SONY - Go on do it I DARE you - Geohot

zod

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iUvuaChDEg

lee_baby_simms

I hope they put him away for a long time.

TouchingVirus

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

I hope they put him away for a long time.

Why? Because if you had a clue, you wouldn't.

tman

TouchingVirus wrote: »

Why? Because if you had a clue, you wouldn't.

Who knows... Prison might wipe some of that irritating smugness away!
Fair play to him for trying and all that, but he's an egotistical wanker imho

Liamario

In the grand scheme of things, he's a nobody. Unfortunately, fickle internet fanboys are making him out to be some kind of robin hood type figure.

I'm confident that they would turn on him just as quick if Sony brought in some drachonian DRM as a result of his actions.

Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

knuth

Liamario wrote: »

In the grand scheme of things, he's a nobody. Unfortunately, fickle internet fanboys are making him out to be some kind of robin hood type figure.

I'm confident that they would turn on him just as quick if Sony brought in some drachonian DRM as a result of his actions.

Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

People did turn on him when otheros was removed.

He's cocky / arrogant too but personally that's too little to hold a grudge against anyone for.

Anyway, I think he should stick with what he does best

Myrddin

In the classic old school tradition of rock n roll, he's sticking it to man. Hats off to him for it, & for not cringing on his kness.

Sony collecting information about your home network every time you turn your console on, wants to know who you are because you watched a youtube video, makes a console less capable with every 'update', now in court themselves for allegedly stealing patented technology owned by LG, in trouble again in Norway for breaching customer rights by removing OtherOS. Come on Sony, destroy the evil hackers like GeoHot, protect us from the full potential of the consoles we bought, & keep us safe in the knowledge that the technology that's being used to steal games via the PS3 blu-ray drive might actually be stolen itself :rolleyes:

If anyone actually cared to compare GeoHot's custom firmware, to kmeaw's & Waninkoko's...they'd see the real sadness in all of this. GeoHot's message in that rap video is about freedom of speech, something your either for or against. Sad to see so many against it, now more than ever. This whole court case has about as much to do with gaming consoles as the man in the moon.

Myrddin

lordlame wrote: »

People did turn on him when otheros was removed

Again down to the ignorence of said people. The PS3 Slim never had OtherOS, and was released before this whole thing began. It was going anyway, it was just good fortune to have a scape-goat there to take the backlash for it.

lee_baby_simms

TouchingVirus wrote: »

Why? Because if you had a clue, you wouldn't.

i didn't really mean it - i just found the video annoying. For the record i'm on 3.55 cfw.

Ciaran500

That man is a knob end. But TBH, that rap was far better than I was expecting and does have a good message.

lee_baby_simms

EnterNow wrote: »

In the classic old school tradition of rock n roll, he's sticking it to man. Hats off to him for it, & for not cringing on his kness.

Sony collecting information about your home network every time you turn your console on, wants to know who you are because you watched a youtube video, makes a console less capable with every 'update', now in court themselves for allegedly stealing patented technology owned by LG, in trouble again in Norway for breaching customer rights by removing OtherOS. Come on Sony, destroy the evil hackers like GeoHot, protect us from the full potential of the consoles we bought, & keep us safe in the knowledge that the technology that's being used to steal games via the PS3 blu-ray drive might actually be stolen itself :rolleyes:

If anyone actually cared to compare GeoHot's custom firmware, to kmeaw's & Waninkoko's...they'd see the real sadness in all of this. GeoHot's message in that rap video is about freedom of speech, something your either for or against. Sad to see so many against it, now more than ever. This whole court case has about as much to do with gaming consoles as the man in the moon.

I agree with what you're saying but isn't this all about piracy rather than homebrew and modding?

If cfw allowed people to run homebrew apps but not run pirated games we wouldn't be seeing such aggressively litigious behaviour from Sony.

Myrddin

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

If cfw allowed people to run homebrew apps but not run pirated games we wouldn't be seeing such aggressively litigious behaviour from Sony.

Like the CFW from GeoHot? As I said, people really need to look at both sides before making an opinion.

GeoHot CFW - Signed applications only, using his signing tools.
Kmeaw CFW - Peek & Poke patched, signed & non signed applications allowed
Waninkoko CGW - Same as Kmeaw but with LV1 tool added.

With GeoHot CFW 3.55, you cannot natively run backups. Despite this, lock him up & throw away the key?

Reamer Fanny

I'd say he will make enough theoretical dollars to battle Sony that was better than star wars kid

He defo has some sort of ADD, i remember seing an interview with Christopher Tarnovsky the nagravision hacker where he explained he suffers from attention deficit hyperactivity disorder which allowed him to fly through code and hack at a rapid pace.

