Back to Work Enterprise Allowance

Barack Obama

Hi. I've been out of work since last October and considering setting up a company on my own. Obviously, you loose your social welfare payments once you do this but there is a Back to Work Enterprise Allowance scheme whereby you receive a portion of your social welfare payment for a period of time.

This would be a great help in starting up as income would be zero for a period of time. The big problem is that to be eligible for this, you must be on the live register for 12 months so I am not eligible.
http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Publications/SW92/Pages/2WhocanqualifyforBTWEA.aspx

Does anyone know if this rule is set in stone or is there any room for manoeuvre? The risk is simply too big for me and unfortunately I would be better sitting on my backside until October rather then setting up now. Does anyone else receive this payment and do you have any advice?

Thanks!!:)

dbran

Hi

AFAIK the rules are pretty much set in stone. It is for long term unemployed only.

There is the short term enterprise allowance which you are entitled to receive if you are eligible for Job Seekers benefit http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_and_work/back_to_work_enterprise_allowance.html

There is no minimum qualifying period but it is due for a maximum of 1 year and it ceases once your entitlement to Jobseekers Benefit expires. Thereafter you will have to apply for jobseekers allowance and the back to work allowance if appropriate.

Kind Regards

dbran

ghouldaddy

Have you tried talking to the social about it? They were reasonably sound for me and added up both my times on the live register to make up the months required.

Barack Obama

dbran wrote: »

Hi

AFAIK the rules are pretty much set in stone. It is for long term unemployed only.

There is the short term enterprise allowance which you are entitled to receive if you are eligible for Job Seekers benefit http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_and_work/back_to_work_enterprise_allowance.html

There is no minimum qualifying period but it is due for a maximum of 1 year and it ceases once your entitlement to Jobseekers Benefit expires. Thereafter you will have to apply for jobseekers allowance and the back to work allowance if appropriate.

Kind Regards

dbran

Thanks for that dbran - I'll look into it

Barack Obama

ghouldaddy wrote: »

Have you tried talking to the social about it? They were reasonably sound for me and added up both my times on the live register to make up the months required.

I enquired last month in Maynooth DoFSA office when I signed on. I was given a small booklet which stated that you needed to be in receipt of payments for 2 years. Clearly not much help if they are giving out information that is over a year out of date!!

Acoshla

dbran wrote: »

Hi

AFAIK the rules are pretty much set in stone. It is for long term unemployed only.

There is the short term enterprise allowance which you are entitled to receive if you are eligible for Job Seekers benefit http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_and_work/back_to_work_enterprise_allowance.html

There is no minimum qualifying period but it is due for a maximum of 1 year and it ceases once your entitlement to Jobseekers Benefit expires. Thereafter you will have to apply for jobseekers allowance and the back to work allowance if appropriate.

Yep I am on that, applied originally for the BTWEA as that was the only one I knew of but they call both of them the BTWEA when corresponding with me, as in I am on the short term but any correspondance refers to BTWEA so don't be put off if you think you aren't eligible for the longer term one.

I am receiving mine for 9 months because that is all I have the credits for, but as I was tested for both the amount I'm getting works out relatively the same as the longer term/smaller amount that was calculated for the other.

iMax

Hi OP,

I'm currently in the middle of applying for the short term BTWEA. It's a different scheme & only guarantees payment up to the end of your JSB. Like you, I'm out since the end of October, so I can get it up to the end of this coming October.

Takes about a month to sort out. There's also a grant of up to €1,000 available (discretionary) to assist with the likes of insurance or business cards etc.

AstonMartin

You cant get rent supplement. If the business fails you cant get jsa as you were self employed. The grant is near impossible to get and takes a long time to get processed so dont factor that in.

its a poor system if the business fails or if you dont have savings or access to capital.

Barack Obama

iMax wrote: »

Hi OP,

I'm currently in the middle of applying for the short term BTWEA. It's a different scheme & only guarantees payment up to the end of your JSB. Like you, I'm out since the end of October, so I can get it up to the end of this coming October.

