Learning to drive a motorcycle

msg11

Hi good folks,

Seems like the best place to ask.

I'm 20 years of age at the moment, I hold a full B license. Interested in getting a licence (full licence in time) for at motorcycle.

By the looks of things, I have/can get a A license which seems to cover all bikes cause I am over 18. The bike I am interested in getting is 125cc (options please on that) .

What I would like to know is, I have a DTT disc here 4th Edition May 2009, is this up to date ? If not is it badly out of date ?

Is it just a case of getting the licence riding about for a while and going for the full license ?

Sorry for the ingnorance about this, but I really have no idea, it's been over 4 years now since I last sat any test for a license it's just changed so much !

Also, will I lose my full license on the B or is it a separate licence I get ?

Any help or advise .

Thanks in advance.

LookBehindYou

You will need to pass a Theory test for Cat : A first.
Then go with that and an eyesight report along with 2 passport sized pics of yourself (signed on back) and fill out the application for a Learner Permit in class A.
Then you will have to do the IBT course (16hrs) and get your IBT cert.
After all that you can ride alone on a bike which is restricted to 33 bhp (25 kw) assuming you can afford the insurance.

challengemaster

msg11 wrote: »

Also, will I lose my full license on the B or is it a separate licence I get ?

You'll get an updated license with A & B (probably W too)

Faith+1

I think a mod should move this. The guys in the motorcycle forum would be much better in advising you what you do.

P.C.

Before you learn to drive on public roads, you must hold a learner driving permit, covering the category of motorcycle you wish to drive. A theory test certificate must be obtained before a first learner motorcycle permit will be granted. It is important to note that learner permit holderscannot carry pillion passengers (i.e., passengers on the back of their motorcycle) or ride on a motorway.
Since 6 December 2010, when you get your first learner permit you must do initial basic training (IBT). IBT is a 16 hour course broken into 4 modules. If you have a learner permit, you cannot ride a motorcycle on the road unsupervised by your IBT instructor unless:

• You obtained a learner permit before 6 December 2010 or
• You have done your IBT and received a certificate of satisfactory completion

If you have completed your IBT and you want to upgrade the bike you ride (from automatic to manual or tricycle to two-wheeler) you must complete a conversion IBT module.

More info here:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/driver_licensing/learner_driving_permits_for_motorcycles_in_ireland.html

So, it seems that you will have to do the theory test, then the IBT, and then six months later you can do your full test.

carsQhere

http://www.magireland.org/information-sheets/getting-on-the-road/

Some useful info there, and there's a page on restricted licenses there too.

msg11

So do I need to get the IBT cert first people I get my license ?

Or

Do I get my license first then my IBT cert ?

Am I allowed use the road while I am getting my IBT cert ?

If not will some guy call to my house , then we go out riding ?

This sounds extremely messy, 16 hours sounds like an awful amount of basic training.

Thanks..

P.C.

First you pass the theory test.
Then you apply for your learners permit.
Then you complete the IBT, and get you certificate.

Then you can ride on public roads on your own.

I think all instructors who offer IBT have school bikes.

You can NOT do your IBT without your learners permit.

msg11

This ITB Stuff ain't cheap at €500 for the course !

http://www.irishschoolofmotoring.ie/index.php?page=initial_basic_training_ibt

Even after doing that I might be a lot better off , but I would worry about some other people on the road.

P.C.

msg11 wrote: »

but I would worry about some other people on the road.

Always worry about other people on the road.

It is one of the ways to help you stay out of trouble when riding a bike.

daenerysstormborn3

P.C. has covered everything there in a nutshell.

Yep, 16 hours is an awful amount of training but that's our government for you.

The cost and time involved will unfortunately, probably put a lot of people out of the picture.

And the only way I recommend driving a motorbike is to drive it like everyone on the road is going to kill you. This may go towards you foreseeing stupidity on the road.

msg11

pixiebean22 wrote: »

P.C. has covered everything there in a nutshell.

Yep, 16 hours is an awful amount of training but that's our government for you.

The cost and time involved will unfortunately, probably put a lot of people out of the picture.

And the only way I recommend driving a motorbike is to drive it like everyone on the road is going to kill you. This may go towards you foreseeing stupidity on the road.

Folks, the sad reality is . I do that in a car, there really are some true bizarre drivers out there on all forms of transport . But in fairness 99% of them are not motorbike users.

They really are clutching at straws with this stuff.

'How to start the bike' , well if a car is anything to go buy. Make sure it's in neutral and turn the key ..

