Update on NI's most lethal weapon

EGAR

Well, it's been 6 months since I collected him in Bangor under heavy guard of the Enforcement Officers of the Down Borough. He has made national headlines and then quietly settled in here at EGAR.

He is remarkably sane after his nearly 3 year stint in solitary and the abuse he suffered. He is bombproof with cats, horses and livestock, he adores children, he gets on well with other dogs and show no aggression towards people although he shows some fence aggression and has a problem with hooded peeps (although the last two can be easily corrected by voice). I also got some obsessive behaviour under control withing weeks of arrival.

And by now he can open doors and lets himself into my bedroom for a snooze on my bed but not before he opens the door into the sitting room to let Phoebe out .

Bruce has now started a new career. Last week he participated in his first agility class and what can I say....? He was cool calm and collected amongst masses of peeps and other dogs of all shapes and sizes. He took every obstacle at first try and was delighted with himself afterwards. Biggest grin ever!

Pics are not the best as camera got slightly wet..


SLOW DOWN, Brucie!



With his friend Rosebud and my little man


And this is what he gets up to at home, he eats my crocs...



He is an utter sweetheart!

homerhop

Thats a fine looking dog there

Bog Bunny

Great character! Sounds like a good mate. What where the national headlines?
Continued happiness with him.

EGAR

Bog Bunny wrote: »

Great character! Sounds like a good mate. What where the national headlines?

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055956725&highlight=victory

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055984003&highlight=victory

The Sweeper

Bruce does agility - what a fantastic counter story to his years of confinement.

He's a great looking dog - he's very similar, in both size and markings, to my Gus (though Gus is tan and white, but he has that one patched eye and one white eye). Am also looking forward to starting agility with Gus in about 9 months time when he's 18 months old, (but then I'm looking forward to Gus growing out of puppyhood - I'm so not cut out for puppies, I should stick to cats!!!)

Is Bruce going to stay with you as your own in EGAR, or are you still waiting for the proper home for him?

ISDW

What an amazing dog, to have come through what he did, and to bounce back like this is fantastic. He really highlights how amazing these canines are, all that abuse and yet he still likes people. How many people have one bad experience with a dog and then hate the whole canine world forever, and bring in stupid legislation:mad:

Great photos Sarah, thank you for sharing but of course no media there to see him turn out to be such a sweetheart.

Long may he continue his agility and having fun.:D

Dixie Chick

I love seeing these pics, he is a very handsome man, that smile is award winning.

EGAR

Yes, I am still hoping for him to be re-homed eventually but no suitable adoptee has come forward so far. I want a home for him where he can be a dog and not THE Bruce.

It was very strange going to that lesson (second one will be tomorrow). People automatically moved away from Bruce and I until I stood pretty much alone in a corner . Only one guy allowed interaction between his dog (GSD) and Bruce, the rest avoided us like we had a contagious disease.

Bruce behaved impeccably and I felt like shouting at them: *You have no idea what this dog has been through yet your ignorance continues to keep him in solitary!"

But alas, Bruce is one in a million and I am not giving up to show the world what a brave and beautiful dog he is, both inside and out!

toadfly

EGAR wrote: »

It was very strange going to that lesson (second one will be tomorrow). People automatically moved away from Bruce and I until I stood pretty much alone in a corner . Only one guy allowed interaction between his dog (GSD) and Bruce, the rest avoided us like we had a contagious disease.

That is so sad,:( I am so pi$$ed off reading that. He is such an amazingly fantastic dog. So friendly and adorable.

Assholes :mad:

ISDW

TillyGirl wrote: »

That is so sad,:( I am so pi$$ed off reading that. He is such an amazingly fantastic dog. So friendly and adorable.

Assholes :mad:

Thats pi$$ed me off as well. I always assume that people who can be bothered to take their dogs to things like agility are dog friendly and not numptys.