Takes about a month to sort out. There's also a grant of up to €1,000 available (discretionary) to assist with the likes of insurance or business cards etc.

I think we are in the same boat. My fear is that if the startup fails (or struggles badly) I will have no financial assistance or anything to fall back on. What happens after the term of your JSB? Can you then apply for the full term BTWEA?

It's a sad thing to say, but I may be better off doing nothing and waiting until October.

iMax

OK, this is my scenario. I'm three/four months on JSB. This will run out in eight/nine months. At that point I have to apply for JSA (means tested). I don't know if you're the same. There's no automatic switch over, you have to apply & they means test you, if you pass, you get. As simple as that, (bugs the hell out of me I know three people on the dole for up to 20 years & quite happily receiving it without condition, but that's another story).

However. I asked the DSW what the conditions were & unfortunately (or fortunately, whichever way you look at it), my spouse earns 2.5k (before tax) over the limit, so I won't get JSA.

Now in the time I've been laid off, I've applied for about 110 positions. I've received 4 PFOs & had two interviews. The rest I didn't hear anything from. I'm still waiting to hear back from the two interviews (seperate places), not too hopeful on those.

Although, there is the fear that the startup might fail or struggle, I can't do it thinking like that. As far as I'm concerned, it's going to work. I know it's going to be a struggle. I know it's going to be long hours & hard work. but it IS going to work. It simply has to. With or without the support of the BTWEA, I'm starting my company. I'd love it to be with the support, but if they turn me down, it's still going ahead.

There's nobody offering me a job, I've gotta create my own.

Barack Obama

I salute your positivity iMax! I need to look deeper and do out a proper business plan. Perhaps even doing this exercise would give me some more confidence.

I'm in the same boat and will not be eligible for JSA because of my wife's income. If I were to startup now rather then October, I'd be effectively throwing away two years of financial support. It's just a pity that there is no flexibility with this. I will take a look at the short term option tho.

iMax

It's not two years though. You (we) only qualify for one year's support (including the three/four months we've been on it). The long term one is only for people who've been on the dole for over a year & getting JSA.

If you're less than a year & on JSB, you only qualify for the short term BTWEA

And thanks, have to be positive. Can't start something on the basis that it might fail, if you don't believe in it, how are you expecting your customers/clients to ?

PaulPinnacle

Barack Obama wrote: »

I need to look deeper and do out a proper business plan.

Worth chatting with the local CEB or job facilitator about this. Both have options to provide mentors to help in this area (even if you're fully competent in doing it, no harm to have an external set of eyes look over the plan).

Barack Obama wrote: »

If I were to startup now rather then October, I'd be effectively throwing away two years of financial support.

AFAIK, for the BTWEA you require the underlying eligibility to JSA. So in your case, availing of the STEA (the one that provides JSB for as long as you're entitled) is pretty much the only option (similar situation to iMax basically).

Barack Obama

PaulPinnacle wrote: »

AFAIK, for the BTWEA you require the underlying eligibility to JSA. So in your case, availing of the STEA (the one that provides JSB for as long as you're entitled) is pretty much the only option (similar situation to iMax basically).

It looks like you are eligible if you are on JSB or JSA. My reading of this is that you are eligible for the BTWEA if you are on JSB as well? -
http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Publications/SW92/Pages/2WhocanqualifyforBTWEA.aspx

PaulPinnacle

Barack Obama wrote: »

It looks like you are eligible if you are on JSB or JSA. My reading of this is that you are eligible for the BTWEA if you are on JSB as well?

If you go to the 'who can claim' page (linked above)...

A person on Jobseeker's Benefit must have an underlying entitlement to Jobseeker's Allowance otherwise, the qualifying period is 2 years.

I know I've come across more straight forward descriptions of the eligibility criteria in the past (possibly on citizens information? Or maybe even here on boards or on askaboutmoney.com), the site itself is a touch ambiguous. (Here's a slightly more straight forward outline of it)

Your best bet is to get in touch with the facilitator in your local office to get it straight from the horses mouth (and all the other relevant information).

iMax

Hi OP,

I had my second meeting today where I presented my business plan (they give you a template), made the pitch to them & had cashflow projections etc.

