Focus or Leon?

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Hey folks, my current focus has all but died on me and I am looking to get a new motor.

I'm looking at two at the moment, after looking at many cars and classes. I'm looking at the Ford Focus 1.6TDCi and the Seat Leon 1.9TDi, both 2008. I'm just not 100% sure which to go for.

Any suggestions? Anyone have any experience with either car? Cheers.

CabanasBoy

Dare to be different (well, a little bit anyway). Go for the Leon (once it's not the hideous XL version). Pretty much a Golf/Octavia under the skin and the 1.9TDi is a pretty solid motor too.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

CabanasBoy wrote: »

Dare to be different (well, a little bit anyway). Go for the Leon (once it's not the hideous XL version). Pretty much a Golf/Octavia under the skin and the 1.9TDi is a pretty solid motor too.

I prefer the look of the Leon, brother in law has a 1.6 petrol. Very nice car indeed.

I was told the MPG for the focus is about 55 but i'm not sure what it is for the Leon, any ideas? Current care is about 25-30 MPG which is not good at all.

GTE

The 1.9tdi would be in the 50 - 55 mpg range.

sean1141

the leon are a pretty nice drive.. the 105bhp 1.9tdi feel lively enough.. my sister has one.. try get a higher spec one..

Ricardo G

Go for the leon !! Much more appealable car (especially for the younger market). You'll sell her pretty easily in a few years again. Aestheticly pleasing and more mpg

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

bbk wrote: »

The 1.9tdi would be in the 50 - 55 mpg range.

Thanks for that, I was looking for something around this range.

sean1141 wrote: »

the leon are a pretty nice drive.. the 105bhp 1.9tdi feel lively enough.. my sister has one.. try get a higher spec one..

What you mean a higher spec one? With all the extras or you mean something else?

I'm guessing that either of these cars are going to be somewhat more powerful than the 1.4 petrol LX focus I have atm?

Nonoperational

They would feel a good bit more powerful than your focus alright.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Ricardo G wrote: »

Go for the leon !! Much more appealable car (especially for the younger market). You'll sell her pretty easily in a few years again. Aestheticly pleasing and more mpg

Thanks

This is just reinforcing my thoughts. Although the ford sales man had said the focus would have more MPG, up to 62. I'm guessing he's trying to sell me the car as this is a major factor in my purchase.

Divorce Referendum

Ryleigh Abundant Twilight wrote: »

Thanks

This is just reinforcing my thoughts. Although the ford sales man had said the focus would have more MPG, up to 62. I'm guessing he's trying to sell me the car as this is a major factor in my purchase.

He is not far off. I have an 05 1.6tdci focus and I get around 55-58mpg with alot of motorway driving. I would imagine a newer engine would probably do a bit better as well

Ricardo G

They'll tell you there car can fly if it means getting a sale so i would'nt be too concerned with the salesman "speel"

sean1141

ya try get one with the extras.. alloys etc. do the leons are pretty well speced. they will have good mpg and will feel a lot quicker than your 1.4!!

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Divorce Referendum wrote: »

He is not far off. I have an 05 1.6tdci focus and I get around 55-58mpg with alot of motorway driving. I would imagine a newer engine would probably do a bit better as well

Aha, that's fair enough. Don't mind the lower MPG on the Leon as I was looking for something in the 50's.

Asking price at the moment for the Leon with about 40K miles (average) is about €12750. Would I have much of a chance going in to the garage with 10K cash or what would be a reasonable offer?

Focus seems to be around €11500 so I am guessing I could get that for 10K without much of an effort.

Ricardo G

Ryleigh Abundant Twilight wrote: »

Aha, that's fair enough. Don't mind the lower MPG on the Leon as I was looking for something in the 50's.

Asking price at the moment for the Leon with about 40K miles (average) is about €12750. Would I have much of a chance going in to the garage with 10K cash or what would be a reasonable offer?

Focus seems to be around €11500 so I am guessing I could get that for 10K without much of an effort.

Cash wont help the situation at all as most dealers prefer to get the finance deal (make a few more quid from ya). Also look at what both cars will be worth in 3/4 years and which one will sell easier

Atomic Pineapple

Ryleigh Abundant Twilight wrote: »

Aha, that's fair enough. Don't mind the lower MPG on the Leon as I was looking for something in the 50's.

