emt/paramedic ?

A.G.S

hi I would like to become a paramedic when I leave school this year I'm doing doing foundation maths and didn't do biology can i still become an emt? and would this course be suitable for me to become an emt ? *SNIP*

coolmoose

Your foundation level maths will make you ineligible to apply for Paramedic training with the HSE.

From the Information Booklet for last campaign:

"Candidates must possess:
a) The Leaving Certificate (or equivalent)
Candidates must have obtained a pass (minimum of Grade D) in at least Five subjects at
Pass or Honours level in their Leaving Certificate examination which must include a Maths
and a Science subject (Biology, Chemistry or Physics)
Or
A qualification equivalent to same. Please note:-
• A primary degree from a recognised third level institution is acceptable in lieu of Leaving
Certificate.
• Where candidates hold a Leaving Certificate with five passes, at pass or honours level,
including Mathematics but excluding Science: A valid PHECC EMT certificate is
acceptable in the absence of a science subject.
• Educational qualifications obtained from other jurisdictions will be assessed on an
individual basis."

You will still be able to do a private EMT course, however this will only be accepted in lieu of biology/physics/chemistry, and you would still need to fulfill the Maths criteria in order to be eligible.

Láidir

*SNIP*

I am currently in an EMT course with the above organisation. It's really interesting maths is a minor equation they don't care if its higher ordinary or foundation. Your taught to solve puzzles of a different nature i.e. you find a person unconcious on the ground what happened to them? How do i help them? Anatomy & Physiology with some common sense is what you need here. I would definitely recommend it.

touge_drift

Láidir wrote: »

*SNIP*

I am currently in an EMT course with the above organisation. It's really interesting maths is a minor equation they don't care if its higher ordinary or foundation. Your taught to solve puzzles of a different nature i.e. you find a person unconcious on the ground what happened to them? How do i help them? Anatomy & Physiology with some common sense is what you need here. I would definitely recommend it.

but to progress further to paramedic, maths becomes more important. also just be aware incase your not fully up to speed ags, the jobs market for emt's these days are through the floor. and paramedic oppertunities dont come around often in this country

Hooch

No advertising please folks

Thanks

NGA

coolmoose

Láidir wrote: »

*SNIP*

It's really interesting maths is a minor equation they don't care if its higher ordinary or foundation. Your taught to solve puzzles of a different nature i.e. you find a person unconcious on the ground what happened to them? How do i help them? Anatomy & Physiology with some common sense is what you need here. I would definitely recommend it.

You're kind of missing the point of doing maths as a subject in school so...it's not all about the actual "sums" but the ability perform logical analytical reasoning, and use analysed solutions to figure out problems. Maths teaches you these skills.

Going back to the actual mathematics of it, everyday involves medication and weight calculations, and you need to be proficient at maths to calculate these correctly.

Also private companies don't care what your educational background is for EMT training, they want your money...period. Recruitment for the statutory services is a bit more intense!

Láidir

Sorry admin. no harm intended. anyway best to look up the pre hospital emergency care councils (PHECC) website they regulate and set the standards to which all emts, paramedics and advanced paramedics must meet.

coolmoose

Láidir wrote: »

Sorry admin. no harm intended. anyway best to look up the pre hospital emergency care councils (PHECC) website they regulate and set the standards to which all emts, paramedics and advanced paramedics must meet.

They only set the course syllabus and required content via the Education adn Training Standards.

The actual entry criteria for admission to the Paramedic training programme (and subsequent Diploma in Emergency Medical Science) with the HSE NASC/UCD have nothing to do with PHECC, and are set by UCD in consultation with the HSE.

Láidir

Forgive me that came out wrong. A strong foundation Maths is required in some shape or form in most occupations for instance as an EMT you'll need to work out how much oxygen to give a patient, dosage of a medication they may need and give accurate vital signs etc.

Láidir

Coolmoose please bare with me i'm strictly speaking from an student EMT's point of view and with that I would ask the OP to keep that in mind. I'm assuming that the OP is wanting to start at EMT level. Now clearly you have much more scope on the actual Paramedic and Advanced Paramedic end of it (possibly your a practioner of one of them) and i would encourage the OP to listen to your advice. But anyway all i'm saying is that my math and biology(which i failed) hasn't stopped me from entering into something that i really love and would be a fulfilling career for me. And yes I did have to borrow money to do it but it will be repaid and i will thank the credit union for making it possible for me.

coolmoose

Yes but it will stop him from becoming a Paramedic, regardless of whether he has the EMT done or not...

Having the PHECC EMT ticket does not exempt you from the entry criteria of the Paramedic programme which include Pass or Honours Maths & Science.