Myrddin

cisk wrote: »

He defo has some sort of ADD, i remember seing an interview with Christopher Tarnovsky the nagravision hacker where he explained he suffers from attention deficit hyperactivity disorder which allowed him to fly through code and hack at a rapid pace.

It's weird how they call it Attention Defecit If I focused intently on learning how to programme it would still look like Egyptian to me Yet these people that have difficulty concentrating apparently breeze through it -no fair

Varik

Is there a higher res version of this uploaded anywhere?

I want to see if that is the key he was showing.

docentore

EnterNow wrote: »

It's weird how they call it Attention Defecit If I focused intently on learning how to programme it would still look like Egyptian to me Yet these people that have difficulty concentrating apparently breeze through it -no fair

Someone who isn't me was diagnosed with ADD/ADHD. Believe me, this person can have FULL attention on things that he is interested in. It is very handy in any IT support / development as those people think completely out of box, see thing differently and solve problems unsolvable for others

Myrddin

docentore wrote: »

Someone who isn't me was diagnosed with ADD/ADHD. Believe me, this person can have FULL attention on things that he is interested in. It is very handy in any IT support / development as those people think completely out of box, see thing differently and solve problems unsolvable for others

Ah selective concentration, mark me down as having ADD then

Myrddin

Varik wrote: »

Is there a higher res version of this uploaded anywhere?

I want to see if that is the key he was showing.

Like the one Sony already tweeted themselves?



But then again there are multiple keys arn't there Varik. Or were you not aware of that, seeing as you don't visit lowly 'scene' sites? Yep, the usb dongle master key is now public knowledge thanks to Sony :rolleyes::D

Edit - That usb key has been known for ages, but tweeting it will make them look like clowns in a court of law when trying to prosecute for someone for doing the exact same thing (GeoHot with MetLDR key)

Varik

EnterNow wrote: »

Like the one Sony already tweeted themselves?

But then again there are multiple keys arn't there Varik. Or were you not aware of that, seeing as you don't visit lowly 'scene' sites? Yep, the usb dongle master key is now public knowledge thanks to Sony :rolleyes::D

Edit - That usb key has been known for ages, but tweeting it will make them look like clowns in a court of law when trying to prosecute for someone for doing the exact same thing (GeoHot with MetLDR key)

The Deutsch/LA ad agency are the one who created Kevin Butler and run his twitter account, it was't Sony themselves and they would have only seen it the same time as the rest of the world. If anything Sony might get a discount for future work by Deutsch.

Myrddin

How were you able to make out those digits Varik? By the way, if thats the metldr key I'd get myself a good solicitor if I were you, you will have just done exactly what GeoHot done to land himself in court.

TouchingVirus

Well that is the key Geohot has in the video with TRO approved anyways, it matches up with Varik's picture

Myrddin

TouchingVirus wrote: »

Well that is the key Geohot has in the video with TRO approved anyways, it matches up with Varik's picture

Are you guys zooming in or something? While the formatting looks the same, I can't make out any digits (on a 42" screen too). Not that I want to know that code, bad things happen to those who know it.

Liamario

I find it hilarious that people are defending this guy, like he didn't know that releasing the info he released wasn't going to be used to enable pirated games.
These same people like to pretend they would only use the feature to back up their games. Which, we all know is bull****.

My concern isn't for poor Sony to make money, but because of the info this little **** knowingly released, developers of all levels are going to suffer.

Sony are going to be constantly releasing firmware updates and god knows what sort of DRM they might introduce.
Also, how is all this going to affect the next generation of consoles from all the manufacturers.

The vast vast majority of players, couldn't give two flying f**ks about Other OS or even your CFW. But now we are the ones who are suffering.
Suffering because some you think GeoHot is some sort of Robin Hood type figure.

Myrddin

Liamario wrote: »

I find it hilarious that people are defending this guy, like he didn't know that releasing the info he released wasn't going to be used to enable pirated games.
These same people like to pretend they would only use the feature to back up their games. Which, we all know is bull****.

My concern isn't for poor Sony to make money, but because of the info this little **** knowingly released, developers of all levels are going to suffer.

Sony are going to be constantly releasing firmware updates and god knows what sort of DRM they might introduce.
Also, how is all this going to affect the next generation of consoles from all the manufacturers.

The vast vast majority of players, couldn't give two flying f**ks about Other OS or even your CFW. But now we are the ones who are suffering.
Suffering because some you think GeoHot is some sort of Robin Hood type figure.