In a way I do like the idea of module 2;

Module 2 has 10 objectives. You will need at least five hours to achieve them.

1. Moving off and stopping

2. Use of brakes

3. Use of gears

4. Slow riding

5. Figure of eight

6. U-turn

7. Slalom

8. Rear observation and mirrors

9. Turning left and right

10. Emergency adjustment of speed..

Some of the stuff I know already, traffic lights , junctions etc.. No harm too go over it again I suppose. Looking about 500€ seems to be the cheapest. And it's over a day or two and they provided the bike.

Is this good ?

daenerysstormborn3

500 quid is as cheap as you'll find it anywhere, if you don't already have a bike and have to use one of the instructor's bikes bear in mind that there may be a fee for this on top of the IBT cost. Some instructors charge a fee straight up, some don't charge a fee but get you to sign a legally binding document to cover the insurance excess should you damage the bike during your training.

msg11

pixiebean22 wrote: »

500 quid is as cheap as you'll find it anywhere, if you don't already have a bike and have to use one of the instructor's bikes bear in mind that there may be a fee for this on top of the IBT cost. Some instructors charge a fee straight up, some don't charge a fee but get you to sign a legally binding document to cover the insurance excess should you damage the bike during your training.

I don't have a bike at the moment, I was thinking of getting a bike for around 1500-1700€ . But this 500€ has upset my plans so too speak.

Shall find out some more information on bike up there, just need to get my licence first ...

AgileMyth

msg11 wrote: »

it's over a day or two

More than likely at least two. I hear bike instructors hate working 16 hour days.:D

OP if you have the money do it, you'll never regret it.
Check out insurance costs before you dive in, I'm 20 with a full licence and three years no claims and paying far too much. Seems to drop a bit once you turn 21 though.

msg11

AgileMyth wrote: »

More than likely at least two. I hear bike instructors hate working 16 hour days.:D

OP if you have the money do it, you'll never regret it.
Check out insurance costs before you dive in, I'm 20 with a full licence and three years no claims and paying far too much. Seems to drop a bit once you turn 21 though.

I am going to do it, just going to take a bit longer than expected. Ideally too be riding at the start of the summer would have been the best, weather wise and not really dark till late etc.. Quinn quoted me 1000 or in there on a 125cc, seems fair. No experience and all that. Might come down when I do finally get a bike as I will be 21 years old then .

inchiuvatu

If you go down the line of getting a 125cc bike then make sure you rent a bike to do your actual licence test.. if you do your test on a 125 you will only get an A1 licence which restricts you to 125 or lower if you want to ride larger bikes in the future you would need to resit the full A licence test.
You could get yourself a 250, or restricted larger bike for around €1000, i understand that insurance will be more but it might balance out. and then in 2 years after you receive your licence you can ride any bike you want (as long as you can get the insurance).

when i got into biking i stung myself with buying a cbr125, i had to rent a bike for the day of the test. renting a bike is easy, bike schools do it all the time once you do a pre-test with them but if your anything like me you will find the 125's a bit lacking no matter what style of 125 you get.

and dont forget to budget for some good gear.. if your serious about getting into biking even just for the summer months you will need good gear, check out cotters for good gear, and if your spending a few quid they do good deals.. i think there doing a sale in the coming weeks defo worth a look.

bladespin

pixiebean22 wrote: »

500 quid is as cheap as you'll find it anywhere

Actually, it's not, there are instructors offering significantly better prices than that, the best thing to do would be to call some, they offer group discounts too so it might be possible for you to join one of their groups.

msg11

inchiuvatu wrote: »

If you go down the line of getting a 125cc bike then make sure you rent a bike to do your actual licence test.. if you do your test on a 125 you will only get an A1 licence which restricts you to 125 or lower if you want to ride larger bikes in the future you would need to resit the full A licence test.
You could get yourself a 250, or restricted larger bike for around €1000, i understand that insurance will be more but it might balance out. and then in 2 years after you receive your licence you can ride any bike you want (as long as you can get the insurance).

when i got into biking i stung myself with buying a cbr125, i had to rent a bike for the day of the test. renting a bike is easy, bike schools do it all the time once you do a pre-test with them but if your anything like me you will find the 125's a bit lacking no matter what style of 125 you get.

and dont forget to budget for some good gear.. if your serious about getting into biking even just for the summer months you will need good gear, check out cotters for good gear, and if your spending a few quid they do good deals.. i think there doing a sale in the coming weeks defo worth a look.