Yes you're correct he may still become an EMT with a private service etc...but that's not what he asked for advice on in his inital post, and TBH job opportunities are quite limited for EMTs in this country at the moment.

maglite

Tour still in school, your willing to pay out to do a private EMT.

IMHO, Talk to your pass math teacher in the school, tell him you want to move up and will get grinds. Its still doable if you want it.

cocoshovel

Hey op. I'm doing foundation maths and don't do biology (I do Ag Science :P). I am sitting my LC this year. Of course we wouldn't be able to get into that course, or pretty much every course in Ireland.
But there is other ways of getting around to this sort of thing. I joined OMAC and am sitting the First aid and emergency management course, when I complete that I can move onto the CFR course, and continue further after 2 years I think of OMAC service to do the EFR course or is it the EMT course? I cant quiet remember it fully but I was told that the course available to us in later years will get me recognized by PHECC and many people often go on to join the official ambulance service this way. I'm sure by that time, I will be a mature student and will be more eligible to join due to my experience and qualifications? I hope I'm right in thinking this anyway.
Theres always a long way around these things!

coolmoose

cocoshovel wrote: »

...I was told that the course available to us in later years will get me recognized by PHECC and many people often go on to join the official ambulance service this way. I'm sure by that time, I will be a mature student and will be more eligible to join due to my experience and qualifications? I hope I'm right in thinking this anyway.
Theres always a long way around these things!

This is where there is a lot of misinformation with regards to applying for the HSE/UCD training programme, and it's getting to the point where people are being sold EFR/EMT courses with these promises, which are untrue.

It's irrelevant if you are CFR/EFR/EMT when applying, this doesn't matter at all in fact. The vast majority of people applying will have little or no pre-hospital experience. The only exception being that the PHECC EMT licence is currently accepted in lieu of accepted LC science subjects (Chemistry/Physics/Biology)

Mature students must still meet the current entry criteria of

1. LC with Pass/Honours Maths & Science
2. Primary degree from a recognised third level institution
3. Recognised equivalent of either of the above from another jurisdiction (assessed on an individual basis)

Having the EFR/EMT behind you may be useful for the interview stage, but is irrelevant for application stage...which you need to get through first!

Láidir

Was talking to my supervisor on my placement. As far as he knows private paramedic courses will be introduced down the line, he was saying that pre-hospital emergency services are operating 10% below the minimum mainly because we can't get enough paramedics into the service. I take it with a pinch of salt when I hear these things but hopefully...

cocoshovel

coolmoose wrote: »

This is where there is a lot of misinformation with regards to applying for the HSE/UCD training programme, and it's getting to the point where people are being sold EFR/EMT courses with these promises, which are untrue.

It's irrelevant if you are CFR/EFR/EMT when applying, this doesn't matter at all in fact. The vast majority of people applying will have little or no pre-hospital experience. The only exception being that the PHECC EMT licence is currently accepted in lieu of accepted LC science subjects (Chemistry/Physics/Biology)

Mature students must still meet the current entry criteria of

1. LC with Pass/Honours Maths & Science
2. Primary degree from a recognised third level institution
3. Recognised equivalent of either of the above from another jurisdiction (assessed on an individual basis)

Having the EFR/EMT behind you may be useful for the interview stage, but is irrelevant for application stage...which you need to get through first!

Ah well thats disappointing. Will there be other possible ways of getting into the ambulance service without doing a specific course like talked about here.?

maglite

Lads don't base career aspirations on assumptions. Even if the private course does come in, IT WILL BE EXPENSIVE. think €20k+


Do pass math in your leaving cert, or look at PLC options. I cant see PHECC allowing paramedics with foundation maths. They are here to promote and enhance the Pre-Hospital field reducing a pre requirement(albeit that of UCD) just would be too likely.

5500

maglite wrote: »

Do pass math in your leaving cert, or look at PLC options. I cant see PHECC allowing paramedics with foundation maths. They are here to promote and enhance the Pre-Hospital field reducing a pre requirement(albeit that of UCD) just would be too likely.

Regarding the PLC option, a couple of people I know who did a fetac level 5 in healthcare support and tied in with pre paramedic studies who were turned away on the last recruitment drive even having obtained a distinction on the course.

It doesnt seem fair that UCD are saying its a minimum of LC + a science subject and yet a fetac level 5 is the equivilant of the LC on the NFQ but isnt accepted. The guys appealed this with UCD and got nowhere.

