Newbury - WTF?

Nulty

Two horses (Marching Song and Fenix Two) collapse dead in similar fashion within 15 yards of one another in the paddock at Newbury. Reports that two other horses 'wobbled' in the paddock (Kid Cassidy and The Merry Giant).

There are suggestions that cattle have incurred a similar fate on the property of land owners in the vicinity. Some people are guessing that maybe an electric current or something might have traveled through the ground.

Really weird

Pre-parade ring to be used instead of the cursed paddock to parade horses, racing goes ahead so far. Post mortems ordered on

Funfair

Very srange indeed, I fancied Marching Song each way for this..

mike65

Clearly a strange one, an electric current would have been picked up as a leak by the utility company I'm sure.

HigginsJ

Thats very weird.

Nulty

Its off now - abandoned

mike65

Racing abandoned

GampDub

Madness, right decision though! Not worth the risk...

Im Only 71Kg

thats crazy news..

what happens to bets when a race event is called off lke this? i placed a lucky 15 with 2 selections at newbury. will it be refunded or just go on the other 2 selections.

ctrl-alt-delete

GampDub wrote: »

Madness, right decision though! Not worth the risk...

Yeah, they couldn't risk it when they have no idea what has caused it for now, especially if it is something in or around the parade ring,

Horrible watching the video footage, the poor horses.

Edit: reports now that some of the horses that did run have recieved burns from the metal bridles in their mouths - this is just crazy goings on.

ctrl-alt-delete

Im Only 71Kg wrote: »

thats crazy news..

what happens to bets when a race event is called off lke this? i placed a lucky 15 with 2 selections at newbury. will it be refunded or just go on the other 2 selections.

I think they will be classed as non runners, and the bet will be on the other two.

I have a lucky 15 with 4 from Newbury so i presume mine will be refunded.

Im Only 71Kg

thanks..crazy news altogether.

Nulty

What a **** days racing....for one that promised so much :mad:

FergalSheehy

Two horses collapsed and died in the paddock before the first race at Newbury. Early news is that It looks like they've been electrocuted. http://on.fb.me/ftbbSS

UrbanSea

Pity that.
Al Ferof was evens earlier,won at 1/4. If you backed it there's no rule 4,that would have been one hell of a bet!

krustydoyle

Article from the post website
http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse-racing/newbury-launches-probe-after-horses-die-in-paddock/818358/top/

WHIP IT!

Nice to see all the lads focusing on the most imporant thing here - their 20pence Lucky 15... not the owner, trainer, lad/lass or, certainly not the poor f*ckin horse himself - don't be silly :rolleyes:

Bruthal

mike65 wrote: »

Clearly a strange one, an electric current would have been picked up as a leak by the utility company I'm sure.

Would they?

Lapin

Very strange circumstances and deeply sad for connections.

Of course calling off the meeting was the correct decision.

no nails niall

WHIP IT! wrote: »

Nice to see all the lads focusing on the most imporant thing here - their 20pence Lucky 15... not the owner, trainer, lad/lass or, certainly not the poor f*ckin horse himself - don't be silly :rolleyes:

The day a punter sheds a tear for anything but their 20pense in this mugs game will be a dark time.

Must have been a bad batch of epo or whatever they give these things.

This electric shock speculation is waffle.

Bruthal

Id say the electric shock idea is likely myself. Horses and cattle are very sensitive to it with their good connection to the ground and distance between front and back legs.

EGAR

It was reported on Clare FM that 3 people leading the horses got shocks off them. 4 horses acted up in the paddock two of which died.

Nulty

four (5? Money Trix?) dead horses. Worst days racing I've witnessed. A horror show.

BTW whip it, the guy/girl never said they didn't care about the horse trainer etc. No need to go on a guilt/thanks whoring crusade. No offence to you personally, you understand.

Get off your high horse..... (Pffff :pac:)

mdwexford

Just saw it, very strange carry on.

UrbanSea

Nulty did you hear any news about Money Trix?

RichieLawlor

UrbanSea wrote: »

Nulty did you hear any news about Money Trix?

Broke a leg, was put down also Glencove Marina collapsed and died just after the race.

Horrible stuff

Nulty

Was he put down in the end? They took him off in a horse ambulance, thats the laast I heard. Owners were very keen to try to save the horse.

UrbanSea

Christ what a bloodbath.

Dtoffee

Seems very strange as the course manager said there has been no wires in that area for over 30 years ........ cant help wondering if it was some sort of attempted betting coup that went wrong.

There has been evidence of lasers being shone on horses as they jump fences and some sort of tazering (?) would not be unimaginable. Surely if there were live wires under the parade ring then the stable boys/jockeys/owners all would have been at risk ..... horses steel shoes should spark if they hit a live electric cable.