Every console on the planet has been hacked, why are things any different now?

Sony will be constantly releasing updates? Well yeah, like they always have done. How else did FW get from 1.0 to 3.15?

Backup managers don't function on GeoHot's CFW, as he left the LV2 protection in place. So what's your point about cfw?

How is it bull? Would a fully fledged media center with ntfs & native mkv playback not appeal to you? Doesn't sound like bs to me.

The vast majority of gamers are suffering because we thing GeoHot is a Robin Hood type figure? Ok lol.

TouchingVirus

720p Video, zoom and sharpen on photoshop and you can just about make out certain shapes that correspond to the numbers for that particular block (e.g. I can just about make out what looks to be a 3 in the second last number on the K line and the actual code there is 3D )

It's deliberately hard to see though, even CSI couldn't prove beyond doubt it's the actual key with their image wizardy

Myrddin

TouchingVirus wrote: »

720p Video, zoom and sharpen on photoshop and you can just about make out certain shapes that correspond to the numbers for that particular block (e.g. I can just about make out what looks to be a 3 in the second last number on the K line and the actual code there is 3D )

It's deliberately hard to see though, even CSI couldn't prove beyond doubt it's the actual key with their image wizardy

That's my point, there only has to be one digit in it different, or blurred, & it's no longer the key. That's why I think posting it while the photo is unverified as showing it isn't necessarily wise.

TouchingVirus

Liamario wrote: »

I find it hilarious that people are defending this guy, like he didn't know that releasing the info he released wasn't going to be used to enable pirated games.
These same people like to pretend they would only use the feature to back up their games. Which, we all know is bull****.

So because it could be used for piracy he should have kept it to himself? There are lots of things out there that can be used for illegal things but have legitimate uses too.

What would eradicate the need for backups is if game companies realised that there is a need for a disc exchange program, even with a nominal fee attached, where a user wouldn't have to be protective of their original disc. You hand in the scratched to bits one that your dog ate and get a fresh one in the post for €5 all in. Then the old *backup* "excuse" would be well and truly voided.

Then there's the question of hard drive loading - undoubtedly faster and quieter than loading randomly from an optical drive. Why don't Sony have this option? The 360 does, and it's fantastic. One large hard drive, one whole disc read and then you only need the disc in for spot security checks.

Again, it'll only help get rid of the backups POV that is currently a very valid reason for hacking your PS3

My concern isn't for poor Sony to make money, but because of the info this little **** knowingly released, developers of all levels are going to suffer.

Funnily enough, they're managing quite well on the xbox 360 and piracy has been rife on that platform for many years. That's not to belittle their predicament, they will lose money, but developers have options. Serial codes with online/phone activation is a solution - a nasty one, but a solution nonetheless. Quit relying on the security of the device to be adequate.

Sony are going to be constantly releasing firmware updates and god knows what sort of DRM they might introduce.

Not really your issue if you're keeping it all legal, that's the point of DRM isn't it? You can expect with a massive userbase they'll try implement the most effective DRM with minimal impact on the end users.

Also, how is all this going to affect the next generation of consoles from all the manufacturers.

Why is this a concern at all? The whole thing is a cat and mouse game. Old consoles broken wide open, new console secure for a while and then hacked - rinse and repeat. Again, this isn't an issue for you if you keep it legal.

The vast vast majority of players, couldn't give two flying f**ks about Other OS or even your CFW. But now we are the ones who are suffering.
Suffering because some you think GeoHot is some sort of Robin Hood type figure.

How are you suffering? What can you not do now that you used to be able to? How do you know OtherOS wasn't a significant feature? Why do you not care Sony removed a previously advertised feature from their product - it's like saying your TV can't tune in RTE anymore after you've had it 4 years - bull****!

Geohot may be egotistical and in it for the glory, but he's a researcher. He researched, he made some finding and he released them. Now he's being hunted but is fighting back, and fair play to him for it.

Liamario

I'm not going to go down the road of quoting every little point that someone has made, it's tedious to say the least.

