The DON'T VOTE gang

zetorman

I get very annoyed at the amount of people who are always giving out about everything and yet they do not bother to vote !!!! In this election I expect we will get about a 70% turn out. That 30% left. Naturally a small number for varoius reasons are unable to vote and I accept that....lets count them at 10%. What can or should be done about the remaining 20% ???

listermint

zetorman wrote: »

I get very annoyed at the amount of people who are always giving out about everything and yet they do not bother to vote !!!! In this election I expect we will get about a 70% turn out. That 30% left. Naturally a small number for varoius reasons are unable to vote and I accept that....lets count them at 10%. What can or should be done about the remaining 20% ???

Not alot,

some people are disillusioned with the system, as they feel that it does not effect they're day to day lives. They can be from all classes. But I would suggest that a majority are in poverty or are from a similar background. Very difficult to gain access to these people, they would really have to find a special reason to vote, be it a very focused local politcian or some party that looks accessible.

RetroBate

zetorman wrote: »

I get very annoyed at the amount of people who are always giving out about everything and yet they do not bother to vote !!!! In this election I expect we will get about a 70% turn out. That 30% left. Naturally a small number for varoius reasons are unable to vote and I accept that....lets count them at 10%. What can or should be done about the remaining 20% ???

Nothing.

Anarchists don't vote in elections because they believe politicians whatever they promise can and will do whatever they think is in their own interests once they have been elected.
Anarchists do vote in referenda as this is direct consultation with the electorate and the result has the force of law.

I suspect most of those who don't vote wouldn't describe themselves as anarchists but may hold the view that it doesn't matter who you vote for you still end up with a shower of selfserving politicians. This is a view anarchists agree with.

Did those who voted for the Green Party in 2007 vote for tens of billions of Euro worth of private bank debt to be converted into public debt? Did they vote for something called 'libelous blasphemy' to be made illigal?

There are valid reasons why people don't vote and they still have the right to protest.

I'm not an anarchist (yet) and I will be voting but more in anger than in hope.

mewso

I can certainly understand apathy when you have a choice between a corrupt FF, a promise everything FG, a can't decide what they stand for LP, the Looney Left and Fix the Fence down the road independents.

For now it looks like the country is going to revolutionise politics by doing the usual flip from FF to FG. Hard to be enthusiastic about politics or voting.

johnie89

zetorman wrote: »

I get very annoyed at the amount of people who are always giving out about everything and yet they do not bother to vote !!!! In this election I expect we will get about a 70% turn out. That 30% left. Naturally a small number for varoius reasons are unable to vote and I accept that....lets count them at 10%. What can or should be done about the remaining 20% ???

Personally I think anyone on social welfare who doesn't vote (Unless they have good reason not to) should have half their pay taken off them for a week.

The amount of people I know on social welfare who have never voted is ridiculous... How can anyone complain about something when they didn't even bother voting for change in the first place.

POINTBREAK

By voting all you are doing is propping up an undemocratic system.
Political parties work against democracy by making it virtually impossible for a decent independant who might actually have the best interests of the country as his main concern to get elected.
Your TD even if he is a decent bloke must toe the party line and vote how the party tell him.
No matter who is in power the opposition spend most of their time trying to undermine them.
Outlaw political parties and bring back democracy.

Sad Professor

70 percent turnout is pretty good. It is far worse in other countries (50 percent in Poland I think). I suppose we could introduce compulsory voting for everyone, but if people really don't want to vote then they shouldn't necessarily be made. It's their choice. But I'm fairly ignorant of how well compulsory voting works in Australia, Malta, etc, so maybe it should be considered.

Akrasia

zetorman wrote: »

I get very annoyed at the amount of people who are always giving out about everything and yet they do not bother to vote !!!! In this election I expect we will get about a 70% turn out. That 30% left. Naturally a small number for varoius reasons are unable to vote and I accept that....lets count them at 10%. What can or should be done about the remaining 20% ???

