Earnings/Rent in Ireland

pmrozik

I'm totally new here and I'm planning on moving to Ireland from Warsaw, Poland and would like some insight on the realities of the job market out there.

First of all, let me say that I have no intention of changing my plans so there's no convincing me to do otherwise. I realize that the recession has hit hard, but I've been hit much harder out here.

So the two questions I have are:

1. How much can I expect to earn?

I have a U.S. high school diploma and was raised there, but had to move back to Poland because of my parents' immigration status. I went to college here and majored in Computer Science, but never actually got my degree. It's complicated, but I was two subjects away from completing the curriculum.

The IT jobs here were offering pennies (~ 400EUR per month) and I found a great job teaching English. The pay was triple what I was offered in IT, but at one point I decided to open up my own business with the intent of launching IT training centers.

I'd like to get into IT in Ireland and I'd also love to go back to school over there to complete my degree. I know it's a long shot, but I also know that I can work very hard and if it means mowing lawns at the beginning so be it.

Anyway, back to my original question. How much can I realistically expect to earn?

I really need a lifestyle change as I work 6 days a week and wake up at 5 or 6 am and then come home really late. On Sunday it's just work again because I'm self-employed so there's work to catch up on and I have to prepare or the next week. Frankly, as much as I like it, I'm looking for new challenges and I admit I'm a bit exhausted.

2. How much is rent?

I just need a room or a studio apartment initially.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

daenerysstormborn3

I'm currently unemployed and have 6 years experience in my field but I find that employers are choosing qualification over experience these days and because they have the pick of a huge pool of potential employees they can afford to. I have had quite a few interviews since I became unemployed just before Christmas but have only been contacted by two companies after the interview to say I hadn't been successful, too much experience, these were the same two companies who were "disappointed" I had no qualification apart from a brilliant leaving certificate. Expect to take a huge cut in wages, my salary over the past 3 years has dropped 5,000 and then a further 10,000. Many employers are paying crap salaries these days because, they can now afford to offer as little as they want because people are desperate.

You may find an employer willing to take you on while you complete studies but then again you may be really unlucky in that way.

Unfortunately this decrease in wages hasn't been reflected in a decrease in rent or food prices, in my experience. Rent depends on where you want to live, Dublin, Cork, Galway would be the most expensive cities. You could get a room to rent for on average 300-400euro. Then again, you could rent a 2-3 bedroom house in Waterford City for around 400-500euro.

doolox

Ireland is probably the most expensive EU country in which to live.

Expect to pay min €500 for rent unless sharing with others in the cities.

Petrol is €1.50 per litre.

Do you drive? Outside of Dublin city centre public transport is non-existant as ye know it in Europe. Like the U.S and Britain, the Irish political system hate public transport but also love taxing cars heavily, worst of both worlds. It also rains a lot.

Tax will be levied on 1/3 to 1/2 your wages depending on salary levels.

Drink in pubs is dear, expect to pay €5 per drink, beer or wine or spirits.

Most people from mainland Europe drink in their houses as a result because shop-bought drink is cheaper.

A cup of coffee is €2 to €3.

A meal is €10 to €20

Electricity works out around 0.15 per KWh.

Gas is also dear.

A visit to the doctor is €60.

A dentist could cost minimum €200 for trivial work.

Nights out are expensive and can run to €100 easily.

If you are prepared to work long hours and weekends, which I find most Poles are, you will earn enough to do O.K but budgets now are tight and many companies now only work regular hours or short-time.

If you have good English skills you will do well training other Poles and translating for the Irish who are not generally good at languages.

pmrozik

Thanks a lot for the insight, but I still don't know how much I can realistically expect to earn.

As far as Ireland being the most expensive EU country, it's all relative and depends on one's earnings. Let's compare:

Rent (Warsaw): 400 EUR for a one bedroom.
Petrol: 1.25 EUR per liter
A cup of coffee: Anywhere from 1-3 EUR
Drinks: I don't really drink, but beer is around 2-3 EUR
Meals: You can find places with meals for under 3 EUR, but expect 5 to 10.

Now, let's compare earnings. My girlfriend earns about 450 EUR per month as a department store clerk. Now try to pay rent and feed two kids with that.

Now let's say you're running your own business, expect to pay 200 EUR per month for social security regardless of income. So if your income for a given month is 300 EUR, you're left with 100.

I've seen salaries anywhere between 20 and 50k EUR per year, so let me get back to my original question - how much can I expect to earn?

pmrozik

I got a nice rejection letter from Apple today. Seriously, they're just too damn nice. :-) I'm wondering how much influence my being in Poland has on my chances of landing a job over there.

