Dublin Bus is it Recession Proof???

fiftypencehead

The answer is yes it is Recession proof.....
If I am right why have they put up the fare by 0.05c???

They are the only bus service serving the city so why up the prices?? And before you do don't give me that "the rising cost of diesel" bol**x, don't bother. Because they have plenty in the coffers to cover such a rise!! :eek:

L1011

Firstly, its not. It requires subsidies to operate.

It has had to cut routes and the number of vehicles to keep within its subsidies.

Also, fuel has gone up by around 50% in two years.

dowlingm

fiftypencehead if you know how much they have "in the coffers" shouldn't you be able to answer your own question?

fiftypencehead

No competition.... The last how many years??
So don't give me subsidies.... Please!!
You must work for them..... :cool:

fiftypencehead

dowlingm if I knew that I'd probably my my bus journey FOC....

How long are they in operation with no competition???

stop

fiftypencehead wrote: »

dowlingm if I knew that I'd probably my my bus journey FOC....

I think you accidentally a word..

fiftypencehead

Sorry... I think i'd expect my bus journey to work to be FOC ( free of charge)..... :eek:

antoinolachtnai

The problem is that passenger numbers on Dublin Bus are very weak. They are at or below 2001 levels. As it turns out, the recession has hit DB worse than most. You would expect that the business would be more resilient to the recession, but it isn't.

fiftypencehead

Firstly let us take the company. It is State run and operates at a loss. In the free market system within which virtually the whole planet operates, if you do not generate a profit you are inevitably doomed, and in a majority of cases even when you make a profit you are doomed because your business model is not sustainable.

Now, some people, mostly rich people will say things like "Its public transport, you should be happy to have any kind of service, regardless of a five cent increase". These people are too self obsessed to care about the bigger picture. Public transport is poor people transport, with very very few exceptions, less than 2%. Back to Dublin Bus, it is poorly run, inefficient and unaccountable. When compared to other states and their internal public transport, Ireland, once again becomes an international embarrassment. I could give examples but even I am a slave to the system and have to work, so therefore I don't have the time.

Finally, regarding the price hike itself, this is a very common after effect of the bank bailout and IMF involvement in any country you can name. In such cases, all public services are eventually privatised, these include, water/electricity/health/education/transport/ Big profit margins are desired. Some people (mostly rich people again, because they have the most invested in the system) will say this is a good development. It will improve service if it is run privately. These people fail to understand that PROFIT IS KING and efficiency is only desired when it equals MORE PROFIT. In other words, its a lose lose system.

To give an example, homelessness is not homelessness. A home is a feeling, an abstract notion. The core issue is HOUSELESSNESS. Now how many empty houses are there in this country? So why are people homeless/houseless. There is no PROFIT in housing them...... Bit off the reservation, but I'm just making a point...

Victor

fiftypencehead wrote: »

You must work for them..... :cool:

Can we raise the level of debate please?

---

Recessions can be hard on public transport providers as they lose off-peak customers (people going on leisure trips) but are stuck with providing peak-only services (people going to work or study).

fiftypencehead

I just did VICTOR!!

What time does your shift start....

fiftypencehead

But when it comes to a public service the number availing of it is irrelevant. If we all had universal healthcare there would be less people sick. Should that affect the service????

I think not....

Recession is a word used to scare people into spending less, but I can tell you it hasn't scared them enough, you should have been on Grafton St / Henry St yesterday!!!

28064212

fiftypencehead wrote: »

But when it comes to a public service the number availing of it is irrelevant.

Hang on, you want them to run at a profit, but the numbers using it are irrelevant? What?

fiftypencehead

No, I don't want them to run a profit at all. I don't want them to care about money whatsoever.

It should be about the best service for the most people. Unfortunately the system demands profit.

We are all in a money trap that goes nowhere, It is called cyclical consumption. Look it up People.

In one sentence; in a free market, capitalist monetary system THERE IS NO SOLUTION.

If people have read my mail I told them what was wrong with both profit and NON PROFIT. I just want what best for the decent people who go to work each day, not for the people who sit on their asses taking every hand out given......

The TV3 programme, "am I better off on the dole"..... To f**kin right you are!! :mad:

28064212

fiftypencehead wrote: »

No, I don't want them to run a profit at all. I don't want them to care about money whatsoever.

It should be about the best service for the most people. Unfortunately the system demands profit.

We are all in a money trap that goes nowhere, It is called cyclical consumption. Look it up People.

In one sentence; in a free market, capitalist monetary system THERE IS NO SOLUTION.

If people have read my mail I told them what was wrong with both profit and NON PROFIT. I just want what best for the decent people who go to work each day, not for the people who sit on their asses taking every hand out given......
The TV3 programme, "am I better off on the dole"..... To f**kin right you are!! :mad:

So outside of "a free market, capitalist monetary system", what's your solution?