Asking price at the moment for the Leon with about 40K miles (average) is about €12750. Would I have much of a chance going in to the garage with 10K cash or what would be a reasonable offer?

Focus seems to be around €11500 so I am guessing I could get that for 10K without much of an effort.

Depends on the garage, I know some garages are now advertising cars at cash prices and have little to no room on movement, if you were trading in expect even less movement.

And your also buying a car they'll be able to sell relatively easily, so I highly doubt you'd get the Leon for €10k.

Divorce Referendum

Ryleigh Abundant Twilight wrote: »

Aha, that's fair enough. Don't mind the lower MPG on the Leon as I was looking for something in the 50's.

Asking price at the moment for the Leon with about 40K miles (average) is about €12750. Would I have much of a chance going in to the garage with 10K cash or what would be a reasonable offer?

Focus seems to be around €11500 so I am guessing I could get that for 10K without much of an effort.

Ya I would say it would be reasonable to expect a 1000 euro off sticker price for a cash deal. If you can get 2,750 off the Leon I am bringing you with me to buy my next car.;)

maidhc

Ryleigh Abundant Twilight wrote: »

Thanks

This is just reinforcing my thoughts. Although the ford sales man had said the focus would have more MPG, up to 62. I'm guessing he's trying to sell me the car as this is a major factor in my purchase.

I think you will struggle to beat 50mpg in either the Leon or Focus. I have people tell me they get insane milage (60+) from their TDis, but still get the same distance from a similar sized tank as I do when I calculate 45-50mpg.

Ford sales men are generally inept, but they do for the most part sell better cars they their VAG counterparts. If the Focus has the 110bhp engine it will be far nicer than the TDi and much more petrol like to drive being a far more modern 16v design.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Ricardo G wrote: »

Cash wont help the situation at all as most dealers prefer to get the finance deal (make a few more quid from ya). Also look at what both cars will be worth in 3/4 years and which one will sell easier

I won't be looking to sell it, that's the plan now anyway. Drive it until it can't drive anymore, or costs too much to repair.

draffodx wrote: »

Depends on the garage, I know some garages are now advertising cars at cash prices and have little to no room on movement, if you were trading in expect even less movement.

And your also buying a car they'll be able to sell relatively easily, so I highly doubt you'd get the Leon for €10k.

No probs, thanks for the advice. What would you suggest would be a good price? I can afford the 13K, but that's the limit. Either way, no point paying the asking price if I can get it cheaper by asking. Ya know? I'm guessing about 11K - 11.5K would be the expected price to pay?

Divorce Referendum wrote: »

Ya I would say it would be reasonable to expect a 1000 euro off sticker price for a cash deal. If you can get 2,750 off the Leon I am bringing you with me to buy my next car.;)

Cheers Will let you know how I get on over the next few weeks :P

I guess 10K was wishful thinking

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

maidhc wrote: »

I think you will struggle to beat 50mpg in either the Leon or Focus. I have people tell me they get insane milage (60+) from their TDis, but still get the same distance from a similar sized tank as I do when I calculate 45-50mpg.

Ford sales men are generally inept, but they do for the most part sell better cars they their VAG counterparts. If the Focus has the 110bhp engine it will be far nicer than the TDi and much more petrol like to drive being a far more modern 16v design.

90% of my driving will be motorway. I rarely drive the weekends, if anything only a few miles for groceries etc etc.

coolbeans

Between the two of them I'd go for the Focus over the Seat. The Ford has a way better, reliable, modern, refined Peugeot engine while the Seat makes do with the worthy but rough and positively ancient 1.9 lump. Also I don't much like the looks of the Leon. It reminds me of an Alfa 147 that's eaten too many big macs which is no coincidence as it was designed by an ex Alfa designer. The Focus also drives a little better but only marginally so.

CabanasBoy

coolbeans wrote: »

Between the two of them I'd go for the Focus over the Seat. The Ford has a way better, reliable, modern, refined Peugeot engine while the Seat makes do with the worthy but rough and positively ancient 1.9 lump. Also I don't much like the looks of the Leon. It reminds me of an Alfa 147 that's eaten too many big macs which is no coincidence as it was designed by an ex Alfa designer. The Focus also drives a little better but only marginally so.

