Radio Eireann in the 1940's

cml387

There is an exchange of views in today's letters page in the Sunday Independent about the possibility of James Joyce listening to Radio Eirenn in Zurich in the 1930's.

Last week Ulick O'Connor stated that James Joyce was listening to"Question Time" from Radio Eirenn in his flat in Zurich at that time.

The letter writer doubts this,but Ulick reckons that it did happen and an Irish diplomat witnessed it.

So,could the Athlone signal be heard at night in Zurich in 1940?

watty

Possibly, quite probable after dark. Not in day time usually, though if 576kHz, might have been feasible with large aerial in daylight.

There was less interference in Urban areas.

Many people listened to Radio Luxemberg at night in 1950s and 1960s on poorer aerials. In those days outdoor aerials where common. By mid 1930's radio sets quite good and the "superhet" concept "invented" in 1918 at least.

By the mid-1930s however, superheterodynes were using higher intermediate frequencies, (typically around 440–470 kHz), with tuned coils similar in construction to the aerial and oscillator coils

1920s superhets were not very good, but by mid 1930s MW radios were as good or better than most cheap transistor models today, had large outdoor aerial and earth spike, often ran from interference free batterys (90V ht) and Urban RF interference from TVs, CFL lamps, SMPSU, powerline ethernet etc didn't exist.

I can get German and French LW on car radio and beside radio with Whip aerial during daytime. Radio Devon on MW during daytime on car radio with engine off in Limerick. MW easily travels from Ireland <-> Central Europe via "Skip" at night. MW band full at night time. No RTE on it though

cml387

Thanks for that Watty.

I do seem to remember (memories are hazy) though that the Athlone transmitter was replaced by the Tullamore transmitter in the 1970's because people in the south in particular were having difficulties at night with RE being swamped with foreign stations.

Tullamore,being built on bog,created a better ground wave than Athlone.

If you had problems in Kerry, listening in Zurich must have been more difficult.

watty

cml387 wrote: »

Thanks for that Watty.

I do seem to remember (memories are hazy) though that the Athlone transmitter was replaced by the Tullamore transmitter in the 1970's because people in the south in particular were having difficulties at night with RE being swamped with foreign stations.

Tullamore,being built on bog,created a better ground wave than Athlone.

If you had problems in Kerry, listening in Zurich must have been more difficult.

Not in 1930s to 1940s with an outdoor aerial. In 1970s radios getting poorer for Medium wave and Continental stations more powerful.

In 1940s a lot of them Bombed off air, lower power due to electricity shortages and using less frequencies due to synchronised Single Frequency networks to make RDF by bombers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/21/a7157621.shtml Home Service received all over Europe during WWII
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Home_Service#World_War_II

Mike 1972

watty wrote: »

Not in day time usually, though if 576kHz, might have been feasible with large aerial in daylight.

Athlone never used 576 KHz

In the 1940's they were on 565 Kw

Initially they were running 60 Kw later this increased to 100Kw (a lot of contradiction between sources as to when this happened) and in 1975 it got moved to Tullamore (allegedly 500Kw but more often than not on reduced power) with Athlone initiallty serving as a back up before moving up to 612 KHz for use by Radio 2/2"FM"

There were also shortwave broadcasts from Athlone during much of the 1940's

Back in those days LW/MW signals travelled further though because radio's were better made, had proper aerials, the band was less overcrowded, electrical interference was less common and when it did happen the authorities (sometimes) were prepared to do something about it. Under such conditions its quite suprising how far even the most modestly powered stations could be recieved.

watty

Do you mean 565kHz? The 567kHz was in fact only since 1978.

It may have been on 566kHz though by the time mentioned

Anyway, the longer end of MW (lower KHZ) goes further on ground wave than the 1600KHz end. But both ends do all of Europe at night, though the 1600KHz end maybe a bit better.