Jaysoose

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

The problem is that passenger numbers on Dublin Bus are very weak. They are at or below 2001 levels. As it turns out, the recession has hit DB worse than most. You would expect that the business would be more resilient to the recession, but it isn't.

The recession has nothing to do with DB passenger numbers reducing this is all of their of doing. The service is dire.

EricPraline

Jaysoose wrote: »

The recession has nothing to do with DB passenger numbers reducing this is all of their of doing. The service is dire.

Wouldn't say that it has no effect at all. Although you'd expect that the fall off in casual commuters and reduced number of working commuters might be somewhat mitigated by an increase in commuters who can no longer afford private transport, particularly as the price of petrol and insurance increases.

On the other hand it's hard to believe that a business that repeatedly cuts the extent and consistency of its service while increasing its prices won't see a fall-off in revenue. What do DB expect? :rolleyes:

mikemac

They're losing passengers through their own fault!

My annual ticket cost quite a few hundred and I gave it up.
Get just twenty people like me and we're going over €10,000.

But use the 78A some day and you'll know why.

With the messing on that 78A, nobody should pay for that service.

Irish Rail and the Luas have security, can't they use them? Can't say I've ever seen security or an inspector on a bus.

Jaysoose

EricPraline wrote: »

Wouldn't say that it has no effect at all. Although you'd expect that the fall off in casual commuters and reduced number of working commuters might be somewhat mitigated by an increase in commuters who can no longer afford private transport, particularly as the price of petrol and insurance increases.

On the other hand it's hard to believe that a business that repeatedly cuts the extent and consistency of its service while increasing its prices won't see a fall-off in revenue. What do DB expect? :rolleyes:

You would almost expect an increase of public transport users trying to keep costs down in a recession..the only reason to not use the public transport/bus service is if its not fit for purpose.

Look how many people are still driving to work even though the cost of running a car are through the roof..its a joke.

dowlingm

fiftypencehead wrote: »

No, I don't want them to run a profit at all. I don't want them to care about money whatsoever. It should be about the best service for the most people. Unfortunately the system demands profit.

You are Richard Boyd Barrett and I claim my five Pounds.

The reality is that DB doesn't make a profit, it makes a loss and if fares don't go up it will make a bigger loss and given the funding model the Irish taxpayer generally will pay for it rather than Dublin ones specifically.

If you want to dig out the figures for fare recovery (in Toronto for instance the fare box provides about 70% of operating cost) and compare to similar sized cities and make a case that government should provide more base funding, or schemes where all homes paying a property tax to DCC and the other councils will get one free transferable transit pass, good for you but simply ranting and claiming that anyone with a different opinion works for DB is just wasting everyone's time.

CIE

fiftypencehead wrote: »

The answer is yes it is Recession proof.....
If I am right why have they put up the fare by 0.05c???

The fares went up by a twentieth of a cent?

Run_to_da_hills

feelingstressed wrote: »

They're losing passengers through their own fault!

My annual ticket cost quite a few hundred and I gave it up.
Get just twenty people like me and we're going over €10,000.

But use the 78A some day and you'll know why.

With the messing on that 78A, nobody should pay for that service.

Irish Rail and the Luas have security, can't they use them? Can't say I've ever seen security or an inspector on a bus.

All Dublin Bus double deckers are fitted with eight HD fish eye CCTV cameras, three upstairs, four down stairs and one forward facing. This along with the introduction of the integrated registered smart card system will mean that Big Brother will know exactly who is on the bus at any given time.

If the above were used correctly there should be less need for extra security staff as the culprits could be identified on the spot and be arrested at their doorsteps.

Vandalism on busses has already dropped by over 75% in parts of London where TFL has introduced the registered Oyster card program among schools.

pajor

CIE wrote: »

The fares went up by a twentieth of a cent?

They went up by 5c and 10c depending on the distance. Surprisingly notable when paying

ctrl-alt-delete

I know it is all down to personal experience with these things but Dublin Bus isn't all that bad for me.

I have experience of a 'free' network in the North East of England and I regret every bad word I ever said about Dublin Bus.

Now I know Dublin is a capital city, but getting on buses in North East England brings me back to getting on buses in Dublin in the 1980's.

I have never experienced a new bus over here, and when I say new I mean less than 5 years old. It is a horrible service where getting one bus somewhere and getting the cheaper return ticket limits you to the use of that company on the way back.

The cost is not cheap either, it cost me £4.50 yesterday for a return ticket with the journey time being 10 minutes each way. That is dearer than my usual 25a return route in Dublin. There is not even a decent ticketing system over here.