UrbanSea

He didn't say that it wasn't there,he said the chord would have been dormant.
I can't imagine it would be a betting coup which would leave so many horses at risk of death.
The reason it affected horses and not humans to such an extent was to do with the distancing of hooves and feet and their sensivities (Horses have a lot of nerves in their hooves)

Nulty

• Nicky Richards confirms Money Trix had to be destroyed
• MD of Newbury confirms cable found under paddock

mdwexford

Dtoffee wrote: »

Seems very strange as the course manager said there has been no wires in that area for over 30 years ........ cant help wondering if it was some sort of attempted betting coup that went wrong.

There has been evidence of lasers being shone on horses as they jump fences and some sort of tazering (?) would not be unimaginable. Surely if there were live wires under the parade ring then the stable boys/jockeys/owners all would have been at risk ..... horses steel shoes should spark if they hit a live electric cable.

Said on channel 4 it takes 1/6 the amount of electricity to kill a horse than it does to kill a human so they would be a lot more susceptible to it.

sudzs

mdwexford wrote: »

Just saw it, very strange carry on.

Was it shown live on tv?? I missed it, thankfully.

Said on channel 4 it takes 1/6 the amount of electricity to kill a horse than it does to kill a human so they would be a lot more susceptible to it.

And the steel plates wouldn't exactly insulate them.

I hate when this sort of thing happens in racing.

ctrl-alt-delete

WHIP IT! wrote: »

Nice to see all the lads focusing on the most imporant thing here - their 20pence Lucky 15... not the owner, trainer, lad/lass or, certainly not the poor f*ckin horse himself - don't be silly :rolleyes:

Yet your way of paying your respects is coming into the thread and taking the all high and mighty ground,

Get over yourself will you, I suppose you are awaiting news of the funeral arrangements so you can pay your respects,

And how very presumptious of you with the 20 pence bit, belittling people once again.

Bruthal

mdwexford wrote: »

Said on channel 4 it takes 1/6 the amount of electricity to kill a horse than it does to kill a human so they would be a lot more susceptible to it.

It probably takes the same amount of current through a horse to kill them from an actual electric shock as us, but if its a cable fault in the ground, they are going to be making a very good connection to the ground because they are standing direct on it, and with steel horse shoes and solidly in contact with the ground with four legs. People are standing in shoes with no real contact with the ground. A potential difference occurs along the ground around a cable fault if indeed thats what it was here, so the further apart the points of contact the larger the voltage(potential) difference, so horses or cattle are very subseptible to this. Also the actual electric shock is not the only danger to a horse, they panic or fall and this presents more dangers.

markc1184

Piece in one of today's papers saying an exposed cable was found underneath the rubber matting around the paddock. Shocking thing to happen, first thoughts when I heard it myself yesterday that it could have been done deliberately but looks like it's just an unfortunate accident at the minute.

Funfair

would they now be classed as 2 dead certs









Ok I'll get my coat

Nulty

That must have been funnier in your head

RoundyMooney

robbie7730 wrote: »

Would they?

As you no doubt know, no.

If this was an MV cable, their protection must have been fairly rudimentary.

mdwexford

robbie7730 wrote: »

It probably takes the same amount of current through a horse to kill them from an actual electric shock as us, but if its a cable fault in the ground, they are going to be making a very good connection to the ground because they are standing direct on it, and with steel horse shoes and solidly in contact with the ground with four legs. People are standing in shoes with no real contact with the ground. A potential difference occurs along the ground around a cable fault if indeed thats what it was here, so the further apart the points of contact the larger the voltage(potential) difference, so horses or cattle are very subseptible to this. Also the actual electric shock is not the only danger to a horse, they panic or fall and this presents more dangers.

I read they react a lot more than humans to electric fences as well though.

Bruthal

mdwexford wrote: »

I read they react a lot more than humans to electric fences as well though.

Yes because an electric fence is a voltage generated by a winding or electronically and one pole is connected to the fence wire and the other to the ground via earth rods. Anyone touching the wire completes the circuit from the wire to the ground. I think they connect the voltage to the fence every second or so rather than being constantly on.

A person is usually in thier shoes or boots and they will still receive a decent shock because the fence energiser gives out a fairly high voltage.
But for the horses they are connected very well to the ground with 4 feet so they will receive a bigger jolt than a person wearing boots or shoes and also a person is much lighter and so are not in contact with the ground near as well as a horse.

Go up to a fence and touch it, then try it bare foot with feet in a nice wet mucky spot, not that i will be trying it myself:)

Horses also are a lot more likely to be spooked or panic as well even with a small shock. Where as you will know whats after happening.