Interesting about the Shortwave. I thought Shannon Air Radio (3.5MHz something?) was only SW. Not an exciting Program but 1st thing not a regular Broadcast I heard as a kid with my 1st SW set an R1155 in late 1960s. The Sony ICF 2001D is best domestic set I ever had. Tonight some French and German are about 1/2 scale on LED signal meter and quite clear. English Station fullscale. Just at beside, no external aerial. 6km west of Limerick. A "Washing line" aerial even on an early 1930s model radio used in 1940s would be fine.

My 1st SW Radio http://www.vq5x79.f2s.com/greenradio/Wireless21a.html Had an "Athlone" blocking filter!

The filter came about because the R1155 IF frequency is the same as that of Radio Athlone, a powerful Republic of Ireland national transmitter, and a RAF aircraft flying over N. Europe would receive a whopping signal which would cause IF breakthrough in a radio with an IF of 560 kcs

.

http://homepage.eircom.net/~totalbroadcast/athlone2.html

Frequency: 612kHz, Power : 100kW, Service: RTE 2FM

Radio Eireann’s famously-located Athlone transmitting station started operating in February 1933, with a 100kW Marconi transmitter.
This amazing piece of work operated until the late 50s, when it was replaced by a Brown-Boveri unit, also 100kW.
In 1975 RTE commissioned a new site, at Tullamore, and moved Radio Eireann to it. Athlone was then silent for a few years until the new national pop music service, 'Radio 2' started in 1979. This was, and still is transmitted from Athlone with a Continental Electronics 100kW transmitter.

The antenna is a T, between two approx 300-foot towers. Incredibly, both the original Marconi and the Brown-Boveri transmitters are still in situ! We had a tour of Athlone last week (24th Nov 2003) and took these pictures of this amazing place.

http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showpost.php?p=9805&postcount=8

From "Guide to Broadcasting Stations 15th Edition 1966".

Channel 5 Athlone 566 kc/s 530 metres 100KW.

I was one or two kHz out
http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showpost.php?p=9824&postcount=10

I have found a little more information about Radio Athlone, Attached is a brief cutting from "Popular Wireless" magazine dated December 24th 1932 about the test transmissions, on 413 metres, The station changed to 531 metres on 15th January 1934 under the "Lucerne plan". The station is listed as "Athlone 531 metres, Irish free state, Power 100 Kw, in "Popular Wireless" dated June 12th 1937. I hope this is of interest

300,000/531 = 564.97 KHz
About 565kHz.

later

http://www.radiowavesforum.com/rw/showpost.php?p=101239&postcount=9

The Athlone transmitter didnt actually open until 1932/33 and for the first few years of its existance was on 725 KHz before moving to 565KHz when the Madrid/Lucerne convention came into force in 1934. In 1950 it moved to 566 KHz (Copenhagen plan) in 1975 Tullamore took over (Athlone was kept as a backup until Radio 2 started) and in 1978 it moved up to 567 KHz.
...
During WW2 under the terms of a secret agreement with the UK the Dublin, Cork and Athlone transmitters along with a couple of relays in SW England were synchronised on 566KHz in orfer to prevent the Luftwaffe using the Athlone transmitter as a navigation beacon.

rlogue

So perhaps those relays helped Joyce listen to Radio Eireann in Zurich? They certainly would have extended RE's service area over Southern England and over a lot of the Continent at night..

When I was a small boy in the late 60s in London I remember my mother listening to Radio Eireann regularly. Years later when I moved to London I struggled to get a signal because Laser 558 and then Spectrum Radio swamped 567 from Tullamore.

It wasn't really until 252 was passed to RTE Radio 1 and now with the advent of good quality Internet and Satellite Radio that listening to RTE Radio 1 has become much easier here in London.

watty

They would have given daytime French coverage.

But I've no doubt thinking about it more that 100kW approx from Athlone would have been excellent all over Europe after dark on any decent radio made after about 1932 or 1933 with typical outdoor aerial and earth of the period.

When I was a very small boy in 1960s my Mum listened to Home service Exclusively. I listened to 208 and my Dad often to the Third Program. I don't think anyone other than myself after 1966 when I discovered SWL and Radio as a Hobby had listened to anything else. It wasn't ethnic bigotry, they just thought Radio Eireann was rubbish.