The 1.9TDi lump is not "positively ancient". it's certainly a lot older than the Pug 1.6 unit but has been developed and refined (though still not as ultra smooth as some of the newer diesels) over the years and as its a larger capacity than the 1.6 it's not as stressed as the smaller engine and has lovely low end pull which is something the new small capacity diesels can't match. The 1.9 is rough only on cold start up (as are most diesels) but once warmed up it's a fine motor and they're bullet proof. Peugeot diesels used to be the best in the world but that is not the case anymore.

maidhc

CabanasBoy wrote: »

Peugeot diesels used to be the best in the world but that is not the case anymore.

Most would disagree with you there.

Zubeneschamali

CabanasBoy wrote: »

The 1.9TDi lump is not "positively ancient". it's certainly a lot older than the Pug 1.6 unit but has been developed and refined (though still not as ultra smooth as some of the newer diesels) over the years

No, it's been completely replaced by a common rail design like the Peugeots.

EPM

Had a 2006 Leon petrol for the last 3 and a half years. Get the stylance with the sport up pack. It rides harshly but the interior is nicer and it looks a lot better. Spec on the stylance has all you'd need. Good driving position and loads of space front and rear (more room in rear seats than the Octavia I have now).

But the 1.9 TDi is getting on a bit and the harsh ride will annoy over time. Doing a lot of mileage the Focus will be the more comfortable car, has better steering and less of a lip in the boot which can make heavy items a pain with the Leon.

Green Hornet

Keep in mind that the Leon is really bad inside. Shockingly plastic and poorly designed. Not roomy either. Looks bigger than it is. Test drove one just after a Civic and it was way behind the Civic in all departments. I'd pick the Focus any time over the agricultural Leon.

GTE

Its all about gearing from my experience.

My 11 year old 1.9tdi (5 speed) will do 60 mpg but once you hit a motorway I would be getting high 40's at best and 43 at worst (really non-eco trip). That is at 120-130kph and 2900rpm.

If the 1.6tdci Ford is a 6 speed then I would imagine that would be better on the motorway then a 5 speed 1.9tdi VAG.

A 6th gear is something I would love on my car but I would say the newer cars would have 6 speeds. GRR!

It is just a consideration to make and something worth checking on a test drive if you can. even take note of what rpm it does at a lower speed. I am sure there is a way of calculating the motorway cruise rpm.

EPM

Green Hornet wrote: »

Keep in mind that the Leon is really bad inside. Shockingly plastic and poorly designed. Not roomy either. Looks bigger than it is.

Bar the average boot, the rear is quite roomy in the Mark 2. The plastics are rubbish in places but it is well screwed together. What used grate with me was if you installed the armrest (like I did) the two decent cupholders were useless and the third is pointless for anything bigger than a coke can...

CabanasBoy

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

No, it's been completely replaced by a common rail design like the Peugeots.

Eh, no what? the 1.9 is still sold alongside the new 1.6CR and 2.0CR and over its entire life it was tweaked and developed and refined so my statement was 100% correct sir.

CabanasBoy

maidhc wrote: »

Most would disagree with you there.

Disagree about what? the Pug diesel used to be one of the best or isn't anymore? They are still fine engines and still very good but most of the other manufacturers have caught up.

zilog_jones

bbk wrote: »

Its all about gearing from my experience.

My 11 year old 1.9tdi (5 speed) will do 60 mpg but once you hit a motorway I would be getting high 40's at best and 43 at worst (really non-eco trip). That is at 120-130kph and 2900rpm.

At those speeds aerodynamic drag is going to be your biggest enemy, regardless of gearing. A 6th gear might help but I can't say by how much. 120 km/h really is the limit for reasonable fuel consumption, and even going down to 100 km/h can make a big difference (if you have the time!).

EPM

CabanasBoy wrote: »

Disagree about what? the Pug diesel used to be one of the best or isn't anymore? They are still fine engines and still very good but most of the other manufacturers have caught up.

