Change Your Brake Fluid

-Chris-

Do you regularly have your brake fluid changed?

Do you know why it needs to be done?

Most manufacturers recommend the fluid is changed every two years, how many people actually obey this?

Matt Simis

Its down the line of 4year coolant flushes, no body does it unless they have to. Not that I agree with that, but every 2years is seemingly way OTT.

Henry Ford III

I do it on the old car every 3 years or so. DIY using an Easybleed gadget. Handy job. Takes about 20 mins.

p.s. Brake fluid absorbs water and therefore deteriorates over time.

CiniO

I changed my brake fluid last month.
Car is 03, and I doubt it was changed ever before. I own the car only since last year.
I can't feel the difference, but I'm sure that on previous fluid I had to stop from 200km/h to 0, there could have beed serious problems.

Gary ITR

I got mine done before All The Way Round last year, the lads in the garage sais they never get people asking for fluid changes, it's always something they have to suggest

I've never done it or had it done, admittedly I don't keep cars too long. Dad has a 1999 Hyundai Accent from new, it's on the original fluid. However seems as it is cheap enough to do I reckon the next time I need pads I'll have the fluid changed too

The fluid in my ZT is there since 25000 miles in 2004, 65000 miles or 7 years ago.

Cheers for starting the thread too and for raising awareness.

route66

I suppose the main problem with not changing it are that brake fluid absorbs water resulting in a lower boiling point. This will not be generally noticable unless you are pushing the brakes: say driving down a hill with a trailer attached. The heat generated will pass through the pads and disks, and, ultimately into the fluid; a steep enough hill, a heavy enough trailer and the fluid will start to boil and this will result in a brake pedal which will feel as if it's detached!

Oh, and I've never had it replaced on any car I've owned, one which was 10 years old :eek:

Tefral

I didnt bleed out all mine but I bled out a good bit on all four corners after my last track day. I cant see why you'd be changing it every 2 years unless you had the lid off or somthing. I know its hydroscopic n all but 2 years is ott.

galwaytt

...interesting thread.........like many, I'm inclined to think it's OTT. However, to do it is not actually that big a deal, and if it was scheduled just to coincide with another wheels-off job (pads, tyres, etc), wouldn't be a big deal.

Many years ago I attended a Tech Daze (sic) in the US, on the (then) new electronic servo powered brakes on BMW R1150 series of bikes......(am I right in thinking Merc had a similar system fitted to their cars for a while........ ??)......anyhoo.........in those, there are two separate hydraulic circuits, with different fluid replacement schedules on each. One is every 2nd year, one is every year (from memory....)

One is a 'master circuit', from the handlerbar lever to the ABS pump, and other is a 'slave' circuit, going from the ABS unit to the wheel calipers. Both circuit's are hydraulically separate.

The brake master cylinder on the handlebar for instance, which is operated by your hand - the fluid in that circuit doesn't go to the wheels/calipers at all. The handlebar circuit only goes as far as the ABS unit, under the petrol tank.

What happens is that, when you pull the brake lever, the pressure in the 'master' circuit is measured by a transducer (sensor). This sensor signal is used to activate ABS pumps to create pressure in the 2nd, slave, circuit, and so activate the calipers......by doing this they can 'leverage' great braking pressures, and great braking, from modest lever pressures without resorting to big master cylinders or long awkward levers. To bleed the damn system involves (iirc..) 6 bleed nipples under the tank......and two more on each caliper. It involves special system filling tools and special spacers to put in the calipers (to provide suitable back pressure). Mind you, it's actually, very easy - on the wheel (slave) circuit, you just fill it, pull the lever, and the ABS pumps drive the fluid to the calipers under great pressure. None of this 'pump/hold/pump/hold' lark !:p

Most bike shops won't touch them.

Not surprisingly, the electronics are key, and are not unknown to give trouble, with a new ABS unit being a not-unknown failure. At 2k/each, that's not to be sneezed at, and it wouldn't take much to actually write a bike off, value wise.........