Sam Russell

In 1976, I was based for a year in Algiers and could get the midnight news from RTE, just. At about midnight the interference reduced, from Turkey, I think, or somewhere like that, and RTE came through. But only at midnight, and yer man Mitchel read the news and then RTE closed down. So I could get good reception as far as distance was concerned, and if the other MW radio stations were absent, I would have got it after dark regularly. So I reckon James Joyce could have got RE in the thirties, much less interference then.

AndyDXTV

In 2001 I was on holiday in Varidaeo, Cuba and after listning to the BBC on shortwave, (carrabian transmtter) scanned around came across RTE radio 1 on short wave, cant remember the frequency, weak signal but listnable, sat by a pool with a wire antenna strung across 3 palm trees. (PS loads of south Florida FM sations, at times 50+, and a couple of local spanish language-Cuban stations)

watty

That will have been booked part time on 3rd party Transmitters or on WRN transmission. Not from an Irish Transmitter.

cml387

Watty will probably know (as we gradually wander off topic) that there was an elaborate plan at one stage for a short wave station.
It would broadcast at different frequencies on the SW band, and the different aerial sizes would be all together on site in the shape of a harp.

Nothing came of it.

watty

I know nothing of this


But sounds fun.

Mike 1972

cml387 wrote: »

Watty will probably know (as we gradually wander off topic) that there was an elaborate plan at one stage for a short wave station.
It would broadcast at different frequencies on the SW band, and the different aerial sizes would be all together on site in the shape of a harp.

Nothing came of it.

Media Network (archive podcasts blog available online) once did an interesting item about it. Athone originally started SW broadcasts just before WW2 with a 1.5Kw transmitter. It was soon realised that this wasnt really adequete and there were plans for an upgrade but this was never realised owing to it being difficult enough to secure spare parts to keep the existing transmitters on the air at the time (shortages of fuel/electricity might also have been a factor) after the war DeValera (one of his better ideas) was keen to press ahead with the project but the incoming "Inter party" coalition viewed the whole thing as a waste of money and even scrapped the existing 1.5 Kw service. There was a brief revival (late fifties IIRC) for Irish UN troops in Africa under the name Radio Ogliacht (sp?) later in the 1990's RTE started hiring airtime on transmitters in Britain, the USA and (i think) Belgium for football coverage and news programming. Some of these programmes were(/are ?) also carried on the (mainly satellite based) "World radio Network"

watty wrote: »

Do you mean 565kHz? The 567kHz was in fact only since 1978.

Doh yes while correcting your typo I made one of my own

craoltoir

Option Musique from Switzerland was receivable here on 765Khz up to recently when they dropped the AM service. You can still receive French, Spanish and German stations with varying degrees of success on AM at night.

France Inter and Europe 1 are available on LW as well as BBC R4.

Fuzzy Clam

cml387 wrote: »

So,could the Athlone signal be heard at night in Zurich in 1940?

Most likely to have been on the shortwave service which started in 1939.

I wonder at what time of day Joyce was listening at.

Sam Russell

MW carries very well if there is no interference from other stations. It would have to be after dark.

watty

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

Most likely to have been on the shortwave service which started in 1939.

I wonder at what time of day Joyce was listening at.

It was night time.
Shortwave from Ireland to Zurich is less reliable at night than MW.
During daytime SW would work at that distance. But not always. SW is more variable and needs different bands for day and night and different bands for different distances. A single SW transmitter would be very limited, which is why the single low power SW transmitter was discontinued.

Fuzzy Clam

watty wrote: »

which is why the single low power SW transmitter was discontinued.

And replaced by a high power one in around 1948.

Mike 1972

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

And replaced by a high power one in around 1948.