• You all seem to be talking about it from your own perspective. Just because you may not use it for piracy, it doesn't mean other people won't.
• The PS3 being hacked is no better or worse than the other consoles having it done to them. The consoles in most cases aren't being hacked just for CFW or whatever the 360 equivalent is. They are being hacked so people can get free games. You can't spin that.
• Serial codes and phone activiation is not a solution to stop pirated games. It's a punishment for those who have been buying games legitimately. Also, just because the 360 hasn't suffered that much, it doesn't make it right.
• Sony do regularly bring out FW updates, mostly for the addition of new features. But now, there is a strong possibility that development of new features will cease and we will be constantly having to sit through security updates.
• You are support Robin GeoHot Hood and thus supporting piracy. As I've already mentioned, the info he released helped pave the way to game backups. And he knew this.
• I couldn't care less about your CFW and I'm sure Sony couldn't either. The issue for them is piracy. While I fully support any legitmate means of backing up your games, If you wipe your arse with your stuff, tough **** to you. Take care of your ****ing ****. Backing up your stuff isn't intended to allow you to get free games, every time you use a CD as a coaster. Also, in a world where you can trade in your games, what's to stop someone from trading in their game and just keeping the backup?!?!?!

Myrddin

Liamario wrote: »

I'm not going to go down the road of quoting every little point that someone has made, it's tedious to say the least

Well, em, we're countering your points, so if you don't want to hear other people views, a public discussion forum isn't the best place for you really.

Yes I view it from my perspective, I'm me, and I'm on the side that belives you own your hardware - in this case the PS3. I'm on the side that believes in buying & owning something your free to do whatever you wish to.

We can't spin what? That consoles are hacked for piracy? Strange then that there were no real efforts to hack the PS3 while OtherOS was present. Strange then, that all this kicked off when the Slim was released with no OtherOS. Spin that.

Serial codes have existed on the pc for years as a piracy counter measure. They're completely ineffective, & a waste of time. Cunning though from Sony's point of view, it's an easy way to turn closed minded people against evil hackers.

Sony bring out regular updates, mostly for the addition of new features? Lol, you've got to be kidding man seriously :pac::pac::pac:

So by supporting GeoHot's fight for the freedom of speech, one is supporting piracy? Explain to me how the metldr key enables piracy on a firmware 3.55 then?

If Sony don't care about CFW, why are they looking for the identities of everyone who watched GeoHot's 3.55 CFW youtube video? You support legitimate means of backing up games for archival purposes?? That very act is illegal, you must be a big pirate are you

Software is rife on the 360 as TV mentioned, yet the experience is generally very positive and non intrusive, unlike Sony's approach. It seems Microsoft just have a better way of doing things.

Myrddin

Liamario wrote: »

tough **** to you. Take care of your ****ing ****.

Oh, and lay off the expletives will you

Liamario

EnterNow, is there any chance you can behave like a moderator, instead of talking to me with the condescending tone you're using.
I said I wasn't going to quote everyone's point, that's not to say you don't have to. If we were all to star quoting each other, we'd get two posts per page.

Yes I view it from my perspective, I'm me, and I'm on the side that belives you own your hardware - in this case the PS3. I'm on the side that believes in buying & owning something your free to do whatever you wish to.

Did I say you weren't allowed your opinion?! The point i'm making, is that maybe you should take a look at all the arguements rather than how it just affects you.

Oh, and lay off the expletives will you

Yes I will. Lay off on the talking down to me will you. Just because you're a moderator, it doesn't make you some sort of superior being. In the same way that just because you cna hack your console, it doesn't mean you should.

Myrddin

Liamario wrote: »

EnterNow, is there any chance you can behave like a moderator, instead of talking to me with the condescending tone you're using.
I said I wasn't going to quote everyone's point, that's not to say you don't have to. If we were all to star quoting each other, we'd get two posts per page.



Did I say you weren't allowed your opinion?! The point i'm making, is that maybe you should take a look at all the arguements rather than how it just affects you.


Yes I will. Lay off on the talking down to me will you. Just because you're a moderator, it doesn't make you some sort of superior being. In the same way that just because you cna hack your console, it doesn't mean you should.

I think your taking me up wrong here, if I was a power happy condescending type mod I wouldn't be interested in having this discussion, & encouraging you/us to address all of each others points. I'd be stepping in with bold text on everything I didn't want to hear. It's a discussion forum, & as long as the rules and charter are being adhered to then we can discuss any points we wish to.

If you feel your being treated any differently that others, or being talked down to etc, there's a transparent procedure you should follow. It begins with contacting me via pm and discussing your concerns, if your still not happy, feel free to contact one of the cMods & make your thoughts known.

I stand by everything I said, & I know myself I believe in those points which is why I made them & wish to discuss them

Now, if your talking about viewing things form all sides (which I'm a big advocate of believe it or not), how about this theoretical scenario - I buy Gran Turismo 5 ok. My PS3 is on Firmware 3.41, meaning I have to submit to mandatory updates to play the game (even though I've bought and paid for the game, and the console to play it on). But in doing so, it will make my 3rd party joypad/stick/wheel not function anymore and I'll have to go out and pay for a Sony one. Do I;

1) Update the console, loose all my emulators etc & loose the ability to use my 3rd party controller which will cost me yet more money?

or

2) Install CFW & play the game on my current firmware, and loosing nothing.