The point of all this....story......is that the culprit for the ABS unit failure is thought to be - but not definitively proven to be - moisture. Some think this is caused by not changing the fluid(s) to schedule.......

Another aspect is this: at the Tech Daze, one of the guys was changing the fluid on his R1100RT, which had 'conventional' brakes, and this was the cleanest, shiniest bike I'd ever seen - I couldn't understand why he bothered, tbh. He connected up a tube and container, and we slowly pumped out the rear brake fluid. The first xx cc's of fluid were spotless, and I remarked to him on it. "Ah, just you wait and see..." said the (nice) man, and then, lo and behold, what I can only describe as jet black fluid !!:eek:

As he pointed out, that most people 'change' their fluid and basically use a small bottle or so. He used a lot more - the reason for the fluid being black is that this was the body of fluid contained in the rubber flexible pipe, which spent it's whole life just shuffling back and forward's a few mm - it didn't get nice shiney stuff from the master cylinder all the time, and the black was degradation of the brake hose rubber.......:eek:

This, remember, was in Atlanta, Georgia - which is a scorching hot State. Can you imagine what our water-laden atmosphere must do to it......??

So endeth the Lesson

Have my current car (2001) for 4 years and its never been changed in that time, the previous owners receipts don't indicate its was done by him either but I think I saw it on one of the main dealer receipts from another previous owner. Probably 6 years anyway since its been done. Brakes are fine though.

Don't think many people bother with it especially people who do their own servicing.

Merch

cronin_j wrote: »

I didnt bleed out all mine but I bled out a good bit on all four corners after my last track day. I cant see why you'd be changing it every 2 years unless you had the lid off or somthing. I know its hydroscopic n all but 2 years is ott.

I wonder does someone have a link to where this 2 year rule has a basis?
personally I agree it needs to be changed and err on the side of caution so whenever I have changed the pads, I bled out a good bit of fluid, so I'd say that has been maybe been every two years.

-Chris-

After reading galwaytt's post, I'm wondering what the fluid is like in the cars here that have had many years between changes.

Anybody curious enough to change their fluid and let us know the result?

galwaytt

-Chris- wrote: »

After reading galwaytt's post, I'm wondering what the fluid is like in the cars here that have had many years between changes.

Anybody curious enough to change their fluid and let us know the result?

I have one that hasn't been done in years..............due shortly ........I'll let you know........!

Owen

When I ditched the single piston 220mm setup on the JCW and opted for the 6 piston 320mm Wilwood kit, I changed the brakelines too to stainless steel braided hoses. Flushed the whole system too. That was in 08 ish, and it's a 05 car with 30k miles on it. The stuff coming out was fairly manky TBH.

I don't do it as often as I should. I used to do it on my bikes very regularly, but in the cars, I'm a lazy bastard. I'm sure the 75 could do with a flush.

Nissan doctor

The reason brake fluid changes are rarely asked for is, as I have said many times on here, in general, Irish people have no interest in car maintenance and most will never have looked at the service schedule that came with their car.

Brake fluid should be changed every 2 years according to all manufacturers and motoring bodies. Any decent garage should have a means of testing the condition of brake fluid.

When we are servicing/inspecting cars, we will test the fluid and check the service book with the car(if there is one). If the fluid fails the test, or there is no evidence of the fluid having been changed before then we recommend it and very rarely to people refuse. Its very cheap to change and is such a safety critical component. I would estimate that 50% of the cars I test read more then 5% h20 in the fluid which lowers the boiling point to almost 100 degrees. That temperature could easily be reached in every day driving conditions and lead to very poor braking performance.

The latest industry guidelines on vehicle maintenance have changed to specify that when changing brake pads, the bleed nipple should be opened when winding back the caliper piston so as remove a certain amount of the old fluid every time the pads are changed.

Nonoperational

Got my coolant and brake fluid changed when I got the golf last June. Was the first car I ever even considered changing the brake fluid in. If I still have the Car in 2 years I'll do it again.

