length 1.5hrs, bike 2.5hrs, swim circa 1hr? Albeit all of these contain some intensity of some type. If you spend you base phase builing the swim bike run up to 4km/5hrs/2.5hrs respectively, did you just drop back to the volume you have above for first week of IM training
I'm 1 block from IM training. Do you think 12 weeks + 4 week taper is sufficient?
I'll pencil some of these sessions into my IM phase for sure. The 2*20min I'll be doing on the turbo for the next 3 weeks at 90-95%FTP. I tried your long run format this morning (I'll comment seperately). Swims are mainly club session/masters type stuff so they are good. I do an extra longer set alone during the week. Thinking of dropping a swim for yoga/row or yoga/strength in the IM phase.
3 sessions stand out. The 10*1km intervals. Thats tough particlaurly with the threshold bike reps later that day. Did you do 10 reps off the bat and sustain this workout or build up to 10 reps? What rest bewteen reps?
The pyramid run looks good too. The 2.5hour bike format looks tough too and an 80%RPE 2hrs on the saddle the next day :eek:
Its actually a lot more intensity than I would have though was necessary but then you have a 9.47 to back it up so You got my attention.
As I mentioned I have one more base block to go, ie 3 weeks on 1 week off. Then I'm into the type of stuff you prescribed above. Do you think I should plug away at base intensity or start introducing bits of the above in progressively? I plan to do the 2*20 bike anyway and I do enough intensity at swimming already. Perhaps I could start with the 1km reps and start with 4, then 6, then 8 so that I will hit the first weel of IM phase with 10 reps in mind?
I'm interested to see your recovery week approach too but all in its own good time
Definitely food for though now...0 -
Hi all,
I've created a weekly checklist here for anyone doing the IM distance. It can be a brief picture of where people are at, especially if you are too lazy to keep an actual log
. Even if your IM is 6 weeks after that of someone else you can see how everyone is progressing and where you might need to be in 6 weeks if you have a similar goal (assuming that person is going well ) It can be a place for zico10 and other experienced heads to comment on the brief summary of your week and how you rated yourself out of 10 for it. Hey even if I'm the only one using it and getting lectures from the sensei (along with the odd poking from tunney) then so be it but I know there a quite a few sub12 and sub14s lurking around this thread. If the idea bombs it bombs.. at least I tried
IM mentored weekly checklist, week end 20 feb 2011
name|wks to IM|hrs done|long swim set|long bike|long run|satisfaction/10|comments
shotgunmcos|20|11hrs57|4km inc 3.8kTT|2hrs45, 81km no run|1hr40, 22km|9/10|recovery week, swapped a swim out for yoga and ran a lot less. Feel good
Twas a dacent week for me in that I took it easy for the most part. I also skipped a couple of runs to lounge with the OH and those decisions were welcomed! Toughest session of the week was the zico10 LSR format. 20k at 4:30 pace and 2.5k at 4:15 pace. More detail in my log shortly.0 -
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A little off topic but relevant I think. 2 questions for anyone that cares to give there 2c worth:
1. What volumes / weekly hours would someone have to be comfortable with when starting their 16 week lead up to an IM to go sub 10?
2. What sort of results would an athlete want to have been getting in OLY & OR HIM the previous season to go sub 10?
I know there are other factors to take in to account but keeping it simple for now.
P.0 -
Just used these as a starting point in my ironman training. I'd no problem doing these times and more during my base building phase. You'll see some of the weekly swim sessions are longer than the long swim, I just tried to hit my planned pace in the Saturday morning swims. Introduced intensity into all three disciplines, so I guess you could say the same for bike and run as well.shotgunmcos wrote: »Interesting Alan. Max run length 1.5hrs, bike 2.5hrs, swim circa 1hr? Albeit all of these contain some intensity of some type. If you spend you base phase builing the swim bike run up to 4km/5hrs/2.5hrs respectively, did you just drop back to the volume you have above for first week of IM training
Ye I'd say that's plenty. I'm sure you're aware of this, but make sure the taper is planned out. My taper was only three weeks. I tapered the run from this point, the bike from two weeks out and the swim from one. Volume reduction was along the lines of 75%, 50%, 25% week on week.shotgunmcos wrote: »I'm 1 block from IM training. Do you think 12 weeks + 4 week taper is sufficient?
Never used turbo during these 16 weeks, but see no reason why this session couldn't be transferred. You'll have to figure out power output, etc. yourself though.shotgunmcos wrote: »I'll pencil some of these sessions into my IM phase for sure. The 2*20min I'll be doing on the turbo for the next 3 weeks at 90-95%FTP. I tried your long run format this morning (I'll comment seperately). Swims are mainly club session/masters type stuff so they are good. I do an extra longer set alone during the week. Thinking of dropping a swim for yoga/row or yoga/strength in the IM phase.
My own swim training was hardly textbook, one of them was a club session where I'm sure I made the biggest improvements. I'm sure what you're doing is fine and dare I say it, swimming isn't all that important in an ironman.
I was doing intervals with club all throughout the winter. I was at this level to begin with. I've ran a half marathon at the same pace I was doing these intervals at, so something would have been wrong if I couldn't manage them. Rest between intervals was a slow jog for about 150m, never timed it.shotgunmcos wrote: »3 sessions stand out. The 10*1km intervals. Thats tough particlaurly with the threshold bike reps later that day. Did you do 10 reps off the bat and sustain this workout or build up to 10 reps? What rest bewteen reps?
I'm going to have to answer your question with a question I'm afraid. Are you running intervals as it is? It worked for me as I was covering close enough to this distance in the base phase.shotgunmcos wrote: »As I mentioned I have one more base block to go, ie 3 weeks on 1 week off. Then I'm into the type of stuff you prescribed above. Do you think I should plug away at base intensity or start introducing bits of the above in progressively? I plan to do the 2*20 bike anyway and I do enough intensity at swimming already. Perhaps I could start with the 1km reps and start with 4, then 6, then 8 so that I will hit the first weel of IM phase with 10 reps in mind?
Patience is a virtue.shotgunmcos wrote: »I'm interested to see your recovery week approach too but all in its own good time0 -
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A little off topic but relevant I think. 2 questions for anyone that cares to give there 2c worth:
1. What volumes / weekly hours would someone have to be comfortable with when starting their 16 week lead up to an IM to go sub 10?
2. What sort of results would an athlete want to have been getting in OLY & OR HIM the previous season to go sub 10?
I know there are other factors to take in to account but keeping it simple for now.
P.
1) I was probably used to doing 18-20 hour weeks, I didn't find the prospect of facing into 26 hour training weeks particularly daunting. I think at a bare minimum you'd have to be used to doing 16 hour weeks on a consistent basis.
2) I wouldn't get too hung up on this. I personally didn't draw any comfort from any Olympic races I did. Any half irons I had done were only okay. It's impossible to say with any certainty, the ironman is a different ball game.0 -
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For me it worked out as:
1. Unhide col E
2. Swim was your swim time
3. Col E was your bike time
4. Run time was col G minus Swim minutes
Taking Zico I reckoned then
Swim 0:33
Bike 2:42
Run 1:25
Total: 4:40
So that logic makes the avg swim time circa 32 mins :eek: and Liam Dolan posted a sluggish 42 mins for a half marathon :rolleyes:
So a pack of uber swimmers swimmers took part and only a WR half marathon could break em up
Weird results format I have to say... 0 -
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