Now whether people choose option 1 or 2, don't discount the fact that neither of these options involve the user being a thieving pirate.

TouchingVirus

You're right, people will use this for piracy. People will use knives to stab people and guns to shoot people. People will use cars in bank heists as a byproduct of getting from A to B and will use Stethoscopes to crack old-skool safes. On a more software based level people will use software designed to find free Wifi connections to listen to existing connections and steal facebook accounts and other personal details.

This isn't what these things were originally designed and released for, but nefarious uses are a byproduct. C'est la vie - it's human nature. No amount of "Only use this for the good reasons I'm releasing it" will stop people seeing what else it can be used for. This is not good enough justification to villianise the people who are doing the research. And the reaction from Sony is just cause to actually try and protect these researchers.

The original reasons why consoles are being hacked, from the hackers themselves, is linux in almost all cases. Look at the 27c3 slide in the fail0verflow presentation. That piracy has come as a side effect is just that, a side effect. If console manufacturers spent more time giving people what they want and actually embraced the fact that people will look to do alternative things with their platform and spent time trying to separate the security for that from the security required to prevent piracy then it would be money well spent - the PS3 would not have been cracked by the fail0verflow team. If Sony didn't remove OtherOS Geohot wouldn't have gotten involved. For 4 years the system was secure, and undoubtedly people were looking at it from day 1 with Piracy in mind.

Of course serial codes/activation is a valid solution. It is as much a punishment as somebody having to drive to the store to buy the game, open the plastic wrapping and place the CD in the tray. The thing about the PC is it allows people to run their own peek/poke or activation emulators to get around this stuff. The PS3 doesn't have any of that hacker-friendliness at the minute, and I suspect it'd be a while before it arrives. In the meantime, happy piracy-free days

The 360 has suffered more than the PS3, piracy has been rife on it for years. No, it doesn't make it right that piracy is around, but it's here and going nowhere. I don't get your point on this at all - you seem to be bleating the Piracy is Bad line that we already know...

There is as much possibility that new features will be stopped as there ever was. Sony won't punish people for this - the people responsible for security are entirely different from the people responsible for the PSN experience/XMB experience. Updates happen, you update and that's that. They happened before Geohot and will have happened had he not released the metldr keys.

Supporting Geohot is supporting piracy? Don't make me laugh - the two are mutually exclusive. Of course he knew what he released would enable piracy, but that isn't his fault. Once again, it was a byproduct of the way the security (and all security for consoles) has been designed to date. Had the security been different he has indicated he would have done enough to re-enable OtherOS or an improved OtherOS with full GPU access and not to go down the road of Backup Managers. His own firmware does not allow Backup Managers to run. Once again you're demonstrating very little knowledge of the whole situation.

On the subject of backups - there should be no need for backups to exist or for manufacturers to accomodate backups. There should be processes in place to minimise the requirement of a backup. I'm sure that even you have managed to break something by accident or mistreated your "****ing ****" at some point or another. Look at the 360 which will wreck a disc if you accidentally rock it when it's on with a disc spinning (kicking it by accident walking by, pulling the charge cord and it falling over etc). I know a lot of folks who'd download a copy of a game that fell foul of these situations rather than fork out another 60 blips. A scratched-disc exchange with a fee to cover the disc pressing would solve that problem. You don't need to give the developers more money for another license IMO, you've paid them your dues. Loading games to a hard drive - reduced laser wear for the console, reduced burn-in on your CD. Games locked to the console they're installed on, no disc no play. Win-win for user (major loading time improvement) and manufacturer (happy consumer, no piracy and no need to RMA the console for a wrecked laser). There's the only legit reason for a backup (to protect your original CD) gone out the window, why else would you want a backup now other than piracy?

I can't help but get the feeling that because you're being inconvenienced (and I can't really see how either, but you say you are), you're against all form of embedded systems or security research. This case will set a precedent for console research and it's very important that the end result doesn't stymy that research in these fields. It goes beyond piracy which is all you seem to be concerned about - that you pay for your games and others don't.

Look at the wider problems here, take off your piracy blinkers.

Liamario

If that scenario is indeed accurate, then of course, you could be justified in going to a CFW. At the same time, unless it's an offically licensed product, you don't have a leg to stand on.

It really is no different than a toaster that works via usb on the ps3, but Sony's firmware stopped it from working anymore. It's not a supported product.