The position I was applying for was a perfect match, at least I'd thought so. I only wish they'd give a bit of feedback...

daenerysstormborn3

pmrozik wrote: »

I got a nice rejection letter from Apple today. Seriously, they're just too damn nice. :-) I'm wondering how much influence my being in Poland has on my chances of landing a job over there.

The position I was applying for was a perfect match, at least I'd thought so. I only wish they'd give a bit of feedback...

You're lucky you got a rejection letter.

pmrozik

pixiebean22 wrote: »

You're lucky you got a rejection letter.

First I got a bot confirmation of my application on Friday, and the rejection came in my inbox today.

So what sort of field do you have experience in?

Stheno

What area of IT do you want to work in?

Mrs OBumble

pmrozik wrote: »

I'm wondering how much influence my being in Poland has on my chances of landing a job over there.

I'd expect it has quite a large impact.

Are you a Java developer, by any chance? You could get some serious money for that. 50k or more per year.

Worse case, as a hard-working Pole with good English you could probaby get 20k doing cleaning/retail/etc.

And if your spoken English is as good as written (and having grown up in the US, I' guessing it is), then self-employment as a translator for other Polish could be a real option. (Social security for the self-employed here is minimum e253 per year ... more if you earn more.)

Oh ... and there is public transport outside Dublin city centre. Granted nothing like you'll be used to but there is some - eg check it out for Cork and Galway. (In the interests of transparency, I'm the owner of the latter site, and someone else from boards - can't remember his/her name, but got the idea here - owns the Cork site. And yes, it is telling that in Ireland very few local councils are providing services like this.)

doolox

The Social Security amount is shocking, its as if the government do not want to encourage people to work at all. They only want high earners, who can swallow up the 300 per month in large takings to be self employed, what happens with start-ups or low wage earners? What happens to people of modest abilities who cannot command high rates of pay.

Also the rent swallows up almost the entire wage.....do people share apartments with extended family members like what happens in Italy and elsewhere that has a housing shortage. Used to happen here 20-30 yrs ago when newly marrieds had to share with parents for years before they bought or built a house and even longer for furnishings. Now everything happens immediately but at great cost in interest payments.

I know little or nothing about IT but pay is highly variable in the general technology sector depending on the scarcity of skills, an Electronics Technician with recent and up-to-date experience and skills can get 35k a year. A badly qualified struggler with common skills will be lucky to get 20k.
Things like shift allowance and working long hours will up the rates but there had been a trend towards minimising shift patterns to save money in recent times.

x in the city

pmrozik wrote: »

I'm totally new here and I'm planning on moving to Ireland from Warsaw, Poland and would like some insight on the realities of the job market out there.

First of all, let me say that I have no intention of changing my plans so there's no convincing me to do otherwise. I realize that the recession has hit hard, but I've been hit much harder out here.

So the two questions I have are:

1. How much can I expect to earn?

I have a U.S. high school diploma and was raised there, but had to move back to Poland because of my parents' immigration status. I went to college here and majored in Computer Science, but never actually got my degree. It's complicated, but I was two subjects away from completing the curriculum.

The IT jobs here were offering pennies (~ 400EUR per month) and I found a great job teaching English. The pay was triple what I was offered in IT, but at one point I decided to open up my own business with the intent of launching IT training centers.

I'd like to get into IT in Ireland and I'd also love to go back to school over there to complete my degree. I know it's a long shot, but I also know that I can work very hard and if it means mowing lawns at the beginning so be it.

Anyway, back to my original question. How much can I realistically expect to earn?

I really need a lifestyle change as I work 6 days a week and wake up at 5 or 6 am and then come home really late. On Sunday it's just work again because I'm self-employed so there's work to catch up on and I have to prepare or the next week. Frankly, as much as I like it, I'm looking for new challenges and I admit I'm a bit exhausted.

2. How much is rent?

I just need a room or a studio apartment initially.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

you have a high school diploma and ask what salary you can expect in IT..?

good luck with even getting a job, I have a masters (as well a BEng) and have to move abroad for any work.

Tom Dunne

pmrozik wrote: »

I've seen salaries anywhere between 20 and 50k EUR per year, so let me get back to my original question - how much can I expect to earn?

You seem to be missing the point. Ireland has extremely high unemployment at the moment. A lot of the unemployed have degrees and masters level qualifications.

Even if you were extremely lucky to get yourself a job, you would probably be earning in the region of 16-19k Euro. Factor in rent, very high taxes and cost of living and you are not left with much.