The 1.9 is now defunct in the Leon. We were getting pre-facelifts most of last year but any orders now will be CR. I doubt there are many 1.9s if any unregistered here unless they've been sitting around a long time

Zubeneschamali

CabanasBoy wrote: »

Eh, no what?

Eh, yes, look it up. The 1,9 TDi is finally gone.

son-of-plunder

Wouldnt touch a car with the peugeot 1.6 hdi engine tbh. Theres a particle filter in them to reduce co2 emissions or that. it burns exhaust emissions again and regenerates itself i think. But after so many miles its needs the oil in it to be replaced, if it isnt changed the filter can clog up and ruin the turbo, sometimes the engine aswell

franksheehy

leon all the way. its an excellent drive and much more reasonably priced

WhatsGoingOn2

I've had both cars. Had a '06 Leon (latest model) 1.9TDi which I owned for 3 years, and a '08 Focus 1.6TDci (108hp face lifted model) which I recently sold after having for about 18 months. I much preferred the Leon and I got a better mpg from my daily, mainly motorway, commute. Approx 58mpg for Leon vs 54mpg for Focus

Divorce Referendum

franksheehy wrote: »

leon all the way. its an excellent drive and much more reasonably priced

No its more expensive.

coolbeans

son-of-plunder wrote: »

Wouldnt touch a car with the peugeot 1.6 hdi engine tbh. Theres a particle filter in them to reduce co2 emissions or that. it burns exhaust emissions again and regenerates itself i think. But after so many miles its needs the oil in it to be replaced, if it isnt changed the filter can clog up and ruin the turbo, sometimes the engine aswell

That's typical boards pub talk BS. You are clearly clueless :mad: God, if you don't know what you're on about don't say anything instead of spreading misinformation and ignorance. There's no oil in a DPF. Mixing oil at the exhaust system would not be a good idea for obvious reasons.

That engine has been in use over a huge number of models and has proved more reliable than the majority of new diesels. It's used in Fords, Volvos, Peugeots, Citroens, Mazdas and I'm sure some others. It's well tested by now. I stand by my comment about the 1.9 TDI. It's ancient, positively antediluvian, and no amount of messing around with the head will change that.

Divorce Referendum

coolbeans wrote: »

That's typical boards pub talk BS. You are clearly clueless :mad: God, if you don't know what you're on about don't say anything instead of spreading misinformation and ignorance. There's no oil in a DPF. Mixing oil at the exhaust system would not be a good idea for obvious reasons.

That engine has been in use over a huge number of models and has proved more reliable than the majority of new diesels. It's used in Fords, Volvos, Peugeots, Citroens, Mazdas and I'm sure some others. It's well tested by now. I stand by my comment about the 1.9 TDI. It's ancient, positively antediluvian, and no amount of messing around with the head will change that.

It still achieves the same if not better mpg than the 1.6HDI and they dont have a dpf here in Ireland. That in itself is a saving of money as the tax is only about 30-40 euro cheaper in the HDI per year. Its a tiny bit noiser on startup but thats about it . There is other things to be had about the 1.9tdi, but just saying its old is a bit weak.

Henry Ford III

Divorce Referendum wrote: »

Its a tiny bit noiser on startup but thats about it . There is other things to be had about the 1.9tdi, but just saying its old is a bit weak.

It's old, rough, rattly, & noisy. If you drove both back to back you'd soon realise the difference.

Thankfully it's production has ceased now. The world has moved on some distance since that old boat anchor was competitive.

son-of-plunder

coolbeans wrote: »

That's typical boards pub talk BS. You are clearly clueless :mad: God, if you don't know what you're on about don't say anything instead of spreading misinformation and ignorance. There's no oil in a DPF. Mixing oil at the exhaust system would not be a good idea for obvious reasons.

That engine has been in use over a huge number of models and has proved more reliable than the majority of new diesels. It's used in Fords, Volvos, Peugeots, Citroens, Mazdas and I'm sure some others. It's well tested by now. I stand by my comment about the 1.9 TDI. It's ancient, positively antediluvian, and no amount of messing around with the head will change that.

actually im not clueless, have seen this happen in a peugeot 407 during the summer. and there is an oil for the filter called eloys oil, its topped up from a tank behind the rear wheel in the 407, but a quick search online shows people have had serious problems with them, mainly cos of that filter.