The proposed 100Kw unit never made it onto Shortwave (as per my previous post)

Fuzzy Clam

Mike 1972 wrote: »

The proposed 100Kw unit never made it onto Shortwave (as per my previous post)

I believe it did.
The info is hard to find on the net (various sources) but it seems it went on in '48 and possibly made sporadic transmissions until about '53. Tests made have alternated between 1.5 and 100 Kw.
After the war, uncertain of date but likely the 1950's, the Marconi 1.5 Kw was returned to the BBC and may have been put back on MF.
Frequencies used since 1939 inc. 9595, 15120 and 17840.

Radio Oglaigh na Eireann began in 1961, possibly on 17544 kHz.

Your info may come from the Media Network program. It's a long time since I listened to it but from recollection it is mentioned that the transmitter was installed and the antenna erected. Even logic would dictate that it would probably have made at least one transmission before being dismantled.

If you have a definitive source that confirms that the 100 kw unit never made it to air, i would be very interested in it.

Fuzzy Clam

I hadn't seen this before today. From the RTE libraries and archives;

"In 1947, Taoiseach de Valera decided to promote the cause of short wave broadcasting. Accordingly, a major expansion of Radio Éireann was authorised, a powerful transmitter was purchased and extensive tests were carried out, but in the end broadcasting on short wave was never developed into a regular service."

Fuzzy Clam

cml387 wrote: »

Tullamore,being built on bog,created a better ground wave than Athlone.

On the contrary, bog is a poor conductor, so is a poor site for a Tx. (waits to be shot down by Watty and Mike)

Fuzzy Clam

watty wrote: »

It was night time.
Shortwave from Ireland to Zurich is less reliable at night than MW.
During daytime SW would work at that distance. But not always. SW is more variable and needs different bands for day and night and different bands for different distances. A single SW transmitter would be very limited, which is why the single low power SW transmitter was discontinued.

612 in Zurich would have been poor any time of day or night. It was even crap in the UK.
SW, at certain periods would have been a far superior signal. You are forgetting, or probably aren't aware, that RE used different frequencies at different times and beamed at different areas during their tests on SW.

I,m confused what you mean by a "single SW transmitter".
How many transmitters do they need?

Fuzzy Clam

cml387 wrote: »

If you had problems in Kerry, listening in Zurich must have been more difficult.

You said it!

Apogee

Would anyone have a link to the Media Network documentary?

Fuzzy Clam

Apogee wrote: »

Would anyone have a link to the Media Network documentary?

I have it on a PC I no longer use. If nobody else can supply it, I will try to dig it out tomorrow.

watty

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

612 in Zurich would have been poor any time of day or night. It was even crap in the UK.
SW, at certain periods would have been a far superior signal. You are forgetting, or probably aren't aware, that RE used different frequencies at different times and beamed at different areas during their tests on SW.

I,m confused what you mean by a "single SW transmitter".
How many transmitters do they need?

Night time it would be excellent. I've checked this myself the last few nights, no problem getting similar distance Skywave after dark on similar frequency. Skywave for closer locations is actually poorer due high angle of incidence. You will get Czech Radio easier after dark in Dundalk than MW Radio Ulster from Lisburn (if still running) as that will ONLY be Ground wave. Last time I checked Limerick was just far enough away that R. Ulster works with Skywave at night.

If you are going to transmit to more than one region on Shortwave you need to transmit on different frequencies at the same time. The Frequencies also need changed with season ad time of day too. You need a lot of aerials too. Ireland has never made a serious attempt at Shortwave Broadcasting. With Satellite and Internet now, it's maybe past the era for Shortwave Broadcasting, though some think that DRM (the radio can find best frequencies automatically a bit like RDS as the station transmits a list to try, and quality is more like low bit Rate DAB/poorer FM than traditional AM, much poorer on SW than MW) will revitalise Shortwave as well as LW & MW.


For daytime to Central Europe the 12MHz to 20MHz part of Shortwave band (depending on season and MUF) is far superior to MW. At Night time for 200km to 1500km distance approx the MW is more reliable. SW at night will do longer distance (world wide) but not so good for the shorter "in Europe distance" Less than 200km you can rely on Groundwave (but not at that distance on HF, Shortwave).