Wisco

Sounds like you've done great work with him, well done. If only people could realize it's the owners that are the problem NOT the dog.
I also really like the croc-destroying photo...and I can think of another dog who had a similar look on his face after spreading a bag of flour around my floor :rolleyes:

Cherry Blossom

Wisco wrote: »

Sounds like you've done great work with him, well done. If only people could realize it's the owners that are the problem NOT the dog.

Bruce wasn't a problem in this case, he was a victim of UK Bulls*** legislation . It's great to see him have a normal doggy life . I'd have him in a flash but I need a job first, and somewhere to live myself second :rolleyes:

EGAR

I am angry beyond words. I am actually so angry that I can barely breathe. I have just had a phonecall from a blocked number and it was the agility instructor from last week. He said that Bruce, Morgan and Lucy MUST BE MUZZLED if they want to continue to participate in Agility. Bear in mind that neither Morgan nor Bruce are a restricted breed and that none of the three showed ANY aggression towards people or dogs last Tuesday...He gave me a cock and bull story about how he *didn't know we were coming..???? When I posted on EGAR FB a long time in advance and gave their new founded *club* lots of exposure AND my money???

They are both AmBulls. Jill's little Lucy is a Staffie and therefore restricted but since the training is held on private property the restricted breeds act doesn't apply.

I signed a contract last week at the first session, NO mention of restricted breeds, NO muzzling AND there were lots of GSD's and Doberman yet they are ok to go unmuzzled?? I am hopping, absolutely hopping and of course am pulling out and will demand my money back although I dread having to tell my 6 yro .

WHAT hope is there for Bull Breeds if so-called professionals are THAT ignorant and breedist?

Eibhin

I don't blame you at all. That is unbelievable. Someone or some stupid clique at the training must have complained. Otherwise why would thay have phoned you?

I agree with ISDW on a previous point - where were the media to follow up on the happy ever after Bruce story???

You have done a great job with him and don't worry. There must be other agility classes he can go to??

Have a glass of wine! It will be their loss.
x

DBCyc

EGAR wrote: »

I am angry beyond words. I am actually so angry that I can barely breathe. I have just had a phonecall from a blocked number and it was the agility instructor from last week. He said that Bruce, Morgan and Lucy MUST BE MUZZLED if they want to continue to participate in Agility. Bear in mind that neither Morgan nor Bruce are a restricted breed and that none of the three showed ANY aggression towards people or dogs last Tuesday...He gave me a cock and bull story about how he *didn't know we were coming..???? When I posted on EGAR FB a long time in advance and gave their new founded *club* lots of exposure AND my money???

They are both AmBulls. Jill's little Lucy is a Staffie and therefore restricted but since the training is held on private property the restricted breeds act doesn't apply.

I signed a contract last week at the first session, NO mention of restricted breeds, NO muzzling AND there were lots of GSD's and Doberman yet they are ok to go unmuzzled?? I am hopping, absolutely hopping and of course am pulling out and will demand my money back although I dread having to tell my 6 yro .

WHAT hope is there for Bull Breeds if so-called professionals are THAT ignorant and breedist?

That is some load of bollox. There must be another place that you can go?

Well a lot of people are better off knowing that this particular club are so ignorant and I am sure that they will steer clear

ISDW

EGAR wrote: »

I am angry beyond words. I am actually so angry that I can barely breathe. I have just had a phonecall from a blocked number and it was the agility instructor from last week. He said that Bruce, Morgan and Lucy MUST BE MUZZLED if they want to continue to participate in Agility. Bear in mind that neither Morgan nor Bruce are a restricted breed and that none of the three showed ANY aggression towards people or dogs last Tuesday...He gave me a cock and bull story about how he *didn't know we were coming..???? When I posted on EGAR FB a long time in advance and gave their new founded *club* lots of exposure AND my money???

They are both AmBulls. Jill's little Lucy is a Staffie and therefore restricted but since the training is held on private property the restricted breeds act doesn't apply.

I signed a contract last week at the first session, NO mention of restricted breeds, NO muzzling AND there were lots of GSD's and Doberman yet they are ok to go unmuzzled?? I am hopping, absolutely hopping and of course am pulling out and will demand my money back although I dread having to tell my 6 yro .