CabanasBoy

Henry Ford III wrote: »

It's old, rough, rattly, & noisy. If you drove both back to back you'd soon realise the difference.

Thankfully it's production has ceased now. The world has moved on some distance since that old boat anchor was competitive.

What a load of guff! It may have finally been dropped by the various users but it was competitive right up to the end with VW (bluemotion) and Skoda (greenline) using it as their most efficient engine! You're coming across as yet another armchair expert (and lord knows, Boards has plenty of them) who actually has zero experience of this engine. It was such a lousy, noisy, rough, inefficient and uncompetitive engine that VAG kept it in production just out of stubbornness? I don't f**kin' think so.

EPM

CabanasBoy wrote: »

What a load of guff! It may have finally been dropped by the various users but it was competitive right up to the end with VW (bluemotion) and Skoda (greenline) using it as their most efficient engine! You're coming across as yet another armchair expert (and lord knows, Boards has plenty of them) who actually has zero experience of this engine. It was such a lousy, noisy, rough, inefficient and uncompetitive engine that VAG kept it in production just out of stubbornness? I don't f**kin' think so.

The main reason it was sropped is because it wasn't going to meet EU emmission regulations.

It was rough, noisy and had a narrow powerband. Others can manage to be smoother, quieter and give a wider powerband so how can that make it competitive to the end?

CabanasBoy

EPM wrote: »

The main reason it was sropped is because it wasn't going to meet EU emmission regulations.

It was rough, noisy and had a narrow powerband. Others can manage to be smoother, quieter and give a wider powerband so how can that make it competitive to the end?

Every car or component has a finite lifespan, the fact remains that the 1.9 T diddly i has remained competitive right up to 2011! Fair enough, it is being replaced now in 2011 with a smaller capacity unit but to say it is rough and noisy is just a load of sh1te you heard somewhere. Maybe the sound proofing in my car is exceptional but I still get people commenting on how quiet and smooth the car is and asking if it's petrol or diesel (220,000km) so don't be just jumping on the "noisy Tdi" bandwagon, as to the narrow rev range comment, my yoke has the 6 speed DSG which gets the best from the engine, maybe I'd feel different if I was rowing along in a manual.

sean1141

my sister went from a 1.6hdi pug to a 1.9 leon and said she would never go back. she says the leon is a lot nicer car to drive, better handling and a lot more comfortable plus its cheaper to run than the pug was

Henry Ford III

CabanasBoy wrote: »

What a load of guff! It may have finally been dropped by the various users but it was competitive right up to the end with VW (bluemotion) and Skoda (greenline) using it as their most efficient engine! You're coming across as yet another armchair expert (and lord knows, Boards has plenty of them) who actually has zero experience of this engine. It was such a lousy, noisy, rough, inefficient and uncompetitive engine that VAG kept it in production just out of stubbornness? I don't f**kin' think so.

Ah another VAG Tdi fanboy! Your view is I suspect tainted by your ownership of said boat anchor.

The 1.9Tdiddlyi is dead and buried. Not before time, and no harm either.

p.s. A manufacturer will keep on producing any engine as long as it gets away with it, because it's cheap (and in this case nasty too).

Daymo007

I bought the Leon over the Focus last year, its a very solid car, no issues with it all and I think it looks very stylish.

EPM

CabanasBoy wrote: »

Every car or component has a finite lifespan, the fact remains that the 1.9 T diddly i has remained competitive right up to 2011! Fair enough, it is being replaced now in 2011 with a smaller capacity unit but to say it is rough and noisy is just a load of sh1te you heard somewhere. Maybe the sound proofing in my car is exceptional but I still get people commenting on how quiet and smooth the car is and asking if it's petrol or diesel (220,000km) so don't be just jumping on the "noisy Tdi" bandwagon, as to the narrow rev range comment, my yoke has the 6 speed DSG which gets the best from the engine, maybe I'd feel different if I was rowing along in a manual.

No it's not something I heard somewhere. It is a rough and noisy engine compared to the oppositions offerings. To be honest I have the VAG 170PS common rail engine now in an Octavia and I don't think thats particularly smooth either but is light years ahead of the old 1.9.