No matter who you vote for, a politician always gets elected.

If you vote for a candidate from a party, you're essentially voting for the leader of that party and his chosen front bench. Back benchers in irish politics have no power other than to be loyal and bide their time in the hope of a promotion

If you vote for an independent, he will have no hope of influencing national issues, the best he can hope for is to get local concessions for supporting a minority govt

NecroSteve

Are you taking into account people who don't want to be governed, who in fact regard all government without direct consent to be illegitimate and an assault on personal freedom? Voting means condoning that, so that's one reason why some people choose not to. And besides, no one runs for election for any reason other than to gain power for themselves. Voting encourages that kind of behaviour. I'll never believe a single story about noble intentions, because there's no evidence that it's ever true.

Devil08

I dont think the turnout will be 70%. A lot lower actually.
I think in Australia it is a legal requirement to vote. Im not too sure about this policy TBH. Some people are better off not voting at all due to their severe lack of common sense and cop on.
I think Ireland is a severely uneducated country when it comes to politics and those who dont vote probably wouldnt know how to pick up a pencil anyway. They give out about the state of the country but dont vote because they wouldnt know what to actually vote for. If they did, then they would vote to try change things. Why moan about things if you dont really care about trying to change them?
Ireland just has this tradition of moaning about things for the sake of it and doing nothing about it. Fine example is of people in restaurants, moaning about the service and food but dont say anything. Well these people can take some of the blame for sitting back and letting the country get in the state it is in.
The ones who matter are the ones who actually vote and know what they are voting for.

Zubeneschamali

In Belgium or Australia, you must show up and vote or you get fined. You can spoil your vote if you like, but you have to show up.

zetorman

Thanks folks......but the gang that really annoy me are those who follow politics on tv, radio etc hold strong views AND STILL CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO VOTE. They all cherish democracy and yet they will not engage in the process.

Sad Professor

Devil08 wrote: »

Some people are better off not voting at all due to their severe lack of common sense and cop on.

I agree. But the people who aren't voting can't be any worse than the ones who keep voting FF into power over and over again because Bertie/whoever helped their ma get their house, or helped them get their drivers license (wink wink, nudge nudge), etc.

Compulsory voting sounds like a good idea actually. Like Zubeneschamali said, they can spoil their vote if they want.

POINTBREAK

zetorman wrote: »

Thanks folks......but the gang that really annoy me are those who follow politics on tv, radio etc hold strong views AND STILL CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO VOTE. They all cherish democracy and yet they will not engage in the process.

I have strong political opinions and have actually studied politics and I have never voted. Its pointless and endorses a corrupt political system. They only let you vote because your vote means nothing. You only get to choose between politicians and from all evidence these people should never be allowed near power.
They lie to get in and they lie to stay in. They don't give a monkey's about the country. They crave power and the wealth that goes with it.

POINTBREAK

Sad Professor wrote: »

I agree. But the people who aren't voting can't be any worse than the ones who keep voting FF into power over and over again because Bertie/whoever helped their ma get their house, or helped them get their drivers license (wink wink, nudge nudge), etc.

Compulsory voting sounds like a good idea actually. Like Zubeneschamali said, they can spoil their vote if they want.

Compulsory voting be needed if they had an option on the form to vote for..... None of these Tossers. X
The polling stations would be full to overflowing.

Devil08

POINTBREAK wrote: »

I have strong political opinions and have actually studied politics and I have never voted. Its pointless and endorses a corrupt political system. They only let you vote because your vote means nothing. You only get to choose between politicians and from all evidence these people should never be allowed near power.
They lie to get in and they lie to stay in. They don't give a monkey's about the country. They crave power and the wealth that goes with it.

I cant understand why someone would study poilitics who has no intention of ever voting and doesnt agree with the political system. Why study something you are so much against?

DoesNotCompute

In Perú, people who don't vote are fined. Sounds great in theory, however, this just means that apathetic people will just vote for anyone, just to avoid a fine.