Check out www.daft.ie for and idea on rents.

pmrozik

JustMary wrote: »

I'd expect it has quite a large impact.

Are you a Java developer, by any chance? You could get some serious money for that. 50k or more per year.

Worse case, as a hard-working Pole with good English you could probaby get 20k doing cleaning/retail/etc.

And if your spoken English is as good as written (and having grown up in the US, I' guessing it is), then self-employment as a translator for other Polish could be a real option. (Social security for the self-employed here is minimum e253 per year ... more if you earn more.)

Oh ... and there is public transport outside Dublin city centre. Granted nothing like you'll be used to but there is some - eg check it out for Cork and Galway. (In the interests of transparency, I'm the owner of the latter site, and someone else from boards - can't remember his/her name, but got the idea here - owns the Cork site. And yes, it is telling that in Ireland very few local councils are providing services like this.)

Unfortunately, I wouldn't dub myself a Java Developer, but I was pretty good at it back in college and started programming in C/C++ when I was about 14. It's been at least 5 years since I've done any programming though, but I'd definitely be willing to get back into it.

Thanks a lot for all the suggestions and links, I'll be sure to check them out. I visited Dublin back in 2003 and I still remember all the help wanted signs around the city. I also visited Galway and I found the people in Ireland to be extremely friendly and easy-going.

pmrozik

Stheno wrote: »

What area of IT do you want to work in?

I used to be pretty good at programming and I'm a fast learner. I've done C, C++, Java, Visual Basic back in the days, PHP, bash, and I even did a bit o AppleScript. Yes, the latter are not really programming languages per se, but I think anyone has has had some experience in programming can attest to the fact that moving from one language or platform to another isn't too difficult. The only problem is if one has never done any OOP before, but it's not to difficult to get the hang of it either.

Linux and network administration is another area I was considering, but again it's been years, although I was really into Linux at one point and then bought a Mac and discovered that it's exactly what I need to just get stuff done and not have to tinker with the kernel drivers to make something work.

Databases would also be okay, but initially just SQL queries and such.

At one point I also got into CSS and Web Design in general, and even designed a couple of websites, including my own. I'd definitely need more experience though.

Oh, and I'm an Apple fan. I made the switch in 2006 and haven't gone back since.

pmrozik

x in the city wrote: »

you have a high school diploma and ask what salary you can expect in IT..?

good luck with even getting a job, I have a masters (as well a BEng) and have to move abroad for any work.

I'm sorry to hear that you have to move abroad for work. With a BEng you could make pretty good money out here in Poland and generally as a foreigner you'll be treated well.

My current personal situation is quite complicated and I've worked for way too long and too hard for me and my family to deserve to be treated the way we are by our own country. So it's either fight or flight and I do have a dilemma, but I'm sick of consistently having to fight an uphill battle with public institutions out here. If you're single, teaching English could be a great experience, be it in Poland or elsewhere.

And about the salary, I just wanted to know how much I could earn in general and what the costs of living are.

I'm fully aware that there are many frustrated people out there, especially if they've lost their jobs. Having me come into the country and try to take away jobs from those who are already there might also infuriate some, so I do understand, but a man's gotta do what he's gotta do.

I definitely do not intend to be a burden on society but just want to improve my life.

Tiddlers

pmrozik wrote: »

I visited Dublin back in 2003 and I still remember all the help wanted signs around the city.

You seem very set on moving over and why not?Plenty of people are moving all over the world right now in the hope of finding work so if you think your best bet is here, go for it. However, if your quote above is what's resonating in your mind and encouraging you bear in mind that Dublin of 2003 is no reflection of Dublin and its job market now. There are jobs; just not oodles and oodles of them.

listermint

Tiddlers wrote: »

You seem very set on moving over and why not?Plenty of people are moving all over the world right now in the hope of finding work so if you think your best bet is here, go for it. However, if your quote above is what's resonating in your mind and encouraging you bear in mind that Dublin of 2003 is no reflection of Dublin and its job market now. There are jobs; just not oodles and oodles of them.

There are also jobs and irish not willing to take them due to the high benefits certain people recieve its not worth their while. Catch 22.

This guy might fit the bill quite well where these jobs are concerned.

looksee

Polish people are respected as good workers here, though many of them would (I think) have started businesses doing painting, cleaning, home improvements, that kind of thing. However, your chances of getting a job are really minimal, because of the unemployment levels. Come and give it a go if you wish, but be prepared for disappointment.

