Three Way Leaders Debate as Gaeilge - TG4 16/02/2011 @ 10:30pm

Killer Pigeon

The third in a series of leaders debates will take place on TG4 tonight (16/02/2011) as Gaeilge, featuring Enda Kenny, Eamon Gilmore and Micheál Martin. This could turn out to be quite an interesting debate and I imagine that the issue of compulsory Irish for the LC could play an important part in it. It'll be also be interesting to see what standard of Irish each of the leaders have, especially when they're put under pressure and not reading from a sheet the whole way through - not that it entirely matters in the grander scale of things.

http://tg4.ie/bearla/stud/vota/index.asp
http://tg4.ie/stud/vota/index.asp

Permabear

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c_man

Permabear wrote: »

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It was filmed this morning so that when broadcast there'll be English subtitles.

Goldstein

100% irrelevant, a waste of time, a waste of money and a pure and utter gimmick imo.

I can't think of anything less important now than three politicians struggling through a debate in broken Irish just for the sake of it.

c_man

Goldstein wrote: »

100% irrelevant, a waste of time, a waste of money and a pure and utter gimmick imo.

I can't think of anything less important now than three politicians struggling through a debate in broken Irish just for the sake of it.

Just for the record, I do believe that Enda is fluent and that Martin and Gilmore have a good grasp of the language. I wouldn't expect "broken Irish" unless they want to throw away the votes of the core audience of TG4.

Dont be at yourself

Goldstein wrote: »

100% irrelevant, a waste of time, a waste of money and a pure and utter gimmick imo.

I can't think of anything less important now than three politicians struggling through a debate in broken Irish just for the sake of it.

That's you, and that's fair enough. But for a hundred thousand people on the island, tonight's debate could be the most important night of the election.

I can understand why people would be uninterested in such a debate, but I can't understand why they'd be against it.

ixtlan

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

That's you, and that's fair enough. But for a hundred thousand people on the island, tonight's debate could be the most important night of the election.

I can understand why people would be uninterested in such a debate, but I can't understand why they'd be against it.

I'm sort of undecided on it, but I lean towards the negative view. There may be 100k people with reasonable Irish, but if we were to reduce that to the people for whom the debate would be easier to understand in Irish than in English I assume it's at most a few thousand? Maybe less than 5?

So, this really is a symbolic debate only. I guess that has merit in a way... but it is symbolic... as in we are speaking Irish because we are Irish, and want to promote Irish. It has nothing to do with needing to use Irish to communicate with a segment of the population.

ix.

Permabear

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Dont be at yourself

Permabear wrote: »

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It's not undemocratic. Democracy is not only pandering to the majority, it's about including the whole of society. And, you know, Irish is enshrined as the first language of the state in our constitution.

There are 3 leaders' debates in English. The Irish debate is not at the expense of an English-language debate, it's in addition to them.

DB74

c_man wrote: »

It was filmed this morning so that when broadcast there'll be English subtitles.

Which merely serves to highlight how pointless holding the debate in Irish actually is.

Panrich

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

That's you, and that's fair enough. But for a hundred thousand people on the island, tonight's debate could be the most important night of the election.

I can understand why people would be uninterested in such a debate, but I can't understand why they'd be against it.

Take a trip over to After Hours and you will see how. The country is gone to the dogs with corruption and people are getting vexed over a debate in Irish. If this never happened, the leaders would be out calling on doorsteps instead reaching out to even fewer of the electorate.

virmilitaris

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

It's not undemocratic. Democracy is not only pandering to the majority, it's about including the whole of society. And, you know, Irish is enshrined as the first language of the state in our constitution.

I don't disagree with you regarding this debate been useful or not and I hate to nitpick but Democracy is pandering to the majority, it is not about including the whole of society.

Ireland is a constitutional Republic with parliamentary democracy, not a Democracy. That is, our state is run as a republic, our officials are elected democratically.

But because we are a Republic that makes this debate the correct thing to do because the Irish language is protected under the constitution.

