Sexism in RTE Sports Coverage?

UrbanSea

I swear I think the two girls here are taking the piss at this stage. What utter nonsense.

I was going to multiquote and respond to many different points but it'd be pointless,I'd be multi quoting every single post they made in favour of what the OP said.
Morgans has summed it up more than sufficiently. OP there is no sexism whatsoever in the selection of men's sports over female sports.

Let's call a spade a spade. Can you think of any sport in the world where the top female sports person is better than their male counterpart?
Can you imagine how little revenue in advertising RTE would receive from broadcasting a female match?

And of course it's supply and demand. For example the ladies' camogie final on RTE every single year. Have you ever seen Croke Park even resembling full?
No. They could have it in Markeveizc Park here in Sligo and they might just about fill it,but they open up Croke Park just for that match(at a huge loss aswell I'd imagine).

The whole point of this thread is ridiculous.

MyKeyG

I think another poster hit the nail on the head. How much are these sports supported in body at the respective venues? Male sports ranging from GAA to Soccer to Rugby or whatever the case may be are played at the big venues and all well supported. They pack out your Aviva's, your Thomonds, your Croke Parks. Why should RTE waste time and money transmitting female sports when the games themselves command very little attendance?

whydoibother?

I don't dispute the fact that men are better at sports.
I equally don't dispute the fact that the selection of sports is demand-lead?

My questions to anyone who feels the current situation is acceptable are:
1. Do you think due to the social and health benefits of playing sports it is important to get girls interested?
2. If you do think that, is it appropriate that sports coverage continue to be demand-lead, or should some less popular women's events be screened to achieve this objective?

siopatmul

Thanks to all those (few) who support the idea of equality of output for women's sport on RTE and even the beach volley ball fan who at least tried to imbue his negative response with a sense of humour.
As for the rest of you, a quote from the great Michael Collins (who believed vehemently in equality of the sexes) comes to mind:
"God preserve us all from the small minds of the small-minded Irish people".
He was taking a swipe a de Valera at the time but the quote seems very relevant here.
Adieu.

Morgans

1. Yes
2. Ideally yes. Ive no problem with this argument. Ideally, lots more of womens sports would be covered, and a lot more of the special olympic type events would be televised also - even if they wouldnt pull in many viewers. Maybe there will be more scope when the digital channels come on stream, or the RTE website could be used. However, given that RTE are commonly criticised for not supporting Irish domestic football, and even the most popular sports (missing the Heineken Cup) to the level many fans want, it is in a bind. It makes sense to have the most popular programming on at primetime. Do RTE still cover the hockey finals, the basketball finals. I know it used to on Sports Stadium - which died a death due to low viewers. I think RTE covering women's sport and placing it on the digital channels, at unsuitable times or on the RTE website, some would still see it as evidence of sexism to some who want to see it.

Morgans

siopatmul wrote: »

Thanks to all those (few) who support the idea of equality of output for women's sport on RTE and even the beach volley ball fan who at least tried to imbue his negative response with a sense of humour.
As for the rest of you, a quote from the great Michael Collins (who believed vehemently in equality of the sexes) comes to mind:
"God preserve us all from the small minds of the small-minded Irish people".
He was taking a swipe a de Valera at the time but the quote seems very relevant here.
Adieu.

Yeah, Be emboldened. You are right. Those who agree with you are right. Every else who didnt has a small mind. On a public forum, where you ignored all of those who had rightful objections to your opinion, you didnt try to rebut those. You're still right and every one else is wrong, Despite not answering any of the objections or retracting your utterly ludicrous statement that it was an Andy Gray type attitude that stopped women's sport being on RTE. But enjoy the beautiful feeling of superiority that comes with never having to question yourself or to adjust your position. I look forward to future evidence that you took nothing on board from this thread and you rehashing this arguement some time in the future. Thank you.

MyKeyG

siopatmul wrote: »

Thanks to all those (few) who support the idea of equality of output for women's sport on RTE and even the beach volley ball fan who at least tried to imbue his negative response with a sense of humour.
As for the rest of you, a quote from the great Michael Collins (who believed vehemently in equality of the sexes) comes to mind:
"God preserve us all from the small minds of the small-minded Irish people".
He was taking a swipe a de Valera at the time but the quote seems very relevant here.
Adieu.

Exactly you're being a big baby because people have disagreed with you. You can ride around on your high horse all you want but people have more than shown sufficient evidence why RTE cannot afford to showcase Male and Female sporting events equally. It's nothing to do with sexism or narrow minds. It's to do with practicality. Have you any idea how much it costs to produce and transmit a sporting event? Not only that but mens sport draw the bigger sponsors whom RTE are required to honour by showcasing the events they sponsor.