Devil08

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

In Perú, people who don't vote are fined. Sounds great in theory, however, this just means that apathetic people will just vote for anyone, just to avoid a fine.

You can spoil your vote. Just put a big line through it or whatever you want. You dont have to vote for anyone.

POINTBREAK

Devil08 wrote: »

I cant understand why someone would study poilitics who has no intention of ever voting and doesnt agree with the political system. Why study something you are so much against?

I can't understand how anyone could vote without studying politics. You wouldn't bet on a race without studying that, would you? Besides there is nothing wrong with democracy or politics, its just that the system we use is wrong. We would be much better represented if we used a version of Sortition.

"Democracy arose from the idea that those who are equal in any respect are equal absolutely. All are alike free, therefore they claim that all are free absolutely... The next is when the democrats, on the grounds that they are all equal, claim equal participation in everything."

Humans eh!

I will vote, and am grateful that I have been allowed to because of the sacrifices of others.
However, I have been researching all the candidates and their pledges carefully in my constituency and can not find anyone party or independent that enthuses me at all. It is the lack of choice that disheartens me.
Also, I personally believe that no matter who is elected it is the faceless unelected civil servants (what a misnomer) who hold the key power.

I really believe that politicians and political parties are just window dressing to give the population the appearance of having a choice in who governs them and the idea that your vote makes a difference but once in office they are at the mercy of their so called advisors and the highly paid benign lifetime dictators in the top echelons of the civil service, whom are answerable to no-one.

Its so depressing that we are distracted by "GE 2011 antics and the personality factor" and believe that things will change come the end of the month. Its swings and roundabouts for politicians, and we are paying for the ride.

Devil08

POINTBREAK wrote: »

I can't understand how anyone could vote without studying politics. You wouldn't bet on a race without studying that, would you? Besides there is nothing wrong with democracy or politics, its just that the system we use is wrong. We would be much better represented if we used a version of Sortition.

"Democracy arose from the idea that those who are equal in any respect are equal absolutely. All are alike free, therefore they claim that all are free absolutely... The next is when the democrats, on the grounds that they are all equal, claim equal participation in everything."

I wouldnt bet on a horse race without knowing about the horses. Just like I wouldnt vote without knowing about who im voting for. I know everything there is to know about who im voting for and what they stand for. I know all about their policies. Thats enough for me. I dont need to study politics to vote. No one does.

Jesus Wept

Re-open nominations.

Jesus Wept

Compulsory voting is beyond retarded.
If people can't be motivated or encouraged to vote then the system ought to be changed so that most people are motivated to vote.

Devil08 wrote: »

those who dont vote probably wouldnt know how to pick up a pencil anyway.

You are only displaying ignorance with this.

Devil08

The-Rigger wrote: »

Compulsory voting is beyond retarded.
If people can't be motivated or encouraged to vote then the system ought to be changed so that most people are motivated to vote.



You are only displaying ignorance with this.

Yes you are right. I apologise. Ill clear up what I was trying to say. I have no problem with people who dont vote once they have valid reasons for it. And some people do have valid reasons. But there is a lot of people out there who just wont vote because 'the country is already in bits, fkcuked if im gonna vote, politicians are all w&nkers' type attitude. Im saying we are better off these type of people not voting.

Suryavarman

POINTBREAK wrote: »

I have strong political opinions and have actually studied politics and I have never voted. Its pointless and endorses a corrupt political system. They only let you vote because your vote means nothing. You only get to choose between politicians and from all evidence these people should never be allowed near power.
They lie to get in and they lie to stay in. They don't give a monkey's about the country. They crave power and the wealth that goes with it.

If you have such strong political opinions, why don't you start a political party or run as an independent?

If our vote means nothing then how are TD's elected? Is there some sort of raffle to see who gets what, that we do not know about?

