Kildare North , Emmet Stagg set to top the poll

lods

I've always been uneasy with the way Stagg never explained what he was doing in 1994. No other country would tolerate this behavior. I'd have more respect for him if he was honest about his sexuality.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/irish-minister-set-to-survive-scandal-1427878.html]

AN IRISH government minister found by police with a homosexual man in his parked car in an area of a Dublin park frequented by male prostitutes yesterday seemed likely to retain his post.

Seth Brundle

Given everything that has happened in this country where politicians appear to have bailed out their friends to the tune of billions, we've bailed out the catholic church for protecting their rapist members, we've bailed out the incompetent people who have messed up this country with regard to the finances, health service, etc. and you are concerned that Emmet might like some guy on guy action?

In fairness, (being a constituient) I'd be more concerned that he is a traditional parish pump politician!

Trampas

Irish politics is different than most countries

A ex UK MP is jailed for 12 months for fiddling expenses worth around £14,000. Then you look at Ivor Callely.

flash1080

With all due respect, in the most unparliamentarily language, f*ck you Deputy Stagg! F*ck you!

lods

kbannon wrote: »

Given everything that has happened in this country where politicians appear to have bailed out their friends to the tune of billions, we've bailed out the catholic church for protecting their rapist members, we've bailed out the incompetent people who have messed up this country with regard to the finances, health service, etc. and you are concerned that Emmet might like some guy on guy action?

In fairness, (being a constituient) I'd be more concerned that he is a traditional parish pump politician!

He was pumping something and it wasn't the parish pump.;)

whiteonion

lods wrote: »

I've always been uneasy with the way Stagg never explained what he was doing in 1994. No other country would tolerate this behavior. I'd have more respect for him if he was honest about his sexuality.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/irish-minister-set-to-survive-scandal-1427878.html]

AN IRISH government minister found by police with a homosexual man in his parked car in an area of a Dublin park frequented by male prostitutes yesterday seemed likely to retain his post.

Could you please explain to us why his sexual orientation is any of your business?

COUCH WARRIOR

flash1080 wrote: »

With all due respect, in the most unparliamentarily language, f*ck you Deputy Stagg! F*ck you!

He'd prob. like that :pac:

takun

TBH what consenting adults get up to in their own time is not of any concern to me, it's a personal matter and I don't see how it has anything to do with their politics.

The most common reason put forward for running politicians out of town for any minor sexual indiscretion is that it leaves them open to blackmail. But that's only true if on being found out they will be run out of town, so it's a kind of a circular argument.

I wonder though about the motives behind bringing up something that happened 16 years ago in the middle of an election? It's not like nobody knows about it or that he has not been re-elected several times since by an electorate fully aware of it?

deise blue

Are we really that prurient about a person's sexuality ?

Perhaps we should be concentrating more on his political performance and his Party's policies ?

Anyway if I remember correctly he was never arrested nor where charges ever brought.

Liam Byrne

deise blue wrote: »

Are we really that prurient about a person's sexuality ?

Couldn't care less about that, but there is the question of whether of not he gave two fingers to the law of the land.

deise blue wrote: »

Anyway if I remember correctly he was never arrested nor where charges ever brought.

The same could be said about Haughey, Ahern and O'Dea.

LookBehindYou

The Stagg in the Park. Dirty pervert.

deise blue

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Couldn't care less about that, but there is the question of whether of not he gave two fingers to the law of the land.



The same could be said about Haughey, Ahern and O'Dea.

A question that has been answered - no Garda arrest or prosecution.

If you have evidence to the contrary that suggests that such action was incorrect , after 16 years , then I suggest your next step is to contact the Garda Ombudsman.

Dinner

Liam Byrne wrote: »

The same could be said about Haughey, Ahern and O'Dea.

Except it could be argued that the actions of many other politicians, like those above, had a negative effect on the country. Whereas Emmet Stagg being caught in the park didnt line the pockets of bankers or whatever.

