Gym work

stellios · 04-02-2011 5:42pm #1

I have been doing 5x5 for 5 weeks now, BP, Squat, shoulder press, lat pull down. (3 times a week), has changed by body. back training for GAA twice a week so just gonna do one night a week in the gym. Any reason i shouldnt?

The Guvnor · 05-02-2011 8:09am

No.

The weights are very important for helping your on field performance.

Obviously try not to do your weights the night before a game etc.

Maybe also alter the weights as the season progresses.

Some of the posters here would be well clued into weights and how the impact re GAA

gymsoldier · 05-02-2011 10:28am

stellios wrote: »

(3 times a week)

Am I right in thinking you're doing the same program three times a week?

stellios · 05-02-2011 12:36pm

gymsoldier wrote: »

Am I right in thinking you're doing the same program three times a week?

yes the same but increasing weight each week

Frogdog · 05-02-2011 3:35pm

Off season 3 times a week is perfect, but obviously now that you're in pre-season training you should do at least 1 session a week, to help keep your strength up.

I presume you have GAA training twice a week with a game at the weekends?

Any week that you don't have a game, try add in a second weights session.

Probably best to do the weights session the day after your training, and maybe at least a day before the next GAA training/game.

gymsoldier · 05-02-2011 5:08pm

stellios wrote: »

yes the same but increasing weight each week

Id consider that over training in my books. The same heavy movements three times a week, leaves no recovery time for the muscles.

Frogdog · 05-02-2011 5:54pm

gymsoldier wrote: »

Id consider that over training in my books. The same heavy movements three times a week, leaves no recovery time for the muscles.

I'd disagree with you.

However you may not be familiar with the actual program (Stronglifts) - it's 2 different workouts, split between 3 non-consecutive days, as far as I'm aware. So there's plenty of time for your muscles to repair and recover.

gymsoldier · 05-02-2011 6:18pm

gymsoldier wrote: »

Am I right in thinking you're doing the same program three times a week?

stellios wrote: »

yes the same but increasing weight each week

The OP is not changing the workout though as far as I've gathered, ie. Bench pressing, squating etc. three times a week. Would you not think doing three days of heavy squats (and the rest) three times a week is over training?

Frogdog · 05-02-2011 8:21pm

gymsoldier wrote: »

The OP is not changing the workout though as far as I've gathered, ie. Bench pressing, squating etc. three times a week. Would you not think doing three days of heavy squats (and the rest) three times a week is over training?

In short, no.

I did Starting Strength for a while and it was great for increasing strength/building muscle. Particularly as I was a beginner. That program requires you to squat heavy 3 times a week also, as well as doing the bench press, deadlift, shoulder press and power clean. I had no problem with overtraining etc., as long as I ate well and slept well. A day in between was sufficient for recovery.

I'm now doing Olympic weightlifting 3 times a week, and as well as all the leg work involved in snatches and clean & jerks, I finish off my session with either front squats or back squats every time.

Have a read of the Starting Strength wiki and see for yourself:

http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Starting_Strength_Wiki

gymsoldier · 05-02-2011 8:27pm

Frogdog wrote: »

In short, no.

I did Starting Strength for a while and it was great for increasing strength/building muscle. Particularly as I was a beginner. That program requires you to squat heavy 3 times a week also, as well as doing the bench press, deadlift, shoulder press and power clean. I had no problem with overtraining etc., as long as I ate well and slept well. A day in between was sufficient for recovery.

I'm now doing Olympic weightlifting 3 times a week, and as well as all the leg work involved in snatches and clean & jerks, I finish off my session with either front squats or back squats every time.

Have a read of the Starting Strength wiki and see for yourself:

http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Starting_Strength_Wiki

Im going to non argumentatively disagree. I feel that one day rest is no where near enough recovery for muscle fibres, and more importantly, the CNS. I dont think training a certain muscle group hard three times a week is a good idea at all.

Frogdog · 05-02-2011 8:43pm

gymsoldier wrote: »

Im going to non argumentatively disagree. I feel that one day rest is no where near enough recovery for muscle fibres, and more importantly, the CNS. I dont think training a certain muscle group hard three times a week is a good idea at all.

No problem. That's fair enough, I wasn't trying to be argumentative either, for what it's worth. But you do get two night's sleep in between each session, and I find/believe nights to be better than days for recovery. The Starting Strength program was created by a coach in the States who I think knows his stuff on strength training, and I'm also being coached by a very respectable coach in the Olympic weightlifting at the moment, so on that basis my recommendation to the OP is to keep on trucking. It's fair enough if you disagree - it wouldn't be much of a forum if we all agreed!

