Is Micheal Martin same recipe different chef?

sparkling sea

To me Micheal Martin has tonight confirmed that the sneakness and the ability to cover up blatant untruths which seems intrinisic in past Fianna Fail leaders, is still alive and well.

Are we as a nation likely to be taken in and develop a liking for old wine in a fancy new bottle or will we see through the facade and realise that politics is about problem solving and proactive effective action not acting skills

CoalBucket

sparkling sea wrote: »

To me Micheal Martin has tonight confirmed that the sneakness and the ability to cover up blatant untruths which seems intrinisic in past Fianna Fail leaders, is still alive and well.

Not all FF leaders, Cowen was useless at it.

PeterIanStaker

FF, as I've said before, is an organism that'll do anything to seize & hold power.

Micheál Martin (need I remind you he created the HSE) is indeed same recipe different chef.

I feel very sorry for the poor gobdaws out there who think that FF have had some sort of road to Damascus change of heart.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Monty Burnz

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

It's hilarious really if you think about it. This is the Fianna Failure approach to a problem.

1. Problem: massive replication of roles and inefficiency due to 11 different bodies doing the same thing.
2. Solution: reorganise the eleven into one new body, with no redundancies.
3. Result: 1 large inefficient, overstaffed body in place of 11 small ones.

Obviously letting unnecessary people go would be bad for PR, so they were never going to do that. Rather than make a difficult (but correct) decision, they were happy to keep firing our money down the jacks.

delta720

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

FF, as I've said before, is an organism that'll do anything to seize & hold power.

Micheál Martin (need I remind you he created the HSE) is indeed same recipe different chef.

I feel very sorry for the poor gobdaws out there who think that FF have had some sort of road to Damascus change of heart.

What are you on about?? You make it sound like it's a party of evil men who purposely destroyed Ireland.

While there is no doubt that they fell asleep at the wheel, to say they did it on purpose is crazy but predictable from a generalised boards post.

At the end of the day from 2008 onwards FF did what they thought was best for the country, pre-2008 every party was the same, the opposition weren't jumping around saying the country was headed to ****, FG wanted to increase the national debt because they claimed FF were too conservative with public expenditure.

FF are now a scape-goat for the failings of every one of our politicians, the opposition have let the country down as much as the government.

I think the majority of posters on boards, who seem to think a change in government is going to have any meaningful effect on the day to day lives of Irelands citizens or on the rate at which the economy recovers, are childishly naive.

In relation to tonights debate, Eamon Gilmore refused to answer specific questions about what Labour will do in government and simply tried to play to the audience by repeatedly highlighting FF's faults in the last government. Labour will probably still get my vote but I feel they wasted a massive opportunity to show the party's merits, instead of just saying ' look we're better than FF' which isn't exactly setting the bar high.

Micheal Martin in fairness to him was excellent in what should have been a very difficult debate.

ICE HOUSE

Is Micheal Martin same recipe different chef?

Yep but with a new waiting staff !!

delta720

Monty Burnz wrote: »

It's hilarious really if you think about it. This is the Fianna Failure approach to a problem.

1. Problem: massive replication of roles and inefficiency due to 11 different bodies doing the same thing.
2. Solution: reorganise the eleven into one new body, with no redundancies.
3. Result: 1 large inefficient, overstaffed body in place of 11 small ones.

Obviously letting unnecessary people go would be bad for PR, so they were never going to do that. Rather than make a difficult (but correct) decision, they were happy to keep firing our money down the jacks.

You clearly have no understanding of unions or what actually happened in that situation.

I think of all the parties FF have showed they can make difficult and unpopular but correct decisions.

I think I better stop posting now before it looks like I'm in FF!

The standard of posts in this forum has taken a dive worse than our economy!!!

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Liam Byrne

delta720 wrote: »

I think of all the parties FF have showed they can make difficult and unpopular but correct decisions.

With you on the first two adjectives, but the third one is - at best - completely unproven and completely unlikely.

They SAY that they're "correct but necessary", but since they didn't look at alternatives ("There is no alternative") and in some cases didn't even read the reports commissioned, it is unlikely that anyone other than an FF supporter would take the above view.

Note that I didn't say "impossible", just "unlikely" or - in other words - "rare".

sparkling sea

CoalBucket wrote: »

Not all FF leaders, Cowen was useless at it.

Not all past leaders - but past leaders all the same, particularly Bertie Ahearn and Charlie Haughey - the cunning and open to corrupt practice leaders - but the extremely good preformers in terms of how they came across on TV and how they could woe in the voter.

sparkling sea

ICE HOUSE wrote: »

Is Micheal Martin same recipe different chef?

Yep but with a new waiting staff !!

Loving it

jimmycrackcorm

His smoking ban plan showed he can takea plan through to fruition.

Monty Burnz

delta720 wrote: »

You clearly have no understanding of unions or what actually happened in that situation.

I think of all the parties FF have showed they can make difficult and unpopular but correct decisions.

I think I better stop posting now before it looks like I'm in FF!

The standard of posts in this forum has taken a dive worse than our economy!!!

Please argue about the points raised rather than insulting other posters. I have to confess though, I did laugh out loud at this bit:

delta720 wrote: »

I think I better stop posting now before it looks like I'm in FF!

Monty Burnz

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Nope. Vote for them at your peril.