Maybe you are thinking of typical Modern radios and no external aerial and today's Urban interference due to TVs, SMPSUs and CFLs which didn't exist until many years after 1930s/1940s. However I have a good radio and at edge of village, so even without external aerial and earth (I have one of those too) I have conditions nearly like 1930s/1940s that don't exist in a Town or City or housing estate.

Fuzzy Clam

Apogee wrote: »

Would anyone have a link to the Media Network documentary?

End of the page

http://jonathanmarks.libsyn.com/2010/07

Fuzzy Clam

watty wrote: »

You will get Czech Radio easier after dark in Dundalk than MW Radio Ulster from Lisburn (if still running) as that will ONLY be Ground wave. Last time I checked Limerick was just far enough away that R. Ulster works with Skywave at night.

If you are going to transmit to more than one region on Shortwave you need to transmit on different frequencies at the same time.
.........some think that DRM (the radio can find best frequencies automatically a bit like RDS as the station transmits a list to try, and quality is more like low bit Rate DAB/poorer FM than traditional AM, much poorer on SW than MW) will revitalise Shortwave as well as LW & MW.

Perhaps listeners should try the Lisnagarvey transmitter. Much stronger than any Czech signal in Dundalk.

It is not unusual for a broadcaster to use a single transmitter and change frequency band and antenna beam as required.

Afaik DRM doesn't find freqs automatically.

watty

Lisnagarvey in Dundalk is pure groundwave. At night time, it's the same strong signal. Central Europe MW is only Skywave / Nightime.

DRM spec DOES inculde list of frequencies and suitably designed radios will use the best one. Not all broadcasters may be using the feature and not all radios have it.

Yes, frequency and beam are changed on the one transmitter. But for serving more than one region at the same time you need more than one transmitter. Ireland has never had a proper SW service.

Fuzzy Clam

You reply to arguments that don't exist.
Nobody stated that Ireland ever had a proper shortwave service.

Of course to serve more than one area then more than one Tx is required. Again, nobody said different.
You make out that it is a requirement for a proper service though. It is not.

I should really learn a lesson here as others have done over the years. YOU are always correct :rolleyes:
You even gave thanks to Mike when he gave incorrect info regarding the 100 Kw transmitter and yet choose to ignore evidence that contradicts him.

I've had enough of this silliness. You can live in your own little world where everything beyond your limited knowledge must be wrong.

Good luck to you.

watty

You are thinking of someone else.
I've tested DRM about FIVE years ago.
http://www.irts.ie/cgi/showarchive.cgi?050710.txt


Or else some confused conversation.

Mike 1972

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

On the contrary, bog is a poor conductor, so is a poor site for a Tx. (waits to be shot down by Watty and Mike)

Not an expert on bogs but isint there a lot of water in them ???

Apogee wrote: »

Would anyone have a link to the Media Network documentary?

http://jonathanmarks.libsyn.com/mn_20_march_1987_ireland_calling_on_shortwave
http://traffic.libsyn.com/jonathanmarks/MN.20.03.1987.Irelandcalling.mp3

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

I should really learn a lesson here as others have done over the years. YOU are always correct :rolleyes:.....I've had enough of this silliness. You can live in your own little world where everything beyond your limited knowledge must be wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stress_management

Antenna

rlogue wrote: »

When I was a small boy in the late 60s in London I remember my mother listening to Radio Eireann regularly. Years later when I moved to London I struggled to get a signal because Laser 558 and then Spectrum Radio swamped 567 from Tullamore.

Also I read (on the net) Capital Radio in London initially used an adjacent AM channel to RTE's then 566kHz from a temporary transmitter at a powerstation when it first went on air in 1973. Later (1975) moved to the opposite end of the MW band when a new MW site was commissioned (the Irish community in London must have been happy when that happened!).

from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/95.8_Capital_FM_London

IBA transmission tests commenced in January 1973 and Capital Radio went on air on 16 October 1973, ten days after LBC, using the following FM and AM frequencies: 95.8 MHz FM from the Croydon transmitter station and 557 kHz (539 m) MW from London Transport's Lots Road Power Station, Chelsea. The medium wave frequency and location were temporary sites as the then new high-powered medium wave station at Saffron Green, Barnet was incomplete.