Personally, a politician being with a prostitute (or not, as the case may be) is fairly low down on my list of important issues for this election.

lods

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Couldn't care less about that, but there is the question of whether of not he gave two fingers to the law of the land.



The same could be said about Haughey, Ahern and O'Dea.

It's a question of honesty . No issue if he's gay . But if he was paying for sex with a make prostitute there's a question of exploitation , in the same way female prostitution isn't a victimless crime . I don't go to benburb street to meet my girlfriend . If he's going to be a potential minister would he be fit to be minister for justice Or equality? I think it's relevant now because labour will probably form part of the next government . if he can't be honest about his sexuality can he be trusted in government ?

alejandro1977

whiteonion wrote: »

Could you please explain to us why his sexual orientation is any of your business?

Prostitution is illegal. Also dangerous, unhealthy and disgusting.

Many of the male prostitutes are underage and victims of sexual abuse or are drug addicts. For example Colm O'Gorman has spoken about his time as a Rentboy.

Bucklesman

alejandro1977 wrote: »

Prostitution is illegal. Also dangerous, unhealthy and disgusting.

Many of the male prostitutes are underage and victims of sexual abuse or are drug addicts. For example Colm O'Gorman has spoken about his time as a Rentboy.

On the other hand...

The Independent wrote:

Public anger focused on the conduct of the police officer who leaked details of the case involving Emmet Stagg, the junior environment minister, to the press when it was clear no crime was committed. Pat Cox, the deputy leader of the Progressive Democrats, called on police authorities to find out who was responsible.

Nobody cared in 1994. Why the hell would it be an issue seventeen years down the line?

lods

Bucklesman wrote: »

On the other hand...



Nobody cared in 1994. Why the hell would it be an issue seventeen years down the line?

Lot of things were hushed up and buried during those years . Look at the revelations on child sexual abuse . Would a politician get away with such behavior today . There's a lot more intolerance to exploitation and abuse by people in power now. Interesting to note at the time there was more anger towards the person that leaked the story rather than Stagg

mikemac

lods wrote: »

I've always been uneasy with the way Stagg never explained what he was doing in 1994. No other country would tolerate this behavior. I'd have more respect for him if he was honest about his sexuality.

Nobody cares and nobody cared in 1994
Our former Taoiseach lived with another women while still married and nobody cared either, it was his own private business

It's their personal life. Someone raised the possibly of blackmail, a fair comment but have we ever seen an example.

What goes on between two consenting adults isn't the top priority of voters. Emmett Stagg has a lot of other faults, he will get returned to the Dáil by Kildare North though

whiteonion

alejandro1977 wrote: »

Prostitution is illegal. Also dangerous, unhealthy and disgusting.

Many of the male prostitutes are underage and victims of sexual abuse or are drug addicts. For example Colm O'Gorman has spoken about his time as a Rentboy.

It's normal for men to sleep with prostitutes at some point in their lives, so what if Emmet Stagg did so? It's not our business.

alejandro1977

feelingstressed wrote: »

Nobody cares and nobody cared in 1994
Our former Taoiseach lived with another women while still married and nobody cared either, it was his own private business

Cohabiting is legal.

Prostitution is not.

The Gardai have a poor record of prosecuting sexual crimes in this country. That doesn't excuse the offenses.

mikemac

alejandro1977 wrote: »

Cohabiting is legal.

True, I was more aiming at people who might judge that morally.
Which didn't happen and which says a lot for a modern outlook in Ireland

In another decade in Ireland they would have been condemed, to stray into history Charles Stewart Parnell was ruined over it
I've gone offtopic

takun

The notion that politicians should have private lives that conform to some arbitrary standard of moral rectitude is ridiculous. I honestly don't care and don't want to know about who they have sex with, why or when provided everyone involved in a consenting adult.