Not all politicians crave power and wealth. Sinn Fein TD's only take home the average industrial wage, so that rules them out of the wealth argument. There are plenty of independent candidates running in this election so that they can have their voice heard and change things for the better. The chances of them getting power is very unlikely, so there is another group of politicians that aren't in it because they crave power.

melekalikimaka

personally i'd be happier with only educated people allowed to vote, people voting on out economic future based on 'anger' and 'spite', pure idiocy, and then admiting it on here, really they should get their vote taken from them.

POINTBREAK

Suryavarman wrote: »

If you have such strong political opinions, why don't you start a political party or run as an independent?

If our vote means nothing then how are TD's elected?

Is there some sort of raffle to see who gets what, that we do not know about?

Not all politicians crave power and wealth. Sinn Fein TD's only take home the average industrial wage, so that rules them out of the wealth argument. There are plenty of independent candidates running in this election so that they can have their voice heard and change things for the better. The chances of them getting power is very unlikely, so there is another group of politicians that aren't in it because they crave power.

If our vote means nothing then how are TD's elected?
It means nothing because they are all politicians and no different from one another.
why don't you start a political party or run as an independent?
Because as you said you have little or no chance of getting elected without the support and wealth of a large party. The large Parties conspire against democracy by keeping independents out. The principle of democracy is that everyone is equal and everyone should have equal opportunity.
Not all politicians crave power and wealth. Sinn Fein TD's only take home the average industrial wage,
You're right, sometimes just the power is enough.

POINTBREAK

Devil08 wrote: »

I wouldnt bet on a horse race without knowing about the horses. Just like I wouldnt vote without knowing about who im voting for. I know everything there is to know about who im voting for and what they stand for. I know all about their policies. Thats enough for me. I dont need to study politics to vote. No one does.

Do you know what happens to your vote?
Do you know what value it has once you have elected a TD?
The simple answer is no value at all. Your TD will vote how he is told by the Party leaders or suffer the consequences. Briefly, you have voted for someone who will then be told how he should vote.................so what value does your vote have again?
Are you happy with the leadership of the country since 1922? Or like most other people do you think they were all in it for themselves and incaplbe of running a country?

Ash.J.Williams

Is 70% optimistic by our standards?

Devil08

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Is 70% optimistic by our standards?

As far as i know, the last 4 or 5 parlamentary elections were around the 65-68% mark.

tonysea

melekalikimaka wrote: »

personally i'd be happier with only educated people allowed to vote, people voting on out economic future based on 'anger' and 'spite', pure idiocy, and then admiting it on here, really they should get their vote taken from them.

Lunacy! what would u suggest? an IQ test at the polling station? everyone above the age of 18 is entitled to a vote and rightly so. And everyone is entitled to be angry at decisions made by previously elected governments.

"I'd like to see you try to take peoples vote away"

melekalikimaka

tonysea wrote: »

Lunacy! what would u suggest? an IQ test at the polling station? everyone above the age of 18 is entitled to a vote and rightly so. And everyone is entitled to be angry at decisions made by previously elected governments.

"I'd like to see you try to take peoples vote away"

if people cant put their emotions aside during voting they lack the understanding of the significance of voting, and to be honest most the irish public know nothing about the economy other than snipits from media outlets, so have no idea what they are voting for

POINTBREAK

tonysea wrote: »

Lunacy! what would u suggest? an IQ test at the polling station? everyone above the age of 18 is entitled to a vote and rightly so. And everyone is entitled to be angry at decisions made by previously elected governments.

"I'd like to see you try to take peoples vote away"

Its an interesting idea though. Is there any other situation where people who know nothing about it are allowed to elect the decision makes?
Maybe that is why we end up with so many people who haven't a clue running the country................hmmmmmmmm

johnnyskeleton

johnie89 wrote: »

Personally I think anyone on social welfare who doesn't vote (Unless they have good reason not to) should have half their pay taken off them for a week.

The amount of people I know on social welfare who have never voted is ridiculous... How can anyone complain about something when they didn't even bother voting for change in the first place.