Sorry off straying slightly off topic OP!

gymsoldier · 06-02-2011 11:26am

Frogdog wrote: »

No problem. That's fair enough, I wasn't trying to be argumentative either, for what it's worth. But you do get two night's sleep in between each session, and I find/believe nights to be better than days for recovery. The Starting Strength program was created by a coach in the States who I think knows his stuff on strength training, and I'm also being coached by a very respectable coach in the Olympic weightlifting at the moment, so on that basis my recommendation to the OP is to keep on trucking. It's fair enough if you disagree - it wouldn't be much of a forum if we all agreed!

Sorry off straying slightly off topic OP!

Ah sure we'll agree to disagree I guess ha

gymsoldier · 06-02-2011 11:30am

stellios wrote: »

I have been doing 5x5 for 5 weeks now, BP, Squat, shoulder press, lat pull down. (3 times a week), has changed by body. back training for GAA twice a week so just gonna do one night a week in the gym. Any reason i shouldnt?

And back to the original question lol. How long is you're typical Offseason, Preseaon, and Inseaon?

stellios · 07-02-2011 8:41am

gymsoldier wrote: »

And back to the original question lol. How long is you're typical Offseason, Preseaon, and Inseaon?

did 3 times a week for 5 weeks off sesion. back training GAA twice a week now, one nite in gym. Will prob stop gym when games start.(Start of march) do not much gym time left anyway. BTW lifting that heavy Squat 40kg (only started 2 weeks ago because no power cage) BP 60kg Shoulder press 40kg

g'em · 07-02-2011 10:20am

gymsoldier wrote: »

Im going to non argumentatively disagree. I feel that one day rest is no where near enough recovery for muscle fibres, and more importantly, the CNS. I dont think training a certain muscle group hard three times a week is a good idea at all.

It all depends tbh, especially with regard to the CNS. It depends on the athletes' history, it depends on the current training program, it depends on their lifestyle, it depends on their volume tolerance, it depends on so many things that outright black and white statements like that can't really be made

My own experience with in-season athletes is that they can very comfortably do two low-volume, medium intensity s&c sessions on top of 2-3 training sessions a week, but the gym work is tailored to their needs. Each session would involve a weightlifting movement, a PC movement, a pull, a push and leg work. I don't know enough about 5*5 to say if that particular program is conducive to sports (my inkling is that it isn't though?).

Going back to your statement I personally would disagree with it in more instances than I'd agree with it - a conditioned athlete with good volume tolerance will quite easily be able to train on three, four or even five consecutive days as long as their program is designed to be able to do so. You're obviously not going to be working up to max each time but with varied volume/ intensity it's quite do-able.

gymsoldier · 07-02-2011 7:34pm

g'em wrote: »

Going back to your statement I personally would disagree with it in more instances than I'd agree with it - a conditioned athlete with good volume tolerance will quite easily be able to train on three, four or even five consecutive days as long as their program is designed to be able to do so. You're obviously not going to be working up to max each time but with varied volume/ intensity it's quite do-able.

I understand where your coming from, but not matter who the athlete, I would not advise working the same muscle that many days in a row, or week. Example: Would you have someone doing heavy biceps curls three, five, days a week? My main concern is the workout load on the same muscle group over and over again is the same week. As like my example.

gymsoldier · 07-02-2011 7:38pm

stellios wrote: »

did 3 times a week for 5 weeks off sesion. back training GAA twice a week now, one nite in gym. Will prob stop gym when games start.(Start of march) do not much gym time left anyway. BTW lifting that heavy Squat 40kg (only started 2 weeks ago because no power cage) BP 60kg Shoulder press 40kg

No no, like is your offseason September to Febuary kinda thing? What months does the GAA season start and end (matches etc.). If we know this we can periodize the year for you.

Sangre · 07-02-2011 10:13pm

gymsoldier wrote: »

Im going to non argumentatively disagree. I feel that one day rest is no where near enough recovery for muscle fibres, and more importantly, the CNS. I dont think training a certain muscle group hard three times a week is a good idea at all.

In respect of beginners I'd disagree for two reasons:

Firstly, I don't beginners would be shifting enough weight 2-3x/week to be negatively affecting CNS and their recovery times.

Secondly, if there is any negative effect (probably minor) this is offest by the benefit to the beginner of practicising compound lifts and movements. I think a beginner is better off squating 3x/week to learn form, technique and hard work. If this slightly affects CNS recovery, so be it. I think he'll be a better squatter etc, in the long wrong.

Of course, this simple 3x/week changes once you start shifting any significant weight and you need to be more careful about your gym planning.

stellios · 08-02-2011 8:36am

gymsoldier wrote: »

No no, like is your offseason September to Febuary kinda thing? What months does the GAA season start and end (matches etc.). If we know this we can periodize the year for you.