Cheers for the info. I would be going for the A licence , dose that not cover bigger bike in itself ? 125cc and over , 125cc been the lowest. What's the max CC a person like myself can drive on a learner permit ?

I am going for the 125cc as I feel it will be powerful for myself just starting out, I could look into the 250cc , but really wouldn't want anything bigger than that because it would just be dangerous for myself.

inchiuvatu

The a1 lets you driveup to and including 125.
the A lets you drive all bikes (but restricted in power for 2 years)

The A test requires a bike OVER 125cc so a 125 doesn't qualify.

On proviosional like the restricted licence your bike must be one of the following, 250cc
250cc or below
33bhp or under
0.16kw power to weight or less

For example a big fat chopper might be 600cc and 50bhp but its so heavy the power to weight is less then 0.16 so a learner can have one.

I'm certainly not against having a 125 if it suits you needs but I suggest you do your test on a rented bike to get yourself to full power licence so your free to change your mind later.

blackbird98

msg11 wrote: »

Also, will I lose my full license on the B or is it a separate licence I get ?

Everything else has been well covered here. You won't lose your B licence, initially you will have 2 licences, your full B, and a prov A. When you have passed your test in the A class, this category will then be added to your existing licence.

As the previous poster said, try to go for a 250cc bike. If you ride a 125, and do your test on it, then you're stuck with an A1 licence. you'll then have to go through the whole procedure again to get a bigger bike

msg11

inchiuvatu wrote: »

The a1 lets you driveup to and including 125.
the A lets you drive all bikes (but restricted in power for 2 years)

The A test requires a bike OVER 125cc so a 125 doesn't qualify.

On proviosional like the restricted licence your bike must be one of the following, 250cc
250cc or below
33bhp or under
0.16kw power to weight or less

For example a big fat chopper might be 600cc and 50bhp but its so heavy the power to weight is less then 0.16 so a learner can have one.

I'm certainly not against having a 125 if it suits you needs but I suggest you do your test on a rented bike to get yourself to full power licence so your free to change your mind later.

I'll look into the 250cc just to avoid any ' Re Test ' cause of the type of motorcycle. Thanks for the information, it's amazing how the car test is not as hard to get considering, motorbike users, I doubt would be as dangerous as some car users on the road. As someone said it's the government.

At the moment I am just going threw the theory test. Going to book it later tonight for next week.

RosieJoe

inchiuvatu wrote: »

The a1 lets you driveup to and including 125.
the A lets you drive all bikes (but restricted in power for 2 years)

The A test requires a bike OVER 125cc so a 125 doesn't qualify.

On proviosional like the restricted licence your bike must be one of the following, 250cc
250cc or below
33bhp or under
0.16kw power to weight or less

For example a big fat chopper might be 600cc and 50bhp but its so heavy the power to weight is less then 0.16 so a learner can have one.

I'm certainly not against having a 125 if it suits you needs but I suggest you do your test on a rented bike to get yourself to full power licence so your free to change your mind later.

This is at least the 2nd time this has been stated in this forum. The bike must be learner legal until 2 years after your full licence application has been processed! Not 2 years from getting your first learner permit, not 2 years after passing your bike test. 2 years after processing!

Del2005

inchiuvatu wrote: »

The a1 lets you driveup to and including 125.
the A lets you drive all bikes (but restricted in power for 2 years)

The A test requires a bike OVER 125cc so a 125 doesn't qualify.

On proviosional like the restricted licence your bike must be one of the following, 250cc
250cc or below
33bhp or under
0.16kw power to weight or less

For example a big fat chopper might be 600cc and 50bhp but its so heavy the power to weight is less then 0.16 so a learner can have one.

I'm certainly not against having a 125 if it suits you needs but I suggest you do your test on a rented bike to get yourself to full power licence so your free to change your mind later.

There are some 125cc and 250cc bikes that aren't learner legal. It's power or power to weight for the restriction, cc doesn't enter into it.

OP definitely get a 250 if possible, you can pick up CB250 and the like cheap enough and will get better use then a 125.

Also AFAIK the bike has to be over 150cc for the A test

P.C.

RosieJoe wrote: »

This is at least the 2nd time this has been stated in this forum. The bike must be learner legal until 2 years after your full licence application has been processed! Not 2 years from getting your first learner permit, not 2 years after passing your bike test. 2 years after processing!

Sure, when you get your licence, the dates will be on it.
All you have to do is read them.

daenerysstormborn3

bladespin wrote: »

Actually, it's not, there are instructors offering significantly better prices than that, the best thing to do would be to call some, they offer group discounts too so it might be possible for you to join one of their groups.