I'm not saying that Sony are right on everything. My only issues with hacking is how it affects online play and people pirating software.

If stopping piracy means no CFW, then I'll take no CFW. Unfortunately, these things now appear to go hand in hand.

I'll admit I don't know the intricacies of what GeoHot did in terms of enabling backups. But, I'm confident that at least some of his research and work was a building block towards backups.
My anger isn't aimed only at him, but at the rest of the hackers.

Just one more comment. Some people are not too bothered about any new DRM sony might bring in. That's fine for you, but it's not fine for me. If your game disc is locked to your machine, how is someone going to bring their game over to someone elses console? It's not as clear cut as people are making it out. There are always repurcussions.

Myrddin

Liamario wrote: »

If that scenario is indeed accurate, then of course, you could be justified in going to a CFW. At the same time, unless it's an offically licensed product, you don't have a leg to stand on.

It really is no different than a toaster that works via usb on the ps3, but Sony's firmware stopped it from working anymore. It's not a supported product.

I'm not saying that Sony are right on everything. My only issues with hacking is how it affects online play and people pirating software.

If stopping piracy means no CFW, then I'll take no CFW. Unfortunately, these things now appear to go hand in hand.

I'll admit I don't know the intricacies of what GeoHot did in terms of enabling backups. But, I'm confident that at least some of his research and work was a building block towards backups.
My anger isn't aimed only at him, but at the rest of the hackers.

Just one more comment. Some people are not too bothered about any new DRM sony might bring in. That's fine for you, but it's not fine for me. If your game disc is locked to your machine, how is someone going to bring their game over to someone elses console? It's not as clear cut as people are making it out. There are always repurcussions.

I'm in complete agreement with you with regards PSN. I don't believe it's fair to use modded consoles in a market with standard consoles. I've said it a few times that the people who are getting free games, & then using the free PSN service are taking too big a bite of the cherry completely. The user should have to make a conscious decision, homebrew or online use. Having both I feel is just wreckless, & brings all the media hyped stuff to attention.

People who hack MW2 to cheat are in no way on the same level as homebrew developers. As TV said, it's n unfortunate byproduct which there's no getting away from.

The controller scenario was just an example. What about OtherOS, what of the people who actually did use it? Newer games & PSN meant that had to say goodbye to a feature that was a selling point of the console? In your own words, there are two sides. But your not making the distiction between childish people who cheat at online games, & those who are giving us Sony have failed to give us for the last four years.

You don't have to know the fine details of the GeoHot story, the technicalities of it are beyond myself too. Your right in that his work has probably lent a hand to where we are today with cfw etc. But again, the piracy is only a byproduct of the work. GeoHot would have had other motives for sure, but not being able to afford to buy games would not have been one of them. The forced firmware programme, & removal of OtherOS (slim) would have been a catalyst I'm sure.

I'm not bothered about the new DRM procedures, because I see it for what it really is. Just answer me this, why are those same procedures not present on the Xbox 360? Short of 1st party titles, the game lineup is exactly the same.

Myrddin

Also that unlicensed controller thing, I see that for what it really is too. Why is it they were ever allowed to work if not supported? Strange how they decided to remove support for them, just around the time when people were looking at all kinds of usb devices to exploit the PS3. Again, clever stuff by Sony from a social warfare pov.

lee_baby_simms

I always groan when people trot out 'freedom of speech' when it suits their cause.

The same people probably don't rush to defend Nick Griffins right to freedom of speech when he spreads racial hatred.

I agree 100% with Liamario points. I find the worship of geohot cos 'hes stickin it to the man' and the vilification of Sony for trying to protect their own IP within the realms of the law equally sickening...but this is a console modding forum I guess. People are entitled to do whatever they want at whatever cost to developers and fellow users on official firmware right? Ok I got it.

Its way too early to say how piracy will effect the ps3 but I can't see how it will help ensure the integrity of of titles in the future and more importantly support jobs of people in the videogame industry.

Myrddin

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

I always groan when people trot out 'freedom of speech' when it suits their cause.

The same people probably don't rush to defend Nick Griffins right to freedom of speech when he spreads racial hatred.

I agree 100% with Liamario points. I find the worship of geohot cos 'hes stickin it to the man' and the vilification of Sony for trying to protect their own IP within the realms of the law equally sickening...but this is a console modding forum I guess. People are entitled to do whatever they want at whatever cost to developers and fellow users on official firmware right? Ok I got it.

Its way too early to say how piracy will effect the ps3 but I can't see how it will help ensure the integrity of of titles in the future and more importantly support jobs of people in the videogame industry.