If they show up and do the job they were elected to do honestly and to the best of their ability that's all we've voted for, and it would be a refreshing change in many cases. After that their lives are their own to live whatever way they like and are of zero interest to me.

bluesteel

feelingstressed wrote: »

True, I was more aiming at people who might judge that morally.
Which didn't happen and which says a lot for a modern outlook in Ireland

In another decade in Ireland they would have been condemed, to stray into history Charles Stewart Parnell was ruined over it
I've gone offtopic

you should read Fergus Finlay's book - 'Snakes and Ladders'.

He tells the story of rumours being spread about one of Stagg's (internal Labour) rivals which were pretty similar to the situation E Stagg found himself. Finlay makes it clear he believes Stagg himself spread the rumours.

mikemac

bluesteel wrote: »

He tells the story of rumours being spread about one of Stagg's (internal Labour) rivals which were pretty similar to the situation E Stagg found himself. Finlay makes it clear he believes Stagg himself spread the rumours.

Posted it before here on boards but if you're a politician, you're worst enemy and biggest rival isn't in another party, it's usually in your own party. :eek:

rlogue

A shoddy and disgusting thread started only by the OP to make a political point.

Kenism

Whether he's gay, straight or bi-curious its not an issue. Thats an issue for his family to worry about. Whether he broke the law in '94 thats an issue for the Gardaí to worry about. His personal and party politics is something I am concerned with. I believe he will top the poll closely followed by Durkan. If in the likely event of a FF/Lab government I believe Stagg will be in line for a ministerial position or at worse a junior minister.

This is the first time that Labour are running a second candidate with Stagg in North Kildare. It was feared in the past they wouldnt get one in if they ran two. This time round I think they are in a strong position to get two in.

lods

whiteonion wrote: »

It's normal for men to sleep with prostitutes at some point in their lives, so what if Emmet Stagg did so? It's not our business.

Normal ?? Not being a prude , but hardly normal for all men to sleep with prostitutes .

df1985

http://www.kildare.ie/community/CatherineMurphy/2011/02/catherine_murphy_condemns_remo.html

more concerned that his cronies are doing that.....dirty tactics.


EDIT: for the record not a catherine murphy supporter or affiliated with any party, not sure who ill be voting for yet. Kildare North's standard of candidates are failry poor in my opinion in general.

mikemac

Independent candidate for Kildare North, Councillor Catherine Murphy, has condemned the tearing down of her posters in Straffan by supporters of Labour party TD Emmet Stagg.

It's a low tactic no matter who does it.
As since candidates can get fined for not taking down posters or dumping posters it's even lower. The party or if independent, the candidate has to pay the fine

takun

TBH if there is anything I care less about than the sex lives of politicians it's their petty squabbles. It was a shi*tty thing to do, but then who ever said politics was a polite tea party? Get over it. Man (or woman) up and move on to issue people actually care about.

And that's a sort of sickeningly pious press release full of clichés.

Bucklesman

lods wrote: »

Normal ?? Not being a prude , but hardly normal for all men to sleep with prostitutes .

But it allegedly happened seventeen years ago, and the man was never charged.

To put this into perspective for people who think the nineties happened last week, I was three at the time and this will be the first general election I get to vote in. An entire generation of voters has come of age since this scandal. Get over it.

rlogue wrote:

A shoddy and disgusting thread started only by the OP to make a political point.

It's nothing more than a ham-fisted attempt at a smear. If this is all Stagg's opponents have...

hotmail.com

lods wrote: »

Normal ?? Not being a prude , but hardly normal for all men to sleep with prostitutes .

Have you any evidence that he was involved with a prostitute before you came on here to blacken his character.

He was NOT having it off with a prostitute, he was caught with another adult male in a similar position to him (his sexuality was a secret). It was a sign of Irish society that he was forced to resort to secretive meets to satisfy his healthy sexual appetite. Thankfully the younger generation don't see the need to hide their sexuality and these secretive meets will begin to die out.