Lockstep

I'm really looking forward to it. Enda and Gilmore have excellent Irish (dunno about Martin) and it'll be fairly fascinating seeing how the three of them interact.

Even if someone is unable to fully follow what's going on, the subtitles should make it grand.

virmilitaris

Lockstep wrote: »

I'm really looking forward to it. Enda and Gilmore have excellent Irish (dunno about Martin) and it'll be fairly fascinating seeing how the three of them interact.

Even if someone is unable to fully follow what's going on, the subtitles should make it grand.

Are you fluent yourself Lockstep ? I'm just curious how many on boards are fluent. Was a poll done before ?

c_man

Lockstep wrote: »

I'm really looking forward to it. Enda and Gilmore have excellent Irish (dunno about Martin) and it'll be fairly fascinating seeing how the three of them interact.

Even if someone is unable to fully follow what's going on, the subtitles should make it grand.

It'll be all about the body language :pac:

Lockstep

virmilitaris wrote: »

Are you fluent yourself Lockstep ? I'm just curious how many on boards are fluent. Was a poll done before ?

I wouldn't say I'm fluent but my spoken/aural Irish is fairly good, was in a couple of radio politics debates as Gaeilge.
My written Irish is terrible though; I know what I want to say but get all the spelling wrong so I tend to avoid Teach na nGealt.

Currently a part-time diploma in the subject in NUIG.

Permabear

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snickerpuss

Permabear wrote: »

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I haven't seen any complex political debates thus far but hey, I don't want to ruin your hyperbole. Anyway, I see no need for this debate and have no idea why it was proposed and I say that as someone who is fluent in Irish, even have a degree in it for my sins. At least everyone gets to vent the ol anti-gaeilgeoir anger though!

Dont be at yourself

Permabear wrote: »

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That's just plain untrue. There are thousands of people brought up through Irish, both in the school and in the home. There are thousands of people that feel more comfortable communicating in Irish than in English. There are Irish language newspapers, television series, books, songs, poems, schools, shops, university courses, websites, boards and so on that people choose to use. Their very existence would indicate that a certain section of society have a preference for using Irish in their daily life.

The fact is, if nobody was interested in having a debate in Irish, it wouldn't be happening.

An Irish-language debate, which excludes the majority of the electorate, is profoundly undemocratic.

I don't follow. How is having a debate in Irish, as well as 3 debates in English, undemocratic? Is it also undemocratic for Enda Kenny to knock on a door in Clare, because it's excluding someone living in Roscommon?

virmilitaris

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

I don't follow. How is having a debate in Irish, as well as 3 debates in English, undemocratic?

Because democracy is majority rule. End of.

But as I've already stated, Ireland is not a Democracy, it is a Republic and a Republic protects it's minorities through legislation and the Irish language is in legislation.

Permabear

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darragh16

Glad to see three of the leaders taking part in a debate in one of the official languages of this country.

Permabear

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RandolphEsq

Only 17 more minutes to endure before Arsenal/Barcelona!

leincar

I have the volume turned down, a very nice Bushmills 16 year old in hand, and Queen's 'A Day at the Races' cd on in the background.

With the volume down, you tend to look most at body language. This time Gilmore looks the most comfortable, Kenny seems adaquate, although you still get the feeling that he dosen't want to be there, but the way Martin is hunched over the desk and putting his hand up so much smacks of desperation.

Actually, its a great way to watch a debate.

leincar

Oh yeah, the 16 year old is whiskey, just in case you were thinking anything else.

Jim Stark

I don't know the womans name, but she's being a much better host than Kenny or Browne, and much easier on the eyes too.

namloc1980

Jim Stark wrote: »

I don't know the womans name, but she's being a much better host than Kenny or Browne, and much easier on the eyes too.

She's far superior to the plank.

leincar

Jim Stark wrote: »

I don't know the womans name, but she's being a much better host than Kenny or Browne, and much easier on the eyes too.

Agreed she dosen't seem to be taking any rubbish from them.