The unions obviously would not have liked redundancies - that's my point. A good government would have stood up to the unions, not avoided a row at the cost of however many hundreds of millions of taxpayers' money.

tweedledee

It amazes me that people would still vote FF.Imagine Ireland as a business,Ireland Inc.I am the owner of Ireland Inc and I put in place a management team(Bertie,Cowan,Coughlan,Martin,Dempsey,harney,Linehan,Ahern etc) to run my business and make me and company money.They are useless and make a complete mess of my business.I am angry so I immediately sack the lot of em and search for a new team of professionals to sort out my company.Done.Why has this not happened????3 years later and most of the management team are still in place.Not in a million years would I use the same people who destroyed Ireland Inc. to help rebuild it.This is business 101.first module in any Economics course.Its very very sad how very little Irish people understand about commerce.Even the most basic.In ten years FF took a huge profit and turned it into an enormous loss and still 1000's of Irish voters will vote for them again?????????

Pherekydes

tweedledee wrote: »

It amazes me that people would still vote FF.Imagine Ireland as a business,Ireland Inc.I am the owner of Ireland Inc and I put in place a management team(Bertie,Cowan,Coughlan,Martin,Dempsey,harney,Linehan,Ahern etc) to run my business and make me and company money.They are useless and make a complete mess of my business.I am angry so I immediately sack the lot of em and search for a new team of professionals to sort out my company.Done.Why has this not happened????3 years later and most of the management team are still in place.Not in a million years would I use the same people who destroyed Ireland Inc. to help rebuild it.This is business 101.first module in any Economics course.Its very very sad how very little Irish people understand about commerce.Even the most basic.In ten years FF took a huge profit and turned it into an enormous loss and still 1000's of Irish voters will vote for them again?????????

Because many people are not tweedledees; they are tweedledumbs.

Skrynesaver

Well, lets take a look at his recipe's ingredients

• Took IR£5,00 of a developer and washed it through his wife's account
• Appointed the rat faced perjurer from Limerick to the front bench
• Was responsible for the establishment of the HSE
• I didn't hear him confronting "the consensus" when Bertie was burning the candle at both ends

Looks like the same shít to me

K-9

Skrynesaver wrote: »

Well, lets take a look at his recipe's ingredients

• Took IR£5,00 of a developer and washed it through his wife's account
• Appointed the rat faced perjurer from Limerick to the front bench
• Was responsible for the establishment of the HSE
• I didn't hear him confronting "the consensus" when Bertie was burning the candle at both ends

Looks like the same shít to me

Was the first point ever proven?
In fairness, he is hardly spoilt for choice, most have deserted the ship
HSE was good in principle. This is Ireland, was never going to work.
Yep, same as FG and Labour in that regard.

ednwireland

K-9 wrote: »

HSE was good in principle. This is Ireland, was never going to work.

This is BS MM and bertie didnt have the balls to put in a decent redundancy package those savings could have been made and a more efficient structure put in place (rmember we were in the middle of boom), instead of doing the hard thing they took the easy option and said no redundancies

sanbrafyffe

ff are just conmen and bullys.look at their past.the hse was a joke,the biggest drain on the economy.we need that changed.michael martin may be a good chatter but i dont think he has it up there fully.his decision making is atrocious.we wud go worse if he got in

sparkling sea

K-9 wrote: »

HSE was good in principle. This is Ireland, was never going to work.

This maybe because our present government introducdes knee jerk, ineffiecent and stupid policies and then try to put them into action.

An example being an employment embargo in the HSE - but the HSE had spent €52 million between January and September of 2010 on agency nurses

The HSE in Dublin North East spent around €7 million between January and October 2010 on locum consultants and NCHDs to cover staff shortages.

Reducing spending on agency staff to 2006 levels would save €93 million in 2011 if the embargo was lifted. Fianna Fail are not keeping their eye on the ball - its justa pity they didn't leave the pitch a couple of years ago.

K-9

ednwireland wrote: »

This is BS MM and bertie didnt have the balls to put in a decent redundancy package those savings could have been made and a more efficient structure put in place (rmember we were in the middle of boom), instead of doing the hard thing they took the easy option and said no redundancies

We'll see how FG get on.

Decent redundancy package? Why, what was on offer on top of benchmarking?

gbee

sparkling sea wrote: »

To me Micheal Martin has tonight confirmed that the sneakness and the ability to cover up blatant untruths which seems intrinisic in past Fianna Fail leaders, is still alive and well.

More insults and arrogance and absolutely no change of the guard in actual fact. So I agree with your summation fully.

smokingman

Has he offered to refuse that 90,000 yet?
A payout that was set up by his good buddy Bertie

mewso

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I think you'll find no greater supporter than FF based on actual evidence.

marienbad

'' Now is the Winter of our discontent made glorious Summer by this sun of Cork''

I think not

Johnny Volume

delta720 wrote: »

I think I better stop posting now before it looks like I'm in FF!

You mean you're not??

Craebear

No, I think you'll find he's same boat different captain.

Killer Pigeon

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Nope. Vote for them at your peril.

The unions obviously would not have liked redundancies - that's my point. A good government would have stood up to the unions, not avoided a row at the cost of however many hundreds of millions of taxpayers' money.

OMG

The Unions, the Unions, the Unions, the Unions, the Unions, the Unions.

Just a pile of bitter people who somehow view Labour's historical attachment to the Unions as being detrimental.

Noreen1

Yes, same recipe, different chef.

The problem is, I'm having trouble finding a chef among any of the parties whose recipe sounds even remotely plausible.....