They said they were going to process it & I should be officially notified within two weeks (that my payment will go straight to the bank & don't need to sign on anymore).

I also have to do a starting a business course (which they provide), five three hour classes over three weeks.

I asked them if it's a definite & they said they wouldn't be putting me on the course if they wern't backing it, but that the DSW can always overturn (but this is rarely done). so to hold off on any official announcements until I get my letter.

They also said they would prefer to see people trying to work for their money than just taking it, so I encourage you to do your BP & CF & go for it.

iMax

Me again. Just got confirmation that I've been approved for the program. Over the moon. OP - at the risk of being a Nike advert, just do it. You can sit on your ass for the remainder of the year or you can get the same payment (subject to income tax now) & hopefully get yourself established in the couple of months.

That's your parachute, strap it on & jump.

Mozart1986

Hi All,

I am applying for the BTWEA and I just have a query about it. Ostensibly, as far as they are concerned my business is a full-time job, but I am planning to take a part-time position in order to improve my income and thus be able to put more cash into the company. I am not trading yet as we are developing a prototype, which is a concern for the people administering the BTWEA in my region, but I am still confident that I can onto it.

So does anyone know whether I can take this position and being employed part-time after getting onto the BTWEA? Will it effect my payment? I am afraid to ask because I need them to understand that this is a serious full-time business, even though my role in the business is more to do with commercialisation, as opposed to product development, so their is not much I can do for the next three months.

Any views?

Thanks in advance:)

To the OP I would say develop your business on the quiet on your welfare payment as far as you feasibly can before going onto the BTWEA. I waited for a few months developing the business and it means I have a cushion for a few extra months, which is great, just incase the business doesn't work out. Goodluck with the business:)

AstonMartin

If the business fails can you reapply for jsa as you would have been self employed.

iMax

First off, you can't go into it thinking it'll fail. If you do think that, then you shouldn't be doing it.

If you do make a go of it & for one reason or another, it doesn't work out. You can apply for JSA (not JSB) but it's means tested

BiffoGooner

iMax wrote: »

First off, you can't go into it thinking it'll fail. If you do think that, then you shouldn't be doing it.

If you do make a go of it & for one reason or another, it doesn't work out. You can apply for JSA (not JSB) but it's means tested

Hey there, congradulations on getting approved. Have you any advice or comments on the business plan? Is it a big undertaking? And who exactly did you have to pitch the business plan to? Would you say a short business course is a must?

RollYerOwn

Just a cautionary note that it's not a case of trying it and if it doesn't work out you've lost nothing.. (my naive impression when I started it).

After a reasonably successful first year (in that I got work) I had to finish this scheme a couple of months before it was due to finish because I couldn't get enough work and I couldn't live off the 75% of the dole payment. Trying to work from a home office meant that we needed an additional room in the house for an office - which meant we couldn't rent anywhere under the rent allowance threshold.

So applied for JA hoping that because we had no means or income we would get full payment.

Note that despite receiving a social welfare payment for 2 years you will not be in a qualifying period for any other payment or scheme (you're now self employed - work or not - and you are no longer on the live register). I wasn't aware of this when I applied as I was under the impression that you're other entitlements were unaffected.

Your JA is worked out accordingly for a self-employed person. Both myself and my partner subsequently got substantially less than the 75% BTWEA payment each despite having no other income presently, and very little income in the months prior to claiming.

It may also disqualify you for other good schemes like the ICT Skills, which is another example of punishing those who try to do what they can to get work/upskill and get off the dole and out of the pit.

I guess it's worth it if you can get a successful business off the ground (in a recession) but if not it really just suits the DSP to remove people off the live register for a couple of years.

artsycraftsy

RollYerOwn wrote: »

Just a cautionary note that it's not a case of trying it and if it doesn't work out you've lost nothing.. (my naive impression when I started it).