I suppose what I'm getting at is that I'd rather keep paying 5cent rises here and there than the money being taken out of the fleet care or whatever other option there is. Again this is my experience talking, but I think there is great value for money on the elements of the Dublin Bus Network I use.

LXFlyer

feelingstressed wrote: »

They're losing passengers through their own fault!

My annual ticket cost quite a few hundred and I gave it up.
Get just twenty people like me and we're going over €10,000.

But use the 78A some day and you'll know why.

With the messing on that 78A, nobody should pay for that service.

Irish Rail and the Luas have security, can't they use them? Can't say I've ever seen security or an inspector on a bus.

Does this not say more about society in general than just the bus service?

AlekSmart

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

I know it is all down to personal experience with these things but Dublin Bus isn't all that bad for me.

I have experience of a 'free' network in the North East of England and I regret every bad word I ever said about Dublin Bus.

Now I know Dublin is a capital city, but getting on buses in North East England brings me back to getting on buses in Dublin in the 1980's.

I have never experienced a new bus over here, and when I say new I mean less than 5 years old. It is a horrible service where getting one bus somewhere and getting the cheaper return ticket limits you to the use of that company on the way back.

The cost is not cheap either, it cost me £4.50 yesterday for a return ticket with the journey time being 10 minutes each way. That is dearer than my usual 25a return route in Dublin. There is not even a decent ticketing system over here.

I suppose what I'm getting at is that I'd rather keep paying 5cent rises here and there than the money being taken out of the fleet care or whatever other option there is. Again this is my experience talking, but I think there is great value for money on the elements of the Dublin Bus Network I use.

Very good post ctrl-alt-delete.

Dublin Bus does have failings,but is far from being the basket-case we (being Irish) delight in propagating.

We are regularly treated to comparisons with London,Paris,Berlin,Stolkholm or other far flung places with excellent (Integrated) Public Transport systems.

Dublin Bus is but a single company attempting to portray that it is the Capital City`s system...which of course it`s not,as we don`t have one....

However,as c-a-d identifies,there are significant parts of the UK where deregulation cut a swathe through the notion of "Public" Transport,after all it was for "losers",and losing in Mrs Thatchers brave new World,was simply not going to be tolerated.

It`s worth noting that Dublin bus has no difficulty disposing of it`s several hundred "redundant" vehicles into the UK market.

Therefore it`s more than possible c-a-d,that the next elderly hi-floor,steamed up window`d Bus you meet "oop Norf" will have come from our green and pleasant land.

Any perusal of the Bus Industry trade press will reveal an industry where the Local Authorities,who fund it,and the Central Authorities who enforce it`s rules spend huge amounts of time and money bringing operators to courts and tribunal hearings for transgressions of the Law.

Defective Vehicles,unqualified Staff,even Company Directors who are barred from that post figure quite regularly in reports of proceedings as the industry staggers on towards an increasingly bleak future.

For all of our problems,I would suggest that our basic system is far fitter for it`s purpose than many of the role-models being suggested.

What we lack is an understanding of the "System" principle which is now the single greatest bar to us achieving any improvements in the general level of PT.

Nowhere is this more apparent than Cherrywood Luas and the "Danse Macabre" being carried on between all of the relevant agencies,eachj one studiously ignoring the other...:mad:

For me however,if we need role models it just has to be Edinburgh......:eek:

Lothian Buses,the best at what they do,and in Public Ownership too....;)

mikemac

lxflyer wrote: »

Does this not say more about society in general than just the bus service?

You're right

Was just giving my experience as a paying customer and customer have expectations.
I thought the service was frequent, the drivers were great including one legend who greets everyone and everyone know his name.
And they managed a fine job in the snow over the last few months

I just picked one aspect and if Dublin Bus find they are losing customers on certain routes I don't see why they do nothing about it.
If they have these CCTV cameras they are aware

Irish Rail and the Luas already did something

dowlingm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

All Dublin Bus double deckers are fitted with eight HD fish eye CCTV cameras, three upstairs, four down stairs and one forward facing. This along with the introduction of the integrated registered smart card system will mean that Big Brother will know exactly who is on the bus at any given time.

As long as the cameras are working/recording... :rolleyes: I doubt that all cameras functional will not be a "no-dispatch" item when buses are being checked for the daily run.

mydiscworld

Anyone know if they are also going to increase the cost of the annual dublin bus ticket, currently €980 before the tax savings kick in?

Run_to_da_hills

dowlingm wrote: »

As long as the cameras are working/recording... :rolleyes: I doubt that all cameras functional will not be a "no-dispatch" item when buses are being checked for the daily run.

They do work, whether they are switched on or not is another question.