About to start learning HTML and CSS

gnolan

Hi,

I'm about to start learning HTML and CSS on the w3schools website. Does anyone have any advice for me starting out? Are there any specific programs i should download that may make my life a bit easier (eg. text editors)?

I am already familiar with a small amount of HTML and CSS but would like to learn it comprehensively. My aim, obviously, is to able to design websites. I see on the w3schools site, options to learn XML, browser scripting, server scripting etc. Are these necessary for web design?

Thanks

Pixelcraft

stick to front end for the moment, forget about xml unless it's a path you want to go down. Cannot recommend this book enough, it will give you a basis in modern approaches to html & css, also there's some good reference/introduction books at this site

Abelloid

I'm just starting out too and find Notepad++ a great tool for writing and editing code.

I also thought W3 was a great resource until somebody on here (thanks) posted a link to this - http://w3fools.com/ and http://www.tizag.com/

W3 is handy in that you can edit and test code instantly but do have a look at W3Fools too.

tricky D

While w3fools raises some issues, w3schools is still a good starting resource. Nobody said it was perfect and some of the criticisms are a bit too pedantic. It certainly beats the pants off most real world courses out there which cost an arm and a leg to learn out-of-date, product oriented and non-standard crap. The fact that w3schools has those kinds of errors shows how difficult the last few percent on the learning curve are. The only really perfect place is w3c itself, but if you've been on the standards development mailing lists you'll appreciate the imperfections that exist even there.

Tizag looks good.

gnolan

Thanks for the replies.

I had heard of Notepad ++ and was planning on downloading that.

As for w3schools, not being particularly au fait with HTML and CSS, i didn't realise there were any problems with its content. If I were to concentrate on learning the content from one website what would you recommend? I know people will probably say use as many resources as you can. I plan to do that if i run into trouble understanding a particular element; but i would like to go through one website's content from start to finish.

So w3schools, tizag, or another?

Abelloid

I would still start with W3schools, as I said above the ability to edit code and instantly see the results makes learning much easier IMHO.

Trojan

As tricky_D mentions, there are issues with w3s but they're not massive, and you'll get a lot of of it. I'd use a combination of all of the above, plus just saving a text file as test.html on your desktop, open it in a web browser and text editor simultaneously and just use Save & Reload to experiment.

Placebo

w3c is great for looking up correct functions and quick bland examples.
Kinda like a basic PHP.net for html/javascript. Thats what i use it for anyway

gnolan

Pixelcraft recommended Hardboiled Web Design. Can anyone else recommend some books. I'd like to buy at least one and i may as well make it a good one.

I've never really like the layout of the "dummies" books so would probably prefer to avoid that line of books.

strandroad

Have a look at Build Your Own Web Site The Right Way Using HTML & CSS and HTML Dog: The Best-Practice Guide to XHTML and CSS. They both guide you to build properly constructed, standard compliant websites.

HTML Dog website also has several tutorials on the same subject.

W3schools and Sitepoint are both good, but I guess they are better for quick reference than for procedural tutorials. For learning, nothing beats building your own website You just need to work with a guide like the ones listed above.

síofra

I did a module on XHTML in college and we used this book:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/HTML-XHTML-CSS-Visual-QuickStart/dp/0321430840/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1298023336&sr=1-1

It's clear, concise and very easy to understand.

gnolan

Ok, thanks, there's a good few choices for me there. Should i be looking at buying a text that includes HTML5 in it? Is HTML5 dramatically different to HTML4?

strandroad

I'd leave HTML5 for later, it's something you'll have to study but not just now. Even CSS3 is not fully supported across browsers yet. Start with "regular" (X)HTML/CSS first to get good grounding before you move on.

Pixelcraft

I disagree, start with html5, learn all the CSS you want, just be aware of browser interpretation. There's really no point learning one set of syntax when it's been simplified with html5

strandroad

I guess it really depends on what the person learning is aiming for.

If you have the luxury of supporting the newest/decent browsers only, you can absolutely go ahead with HTML5. Especially if you are your own boss.

If you want to support a larger clientele or work in corporate environment where you might be expected to code for older browsers, going the HTML5 route (with all the necessary hacks) is a very roundabout way of doing things and your employer policy might explicitly require more classic coding; plus you should be prepared to debug older sites as part of your job. I know that in my company a person who agrees to work in HTML5/CSS3 exclusively would not be hired, as we work with a lot of institutions whose IT departments refuse to update their browsers, plus we have a range of legacy web applications which require occasional work as they are still on offer - new standards have to be applied selectively, with fallback provided.

Pixelcraft

All the necessary 'hacks' as you call them = one solution - modernizr. Perfectly acceptable.

HTML5 does not mean you're ignoring support for older browsers, this is a common misconception.

Also I've never ever heard of anyone working with CSS3 exclusively! You couldn't even style a site without other CSS attributes.

strandroad

Modernizr won't help much if you need to cater for clients who have JS turned off (we do); even ignoring the practicality issues of applying such a solution to a wide catalogue of existing dynamic web applications just for the sake of having HTML5 on board.