VolvoMan

Most of the work on my car I do myself and my mechanical ability doesn't really stretch past changing the oil, filter and air filter.

Dilbert75

VolvoMan wrote: »

Most of the work on my car I do myself and my mechanical ability doesn't really stretch past changing the oil, filter and air filter.

Changing brake fluid is almost as easy. Get a Gunsons Easibleed - probably about €30 - and its a doddle.

mickob16

gpf101 wrote: »

Got my coolant and brake fluid changed when I got the golf last June. Was the first car I ever even considered changing the brake fluid in. If I still have the Car in 2 years I'll do it again.

Just curious as to how much you paid.....ive been quoted €150 which sounds like daylight robbery.Ok its from a main dealer and as car is under warranty am i tied to them????

Nissan doctor

Are people who are bleeding their own brakes aware of the basics such as bleed from the furthest caliper from the master cylinder first, make sure the master cylinder itself doesn't run empty etc.


There are also some modern cars, mostly vags and mercs fitted with the latest esp systems that you can not bleed manually, you need the correct software to activate the esp module to automatically bleed the brakes.

Nissan doctor

mickob16 wrote: »

Just curious as to how much you paid.....ive been quoted €150 which sounds like daylight robbery.Ok its from a main dealer and as car is under warranty am i tied to them????

For what?? Just a brake fluid change or coolant and brake fluid? Either way I wouldn't pay that much...

Voodoomelon

I've done mine twice in the last 3 years. Even with a year inbetween bleeds, the fluid had completely changed colour. Whether this indicates degradation I don't know, I do it every 2 years now.

slimjimmc

Done mine last year, probably it's first bleed in 5 years. There was a noticeable difference in colour but not as much as I expected. Didn't feel any different on the pedal afterwards

I'm surprised more manufacturers don't use something like Citroen's LHM fluid, it's non-hygroscopic so no chance of corrosion, no boiling so less brake fade, withstands higher pressures than DOT4, and is non-corrosive to paintwork. Perhaps it's too expensive?

SpannerMonkey

i do change mine at least every 2 years , but im anal and am obsessed with having my car perfect at all times

jayok

Hmmm, I've had the brake fluid changed on the one of our cars inline with the service interval (2 years)

But on the other one (different make), when I asked to the dealer, does it need to be changed, I was advised that they test the level of absorbed water in the brake fluid using a hydrometer (or something that sounds like that) and if it was below the thresholds, it wouldn't be changed - does this sound right?

Anyway, the fluid was eventually changed in the 2nd car as a caliper was replaced and the whole system flushed, just curious about this hydrometer thingy.

rex-x

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Are people who are bleeding their own brakes aware of the basics such as bleed from the furthest caliper from the master cylinder first, make sure the master cylinder itself does run empty etc.


There are also some modern cars, mostly vags and mercs fitted with the latest esp systems that you can not bleed manually, you need the correct software to activate the esp module to automatically bleed the brakes.

i think you mean doesnt :pac: small error could lead to alot of people very angry as to why their brakes still have air in them

CiniO

I'd say every garage should have that kind of device to be able to check fluid's boiling point.
It takes only a minute, and could be done anytime customers is doing some work with the car (brake pads, etc.)

http://cgi.ebay.ie/Sealey-Brake-Fluid-Tester-Boil-Test-VS0271-/230438592833?pt=UK_Measuring_Tools_Levels&hash=item35a735e141

For home use you can obviously buy cheaper one, which probably will give you fair inditation as well. Something like that.
http://cgi.ebay.ie/Brake-Fluid-Tester-Moisture-Percentage-Tester-Tool-/380310165301?pt=UK_Measuring_Tools_Levels&hash=item588c409735

feelites

there's only one fluid that people care about
FUEL!! :pac:

-Corkie-

Thanks Chris for mentioning it last night. I have mine booked in with VW next week to do it. It has not being done since new (07) now over 292k..:)