I'll make you a deal. When a ladies senior football final sells out Corke Park like a mens final I'll agree RTE's obligation to equal transmission.

whydoibother?

Morgans wrote: »

1. Yes
2. Ideally yes. Ive no problem with this argument. Ideally, lots more of womens sports would be covered, and a lot more of the special olympic type events would be televised also - even if they wouldnt pull in many viewers. Maybe there will be more scope when the digital channels come on stream, or the RTE website could be used. However, given that RTE are commonly criticised for not supporting Irish domestic football, and even the most popular sports (missing the Heineken Cup) to the level many fans want, it is in a bind. It makes sense to have the most popular programming on at primetime. Do RTE still cover the hockey finals, the basketball finals. I know it used to on Sports Stadium - which died a death due to low viewers. I think RTE covering women's sport and placing it on the digital channels, at unsuitable times or on the RTE website, some would still see it as evidence of sexism to some who want to see it.

I agree with you and I don't think the current situation is evidence of sexism, but I do think it's a problem that needs to be addressed. I wouldn't personally be offended if women's sport had less prime-time slots until it becomes popular, because I will of course accept that running TV stations is a commercial exercise, and demand has to be taken into account in some way.

I'd like to see some more women's sports though. You mention hockey. I'd love to see the odd hockey match because I played it at school, I understand the sport fully and there is some realistic prospect of me joining a club and taking an interest. Contrast that with today's rugby, I'm delighted Ireland won. I know it's popular and I don't for a second begrudge them their prime-time slot, but you'll never find me in a scrum! It's not the most feminine sport despite the fact that many girls play and enjoy it (and good luck to them).

Morgans

It is a tricky one. I dont know if there are many around now, but I know that Sports Stadium back in the day used to give a lot of time to less popular sports, and latterly programs like OB Sport used to look at the less mainstream, both men and women. Both generally suffered from poor ratings. I do think there would be a market for an hour long weekly women's sport magazine-style program and would serve the public broadcast remit as well as being interesting to all sports fans. I think there is a similar argument to be made by supporters of all the less popular sports. Everyone gets interested in Grainne Murphy when its the Olympics but wouldn't cross the road to a Swim meet.

whydoibother?

Morgans wrote: »

It is a tricky one. I dont know if there are many around now, but I know that Sports Stadium back in the day used to give a lot of time to less popular sports, and latterly programs like OB Sport used to look at the less mainstream, both men and women. Both generally suffered from poor ratings. I do think there would be a market for an hour long weekly women's sport magazine-style program and would serve the public broadcast remit as well as being interesting to all sports fans. I think there is a similar argument to be made by supporters of all the less popular sports. Everyone gets interested in Grainne Murphy when its the Olympics but wouldn't cross the road to a Swim meet.

Yes, a magazine-style program is a good idea, as was the suggestion of using the RTE website. There's no limit to the amount of minority sports that could be posted there. It has the potential for lots of underage stuff too, schools matches etc. At the end of the day, fans will seek out their sport if it's available in some format. (Childhood memories of Dad in the car in the driveway listening to the radio in peace) The trick is to introduce them to the sport in the first place, so that they can become fans.

The fact that you bring up swimming is also interesting because it's mainly an individual sport and a lot of these aren't as popular to watch as team sports for whatever reason. I assume it's because there isn't as much going on. Yet, not everybody is going to want to play a team sport for various reasons. It's often competitive, you have to get your place on the team to get a game, you have to be available for training at set times with the rest of the team etc. Promotion of individual and less popular sports is necessary to let people who are turned-off by mainstream sports know they have options and get more of the population playing sport. I could see the potential for great use of new media for this. Of course I'm not knocking the traditional and popular GAA, soccer etc., they are great things to be involved in, they are rightly popular and should retain prominence on TV.

siopatmul

Boards.ie has a reputation for intelligent debate and I'm glad to see that since I left here, the quality of the debate on this issue has improved.
To those of you who have discussed the popularity of women's sports and its lack, the point is that if women's sports were on television more often, their popularity would increase.
RTE's coverage is lopsided in favour of men, therefore it is sexist. They make no attempt to redress this imbalance, year after year and this situation MUST change.
I agree with those who say that encouraging women to play different types of sports would have huge health benefits for women and young girls. Apart from anything else, RTE are failing in their duty to promote and encourage women in this regard.

srfc19

siopatmul wrote: »

RTE's coverage is lopsided in favour of men, therefore it is sexist. .

RTE's soap coverage is lopsided in favour of women, therefore it is sexist.
RTE's fashion coverage is lopsided in favour of women, therefore it is sexist.
RTE's afternoon shows coverage is lopsided in favour of women, therefore it is sexist.