Attached is the letter from the sindo, and its also here:
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/ulicks-radio-daze-2527388.html

Mike 1972

Radio Veronica were adjacent to RTE as well for much of the early seventies. Caroline were there for a while as well although I gather (unlike laser) the audio bandwidth on their 558/576 transmissions was fairly restricted for much of the time due to aerial constraints.

Many Caroline fans claim that 558 was allocated to spectrum solely in order to jam Caroline.

Kinda makes one wonder why RTE didnt open a LW transmitter in the 1970's instead of the site change/power increase on MW

Fuzzy Clam

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Not an expert on bogs but isint there a lot of water in them ???

I read an informative article some years ago while researching antenna preformance and from recollection it stated that minerals in the ground affect how well it works. Boggy ground is less effective than good agricultural land which in turn is less effective than salt water. Well we all know about salt water.:)

Naturally bog land is better than arid land.

Incidently, I have heard that the reason that LW is not used in the USA is because of poor ground wave due to the quality of the land there. This may be BS of course.

I've also seen it suggested on another forum that MF signals here don't travel as well as in Britain (same power) for the same reason. Again, could be rubbish.

Mike 1972

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

Incidently, I have heard that the reason that LW is not used in the USA is because of poor ground wave due to the quality of the land there. This may be BS of course..

Sounds like BS TBH. The US is a very big place. the "quality of land" is qoing to vary widely from one part of the country to another. Id imagine the levels of thunderstorm activity would be more of an issue (particularly in the South) but then again in Australia there was serious consideration given for a while back in the 1930's to putting the ABC stations on LW (in order to reach the outback) although in the end they decided on a mixture of MW and SW.

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

I've also seen it suggested on another forum that MF signals here don't travel as well as in Britain (same power) for the same reason. Again, could be rubbish.

Only speculating but I would imagine band overcrowding would be more of an issue in Britain (and even more so on much of the continent) than ground conductivity.

Fuzzy Clam

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Only speculating but I would imagine band overcrowding would be more of an issue in Britain (and even more so on much of the continent) than ground conductivity.

Ah. Misunderstanding.
I mean a tx with a given power in Ireland does not seem to cover as great an area as an equivalent tx in Britain. e.g. 252 v 198 ground wave.

watty

On the same frequency and power the coverage is the same. 198 goes a bit further because it's a lower frequency.

Fuzzy Clam

watty wrote: »

On the same frequency and power the coverage is the same. 198 goes a bit further because it's a lower frequency.

Only if soil conductivity is the same which cannot be assumed.

In the States the FCC use detailed soil conductivity maps to aid in calculating transmitter power required to cover different areas.

If Ireland has a greater area covered by bog then coverage will be reduced.

Even if the txs are equal power, the earth resistance may be higher at one installation which will also affect antenna efficiency.

Would be interesting to see accurate readings of each transmitters signal at equal distances.

Now to go back to my hobby of splitting hairs.....

watty

Over the Whole of Ireland or UK there is no significant difference at 198KHz

The weather and time of day has much greater effect.

icdg

Okay, stop the sniping or I will close the thread.

Fuzzy Clam

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Sounds like BS TBH. The US is a very big place. the "quality of land" is qoing to vary widely from one part of the country to another. Id imagine the levels of thunderstorm activity would be more of an issue (particularly in the South)

Seems that LF propagation is very poor below 50 degrees latitude. Not sure why but nothing to do with thunderstorms. Several references to it on the net but details are scant.

Fuzzy Clam

watty wrote: »

Over the Whole of Ireland or UK there is no significant difference at 198KHz

The weather and time of day has much greater effect.