By CSS3 exclusively I mean that at times we still need to use older image based CSS solutions etc even though the same could be achieved with a line or two of CSS3.

What I'm trying to say is that in an environment like this there is no escape from knowing your legacy standards. In some jobs you can afford to push the envelope, in others it's all about classic foolproofing

Pixelcraft

That's an incredibly specific case. Obviously design to users needs, but in your case that's far less than 1% of users, and for the sake of basing an education not really relevant.

damoth

I'd recommend 'Head First HTML with CSS & XHTML' as an excellent book to start with...

Amazon Link

gnolan

OP here again.

So i've gone through a good bit of w3schools and i am currently concentrating on "Sam's Teach Yourself HTML and CSS" at the moment. It's going pretty well and i've understood nearly everything i've come across.

I am using photshop for image editing but find it is almost completely useless (or else i am) for any kind of image creation or design. How do people get around this? I am reasonably adept with AutoCAD. Is using the two (PS and AutoCAD) in conjunction a common practice?

Fanny Cradock

It really depends what you are doing but I've found Photoshop to be a very powerful program for design. But perhaps you should look into Illustrator and Indesign.

strandroad

Photoshop is a design tool, but it might be an overkill for what you need. If you're used to object oriented design, give Adobe Fireworks a try - it's much more streamlined, more affordable too.

PeakOutput

gnolan wrote: »

OP here again.

So i've gone through a good bit of w3schools and i am currently concentrating on "Sam's Teach Yourself HTML and CSS" at the moment. It's going pretty well and i've understood nearly everything i've come across.

I am using photshop for image editing but find it is almost completely useless (or else i am) for any kind of image creation or design. How do people get around this? I am reasonably adept with AutoCAD. Is using the two (PS and AutoCAD) in conjunction a common practice?

photoshop isnt meant to be used as a design programme really thats what illustrator is for

you should combine the two, I do all my line drawings and stuff in illustrator and then import into photoshop for colour, shading and all that jazz

gnolan

How does Illustrator compare to AutoCAD? The reason i ask is that i have AutoCAD and know how to use it reasonably well. I wouldn't want to shell out money and time buying Illustrator and learning how to use it if i could make use of my experience with AutoCAD.

PeakOutput

gnolan wrote: »

How does Illustrator compare to AutoCAD? The reason i ask is that i have AutoCAD and know how to use it reasonably well. I wouldn't want to shell out money and time buying Illustrator and learning how to use it if i could make use of my experience with AutoCAD.

I have no idea about auto cad but

illustrator integrates perfectly with photoshop, auto cad might not be able to output files in a format photoshop recognizes

there is a 30 day trial for all creative suite programmes on adobe.com as far asa i know and you can probably get 'free trials' elsewhere for illustrator to try it out before you buy

lil_lisa

OP, I find the best way to get to know an image editing software is to look up examples of random tutorials online. People go step by step to make effects, which may not be what you want but will help you understand what all the tools are and how they can be used.

stephenpalmer

Your best bet is just to practice practice practice.. its not the easiest thing to learn.. most of the stuff you dont even have to remember because you can just google the solution

I started learning HTML etc in December and have a couple of sites live on the web as well as a nice portfolio of domain names.

For hosting, domains purchasing id definitely recommend GoDaddy.. having everything together makes life soo much easier. Its also relatively easy to use!
They also give great discounts!

Anyways enough praise for them, You get a lot of information from posting in forums, chat etc.. thats the stuff you cant really learn on w3schools.. but best of luck.. any questions give me a shout.. ill answer them to the best of my ability!

El Hamos

I agree with Pixelcraft here. And his recommended book is top notch. If your going to read anything or be influenced by anyone, let it be Andy Clarke.

PeakOutput

El Hamos wrote: »

I agree with Pixelcraft here. And his recommended book is top notch. If your going to read anything or be influenced by anyone, let it be Andy Clarke.

I ordered that book along with a few others over the weekend and while it seems good so far it isnt really aimed at beginners is it? and its not meant to be a reference for html

It might be worth buying but I don't think it should be THE book a beginner buys but then I havn't read half of it

Placebo

i really dont think any book is necessary or dare is say adequate at this day in age. A few articles on something smashing magazine is all you need to gear up.
Perhaps have a look at lynda, that site has some amazing video tutorials

Pixelcraft

PeakOutput wrote: »

I ordered that book along with a few others over the weekend and while it seems good so far it isnt really aimed at beginners is it? and its not meant to be a reference for html

Maybe not, but it's the best I've read for modern practices - definitely pick it up if you plan to work in the industry. As I mentioned earlier the alistapart books are great for reference, nice and concise too.

Be careful with some resources also, there's a lot of mention of w3schools - check this http://w3fools.com

PeakOutput

Pixelcraft wrote: »

Maybe not, but it's the best I've read for modern practices - definitely pick it up if you plan to work in the industry. As I mentioned earlier the alistapart books are great for reference, nice and concise too.

Be careful with some resources also, there's a lot of mention of w3schools - check this http://w3fools.com

Ye I am not a total beginner so I find the book very good so far but for a complete novice it might be a bit much thats all