Do you not see how ridiculous your argument is? It is all about supply and demand, if you think women's sport would ever have even a tiny percentage of the support of men's sport you are seriously misguided.

Morgans

Morgans wrote: »

But enjoy the beautiful feeling of superiority that comes with never having to question yourself or to adjust your position. I look forward to future evidence that you took nothing on board from this thread and you rehashing this arguement some time in the future. Thank you.

It didn't take long.

UrbanSea

The line srfc highlighted is the most ridiculous statement.
Talk about tunnel vision from the OP,you just cannot face even the smallest possibility that you're wrong.

RandolphEsq

The main point was in a post above; that women generally won't watch sport because of their general lack of interest in watching sport.

Although, women's golf has unfortunately taken off since they were allowed play golf so it might be a good idea to show highlights of women's golf competitions on RTE. Have female members of the panel and turn it into an hour weekly show covering amateur and 'professional' women's golf.

I use golf as an example but it might work for other more popular women's sports, maybe beach volleyball?

UpTheSlashers

Mens sport is more popular. Simple. Even most women would rather watch/attend a mens football/rugby match than the womens equivalent. There was c. 80,000 at each of (mens) All-Ireland finals last year. Amongst those figures were tens of thousands of women. How many were at the womens All-Ireland finals?
The fact of the matter is that the airtime for womens sport reflects the interest.
And this "50/50 gender population spread" argument is pure bollocks. Im sure there is a considerable portion of the population over 50 years old. Does that mean there should be more airtime given to sporting events involving the over 50's? Give me a break :rolleyes:

siopatmul

The comparison between RTEs daytime output and its audience is flawed, especially as daytime shows usually have one male presenter, fashion designers are often male, chefs are usually male, consumer experts are sometimes male and health professionals who contribute on these are also often male.
The main audience may be women but not exclusively so. Men contribute to these shows and air their views on these shows as often as women sometimes more so - therefore they are not excluded in the way women are in both sports coverage and contributions.
Go back to the drawing board and try to come up with a better argument if you believe daytime RTE output sets the balance right. It doesn't.

UrbanSea

The presenters are male to attract females viewers. Will men tune in to watch Daithi O Se? Don't think so.
Some men are better fashion designers yes,that doesn't mean men are going to tune in to watch a programme on female's clothes because a man designed them.
Men give their opinions on these topics because they affect women but men are in positions of power relating to these issues e.g politicians.


So do you think RTE should include a female presenter on the Champions League for example?
Look at Tracy Piggott on the racing,a female in a position of power in the sports. She's brutal,couldn't remember Pathfork's name the other week when questioning his trainer.

Bonavox

Off The Rails is presented by three women, and no men. Xpose is hosted by four women, and has a history of only one man out of its host of previous presenters. As a man, I take offense to this, and am utterly shocked by how sexist some women are.

Morgans

siopatmul wrote: »

The comparison between RTEs daytime output and its audience is flawed, especially as daytime shows usually have one male presenter, fashion designers are often male, chefs are usually male, consumer experts are sometimes male and health professionals who contribute on these are also often male.
The main audience may be women but not exclusively so. Men contribute to these shows and air their views on these shows as often as women sometimes more so - therefore they are not excluded in the way women are in both sports coverage and contributions.
Go back to the drawing board and try to come up with a better argument if you believe daytime RTE output sets the balance right. It doesn't.

I had a look at the sports sections in several Sunday papers yesterday. Amazing to see that the news reported in them covered the premiership (male dominated) six nations rugby (male dominated) Irish GAA (male dominated) superbowl (american football, male dominated) I think its a disgrace that you single out RTE for this Andy Gray type attitude and not the entire media, all papers, all sports departments. Im beginning to wonder if there is a conspiracy out there.

For someone who throws around serious accusations about the RTE sports department, its clear that you aren't aware that there are many females contributor, commentators and presenters - exactly the same argument you used to suggest that afternoon shows are used more by men than women to air their views. Feel free to keep going with this.

I also had a look at my girlfriend's Heat magazine and I didnt see Male sports mentioned once. it was the same with the Sunday lifestyle type supplements. Are all magazines as sexist as this?

Morgans

UrbanSea wrote: »

The presenters are male to attract females viewers. Will men tune in to watch Daithi O Se? Don't think so.
Some men are better fashion designers yes,that doesn't mean men are going to tune in to watch a programme on female's clothes because a man designed them.
Men give their opinions on these topics because they affect women but men are in positions of power relating to these issues e.g politicians.


So do you think RTE should include a female presenter on the Champions League for example?
Look at Tracy Piggott on the racing,a female in a position of power in the sports. She's brutal,couldn't remember Pathfork's name the other week when questioning his trainer.