WHAT hope is there for Bull Breeds if so-called professionals are THAT ignorant and breedist?

Name and shame them. How dare they, there is no hope is there - I can feel your anger from here, and I share it. Do they do flyball there?

TooManyDogs

I can't believe they did that!!!!

I compete in agility and there are loads of RB's competing, never mind training in clubs all around the country- staffies and staffie x's, GSDs, dobies etc. I have a GSD x myself, all competition forms are filled out saying what breed she is and never have I been asked to muzzle her. It's absolutely outrageous that you were asked to muzzle your dogs. I'm trying to think of other training classes in Galway.... was that Galway dog club that you had started with?

ToniTuddle

He just wants to keep his regulars happy no doubt.

Sickening :mad:

Wait a minute.....why doesn't he use this opportunity to show those regulars or whoever is worried that these dogs are ok and such? I mean he could help change their minds!

Queen-Mise

EGAR wrote: »

Yes, I am still hoping for him to be re-homed eventually but no suitable adoptee has come forward so far. I want a home for him where he can be a dog and not THE Bruce.

It was very strange going to that lesson (second one will be tomorrow). People automatically moved away from Bruce and I until I stood pretty much alone in a corner . Only one guy allowed interaction between his dog (GSD) and Bruce, the rest avoided us like we had a contagious disease.

Bruce behaved impeccably and I felt like shouting at them: *You have no idea what this dog has been through yet your ignorance continues to keep him in solitary!"

But alas, Bruce is one in a million and I am not giving up to show the world what a brave and beautiful dog he is, both inside and out!

I wonder if it is the other people on the course complaining rather than the trainer. It is better for him/her to appease the masses than you.

I love bulldogs/staffs/pitbulls etc - but then I have had a lot of dealings with them. They are a terrifying looking dog though - and that can't be forgotten, when other people come into contact with them.

Don't ask for you money back - get the trainer to do classes private with you, your son & the dogs.

homerhop

Have the previous owners been down to see him since you have had him?

TooManyDogs

Still furious.
Would love to organise a mass flash group or agility people who have RB's and just show up at one of his classes and see what he says

toadfly

TooManyDogs wrote: »

Still furious.
Would love to organise a mass flash group or agility people who have RB's and just show up at one of his classes and see what he says

We could all turn up with all the EGAR dogs..I'd be up for that!

I posted on their facebook page, they will either delete the comments or the page itself! So mad at this, complete BS :mad:

Whispered

Queen-Mise wrote: »

I wonder if it is the other people on the course complaining rather than the trainer. It is better for him/her to appease the masses than you.

I love bulldogs/staffs/pitbulls etc - but then I have had a lot of dealings with them. They are a terrifying looking dog though - and that can't be forgotten, when other people come into contact with them.

Don't ask for you money back - get the trainer to do classes private with you, your son & the dogs.

No I think it better the trainer do the right thing. And bare in mind this is 4 people in a class of 15 approx he's upsetting. Almost a third of his group.

Bruce is a gentleman of a dog. It's not like these people saw the "big scary dog" for a just a min. They watched him interact with his people, saw how well behaved he was. If they STILL thought he was terrifying looking, it's pure ignorance and that shouldn't be pandered to.

(have to disagree with you in saying they are terrifying looking, I think they are fabulous )

EGAR

homerhop wrote: »

Have the previous owners been down to see him since you have had him?

No, not a peep from them.

They are a newly founded club and can barely afford the negative publicity. Also, a muzzled dog in agility is a health and safety hazard to himself.

I don't care if the Pope called and complained, they are in breach of contract and the trainer even handled Bruce last week at the tunnel without a hitch, so ...?

Anyway: Western Dog Sports and Training Club - YOU STINK!!!

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Western-Dog-Sports-Training-Club/184476711584896?v=wall

TooManyDogs

Have put up a message on their facebook page. Just changed my own status to ask my agility friends to message that club

:mad::mad::mad:

eilo1

I have to say I think it is very unfair that you are being asked to muzzle your dog, especially as it has been proven to be safe. I have grown up around GSD's and do not believe the restricted breed list is in any way effective.