I find it bizarre that the mods have not closed this thread as the suggestion of illegal behavious has been mentioned without any evidence or foundation....instead let's call it what it is - a homophobic bashing of a man that just wanted to keep his sexuality secret because of the widespread prejudice there is in the country about it.

Shame on the OP for bringing up such a trivial matter. You really need to get a life and stop picking on an old man that happens to be gay. So what.

lods

rlogue wrote: »

A shoddy and disgusting thread started only by the OP to make a political point.

Thats you opinion . Is there something untrue .

Bucklesman

lods wrote: »

Thats you opinion . Is there something untrue .

Nobody is questioning the fact that Emmet Stagg, then Minister for the Environment, was found in a car with a young man in an area used by male prostitutes in early 1994. It was a scandal at the time, and rightly so.

We are questioning why you are choosing to dig up a scandal nearly two decades old.

lods

Bucklesman wrote: »

Nobody is questioning the fact that Emmet Stagg, then Minister for the Environment, was found in a car with a young man in an area used by male prostitutes in early 1994. It was a scandal at the time, and rightly so.

We are questioning why you are choosing to dig up a scandal nearly two decades old.

On a general point I hate politicians that re invent themselves as something they are not or try distance themselves from the past . All parties are doing it . Was catherine Murphy not in the labour party at one stage , i thought I read something about that . Lowery, Bertie etc have cast themselves as victims . Parties refusing to go into government with Sinn Fein , but expecting the DUP to work with them . Labour are made up of mostly democratic left politicians that came from Sinn Fein and the official IRA

PomBear

It's funny today is the anniversary of his brother.


His attitude over the burial (the IRA were in the wrong too) were disgusting and the homosexual allegations are main resons why I dislike him

selfobsessed

PomBear wrote: »

It's funny today is the anniversary of his brother.


His attitude over the burial (the IRA were in the wrong too) were disgusting and the homosexual allegations are main resons why I dislike him

How is this relevant to GE 2011??? SHAME on you with your disgusting homophobic attitude. It is entirely Deputy Stagg's OWN business what he does in his spare time. This thread so be locked. Shame on the OP too :rolleyes:

lods

selfobsessed wrote: »

How is this relevant to GE 2011??? SHAME on you with your disgusting homophobic attitude. It is entirely Deputy Stagg's OWN business what he does in his spare time. This thread so be locked. Shame on the OP too :rolleyes:

I never had an issue with his sexuality . I don't know if he's a homosexual or not . I questioned his judgement and his suitability for certain offices, based on that . I think they are legitimate concerns . If homophobics make rediculious points that's their issues.

PomBear

selfobsessed wrote: »

How is this relevant to GE 2011??? SHAME on you with your disgusting homophobic attitude. It is entirely Deputy Stagg's OWN business what he does in his spare time. This thread so be locked. Shame on the OP too :rolleyes:

I'm not homophobic, I think his attitude is homophobic actually. He's a member of the Labour Party which will be likely to draft a civil partnership bill/referendum in the next Government (in their manifesto). I would prefer he didn't have input on it unless he comes clean. That's why I think it's relevant to GE11

takun

PomBear wrote: »

I'm not homophobic, I think his attitude is homophobic actually. He's a member of the Labour Party which will be likely to draft a civil partnership bill/referendum in the next Government (in their manifesto). I would prefer he didn't have input on it unless he comes clean. That's why I think it's relevant to GE11

You feel qualified to make a judgement on his attitudes to something based on an incident dragged up form almost 20 years ago? And throw into the pot an issue around a burial which took place almost 35 years ago?

Please just stop now.

PomBear

takun wrote: »

You feel qualified to make a judgement on his attitudes to something based on an incident dragged up form almost 20 years ago? And throw into the pot an issue around a burial which took place almost 35 years ago?

Please just stop now.

Yes I do as there's nothing to suggest his attitudes have been changed or he thinks otherwise.