It was only competitive in terms of economy, reliability. It also went ok I suppose for only 105 brake.

amm2

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Ah another VAG Tdi fanboy! Your view is I suspect tainted by your ownership of said boat anchor.

The 1.9Tdiddlyi is dead and buried. Not before time, and no harm either.

p.s. A manufacturer will keep on producing any engine as long as it gets away with it, because it's cheap (and in this case nasty too).

I've deliberately chosen Octavia 1.9 TDI (rather than 1.6) mainly for 3 reasons: 1.9 has proven reliability; nice feeling of poke from low revs (this is diesel!) with roundabouts on 3-rd gear; actually extension of item 1 - normally the bigger engine the higher longevity.
Having said that - I loved 1.6 as well - and probably would get that one if it would have service record, similar with 1.9 one's.

In regards to noisiness - yes, it is nosier that 1.6 - but if you listen and compare; By the way, I've put Motul 5w30 vw specific oil in it (quite pricey though) - and got noise noticeably lower (had Shell 5w30 before).

"Dead and buried" - its again, up to EU requirements - otherwise it would easily stay around for another 10 years (sorry, don't mean to upset you )
Its just my opinion certainly - and probably its like discussion what color better - green or white...

Henry Ford III

amm2 wrote: »

I've deliberately chosen Octavia 1.9 TDI (rather than 1.6) mainly for 3 reasons: 1.9 has proven reliability; nice feeling of poke from low revs (this is diesel!) with roundabouts on 3-rd gear; actually extension of item 1 - normally the bigger engine the higher longevity.
Having said that - I loved 1.6 as well - and probably would get that one if it would have service record, similar with 1.9 one's.

In regards to noisiness - yes, it is nosier that 1.6 - but if you listen and compare; By the way, I've put Motul 5w30 vw specific oil in it (quite pricey though) - and got noise noticeably lower (had Shell 5w30 before).

"Dead and buried" - its again, up to EU requirements - otherwise it would easily stay around for another 10 years (sorry, don't mean to upset you )
Its just my opinion certainly - and probably its like discussion what color better - green or white...

Reliability - ok. The newer units can't have earned this due to them being....erm....newer.

Poke - that'd be the same as initial throttle response, or low range pull or early torque, but others would call it a narrow power band.

Oil - are you kidding? VAG recommended oil is spectacularly pricey as is, and if it were possible to mask a relatively unrefined engine by specifying a different lubricant do you not think they'd have done it by now?

The 1.9 tdi is gone from the new VW model lineup for a reason. Infact several reasons.

It was a tough and worthy unit in it's day, but that day is now gone.

Just my 2c worth.

Divorce Referendum

Henry Ford III wrote: »

It's old, rough, rattly, & noisy. If you drove both back to back you'd soon realise the difference.

Thankfully it's production has ceased now. The world has moved on some distance since that old boat anchor was competitive.

Every few days i drive them back to back mate. I own a focus 1.6tdci and the other half has an octavia 1.9tdi. I dont see this world of difference you are talking about. Economy is exactly the same if not a little better in the bigger tdi. Power band is exactly the same. Oh the noise, oh ya forgot its 2db louder on startup than the common rail. Rattly ha ha, did you ruin the ones you drove? As far as i know the engine in the other halfs car isnt old its only a year old. Im no tdi fanboy because i never owned one but I fail to see what you are on about. Common rail is around an awful long time now mate. Terrible old technology.

Henry Ford III

Divorce Referendum wrote: »

Every few days i drive them back to back mate. I own a focus 1.6tdci and the other half has an octavia 1.9tdi. I dont see this world of difference you are talking about. Economy is exactly the same if not a little better in the bigger tdi. Power band is exactly the same. Oh the noise, oh ya forgot its 2db louder on startup than the common rail. Rattly ha ha, did you ruin the ones you drove? As far as i know the engine in the other halfs car isnt old its only a year old. Im no tdi fanboy because i never owned one but I fail to see what you are on about. Common rail is around an awful long time now mate. Terrible old technology.

The design of the 1.9tdi is decades old. It's simply not at the races anymore on emmissions, or refinement. The narrow powerband issue is also well documented.

It's not my fault if you don't/can't notice any difference. Greater motoring authorities than us both have. Again all this is well documented.