Esel

-Corkie- wrote: »

It has not being done since new (07) now over 292k..:)

Fuppin' heck, that's some mileage! :eek:

-Corkie-

Esel wrote: »

Fuppin' heck, that's some mileage! :eek:

I didnt put it up. A mate of mine had it as a taxi got it for 6k last year..:)

Atlantic Dawn

€24.99 for this kit, would love to hear anyones experience using it?

http://www.halfords.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_11101_catalogId_15551_productId_204645_langId_-1_categoryId_212616

Crasp

I thought ABS made working on brakes more difficult? I could do it on a bike/motorbike, but wouldn't attempt it on a car. Then again, I don't do it on my bikes either, I still leave it to the pros.

lomb

2 year changes are probably specced for repeated autobahn stops from 100+mph and high humidity environments. Apparantly moisture can be absorbed into it through the rubber hoses and plastic tank. Id say 3 or 4 years would be safe for the average car. If the easibleed is used then no software is needed as the fluid is just pushed through, however if air enters a vw system the the abs module needs to be activated to flush the air out. Just use a pressure bleeder!

robtri

Esel wrote: »

Fuppin' heck, that's some mileage! :eek:

I was just thinking the same..... :eek:

Esel

-Corkie- wrote: »

I didnt put it up. A mate of mine had it as a taxi got it for 6k last year..:)

Don't say he was quitting the game because there's no money in it?

-Corkie-

Esel wrote: »

Don't say he was quitting the game because there's no money in it?

No I am totally O/T here but he got a 2010 Passat then and got a new 2011 Caravelle last week. He works 24/7 though, dogs life.

-Chris-

-Corkie- wrote: »

Thanks Chris for mentioning it last night. I have mine booked in with VW next week to do it. It has not being done since new (07) now over 292k..:)

Is there any way we'd be able to get a photo of the old fluid or any info on it (water content etc.) if you'd chance your arm to ask?

I'd always recommend it, or do it, because the manufacturers recommend it, but I'd be interested in the real-world experience of it.

-Corkie-

-Chris- wrote: »

Is there any way we'd be able to get a photo of the old fluid or any info on it (water content etc.) if you'd chance your arm to ask?

I'd always recommend it, or do it, because the manufacturers recommend it, but I'd be interested in the real-world experience of it.

I will ask any way but I was looking at the wifes car today and thinking of what you were saying last nite and the fluid in my reservoir seemed to be duller in colour than her car. Mine has over 4 times the mileage.

BrianD3

Colour doesn't mean a whole lot when it comes to brake fluid. If the fluid is dark it doesn't mean that there is a lot of moisture in it or that it has been contaminated.

Brake fluid change interval on my Laguna is 72,000 miles or 4 years. So, if Renault say 4 years and some other manufacturers say 2 years and they use the same Dot 4 spec fluid, who is right?

I have seen enough conflicting info on this to be unconvinced about the value of routine brake fluid changes. I have seen official (older) documentation from Renault which states that brake fluid doesn't need to be changed as part of servicing, only if a major component of the brake hydraulic system is replaced.

In terms of sticking to service schedules and anything else being shoddy maintenance - on the same page where it recommends 72k miles/4 years for replacing Laguna brake fluid, it also says that airbags should be replaced every 10 years. On a car with 6 airbags - I don't believe this is going to happen in reality, not in Ireland or in any other country.

Stheno

Thanks for the thread Chris, will be asking my mechanic to do this on my car when I get it serviced, not been changed since I've had it and it's done over 45k miles in that time.

dnme

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

€24.99 for this kit, would love to hear anyones experience using it?

http://www.halfords.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_11101_catalogId_15551_productId_204645_langId_-1_categoryId_212616

Works well. But in my case the kit had no compatible cap for my brake fluid reservoir. I had to go to a scrap yard, get one there and mod it to fit this kit. Dont use too much pressure in the tyre. 15psi should do it.