I wonder will the judge view the case against Sony for allegedly stealing patented LG technology for use in their PS3 blu ray drives with equal distain. I would hope not for Sony's sake.

Who's worshipping GeoHot here? He was able to obtain a certain key, with tools he wrote himself, which ran legitimately on 3.15 OtherOS..he then made said code public (which is the real problem for him, as it fell under the Digital Millenium Act). While that's not the issue for me, it's stuff like a simple youtube video, showing 3.55 Custom Firmware runnning, with all the LV2 security still in place that has brought the 'freedom of speech' thing for me. What is the issue with people watching or commenting on said video?

Racial hatred is an incitment to violence, possible human suffering. Why would anybody support that? That's racial hatred under the false guide of freedom of speech.

As has been said many times already & gone unanswered everytime, the Xbox360 is rife with piracy, but in Decemeber last year seen its best month. While piracy is wrong, & not the issue here, I feel obliged to ask why the Xbox 360 os doing so well despite this?

Myrddin

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

but this is a console modding forum I guess. People are entitled to do whatever they want at whatever cost to developers and fellow users on official firmware right? Ok I got it

Limario, if your looking for a condescending attitude, thats it right there. Lee_baby_simms, piracy isn't condoned nor permitted here...what's your point?

lee_baby_simms

EnterNow wrote: »

While piracy is wrong, & not the issue here, I feel obliged to ask why the Xbox 360 os doing so well despite this?

Piracy is not the issue for you, sure. But its there. I know YOU don't like it but a lot of people do and will avail of it. For you to have your cake and eat it without acknowledging fully the collateral damage caused by cfw and for you to insinuate that piracy doesn't seriously affect software sales just goes to prove how skewered this debate is.

As has been said many times already & gone unanswered everytime, the Xbox360 is rife with piracy, but in Decemeber last year seen its best month.

It seems quite obvious to me. How do you know piracy is rife on the 360?

It's my understanding that to pirate games on the xbox you have to invalidate the warranty(not ideal given the reliability issues its known for), open it up and physically mod it (theres a cost and potential risk there)and also expose yourself to an almost certain permanent ban from xbox live.

Quite different to the free, software based and 100% reversible hack on the ps3. Why don't you go onto torrent sites and look at the amount of copies of Killzone 3 that are currently being downloaded.

But anyway, I digress. I think this debate is fruitless as we clearly disagree on a very fundamental level here and I don't wanna get banned! :P

lee_baby_simms

EnterNow wrote: »

Lee_baby_simms, piracy isn't condoned nor permitted here...what's your point?

Its obviously not recognised at all.

Myrddin

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

Its obviously not recognised at all.

Enlighten me then.

You won't get banned for disagreeing with me lol, I'm open minded & enjoy the debate. I'm not set on one opinion & I will listen to everyone with an open mind. I just havn't heard anything so far that changes my beliefs.

Edit - for somoeone so seemingly staunchly opposed to 'hacked' consoles, you have some interesting posts in this forum I've just noticed. Here's one for example, and another wondering if we can remove region locking from blu-rays? Now I can respect Limario because of his opinion on the subject, but your here slating everyone for worshipping GeoHot & then looking for advice of the best homebrew 'magic'?? Which is it, because the way I see it your just trolling at this point.

lee_baby_simms

Well I think the original point was that there is a pervasive

Sony = evil, geohot = good

...sentiment on this forum like this was some sort of simple modern day David v Goliath.

Personally I think Sony have every right to pursue individuals who they believe are threatening their IP as long as they stay within the law and, for the record, I have no loyalty to Sony. They have a platform they're trying to protect, shareholders to satisfy, publishers to reassure.

I also have no problem with modding per se, I personally can't for mkv playback, but I just feel that its a little bit irresponsible to champion the homebrew scene whilst not condoning piracy yet also claim that piracy isn't an issue and insinuate that Sony somehow deserve it...all the time not taking into account the widereaching effect piracy has on not just Sony but developers, publishers and legitimate users.

CiaranC

Your points would make more sense if Sony hadnt proved over and over again that they are in fact "evil". Try doing some reading.

And this piracy scaremongering is nonsense. Piracy has been rife on xbox for years and it has outsold the PS3 on units and on games. At least come up with a reasonable argument instead of parroting Sonys PR department.

Some of us like to hack OUR hardware to use it to its full potential. If you dont agree, then just dont do it, it doesnt affect you in any way.

Ive been listening to whiners whining about piracy killing video games since I got a Commodore 64. The death of the industry was imminent any second. Video games are now bigger than movies. Go figure.

