What is the difference between an Irish Republican and an Irish Nationalist?

pablomakaveli

walrusgumble wrote: »

First off, any argument made by me as to why there should be a United Ireland was never an attempt to convince you. It would be a waste of time.I simply responded to your specific reasons for not wanting one, because, respectively, in my opinion, are unfounded

THe reason that it is unachievable now or until the next few decades is because of attitudes like your good self. I don't mean to be disrespectful, it's your view and I accept that and you are not the only one with this view, but it's based on self interest. Don't get me wrong, I am in no way suggesting that you don't care about your country etc. "What we have we hold" or "not an inch" mantra is not alien to the south as it was/is in the north You see what's going on in the North now with the forthcoming elections; the main unionist parties are trying to join together, despite decades of bitching and sniping at each other soley to make sure that a Republican, who represents or claims to represent a substantial amount of people, never becomes the First Minister. The "terrorist" tag is obviously one reason, but it is also the fact that the Unionist fears that their lot will loose the prestige and power, despite the fact that all decisions must be made together. It nearly happened during the last Westminister elections. This, without any consideration that a Republican will also want what's best for his region first regardless of whether he/she is in the UK or Ireland, maybe no different to Craigavon's idea of Northern Ireland's place in the Empire. You really have to feel sorry for the Alliance party.

With regard to the concessions, the biggest concession for Unionists would have been the fact that they agreed leaving the UK and uniting with this country. This then completely gets rid of the whole reason for their existence, ie Unionism and Loyality to the Crown. Think of their priviledge positions in society, all gone. Their is, like for example the reason the FAI and IFA will never agree to an United Soccer team; too much loss of power, votes etc. Despite the fact that one team may achieve more. Assumingly, the Unionist would then pledge full allegiance to an All Ireland and want whats best for the country as a whole. Tag lines of Republicanism etc would be then irrelevant. I say a united Ireland would give the people in the North far more say on how their community works than by sending them to Westminister, where they are no bigger than say Manchester, London etc.

I am not one bit surprised, as I pointed out in my first post, that your real concern (just a sham you wrong in things like culture etc) is possibly the loss of seats in parliament to cater for the north (not just the unionists) and possible more Belfast influence. The good people in the People's Republic of Cork won't like that. Has anyone wondered whether it would be a good thing for the whole country? Sending the TD's on an oul spin up the M1 might be novel, the Ivor Calley's of this world will have no qualms putting in the expenses. Naturally, there would hardly be a complete system of one country one parliament straight away, maybe some kind of federal, or maybe all provinces would have some kind of parliament/provincial country county with three-four representative going to the National Parliament.

This is always the big problem with the likes of Sinn Féin. They talk of a united ireland and their assumption it just right, but never talk specifically about the valid concerns you have raised and more importantly their vison as to how it will work. It should not really matter a damn where in the country our parliament should sit. It could be in a Halting site for all I care, so long as it is getting out proper provisions and running the country properly, on behalf of the people. Anyway, its Brussels where alot of swing is coming from. On the other hand, does small counties really need 3-4 TD's. As big as say Dun Laoighre is, is it justified that we have 4-5 TD's for that area for a National Parliament?Would Ireland then get an extra vote for European Council & Parliament , taking away NI's proportion from the UK (Oh how they would llllloooooooveeeee it) Would their be more justificiation to hold onto our Commissioner with nearly 2 million extra people? How will Dublin loose it sature? Its an established European City and provided the business heads work hard, it will succeed in competition. Whilst some Dubliners will suggest the contrary, people outside the "pale" might suggests that it gets too much attention in national matters and funds and jobs, and obviously infrastructure needs to be spread out more (ah yes decentralisation, oh dear, very badly planned out, well done Charlie Mc)

Returning to your concessions, do you still hold on the anthem and flag ( i have to admit, that is one that I would want to keep, but it would not be a deal breaker). Will "Irish" (aren't Unionist also Irish?) culture suffer more attacks than it does now, with an United Ireland?

I think your underestimating what you have said is the self interest of people in general. Most people will always be more concerned with what affects them in their day to day lives with what will effect the nation as a whole. This is only natural. If people see a UI as something that will lead to for example higher taxes for them, or seeing the funds from the government for local infrastructure, local schools etc being reduced because it then needs to be diverted to NI as well, they will be more likely to oppose it. And even in NI the average person there may feel that their quality of life may decrease because of a UI.

As you've said if the Unionists opt to join with the rest of Ireland the raison d'etre of their political movement and their own tradition is gone. I find it very difficult to see them abandoning that, even decades down the road. Even if a UI would benefit them and offer them more political representation than they currently do in Westminster, it would still be asking them to accept something that is completly against what they stand for. They would become the minority in a UI and i doubt they'd be willing to accept that.