The BBC and RTE would have benefited from your expertise! :rolleyes:

When we make FIM (Field intensity measurements) of signals we do so at the same time of day with similar weather conditions. Weather actually has less affect then you may think. Time of day, more so.

Most amateurs, such as yourself, wouldn't have the equipment to carry out such measurements accurately.

Fuzzy Clam

watty wrote: »

You are thinking of someone else.
I've tested DRM about FIVE years ago.
http://www.irts.ie/cgi/showarchive.cgi?050710.txt


Or else some confused conversation.

OoooH, FIVE years ago. About 2 years after I built my first DRM transmitter. 500 watts.

rlogue

Fuzzy Clam stop this stupid sniping. You're only impressing yourself.

watty

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

When we make FIM (Field intensity measurements) of signals we do so at the same time of day with similar weather conditions. Weather actually has less affect then you may think. Time of day, more so.

Not daily weather (apart from extremely heavy rain, thunderstorms and hot dry dusty winds the create static), that only much affects VHF and up. But prolonged dry spell or prolonged wet weather has huge affect on many terrain. Time of day is the largest effect, DX LW particularly is badly affected around Dawn and Dusk as the skywave and groundwave can destructively add.

Seems that LF propagation is very poor below 50 degrees latitude. Not sure why but nothing to do with thunderstorms. Several references to it on the net but details are scant.

Putting your link(s) would be useful. Algeria is only 31 degree North and reception of it interferes with RTE in France and also parts of England, Maybe rlogue can comment?

Only Region 1 has LW AM Radio Broadcast. The USA uses almost the band for Navigational Beacons.
LW stations at locations below 50N
Deutschlandfunk 49 N
Europe 1 49N
Antena Satelor / Radio Romania 45N
Chaine 1 Algeria 31N
France Inter 47N
TRT Turkey 39N (x2 )
Turkey 38N
Kanal Uzbekiston 41N
Radio Kavkaz, Russia 45N
RAI, Italy 37N
Kyrgyzstan (closed) 43N
Azerbaijani Radio 1 40N
Tajikistan 38N
Radio Horizont, Bulgaria 42N
Turkmenistan 37N

LW is less affected by changes in or absolute ground conductivity than any other band.

Ground wave curves LW, MW & SW
http://www.itu.int/rec/R-REC-P.368-9-200702-I/en (100MBytes Word or PDF)

rlogue

I'm located in NW London. Algeria cannot be received in the daytime on 252 but can be heard under 252 at night although if the receiver is positioned properly Algeria can be nulled out to an extent on a reasonably good transistor radio.

Using a "proper" radio equipped with an earth and a simple long wire antenna like my Murphy B197 from 1952 gives me excellent reception of 252 during the day and still gives good reception at night but all my satelite equipment needs to be turned off first to eliminate electrical mush!

I also have an LW tuned loop antenna. If I use this at night I can eliminate Algeria. I was also able to use the tuned loop to pick up the DRM tests from RTE on a PC with a USB DRM tuner.

Fuzzy Clam

watty wrote: »

Putting your link(s) would be useful.

Not much point since the sites don't contain any more detailed info.

Google it.

Most of the stations you mention are close to 50 degrees.

Even if there are broadcasts below there, it does not mean that they are as efficient as say, here.

Fuzzy Clam

rlogue wrote: »

I'm located in NW London. Algeria cannot be received in the daytime on 252 but can be heard under 252 at night although if the receiver is positioned properly Algeria can be nulled out to an extent on a reasonably good transistor radio.

Using a "proper" radio equipped with an earth and a simple long wire antenna like my Murphy B197 from 1952 gives me excellent reception of 252 during the day and still gives good reception at night but all my satelite equipment needs to be turned off first to eliminate electrical mush!

I also have an LW tuned loop antenna. If I use this at night I can eliminate Algeria. I was also able to use the tuned loop to pick up the DRM tests from RTE on a PC with a USB DRM tuner.

Algeria can be heard under RTE even at 30 miles distant from the RTE transmitter.
How reliable was the DRM ?