Whether it was last year or 50 years ago, if he hasn't dramatically changed his outlook, I couldn't really care much for him.

So yes I feel qualified as an Irish citizen worrying about who will be in the next Government.

Seth Brundle

PomBear wrote: »

I'm not homophobic, I think his attitude is homophobic actually. He's a member of the Labour Party which will be likely to draft a civil partnership bill/referendum in the next Government (in their manifesto). I would prefer he didn't have input on it unless he comes clean. That's why I think it's relevant to GE11

I actually don't understand this logic. Please explain.
Are you suggesting that because of a non issue almost 20 years ago, yiou think that he cannot provide an impartial view?

Wolfe Tone

I just think what he did with regards to his heroic brothers burial was sick and horrible, I have no respect for the man.

Lauder

I'm sure it is not the only poll he has topped.

lods

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I just think what he did with regards to his heroic brothers burial was sick and horrible, I have no respect for the man.

Frank Stagg's burial caused considerable controversy in Ireland, with republicans and two of his brothers seeking to have Stagg buried in the republican plot in Ballina as was the wish of Frank Stagg, while his widow, his brother Emmet Stagg and the Irish government wished to have him buried in the family plot in the same cemetery and to avoid republican involvement in the funeral.[5] As the republicans waited at Dublin Airport for the body, the Irish Government ordered the flight to be diverted to Shannon Airport.

It was here that his body was brought to Ballina and buried near the family plot. In order to prevent the body being disinterred and reburied by republicans in accordance to the wishes of the dead man, the grave was covered with concrete. In November 1976, a group of republicans tunnelled under the concrete to recover the coffin under cover of darkness and reburied it in the republican plot.

Was obviously a difficult tine for family . Not too sure I'd have issues with him siding with the wife , as long as it was done for the right reasons .

Wolfe Tone

lods wrote: »

Was obviously a difficult tine for family . Not too sure I'd have issues with him siding with the wife , as long as it was done for the right reasons .

So you don't respect a mans wishes about how and where he wants to be buried?

Thankfully they reburied his body.

NSNO

Thought I'd just point out that prostitution isn't illegal in Ireland....

lods

NSNO wrote: »

Thought I'd just point out that prostitution isn't illegal in Ireland....

Prostitution itself is not an offence under Irish law. However, the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act of 1993 prohibits soliciting or importuning another person in a street or public place for the purpose of prostitution (This offence applies to prostitute and client.). It also prohibits loitering for the purpose of prostitution, organizing prostitution by controlling or directing the activities of a person in prostitution, coercing one to practice prostitution for gain, living on earnings of the prostitution of another person, and keeping a brothel or other premises for the purpose of prostitution. Advertising brothels and prostitution is prohibited by the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act of 1994. 18 is the minimum legal age for a prostitute in Ireland (Child prostitution Legislation exists to protect persons under this age.). The Criminal Law (Trafficking in Persons and Sexual Offences) Bill 2006 recently came into force making trafficking in persons for the purpose of their sexual exploitation a specific offence, though previous legislation already covered much of this area.[4][5]

telekon

lods wrote: »

I've always been uneasy with the way Stagg never explained what he was doing in 1994. No other country would tolerate this behavior. I'd have more respect for him if he was honest about his sexuality.

How are things back in the 19th century?? FFS like... :rolleyes:

lods

telekon wrote: »

How are things back in the 19th century?? FFS like... :rolleyes:

Hmmm . What exact are you getting at . I've no issue with him being gay . I'll vote for David Norris in the presidential election . He
Has been openly gay and has worked hard for gay rights . The Stagg incident is different

telekon

lods wrote: »

Hmmm . What exact are you getting at . I've no issue with him being gay . I'll vote for David Norris in the presidential election . He
Has been openly gay and has worked hard for gay rights . The Stagg incident is different

....because it was solicited gay sex. if it was with a female prostitute, it would have been long forgotten.