Then there would be a sudden surge in people voting for whoever promises to increase social welfare the most (or cut it the least).

TheQ47

Devil08 wrote: »

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Is 70% optimistic by our standards?

As far as i know, the last 4 or 5 parlamentary elections were around the 65-68% mark.

A quick Google shows a 67.03% turnout for 2007, and 62.57% for 2002, so Devil08 is on the mark there.

invinciblePRSTV

melekalikimaka wrote: »

if people cant put their emotions aside during voting they lack the understanding of the significance of voting, and to be honest most the irish public know nothing about the economy other than snipits from media outlets, so have no idea what they are voting for

Quite a quaint, Victorian viewpoint on things indeed. Of course the massive, gaping hole in your no doubt innocently made argument is that removing the vote from certain people on questionable criteria automatically means a regime where their interests and concerns will mean zilch as politicians will only bother focusing on the electors interests, so you'll have wonderful situations like Pre-universal suffrage United Kingdom, Jim Crow era USA or Orange-State era Northern Ireland where a vast underclass of people with limited or no voting rights get shafted by their compassionate social betters who of course would never dare of voting only in their own self-interest. Oh no, of course not.

No doubt you reckon you're well enough informed to pass such a nonsense IQ test or the like. Do us a favour love, apply a bit more cop-on when considering whether to advocate such nonsense arguments next time.

Ray Burkes Pension

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

No doubt you reckon you're well enough informed to pass such a nonsense IQ test or the like. Do us a favour love, apply a bit more cop-on when considering whether to advocate such nonsense arguments next time.

Have SkySports contacted you about the job vacancy yet?

POINTBREAK

melekalikimaka wrote: »

if people cant put their emotions aside during voting they lack the understanding of the significance of voting, and to be honest most the irish public know nothing about the economy other than snipits from media outlets, so have no idea what they are voting for

Most of the Politicians also appear to know nothing about the economy, but that makes sense since they were elected by people who know nothing about it either.
You wouldn't let someone who knows feck all about football pick the team, but when it comes to Government it matters not a jot apparently.

Sad Professor

Bah, never mind voters or politicians, most economists don't seem to know much about the economy from what I can see. Or what they do know is clouded by their own political biases and agendas.

Akrasia

POINTBREAK wrote: »

I can't understand how anyone could vote without studying politics. You wouldn't bet on a race without studying that, would you? Besides there is nothing wrong with democracy or politics, its just that the system we use is wrong. We would be much better represented if we used a version of Sortition.

"Democracy arose from the idea that those who are equal in any respect are equal absolutely. All are alike free, therefore they claim that all are free absolutely... The next is when the democrats, on the grounds that they are all equal, claim equal participation in everything."

I'm reminded of the quote attributed to the Anarchist Emma Goldman
"If voting could change anything it would be illegal"

Voting is incapable of forcing change by itself, if accompanied by a radical social movement it can be a tool for change, but only at the end game, not as a driver for change.

If you vote for a radical candidate to be inserted into the mainstream political system, he will either be corrupted by the system, or impotent and utterly without influence.

To those are attacking non voters as 'apathetic' or declaring that they have no right to complain about the government if they don't vote, the act of voting is only one form of political action, and it is arguable that it is the lowest form of political action.

To the people who have no participation in politics other than to vote in elections, you are doing the bare minimum, and others who are more actively engaged in community work, activism and political discourse arguably have much more of a right to complain about inadequacies in public governance than those who simply vote and then disengage

Killer Pigeon

I heard one person say;

"I'm not voting because I don't believe democracy works anymore and we need an alternative system."

POINTBREAK

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

I heard one person say;

"I'm not voting because I don't believe democracy works anymore and we need an alternative system."

We should give democracy a go. Its bound to be better than what we have now.

Fozzydog3

the way I see it I dont want to be responsible for "unpopular apologetic suited man " and his term of blaming FF