Joanne Cantwell, Evanne Ni Cuileann, Jacqui Hurley, Tracey Piggott are utterly irrelevant. I'd guess that the OP couldnt pick them out of a line-up, but nevermind, given that this thread was started on the back of watching an ad. If it came from a sports fan, it would have far greater weight. Whydoibother? showed how a sports fan can argue cogently on the matter without calling RTE and by extension all sports departments, all media as sexist. Again, Im not holding my breath for the OP to adjust her position regardless of evidence.

irishh_bob

anytime i find myself watching a RTE sports report on tv , its usually a female reporter at the helm , women are well represented IMO on rte sport

uvox

Generally, there is far too much sport on the telly, but especially in the newspapers (look at the amount Sunday Tribune and Village Magazine used to sink into it. Lesson there). That said, if you're going to have this stuff on the telly at all, then it should be balanced. Camogie, women's marathon, and the rest should be covered. Just look at the lousy coverage given to Tracy Taylor until recently, by comparison.

The BAI is not the place to pursue it. Take it up with the broadcasters and also election candidates who write the checks for RTE too.

whydoibother?

irishh_bob wrote: »

anytime i find myself watching a RTE sports report on tv , its usually a female reporter at the helm , women are well represented IMO on rte sport

There's a big difference between covering women's sports and allowing women to talk about men's sports.

dollyjam

Sexism in the Dáil...LOL!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFFf8TW3E9Q

Lapin

There isn't enough time to cover more women's sport.

Because most of the other programming on the box is already aimed at women.

Daytime TV, Soaps, Judge Julie, Lifestyle shows, Celebrity this and that, Rachel Allen (and everyone else) cooking stuff, Ally McBeal, Pottery programmes, Shopping Channels, Chick flicks, Programmes about babies, Birds of a Feather, Oprah and a whole lot more.....

In fact, its a wonder they manage to squeeze enough time in for the few measly hours of sport that us poor blokes get to see at all.

And you don't hear us complaining when they show the women's doubles final at Wimbledon, or Katie Taylor smashing some Cuban birds head in.

PeakOutput

womens sport is on tv all the time just not rte

im sure you could easily compare the viewing figures of the womens soccer on skysports or eurosport to the mens soccer on the same stations

or the womens tennis that eurosport shows

or the womens golf

you can compare the viewing figures of the wnba with the nba fairly simply but ill give you a hint, there is no comparison.

im sorry (actually im not sorry) but given two options, one, watch men play a sport and the other watch women play it i ( and i feel most people) would pick the men because generally they are faster stronger and more skilled and that makes it more entertaining.

there is simply not the demand for womens sport on rte and i imagine the main reason for that is that most of the people who care enough about to want to see womens sport as well have tv packages with channels that show womens sport

mikom

Time to take this issue up with my elected representatives....... you know the ones..... where 95% of them happen to be male.

Bubs102

Gymnastics aside, men are better to watch at pretty much every sport. Why the **** would they show womens sport if the male counterpart is there to watch.

And why is everyone being so polite?

Amazotheamazing

I'd take issue with the idea that by televising women's sports they would somehow become more popular, or at any rate, more participated in.

For example, RTE has been showing hurling and rugby since RTE was established, but outside of select areas neither sport has mass participation in Ireland. You could draw a line from Galway to Dublin on a map and there would be very, very few good hurling teams north of it. It's essentially a sport for the counties south of that line, and Antrim. Other counties have teams but it's not really a mainstream sport.

Wrt to rugby, again, it's been on RTE since RTE began but it's only since professionalism allowed for greater resources in investment in facilities that rugby began to break it's urban strongholds. I know there's plenty of rural clubs but these tend to be of lesser priority to soccer and football in the same way that there is hurling north of the Galway Dublin motorway.

So, if two massively popular sports to watch (virtually every man i know likes watching both sports) still can't break out of their strongholds, despite massive media coverage, why would women's sport be any more successful? In the areas where rugby and hurling are popular it's because it's part of the community. Hurling is close to a religion in Munster, rugby may as well be the religion in Limerick city. If tv stopped showing matches of either tomorrow, the clubs would still survive because it's what people do, it's part of their lives.

I think you have cause and effect in this scenario confused. You seem to suggest that because it's not televised, it's not popular whereas it's clear it's not televised because it's not popular. Television is reflecting people's interest, not the cause of them.

You are blaming sexism in RTE for a far more fundamental problem in Irish life, how do we get girls and women interested in participating in sport? Do our schools encourage girls enough, do they offer enough sports that girls actually want to play? Increase women's interest in sport and you'll see an increase of it on television.