Tiddlers

listermint wrote: »

There are also jobs and irish not willing to take them due to the high benefits certain people recieve its not worth their while. Catch 22.

This guy might fit the bill quite well where these jobs are concerned.

That's true but there's still no denying the fact that there are far fewer jobs in general.Plus the OP seems to have a particular sector in mind.

I don't think benefits and the topic of people choosing to be on benefits over working should be brought into this thread though.

Cuddlesworth

pmrozik wrote: »

I used to be pretty good at programming and I'm a fast learner. I've done C, C++, Java, Visual Basic back in the days, PHP, bash, and I even did a bit o AppleScript. Yes, the latter are not really programming languages per se, but I think anyone has has had some experience in programming can attest to the fact that moving from one language or platform to another isn't too difficult. The only problem is if one has never done any OOP before, but it's not to difficult to get the hang of it either.

Linux and network administration is another area I was considering, but again it's been years, although I was really into Linux at one point and then bought a Mac and discovered that it's exactly what I need to just get stuff done and not have to tinker with the kernel drivers to make something work.

Databases would also be okay, but initially just SQL queries and such.

At one point I also got into CSS and Web Design in general, and even designed a couple of websites, including my own. I'd definitely need more experience though.

Oh, and I'm an Apple fan. I made the switch in 2006 and haven't gone back since.

Your out of touch with tech, have no real relevant experience or qualifications and specialize in nothing. Helpdesk job in Dublin at around 18-20k is a possibility. Costs are high, though not high enough to cripple you.

spider guardian

I would be concerned about the fact that you don't have a degree in IT. Forget about getting a development job unless you have one. Pity as the IT sector here is doing OK. IT Support might be a different story. Have you considered looking in the UK for work? If you are unsuccessful in finding work here then you can move over there easily enough.

Best of luck, hope it works out for you.

pmrozik

spider guardian wrote: »

I would be concerned about the fact that you don't have a degree in IT. Forget about getting a development job unless you have one. Pity as the IT sector here is doing OK. IT Support might be a different story. Have you considered looking in the UK for work? If you are unsuccessful in finding work here then you can move over there easily enough.

Best of luck, hope it works out for you.

I'd like to get my degree, just not here in Poland. I was two subjects away from getting my degree here. In fact, I completed my engineering thesis and was really close, but gave up at the end. I don't want to go around blaming anyone for not having done it, but it wasn't my lack of hard work. I'd just come back from the U.S. and was thrown into deep water into the school system here, which frankly, I couldn't handle.

To give you a sample of how things work here, imagine this scenario:

A college buddy I once knew was about to get a 3 (equivalent of a C) in a Database class we were taking. The thing was, you were required to get at least a 4 in labs in order to be excused from taking the main exam, which I think is nonsense anyway. If you're good enough, then taking the exam shouldn't be a problem for you. Upon hearing that he was going to get a 3, he said to the professor: "Well, that's a pity, but you do know that there's a chance we'll see each other again one day. " My buddy was tall, wide, and had a shaved head. The professor answered, "Are you threatening me!?" and my buddy said, "No, no, of course not. I'm just saying..."

He got a 4.

I really have no clue as to how the educational system in Ireland works, but in the U.S. cheating got you nowhere. Not so in Poland, it can get you very far. In fact, it's a must.

Anyway, that's enough, I guess I'm trying to justify some things.

I've thought about the UK, but I love Ireland and would definitely prefer it over the UK.

EoghanConway

Cheating will ruin you here. No open book exams, no retries. Either pass the exam or we'll see you again next year. You can request an external recheck of your exam if you feel your lecturer is trying to cheat you, but I've never heard of such a thing (usually people just hoping for an extra few % from a different examiner).

spider guardian

pmrozik wrote: »

I'd like to get my degree, just not here in Poland. I was two subjects away from getting my degree here. In fact, I completed my engineering thesis and was really close, but gave up at the end. I don't want to go around blaming anyone for not having done it, but it wasn't my lack of hard work. I'd just come back from the U.S. and was thrown into deep water into the school system here, which frankly, I couldn't handle.

To give you a sample of how things work here, imagine this scenario:

A college buddy I once knew was about to get a 3 (equivalent of a C) in a Database class we were taking. The thing was, you were required to get at least a 4 in labs in order to be excused from taking the main exam, which I think is nonsense anyway. If you're good enough, then taking the exam shouldn't be a problem for you. Upon hearing that he was going to get a 3, he said to the professor: "Well, that's a pity, but you do know that there's a chance we'll see each other again one day. " My buddy was tall, wide, and had a shaved head. The professor answered, "Are you threatening me!?" and my buddy said, "No, no, of course not. I'm just saying..."