Bruthal

RoundyMooney wrote: »

As you no doubt know, no.

If this was an MV cable, their protection must have been fairly rudimentary.

Indeed.

convert

Funfair wrote: »

would they now be classed as 2 dead certs









Ok I'll get my coat

This is the horse racing forum, not after hours. Comments like that aren't welcome.

ppink

I think it is a very sad reflection on supposed horse lovers to allow that race to go ahead. The only trainer to pull his horse was Nicky Henderson from what I read. What does it take for the other and indeed the organisers to worry about the horses health.
2 dead horses in the paddock and the lads leading claiming electric shocks and the race still run

hask1965

it was really sad the pore horses there owners must allso be in a state

Bluetonic

ppink wrote: »

What does it take for the other and indeed the organisers to worry about the horses health.

All the horses were checked out before the start of the race by a vet and were passed as sound.

I don't know what else they could have done given that at the time they did not know the full extent of what happened.

I think it shows a lack of understand that you think that the other trainers etc.., do and did not worry about their animals welfare. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Nicky Henderson also had a runner in the race.

This was an unprecedented event and your criticism is wrong in my opinion.

From a personal point of view I don't think I've ever seen a 2m+ race so stretched out, just goes to show how badly they were affected. http://www.irishracing.com/v5rhfinfo?prc=028&prd=201102121320

ppink

2 horses died in the parade ring and a lot of the handlers are reported to have felt the electric charge from the horses. I dont know how much more evidence is required that something major happened in that ring.

Even on the radio yesterday they spoke about the horses that ran having burn marks around their mouths after the bits were removed. no doubt the full truth will out in time but if I had a horse in that parade ring their is no way it would have run after that.

premierstone

ppink wrote: »

2 horses died in the parade ring and a lot of the handlers are reported to have felt the electric charge from the horses. I dont know how much more evidence is required that something major happened in that ring.

Even on the radio yesterday they spoke about the horses that ran having burn marks around their mouths after the bits were removed. no doubt the full truth will out in time but if I had a horse in that parade ring their is no way it would have run after that.

The quote in bold has been categorically denied by every one of the trainers who had horse in the race.

Bruthal

premierstone wrote: »

The quote in bold has been categorically denied by every one of the trainers who had horse in the race.

Yea and a voltage of the magnitude to cause that in a horses mouth and not severely affect people around them would not be likely.

Its easy after the event and all the media speculation for people to say what they would or would not have done with regard to continuing the race.

s-cogan

Yea and a voltage of the magnitude to cause that in a horses mouth and not severely affect people around them would not be likely.

as was already mentioned, the shock needed to kill a human is 6 times the force needed to kill a horse, but what i cant understand is how the rubber matting in the parade ring didnt insulate any shock that may have occurred??

Bruthal

s-cogan wrote: »

as was already mentioned, the shock needed to kill a human is 6 times the force needed to kill a horse, but what i cant understand is how the rubber matting in the parade ring didnt insulate any shock that may have occurred??

I would be sceiptical about the 6 times the shock needed to kill a person than a horse though. It takes about 30 to 50 mili-amps flowing through the body which is 0.03 to 0.05 amps (1/20th of an amp) to be dangerous to a person, i cant see 5 mili-amps killing a horse by electrocution. A lower current may cause them to panic and inflict serious injury that way as they are easily traumatised compared to a person.

But a voltage present in the earth would be much more serious to a horse because of their solid contact with the ground with steel shoes, and distance between front legs and back ones because the voltage potential will vary along the ground so the further apart any points of contact the more voltage will be encountered, more voltage at the different contact points means more current through the item in contact with the 2 or more points.

With the rubber mat thing, the horses would have to be standing completely on the mat to prevent contact with the ground. But they were on the grass in the area it happened. Once a cable with a fault has a live part in contact with the earth close to the affected area, a rubber mat sitting on the ground will do nothing, unless the horse is actually completely on the mat.

Bruthal

s-cogan wrote: »

as was already mentioned, the shock needed to kill a human is 6 times the force needed to kill a horse,

Anyway, whatever current level it takes to kill a horse directly from electrocution, it would take a very high voltage to cause burns in the mouth caused by the steel bit i would assume the reports were getting at.

Thats lightning strike territory, or high tension cable type voltage which would of been severe for anyone or any horse within the vacinity.

A normal cable of the type probably at fault here would be a 400 volt 3 phase cable or a single phase 230v one, either of which has a fault voltage to earth being 230 volts, where as the lowest voltage high tension cable is around 10 or 11 thousand volts. (10kv).

A 230v shock through a horses feet would be unlikely to cause burns at the mouth.