However I think you need to discuss it further with the trainer. I hope that they are just being overly concerned about health and safety and will with some negotiation change their mind.

And to be fair with how difficult it is for small businesses at the minute you have to respect people fears when it comes to law suits etc. I wouldnt be too annoyed if I was you, its not a personal attack or any reflection on the dogs personality or performance.

I would just keep up the classes and work on building people trust, hoping that you can educate them on the way.

ISDW

eilo1 wrote: »

I have to say I think it is very unfair that you are being asked to muzzle your dog, especially as it has been proven to be safe. I have grown up around GSD's and do not believe the restricted breed list is in any way effective.

However I think you need to discuss it further with the trainer. I hope that they are just being overly concerned about health and safety and will with some negotiation change their mind.

And to be fair with how difficult it is for small businesses at the minute you have to respect people fears when it comes to law suits etc. I wouldnt be too annoyed if I was you, its not a personal attack or any reflection on the dogs personality or performance.

I would just keep up the classes and work on building people trust, hoping that you can educate them on the way.

But is dangerous for the dog to do agility wearing a muzzle. Why should a dog be put at risk in this way?

eilo1

ISDW wrote: »

But is dangerous for the dog to do agility wearing a muzzle. Why should a dog be put at risk in this way?

I dont disagree with you with, but im sure the trainer is just freaking out and thinking that its more dangerous to have this dog unmuzzled than other (less aggressive in his opinion) unmuzzled dogs on leads.

I dont think this is in the best interest of bruce, however we live in a sue happy country and I am sure this trainer thinks he is just being responsible to the other dog owners.

ISDW

eilo1 wrote: »

I dont disagree with you with, but im sure the trainer is just freaking out and thinking that its more dangerous to have this dog unmuzzled than other (less aggressive in his opinion) unmuzzled dogs on leads.

I dont think this is in the best interest of bruce, however we live in a sue happy country and I am sure this trainer thinks he is just being responsible to the other dog owners.

If I was an owner of a muzzled dog doing agility and the dog got hurt, I would sue the arse off him. None of these dogs have ever shown any aggression, what reason is there to muzzle them? I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no reason whatsoever. Dog trainers should be on the frontline of educating people about deed not breed, not enforcing the negative stereotypes.

EGAR

a.) Bruce is NOT a restricted breed

b.) he was impeccable behaved for the over two hours we were there last week

c.) he phones me a week later from a blocked number at half 8 at night the eve before the second session to tell me Bruce has to be muzzled and as no explanation as to why?

d.) Bruce was muzzled 24/7 during his incarceration and the muzzle grew into his skin, I WILL BE DAMNED BEFORE I PUT A MUZZLE ON HIM FOR NO GOOD REASON

e.) I signed a contract last week, NO mention of muzzling ANY dog

f.) he provides a service for which I have paid - simples

eilo1

ISDW wrote: »

Dog trainers should be on the frontline of educating people about deed not breed, not enforcing the negative stereotypes.

You are right they should be educating people and sometimes you have to just work from the inside out, even if it is frustrating.

eilo1

I completely respect and agree with your determination not to want to muzzle this dog.

But imagine the court case if by some freak accident Bruce did attack another dog or worse some person. All the prosecution would have to do is show "Well, it's been 6 months since I collected him in Bangor under heavy guard of the Enforcement Officers of the Down Borough." this.

The trained would be liable up to his eyes in it!

Im not saying the trainer is doing the best thing for the dog, but its naive to think he should accept your word on something that could bankrupt him!

toadfly

eilo1 wrote: »

Im not saying the trainer is doing the best thing for the dog, but its naive to think he should accept your word on something that could bankrupt him!

But why pick on Bruce? I'm sure his insurance covers him for any possibilities so there is no need to pick on one particular dog. The same could be said for any dog in the group so the same rules should apply for all.

EGAR

Eilo, you misunderstood the whole Bruce affair, Bruce was incarcerated to the way he looks not for any aggressive behaviour.