Myrddin

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

Well I think the original point was that there is a pervasive

Sony = evil, geohot = good

...sentiment on this forum like this was some sort of simple modern day David v Goliath.

Personally I think Sony have every right to pursue individuals who they believe are threatening their IP as long as they stay within the law and, for the record, I have no loyalty to Sony. They have a platform they're trying to protect, shareholders to satisfy, publishers to reassure.

I also have no problem with modding per se, I personally can't for mkv playback, but I just feel that its a little bit irresponsible to champion the homebrew scene whilst not condoning piracy yet also claim that piracy isn't an issue and insinuate that Sony somehow deserve it...all the time not taking into account the widereaching effect piracy has on not just Sony but developers, publishers and legitimate users.

It's nothing like that. In my case, you might feel I'm anti-Sony. I'm not at all, I've two PSP's, a Playstation 1, a PSone, a Playstation 2 & a Playstation 3. I've no gripe with Sony at all, and if it were Microsoft in this case my feelings would be the exact same.

It's not a David v Goliath case either for me, Sony consoles up until very recently were the epitome of game consoles to me. The PS1 & PS2 were stunning units of their time, with features & pro's that raised the bar. What turned my opinion on it's head, was a few things. Things like when I found out what information the PS3 is collecting about you, and sending that info to Sony every time you turn it on, regardless of if you have a PSN account or not. That to me is a complete invasion of privacy, fair enough console specific data that's one thing, but all the info about all the other devices on your home network? I'm sorry but that's a big no-no for me.

Other things like forced software updates have turned my opinion of them. If I buy a console, and buy a game, I should have the right to use the console what I purchased it for without worrying about what features are being added (or removed really).

This whole Google/Youtube debacle is another down turn against them for me. What right in the world, do they have, to order Google/Youtube to hand over ip addresses of anyone who watched the video? Like if my granny was in the room when I played the video, does that make her an accessory to piracy? It's insane what dollars can get you these days.

I give them many thumbs up, such as free PSN. It's a fantastic thing to offer folks who like online gaming. They also won the hd media war with Blu-Ray, putting an end to should I buy hd-dvd or blu-ray, which was raging for far longer than it should of. For the most part, they make excellent products (solder aside) and I would consider them a maker of high quality products in general with tv's etc.

But some of the methods that have come to light, namely the home network thing & youtube...just make me question why this doesn't bother those who use such things? Google got into trouble for such practices in the UK very recently, it's a complete invasion. Therefore while it may be percieved that I support GeoHot, I actually know very little about him. But my support for him comes form the sense that Sony themselves are at fault here too, most people just either don't know that or want to hear it. It's not an Anti-Sony thing, it's about when two people have done the wrong thing, why should the one with the most dollars be percieved as the innocent victim here.

lee_baby_simms

Again its a bit more complex. Just because Call of Duty breaks records doesn't mean that the industry is thriving. Jobs in the games industry are being cut everyday.

And also going back to piracy being rife on the xbox 360 - I think the point is that the PS3 exploit is far easier and more attractive than the xbox 360 dvd flashing.

As I said before - its early days.

lee_baby_simms

EnterNow wrote: »

Other things like forced software updates have turned my opinion of them. If I buy a console, and buy a game, I should have the right to use the console what I purchased it for without worrying about what features are being added (or removed really).

Well you can if you don't connect online. Otherwise you have to agree to terms and conditions before a software update.

Myrddin

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

Well you can if you don't connect online. Otherwise you have to agree to terms and conditions before a software update.

Nothing to do with online, GT5 just won't run on 3.41 (officially anyway). This is the kind of thing that forces people into looking at other solutions. What's wrong with;

"To play Gran Turismo 5 with PSN, you must first accept the update. Failure to do so will result in single player operation only."

This way, people who arn't interested in PSN can play the game, & those that want to use PSN update the console & get to play online with all the security still in place.

lee_baby_simms

EnterNow wrote: »

Nothing to do with online, GT5 just won't run on 3.41 (officially anyway). This is the kind of thing that forces people into looking at other solutions. What's wrong with;

"To play Gran Turismo 5 with PSN, you must first accept the update. Failure to do so will result in single player operation only."

This way, people who arn't interested in PSN can play the game, & those that want to use PSN update the console & get to play online with all the security still in place.

Ok I accept that.

Myrddin

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

Ok I accept that.

That's all I ask, at the very least your debating with an open mind, fair play. I've seen users where it would kill them to accept the point of someone they were debating with & they'd just not reply.