Permabear

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namloc1980

She's taking no waffle from Kenny!

Badabing

IMO Gilmore and Martin doing well, Kenny brutal no wonder Mortell doesn't want him to do debates.

Permabear

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cornbb

Meh. Its a valid way to hold a debate. The teanga isn't holding them back. The subtitles let the rest of us know what's going on. The body language is still there. Its every bit as pointless as the other debates but not any worse

namloc1980

Kenny is brutal. He's lucky only a small number of people are watching this.

Sad Professor

Gilmore winning IMO. Kenny is waffling and falling back to his 5 point plan when stuck. And the only thing from Martin that is coming across is his constant claw like gestures. The media will probably give it to Kenny though just for turning up.

Badabing

Kenny doing badly now he can't answer simple questions, saying Martin can't speak Irish wtf!

RandolphEsq

Why the fcuk does Martin go on about how FF will make everything better when they have shown that they will fcuk everything up? If I had the power to wipe them out with one click of my fingers I would

retalivity

Labharann mise gailge agus bearla sa bhaile, agus tá suim mór agam i seo.
Tá Gilmore ag deanamh iontach maith anseo, níos fearr na an beirt eile.

Tá kenny cosúil le fear na labhrann gaielge roimhe...

gizmo555

There's a lot of arguments for and against compulsory Irish in schools, but the most bonkers must be the case that Gilmore and Martin are making.

"Everyone in the country must be forced to study Irish so as to protect the incomes of people providing student accomodation in the Gaeltacht . . ."

leincar

cornbb wrote: »

Meh. Its a valid way to hold a debate. The teanga isn't holding them back. The subtitles let the rest of us know what's going on. The body language is still there. Its every bit as pointless as the other debates but not any worse

Do excuse my ignorance, but what is teanga? I really don't know.

cornbb

retalivity wrote: »

Labharann mise gailge agus bearla sa bhaile, agus tá suim mór agam i seo.
Tá Gilmore ag deanamh iontach maith anseo, níos fearr na an beirt eile.

Tá kenny cosúil le fear na labhrann gaielge roimhe...

Gilmore doing better in the debate or doing better at speaking Irish? He's doing terribly in the debate IMO... full of soundbites, and when he was asked about tourism he could only talk about broadband.

To my ears their Irish is all adequate at least... not that it matters in the grand scheme of things of course...

inabina

whats the name of the bird presenting? kinda nice...

Sir Oxman

Permabear wrote: »

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Absolute rubbish.
Expectations must not be high in your household if you think people cannot possibly follow a tv broadcast using subtitles. That's pure laziness.

Whether any of these debates add to anything is moot. I don't think so, but have it recording away and will watch and gasp!, follow the subtitles.

cornbb

leincar wrote: »

Do excuse my ignorance, but what is teanga? I really don't know.

It means "language".

retalivity

cornbb wrote: »

Gilmore doing better in the debate or doing better at speaking Irish? He's doing terribly in the debate IMO... full of soundbites, and when he was asked about tourism he could only talk about broadband.

To my ears their Irish is all adequate at least... not that it matters in the grand scheme of things of course...

iad beirt

Jim Stark

Ok well the debate's over, thought Kenny stole it. Gilmore did ok too. Martin, same as usual, just griping for shots at Enda!

Brenireland

Permabear wrote: »

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A historic disaster.

loldog

Rinne an triur acu ar fheabhas, cheap me go mbeadh an clar do-fheiceailte ach labhair siad go nadurtha liofa an triur acu.

.

Gregor Samsa

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

There are Irish language newspapers, television series, books, songs, poems, schools, shops, university courses, websites, boards and so on that people choose to use. Their very existence would indicate that a certain section of society have a preference for using Irish in their daily life.

A certain very small section. Irish language everything has to be subsidised to the hilt by the State to make it viable enough to exist.

I'm not necessarily saying it's not worth spending the money on - but it certainly isn't the market that's keeping the Irish language alive.

Permabear

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