Shanao

FFS, pure Bruce. We need a restricted breed only agility club

eilo1

EGAR wrote: »

Eilo, you misunderstood the whole Bruce affair, Bruce was incarcerated to the way he looks not for any aggressive behaviour.

No edgar I get that; but unfortunately the courts dont! I have no doubt that the dog can be a terrific pet in the right hands or maybe in any hands. But I feel sorry for the trainer being stuck between a rock and a hard place in a sue happy society. He is leaving himself wide open by allowing "the NI's most lethal weapon" unmuzzled in his class.

aoife2k

Bruce's smile says it all... shows his happiness and obvious love for crocs :-D All the best with him xx

LucyBliss

I agree that we do live in a society where people are quick to find fault and sue and that someone agreeing to train dogs of all shapes and sizes has to be careful, but I would think that any and all policies regarding breeds, even if it's something along the lines of "if your dog resembles a restricted breed" type thing, needs to be clearly laid out in any contract and I don't think this was. Also it's bad form to let the dogs be there for one session and then land this stipulation on them. It really should have been mentioned either before the first session or immediately after.

I would assume that they wouldn't accept anyone for agility training who didn't already have a good working relationship with their dogs regarding commands and control. I mean, when you're waiting for your turn to do the course, the last thing you want is someone teaching their dog the 'come on' command. So you wouldn't be expecting anyone's dog to suddenly turn scrappy because they should be too busy learning the course.

I am incredibly disappointed in the club for this ruling because it would be an opportunity to show people just how great these dogs can be and also, from the photos I've seen, it looks like they're depriving themselves of what could be their greatest walking advertisements for the club because Bruce was clearly having a ball and picking it up.
After reading so much about Bruce and becoming very fond of him from afar, I would be in bits if I thought he had to have a muzzle put on him again.

eilo1

TillyGirl wrote: »

But why pick on Bruce? I'm sure his insurance covers him for any possibilities so there is no need to pick on one particular dog. The same could be said for any dog in the group so the same rules should apply for all.

I dont know the ins and outs of an insurance policy but we all know they will squire out of any payment if possible. Based on the publicity this dog has gained they would have a good case in court in my opinion.

EGAR

eilo1 wrote: »

No edgar I get that; but unfortunately the courts dont! I have no doubt that the dog can be a terrific pet in the right hands or maybe in any hands. But I feel sorry for the trainer being stuck between a rock and a hard place in a sue happy society. He is leaving himself wide open by allowing "the NI's most lethal weapon" unmuzzled in his class.

The name is EGAR (East Galway Animal Rescue) and if you were familiar with the case then you would know where the *lethal weapon* came from.

He is NOT a restricted breed, he is NOT a Pit Bull and he is no more aggressive than my Yorkie.

Also, the Club has public liability, so has EGAR and do you honestly think I would expose a dog to tons of dogs and people if I hand't assessed him properly?

I give up...

toadfly

eilo1 wrote: »

I dont know the ins and outs of an insurance policy but we all know they will squire out of any payment if possible. Based on the publicity this dog has gained they would have a good case in court in my opinion.

I dont know anything about his insurance either I can only assume what he has to be covered for before he can have the class. But insisting that a dog is put at risk of injury is just crazy.

Bruce wasnt aggressive, the whole case was complete and utter BS or he wouldnt have been released to EGARs care. It shouldnt matter if its Bruce or any other dog. I have met Bruce, he is amazing and so affectionate and this is so unfair.

eilo1

LucyBliss wrote: »

I agree that we do live in a society where people are quick to find fault and sue and that someone agreeing to train dogs of all shapes and sizes has to be careful, but I would think that any and all policies regarding breeds, even if it's something along the lines of "if your dog resembles a restricted breed" type thing, needs to be clearly laid out in any contract and I don't think this was. Also it's bad form to let the dogs be there for one session and then land this stipulation on them. It really should have been mentioned either before the first session or immediately after.