That's great, hopefully the OP can find one of these instructors.

inchiuvatu

RosieJoe wrote: »

This is at least the 2nd time this has been stated in this forum. The bike must be learner legal until 2 years after your full licence application has been processed! Not 2 years from getting your first learner permit, not 2 years after passing your bike test. 2 years after processing!

i didn't say anything about the restriction starting when you apply for your permit, or when you complete you test.

i said.. "and then in 2 years after you receive your licence you can ride any bike you want"

what i should have was when you receive your FULL A licence in the post.. after it's processed... im sure the lad could have put that much together for himself though.

RosieJoe

inchiuvatu wrote: »

i didn't say anything about the restriction starting when you apply for your permit, or when you complete you test.

i said.. "and then in 2 years after you receive your licence you can ride any bike you want"

what i should have was when you receive your FULL A licence in the post.. after it's processed... im sure the lad could have put that much together for himself though.

Sorry, misread your post and said 2+2 was 4.5

its me luigi

So if i get my pass my theory test and eye test can i drive on the roads ?
basically what im saying is do i need ibt training?
Can ya get away without it ?

minidazzler

its me luigi wrote: »

So if i get my pass my theory test and eye test can i drive on the roads ?
basically what im saying is do i need ibt training?
Can ya get away without it ?

Yes you do need to have it. If you get caught trying to get away without it then you're likely off the road.

If you don't know how to ride anyway or don't have much practical experience then it's actually excellent, you do learn a lot and it starts you off on good habits.

its me luigi

Ok thanks for reply. Dont know how many comments I've read to try understand but..... i do now

Faith+1

I love these zombie threads!

Wossack

its me luigi wrote: »

So if i get my pass my theory test and eye test can i drive on the roads ?
basically what im saying is do i need ibt training?
Can ya get away without it ?

cant drive on roads until you get your learner permit, and you cant get your learner permit until you've done your ibt

cojomo2

Wossack wrote: »

cant drive on roads until you get your learner permit, and you cant get your learner permit until you've done your ibt

You can get the learner permit without doing the IBT, you are supposed to do the IBT before driving on public roads though.

Wossack

oh really? wrongly assumed otherwise..!

Mr Motorcycle

Wossack wrote: »

cant drive on roads until you get your learner permit, and you cant get your learner permit until you've done your ibt

[/QUSorry your wrong there
you cannot do IBT without a learner permit
no learner permit means no insuranceOTE]

Mr Motorcycle

you are required by law to do IBT
Even if you have paid insurance and have the insurance cert in your hand you will still be fined/banned by the gardai for no insurance because you must have an IBT cert to validate your learner permit.
The insurance companys dont care they have got your money(its up to you to comply with the law)
Also because of your age you will be affected by the new laws in 2013 you will be issued an A2 learner permit
I would also advise completing your ibt on a bigger machine A2 Is minamum 395cc because if you do it on anything smaller ypo will only be issued an IBT cert for the A1 and this would mean more conversion courses further down the road.
€500 isnt to bad for ibt you cant put a price on your safety cheaper isnt always best.
To use an old saying (if you pay peanuts you get monkeys)

bladespin

Mr Motorcycle wrote: »

Even if you have paid insurance and have the insurance cert in your hand you will still be fined/banned by the gardai for no insurance because you must have an IBT cert to validate your learner permit.

This is not true.

Mr Motorcycle wrote: »

The insurance companys dont care they have got your money(its up to you to comply with the law)

This is true, however once they have accepted payment here they are obliged to cover you, they may seek to recoup any losses through non conformence etc but that's another court case.

€500 is ridiculously expensive for IBT, check for groups etc, you can do a lot better than that.

Mr Motorcycle

I suggest that you check again. you cannot ride a motorcycle on a public road without first completing IBT (thats the law)statuary instrument 182/97

If you are stopped by the gardai you can be fined/ banned etc.

No IBT CERT = no valid learner permit

No valid learner permit= no insurance=six points

Ignorance of the law is not a valid defence in court

If you get six points on your learner permit or within two years of passing your test you will automatically be banned for six months off the road.

On the second point yes the insurance company is obliged to pay any third party but they can recoup there loss from the policy holder.

Again its up to you to comply with the law

So if you hit a pedistrian you could be looking at €20/50 grand judment agaisnt you all because you didnt have an IBT cert

bladespin

Mr Motorcycle wrote: »

I suggest that you check again. you cannot ride a motorcycle on a public road without first completing IBT (thats the law)statuary instrument 182/97

If you are stopped by the gardai you can be fined/ banned etc.