After a reasonably successful first year (in that I got work) I had to finish this scheme a couple of months before it was due to finish because I couldn't get enough work and I couldn't live off the 75% of the dole payment. Trying to work from a home office meant that we needed an additional room in the house for an office - which meant we couldn't rent anywhere under the rent allowance threshold.

So applied for JA hoping that because we had no means or income we would get full payment.

Note that despite receiving a social welfare payment for 2 years you will not be in a qualifying period for any other payment or scheme (you're now self employed - work or not - and you are no longer on the live register). I wasn't aware of this when I applied as I was under the impression that you're other entitlements were unaffected.

Your JA is worked out accordingly for a self-employed person. Both myself and my partner subsequently got substantially less than the 75% BTWEA payment each despite having no other income presently, and very little income in the months prior to claiming.

It may also disqualify you for other good schemes like the ICT Skills, which is another example of punishing those who try to do what they can to get work/upskill and get off the dole and out of the pit.

I guess it's worth it if you can get a successful business off the ground (in a recession) but if not it really just suits the DSP to remove people off the live register for a couple of years.

I am in a similar position as yourself, want to come off scheme and apply for JSA as business is really struggling this year. Would you advise against it if you actually end up with less than on BTWEA? Have been looking for part time work but have had no luck, as would prefer this and come off scheme rather than going back to try get JSA.

rainbowdash

artsycraftsy wrote: »

I am in a similar position as yourself, want to come off scheme and apply for JSA as business is really struggling this year. Would you advise against it if you actually end up with less than on BTWEA? Have been looking for part time work but have had no luck, as would prefer this and come off scheme rather than going back to try get JSA.

You can be self employed 3 days of the week and get the dole for the other 3 days you are seeking employment.

rainbowdash

In fact you can be self employed every day and get the dole, from selfemployedsupports.ie:

"You can be engaged in self-employment every day and still get Jobseeker’s Allowance"

artsycraftsy

thanks rainbowdash, but as Rollyourown states above he tried to come off the BTWEA and then couldn't get the dole, and ended up getting less. So as far as I know its not as simple as to just finish up with the scheme and get the dole.

pasty

Ive just been accepted for the BTWEA and will be coming off jobseekers in the next month or so. Just reading what other people are saying is really scary, in case my business fails.
It could go one way or the other, but I didn't know that after 1 1/2 years I wouldn't have any access to Job seekers? Or have things changed?
Also, what would happen if you were sick (but not seriously disabled) maybe a broken leg or something? Maybe its just the jitters with me, but I hadn't thought it through past the 1st year. I would be optimistic by nature, but there is always the chance that it will fail. Any advice anyone?

bizzyb

pasty wrote: »

Ive just been accepted for the BTWEA and will be coming off jobseekers in the next month or so. Just reading what other people are saying is really scary, in case my business fails.
It could go one way or the other, but I didn't know that after 1 1/2 years I wouldn't have any access to Job seekers? Or have things changed?
Also, what would happen if you were sick (but not seriously disabled) maybe a broken leg or something? Maybe its just the jitters with me, but I hadn't thought it through past the 1st year. I would be optimistic by nature, but there is always the chance that it will fail. Any advice anyone?

Surely these are questions that should have been asked before going on BTWEA??

pasty

Well, I didn't...

bizzyb

quote="pasty;91767835"]Well, I didn't...[/quote]


You might find some answers to your questions on this site http://selfemployedsupports.ie/ it has plenty of info. Best of luck with your business.

pasty

Cheers, will ask more questions, its hard to locate the facilitator as he's mega busy.
As a complete aside, I worked for over 20 years and paid paye prsi etc. If the business does flounder (and in this economic climate who knows anything any more) can I use my old work credits or are they 'lost forever'? I don't mind being means tested if that's the only way. Again, thanks in advance.

pedronomix

Most of your questions appear to be answered in section 3 of this http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Back-to-Work-Allowance-Employees.aspx

pasty

Cheers Pedronomix!