I would assume that they wouldn't accept anyone for agility training who didn't already have a good working relationship with their dogs regarding commands and control. I mean, when you're waiting for your turn to do the course, the last thing you want is someone teaching their dog the 'come on' command. So you wouldn't be expecting anyone's dog to suddenly turn scrappy because they should be too busy learning the course.

I am incredibly disappointed in the club for this ruling because it would be an opportunity to show people just how great these dogs can be and also, from the photos I've seen, it looks like they're depriving themselves of what could be their greatest walking advertisements for the club because Bruce was clearly having a ball and picking it up.
After reading so much about Bruce and becoming very fond of him from afar, I would be in bits if I thought he had to have a muzzle put on him again.

This is actually a very good flip side of what I was saying. (hang on that sounds crazy!)

I was basically saying that the trainer is protecting him self. But if he was very clever as this poster points out. He could be saying "NI most lethal weapon successfully completing in agility blah blah blah"

eilo1

EGAR wrote: »

The name is EGAR (East Galway Animal Rescue) and if you were familiar with the case then you would know where the *lethal weapon* came from.

He is NOT a restricted breed, he is NOT a Pit Bull and he is no more aggressive than my Yorkie.

Also, the Club has public liability, so has EGAR and do you honestly think I would expose a dog to tons of dogs and people if I hand't assessed him properly?

I give up...

Sorry for the spelling,

I get where it comes from and I realise that your dog is not restricted. I never mentioned him being restricted.

I am only pointing out that the dog has being publicly described as the above quotes from yourself! That leaves you at a liability and the trainer of the class for admitting a dog described as "NI most leathal weapon" into his class unmuzzled!. If brought up in court could be scene as negligence.

I know none of this is in any way representative of your dogs behavior. I am simply pointing out that the trainer is watching his back in a sue happy society.
It is the courts that have the problem not your dog. But dont shoot the trainer for protecting his business!

Eibhin

I agree he has handled this extremely badly and missed a great opportunity.

He should have had a chat with you before tomorrow's class, you could have asked to see the contract again, and had a face to face discussion about it. Maybe he is not aware of Bruce's history, in which case he may have handled it differently.

However I do think it's extremely unfair to lambaste him all over his Facebook business page without first trying to talk to him again tomorrow.

If he is just starting out it could be detrimental for him.

EGAR

For the last time the phrase *NI most lethal weapon* was NOT coined by me or anyone belonging to me but by the NI press as a tongue-in-cheek reaction to his release into EGAR care.

EGAR

Eibhin wrote: »

I agree he has handled this extremely badly and missed a great opportunity.

He should have had a chat with you before tomorrow's class, you could have asked to see the contract again, and had a face to face discussion about it. Maybe he is not aware of Bruce's history, in which case he may have handled it differently.

However I do think it's extremely unfair to lambaste him all over his Facebook business page without first trying to talk to him again tomorrow.

If he is just starting out it could be detrimental for him.

He is well aware of Bruce's history, Eibhin, and I told him again tonight. He hung up on me when I asked for my money back (bear in mind it was a double whammy for me as my 6 yro is also participating with his own dog).

eilo1

I get that EGAR, im just trying to point out how it could be construed in court!

EGAR

eilo1 wrote: »

I get that EGAR, im just trying to point out how it could be construed in court!

Ahm, I've got the original article which pre-dates my post here by six months.. I am sure a court would be happy with that!

EGAR

Anyway on a MUCH brighter note, a friend of EGAR has just announced that she will sponsor an agility set for the rescue dogs which includes Bruce of course. An incredible generous gesture which has really touched me.

So if anyone fancies a go you are all more than welcome once the set has arrived !!

And I might make you a cuppa afterwards as well

homerhop

Without wanting to fan the flames of this fire, I am surprised that some of the more buisness savy folks out there have not set up an agility class for RB.

Eibhin

Well at least something good has come out of tonight. That was a really nice gesture.

I cannot believe he hung up. And you definitely deserve a full refund. That is really unprofessional.

Your 6 year old will be so excited to set up your own agility course now!
Much better fun!