2010:. Off season September to Dec. 2011 Pre-season Jan to second weekend in March. So from march to september/october will be training twice a week with game at weekend. Although because of the inability of the GAA to schedule games der will be a significant break from games in June, July August

Hanley · 08-02-2011 9:32am

g'em wrote: »

It all depends tbh, especially with regard to the CNS. It depends on the athletes' history, it depends on the current training program, it depends on their lifestyle, it depends on their volume tolerance, it depends on so many things that outright black and white statements like that can't really be made

....

Going back to your statement I personally would disagree with it in more instances than I'd agree with it - a conditioned athlete with good volume tolerance will quite easily be able to train on three, four or even five consecutive days as long as their program is designed to be able to do so. You're obviously not going to be working up to max each time but with varied volume/ intensity it's quite do-able.

^^This.

Saying multiple training sessions per week working the same movements/muscles will lead to over training is just wrong.

the drifter · 09-02-2011 12:56pm

Hanley wrote: »

^^This.

Saying multiple training sessions per week working the same movements/muscles will lead to over training is absolute horse sh!t.

i think the word your looking for is smolov

Molly · 09-02-2011 1:34pm

Frogdog wrote: »

Off season 3 times a week is perfect, but obviously now that you're in pre-season training you should do at least 1 session a week, to help keep your strength up.

I presume you have GAA training twice a week with a game at the weekends?

Any week that you don't have a game, try add in a second weights session.

Probably best to do the weights session the day after your training, and maybe at least a day before the next GAA training/game.

From my experience this is rubbish. You can quite easily do 3 weights sessions a week in season especially when you're not lifting anything heavy.

Frogdog · 09-02-2011 2:01pm

Molly wrote: »

From my experience this is rubbish. You can quite easily do 3 weights sessions a week in season especially when you're not lifting anything heavy.

First I'm arguing that 3 nights a week is acceptable off-season with one poster, now you want me to argue that it's acceptable in-season? :rolleyes:

Ok, so say you play GAA. You have training on Tuesdays and Thursdays with a game on Sunday. That's a pretty standard schedule for any GAA team at any level. You then go to the gym Monday, Wednesday and Friday. You rest on Saturday.

How are you going to make gains in either your GAA training or strength training, if you don't have any time to recover from either? Your cardio sessions affects your strength sessions and vice versa.

You're damn right when you say you won't be lifting heavy - you won't be able to if you tried!

gavney1 · 09-02-2011 2:20pm

I liked this thread at the start cause g'em, gymsoldier and frogdog seemed to be disagreeing politely (which is rare on this forum) and having an open discussion about something I find very interesting (esp as I'm someone who is no expert)

Now it seems that a couple of dismissive and aggro comments are going to lead this thread to descending into another one of those pointless arguing and insult-ridden threads which are all too common on this forum. And may eventually be locked.

Just my prediction

stellios · 09-02-2011 2:34pm

gavney1 wrote: »

I liked this thread at the start cause g'em, gymsoldier and frogdog seemed to be disagreeing politely (which is rare on this forum) and having an open discussion about something I find very interesting (esp as I'm someone who is no expert)

Now it seems that a couple of dismissive and aggro comments are going to lead this thread to descending into another one of those pointless arguing and insult-ridden threads which are all too common on this forum. And may eventually be locked.

Just my prediction

Hope your prediction is incorrect because i still dont know what i should be doing

bman · 09-02-2011 4:10pm

stellios wrote: »

Hope your prediction is incorrect because i still dont know what i should be doing

This is exactly why this forum would benefits so much from a thread system with upvotes so the most relevant replies would be upvoted and you could ignore the cruft (like pointless off topic arguments).

You could also ignore this post

stellios · 09-02-2011 4:23pm

bman wrote: »

This is exactly why this forum would benefits so much from a thread system with upvotes so the most relevant replies would be upvoted and you could ignore the cruft (like pointless off topic arguments).

You could also ignore this post

i intent to:p

jugger0 · 09-02-2011 4:40pm

BROZKNOWS... check the youtube channel. They squat several times everyday, and max most sessions if not all. However mixing weightlifting with say rugby, would be alot harder then just weightlifting everyday... IMO obviously... id much rather lift everyday then try to lift, then play rugby.

gavney1 · 09-02-2011 5:39pm

bman wrote: »

This is exactly why this forum would benefits so much from a thread system with upvotes so the most relevant replies would be upvoted and you could ignore the cruft (like pointless off topic arguments).

You could also ignore this post

or even better, if the mods could press a button and re-direct someone's off-topic post to the correct "argue threads" (which would be stickied)

The "Argue threads" would be

1. Squats - are they good for building your arms?
2. Squats - does doing them release GH and make you big all over?
3. Does it make a difference if I eat 10 small meals or 5 big meals?
4. Other squat-related arguments
5. Am I overtraining?