Could there be possible grounds for discrimination against mature students in the future with this? Given that as a mature student with no educational background you can apply and be offered a place studying medicine, granted there's hpat, interviews ect ect to be done but surely something isnt right with UCD's idea of equivilancy.

maglite

OFA is fetac 5.

Nothing stopping anyone of any age doing a LC, therefor there is no discrimination.

5500

OFA may be level 5 but its only a component cert as opposed to a "full" level 5 which would include 8/10 subjects and takes a year to do which is the equivilant to the LC.

Even though anyone can do the LC at any age, why should they have to sit for a year to recieve a cert thats the same level on the NFQ that they already have but UCD are being fussy about.

Hightower21

I agree with what is being said above.
I had my leaving cert, Pass maths & Pass Physics in 1997, 8

I have been un employed for the last year.
I did a course in a galway institute for EFR and EMT.
I managed to get a grant of €500 for an €800 course from fas for the EFR.
I got a grant from the HSE (back to education grant) for €1000 for an €1500 EMT Course.

I beleve the EMT and EFR courses are benifical for anybody thinking of entering the National Ambulance Service paramedic.

I hope this helps anyone thinking of applying for this type of career.

p.s. Starting in March in Dublin.

baronflyguy

I recently came across an adult and a teenager who couldn't multiply by 4. When I asked them for a pulse rate, i told them to try take for 15 seconds then multiply by 4 ..... they both gave me way off incorrect answers.
For continuity of care good vital signs documented is a must.

maglite

Take for 30 x2
or 6sec and put a 0 at the end....



4Times is asking a bit to be fair

baronflyguy

maglite wrote: »

Take for 30 x2
or 6sec and put a ) at the end....

4Time is asking a bit to be fair

I got them to multiply their answer by 2 and then multiply that answer by 2 again. I suppose I was kind of expecting them to figure it out themselves without been told how to multiply.
I told them I just wanted the rate whether they preferred taking it for 15 secs, 30 secs or 1 min was up to that at the end of the day.
But I did stress it was important to get it right and not guess an answer.

Elessar

Maybe when Fine Gael inevitably get into power, their plan to dismantle the HSE will also apply to the ambulance service, brining back east/west ambulance regions etc.

Might we also get regional ambulance recruitment and finally "deregulation" of pre hospital emergency care training?

touge_drift

Elessar wrote: »

Maybe when Fine Gael inevitably get into power, their plan to dismantle the HSE will also apply to the ambulance service, brining back east/west ambulance regions etc.

Might we also get regional ambulance recruitment and finally "deregulation" of pre hospital emergency care training?

why would you want to de-regulate training????
i find a bit of comfort in the fact if i ring 999 in any part of the republic that i will get the same good standard of care

Elessar

touge_drift wrote: »

why would you want to de-regulate training????
i find a bit of comfort in the fact if i ring 999 in any part of the republic that i will get the same good standard of care

Sorry by deregulation I meant the dismantling of the monopoly the HSE have on Paramedic training, so non HSE employees can do the training if they wish. Nothing to do with PHECC.

touge_drift

ohhhh yeah, would agree there, if there was a way to maintain cpd and patient contacts etc

TylerIE

maglite wrote: »

Take for 30 x2
or 6sec and put a 0 at the end....



4Times is asking a bit to be fair

Is it really?

With Paramedics being expected to do more and more in the line of drugs surely multiplication by any single digit should be acceptable. Paediatric doses etc - One cant rely on a calculator and should be able to figure out the rough dosage in case they make a typing error. And what about drugs that come in fractions of a gram?

A friend has been caught up in the melee of being accepted into HSE in the last recruitment drive but now doesnt meet the UCD requirements. I would see the appropriateness of having these standards for all future recruits. I understand its a bit annoying considering that until now there may be people in without even a JC but these people have built up experience and tacit knowledge.

With an increasing demand on services, and a wider range of roles for Paramedics, its appropriate that they should be drawn from a pool similar to that of other healthcare professionals.

maglite

I'm going to go with the "tongue in cheek" ness of my post was lost in translation.

TylerIE

maglite wrote: »

I'm going to go with the "tongue in cheek" ness of my post was lost in translation.

Apologies - I know far far far too many people who think that the standards should not be changed!

And many of these people epitomize exactly why they should be changed!

Actual Paramedic

Elessar wrote: »

Sorry by deregulation I meant the dismantling of the monopoly the HSE have on Paramedic training, so non HSE employees can do the training if they wish. Nothing to do with PHECC.

Training and the TI's are regulated and need to stay regulated. There is no problem with a private school starting up, once it can satisfy the PHECC criteria in the Education and Training standards. There is no monopoly as nobody has tried to gain paramedic level.