No IBT CERT = no valid learner permit

No valid learner permit= no insurance=six points

Suggest you reword your statement, if stopped you don't have a valid licence/permit but you do have insurance contrary to your post above.

No valid permit does not infer no insurance.

daenerysstormborn3

Mr Motorcycle wrote: »

you are required by law to do IBT
Even if you have paid insurance and have the insurance cert in your hand you will still be fined/banned by the gardai for no insurance because you must have an IBT cert to validate your learner permit.
The insurance companys dont care they have got your money(its up to you to comply with the law)
Also because of your age you will be affected by the new laws in 2013 you will be issued an A2 learner permit
I would also advise completing your ibt on a bigger machine A2 Is minamum 395cc because if you do it on anything smaller ypo will only be issued an IBT cert for the A1 and this would mean more conversion courses further down the road.
€500 isnt to bad for ibt you cant put a price on your safety cheaper isnt always best.
To use an old saying (if you pay peanuts you get monkeys)

Mr Motorcycle wrote: »

I suggest that you check again. you cannot ride a motorcycle on a public road without first completing IBT (thats the law)statuary instrument 182/97

If you are stopped by the gardai you can be fined/ banned etc.

No IBT CERT = no valid learner permit

No valid learner permit= no insurance=six points

Ignorance of the law is not a valid defence in court

If you get six points on your learner permit or within two years of passing your test you will automatically be banned for six months off the road.

On the second point yes the insurance company is obliged to pay any third party but they can recoup there loss from the policy holder.

Again its up to you to comply with the law

So if you hit a pedistrian you could be looking at €20/50 grand judment agaisnt you all because you didnt have an IBT cert

There is a huge difference between "you will be" and "you can be".

And the last part of your post is laughable.

Mr Motorcycle

Since 6 December 2010, you must do initial basic training (IBT) when you get your first learner permit. IBT is a 16-hour course broken into 4 modules. You cannot ride a motorcycle on the road unsupervised by your IBT instructor

from the citizensadvice.ie

but sure what would they know

Mr Motorcycle

In relation to your second comment

Its happened already
And further to that i have talked to a garda who explained the process in relation to no ibt cert and insurance etc
Traffic core so he should know

bladespin

Mr Motorcycle wrote: »

In relation to your second comment

Its happened already
And further to that i have talked to a garda who explained the process in relation to no ibt cert and insurance etc
Traffic core so he should know

I don't believe that for a second, it's certainly not down to the gardai to create new laws or assume anything, please provide details.

minidazzler

bladespin wrote: »

Suggest you reword your statement, if stopped you don't have a valid licence/permit but you do have insurance contrary to your post above.

No valid permit does not infer no insurance.

You "have" insurance, but if you aren't a legal road user then they can recoup costs through the courts if you do make a claim. Or someone makes a claim against you.

daenerysstormborn3

minidazzler wrote: »

You "have" insurance, but if you aren't a legal road user then they can recoup costs through the courts if you do make a claim. Or someone makes a claim against you.

That is a world apart from a blanket statement of "you do not have insurance".

I think Mr Motorcycle may also believe the learner drivers unaccompanied by fully licensed drivers in cars also have "no insurance".

bladespin

pixiebean22 wrote: »

That is a world apart from a blanket statement of "you do not have insurance".

I think Mr Motorcycle may also believe the learner drivers unaccompanied by fully licensed drivers in cars also have "no insurance".

I heard similar concocted notions about restriction before, it's certainly a logical deduction but court precedent defies logic and that's the law.

Peanut2011

bladespin wrote: »

Suggest you reword your statement, if stopped you don't have a valid licence/permit but you do have insurance contrary to your post above.

No valid permit does not infer no insurance.

Your insurance only covers you in accordance to your license, which means that if you do not have valid license you will not be insured despite paying and having an insurance policy. Your policy becomes null and void.

If you do not have IBT done, than your provisional licence is not valid for you to be driving on the road, hence breaking your licence requirements, hence not having a valid licence.

bladespin

Peanut2011 wrote: »

Your insurance only covers you in accordance to your license, which means that if you do not have valid license you will not be insured despite paying and having an insurance policy. Your policy becomes null and void.

You are insured if you've made payment etc, what legal argument can you use to back that statement up?

AFIK The insurance company will have the right to recoup any losses but on accepting payment they're obliged to cover at the very least third parties.

Not having the licence is no to different declaring the wrong engine size, non restriction etc.