I realise this post is off-topic btw, I'm perfectly aware of my hypocrisy....

gymsoldier · 09-02-2011 6:59pm

stellios wrote: »

2010:. Off season September to Dec. 2011 Pre-season Jan to second weekend in March. So from march to september/october will be training twice a week with game at weekend. Although because of the inability of the GAA to schedule games der will be a significant break from games in June, July August

Are you doing any plyometric training currently as its your pre-season?

Hanley · 09-02-2011 9:38pm

gymsoldier wrote: »

Are you doing any plyometric training currently as its your pre-season?

Does he need to?

gymsoldier · 10-02-2011 1:36pm

Hanley wrote: »

Does he need to?

Yes

Remmy · 10-02-2011 1:40pm

gymsoldier wrote: »

Yes

Would that not be done in training?

Hanley · 10-02-2011 1:42pm

gymsoldier wrote: »

Yes

Why?

COH · 10-02-2011 2:39pm

Hanley wrote: »

Why?

Because plyo-anything is so focking hot right now... Get with the program man, it was in Mens-Muscle&Flexness

gymsoldier · 10-02-2011 5:16pm

Remmy wrote: »

Would that not be done in training?

It should be part of his training with his club.

Hanley wrote: »

Why?

Im sure youre more then aware what benefits plyometrics has with field sports, this is why rugby training is so far a head of GAA training. But GAA is slowy catching on.

Hanley · 10-02-2011 6:48pm

gymsoldier wrote: »

It should be part of his training with his club.

Why?

Im sure youre more then aware what benefits plyometrics has with field sports, this is why rugby training is so far a head of GAA training. But GAA is slowy catching on.

Rugby - strong guys training with weight from a relatively young age

GAA - weak guys with no real experience with compound movements

I'm generalising. But lets accept it as being broadly true.

Plyometrics are one of the LAST things GAA players need to worry about when you consider the above statements. They're so far behind the curve when it comes to resistance training that there's a hell of a lot of stages that you're proposing they skip.

I mean sure, if you want to have a high risk of injury and low level of return then fire away with recommending plyos to every Tom, Dick and Harry squatting 40kg.

Molly · 10-02-2011 6:59pm

Frogdog; what I was getting at was you should have advised him to keep lifting 3 times a week. It's not like lifting 3 times a week with his numbers will have any affect on his GAA training.

It's quite possible to lift heavy (3 times a week and train for a field sport twice a week with a match. There are enough people on this forum who do it.

gymsoldier · 10-02-2011 7:03pm

Hanley wrote: »

Why?

Rugby - strong guys training with weight from a relatively young age

GAA - weak guys with no real experience with compound movements

I'm generalising. But lets accept it as being broadly true.

Plyometrics are one of the LAST things GAA players need to worry about when you consider the above statements. They're so far behind the curve when it comes to resistance training that there's a hell of a lot of stages that you're proposing they skip.

I mean sure, if you want to have a high risk of injury and low level of return then fire away with recommending plyos to every Tom, Dick and Harry squatting 40kg.

GAA in the higher leauges (intercounty) isnt as far behind as you suggest, the majority are strong fit guys. I agree with you though in relation to the bottom division leauges. In bold; also true, but said plyometrics preseason was considering OP had made good hypertrophy in the offseason.

gymsoldier · 10-02-2011 7:06pm

stellios wrote: »

BTW lifting that heavy Squat 40kg (only started 2 weeks ago because no power cage) BP 60kg Shoulder press 40kg

I retract plyometric post as just stubbled upon missed post.

Hanley · 10-02-2011 7:14pm

gymsoldier wrote: »

I retract plyometric post as just stubbled upon missed post.

FAir play!

I actually went looking to see if he gave numbers before I said plyos were a bad idea

And I know the lads at an intercounty, and probably high club level too, are being well looked after. Regular club guys tho...

dantes87 · 10-02-2011 7:16pm

gymsoldier wrote: »

GAA in the higher leauges (intercounty) isnt as far behind as you suggest, the majority are strong fit guys. I agree with you though in relation to the bottom division leauges. In bold; also true, but said plyometrics preseason was considering OP had made good hypertrophy in the offseason.

Colm Cooper?
Being strong does not help GAA players as much as rugby players, the physical contact is only fractions of what it is in rugby.

There are lads playing intercounty that cannot squat at all and are very weak in gym context, I know a few of them.
Skill level and cardio are far more important to your performance on a pitch.
Weight training has it's place, but it is a contributing in a much smaller manner.

I think GAA is miles behind in terms of stregth, but this is because it is a different sports with different needs.

gymsoldier · 11-02-2011 11:36am

Hanley wrote: »

FAir play!

I actually went looking to see if he gave numbers before I said plyos were a bad idea

And I know the lads at an intercounty, and probably high club level too, are being well looked after. Regular club guys tho...

Ha so i was correct in thoery, wrong in practice

stellios · 15-02-2011 11:15am

Gym work

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