He got a 4.

I really have no clue as to how the educational system in Ireland works, but in the U.S. cheating got you nowhere. Not so in Poland, it can get you very far. In fact, it's a must.

Anyway, that's enough, I guess I'm trying to justify some things.

I've thought about the UK, but I love Ireland and would definitely prefer it over the UK.

I feel bad for you man, so close yet so far! If it is a career in IT that you are after you should seriously consider getting a degree. You will quickly run into a dead end if you don't have one. Even people with a lower-level ordinary degree can find themselves left behind the people with an honours degree. Ireland isn't a bad place to live, it ranks very high on the quality of life index. The fact that Poland is in the EU will work in your favour if you want to study here or in another EU state.

pmrozik

EoghanConway wrote: »

Cheating will ruin you here. No open book exams, no retries. Either pass the exam or we'll see you again next year. You can request an external recheck of your exam if you feel your lecturer is trying to cheat you, but I've never heard of such a thing (usually people just hoping for an extra few % from a different examiner).

That's exactly what I expect. Here you have a sort of preliminary exam, then the normal exam, and a make-up exam. I've seen teachers walk out of rooms during an exam, being fully aware of the fact that people will cheat. On this one math exam, I was the only one that left a blank sheet of paper. Maybe two or three people in the group knew how to solve the problems because of their strong background, the rest just cheated.

It's also common to see 80% of a group fail a certain subject. You have to pay for make-up exams, and I think the professors get a cut or something.

My mom is close to getting her Master's in Accounting. She's just been trying to get her thesis finished, but the professor who's supposed to approve it just keeps making corrections by crossing out half of everything she's got, then when she corrects it, he asks her to change some of the content to what it was originally. He also corrects referenced material. Not much you can do about it. I told her to fight, but she's afraid of losing everything.

Perhaps if I had grown up here and learned that your grades have nothing to do with what you've learned at times but everything to do with how sly you are, I would've been fine.

For me, there's just no point in cheating my way through anything, there's just no logic behind it.

pmrozik

Thank you all for all the insightful info. I know that lack of a degree will be a major deterrent and I know it'll take a while for me to land a job over there in any field, but I'm fully determined.

As I said earlier, I'd also like to go back to school and get my degree, just hope the tuition won't ruin me financially.

Back when I was in school, I specialized in networking. I was thinking about getting at least CCNA certified or perhaps SCJA for Java. I could do either really, or both, but one at a time. If you happen to have any recommendations as to whether this would help me and which way to go I'd be really grateful.

x in the city

You should deffo so some A+ and such exams and brush up your skills...

I have a job nailed but might also do some Verilog coding at the weekend myself, to keep my skills up to scratch.

Loads of Irish people with CS degrees want a job and not having a basic degree will count against you

Stheno

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Your out of touch with tech, have no real relevant experience or qualifications and specialize in nothing. Helpdesk job in Dublin at around 18-20k is a possibility. Costs are high, though not high enough to cripple you.

+1 one, with no experience or certifications, and no specialisation, I think you'd be lucky to even get an entry level role as a helpdesk analyst.

Even with certifications/a degree, you may struggle as you've no experience. I had a person in my job last year who did a FAS course, after an IT degree, and got CCNA and A+ certified as a result of the course and ended up taking what's called a Work Placement Program role here for nine months to get experience in a company, Work Placement Programs are unpaid.

Even people with jobs in IT are constantly upskilling and recertifying in their area of specialisation, especially now.

You may be lucky to get a role if you have languages, but outside of that you'd struggle imo to get even the most basic entry level role.

common sense brigade

http://www.irishjobs.ie/Jobs/IT-Systems-Engineering-Graduate-Programme-6453873.aspx
here is a link to a job you might be interested in.Graduate IT System Engineers.
Good Luck
Just apply and see what they say. The website Irishjobs.ie may help you. As for Rent if you live in a commuter town near Dublin you will prob pay anywwhere from 300-500 euro per month on a double room. I have a house in Bray i rent rooms in it for 420 per month and i pay all the bills for the tenants., esb, bins, tv and internet. the closer you go to Dublin city centre the dearer it is. dont give up. if you dream of being in Ireland theres nothing wrong with that at all. It is very hard at moment to find work though but things may improve.

x in the city

That needs a degree, without having a degree forget any IT or Tech jobs.

common sense brigade

there is nothing wrong with trying your hardest. have a look on the website i sent you . and throw ur cv in for the job. if ur not in you cant win