Where is the RDF going to end up?

Runner_11

Ok so its election time, in a months time we will have a new government in power, who it will be no one really knows, we can only speculate. What do people think will happen to the reserves i am a member for nearly nine years now and i have already seen alot of change from intergration to the possibility of serving overseas i am aware some lads have done so but a larger group had hoped to go over.

Anyway to sum up during these times of economic unrest the RDF has taken a hit, but will it come back stronger and in a new roll maybe?

Or will it be phased out over a period of time?

concussion

In my opinion it will be left to stagnate until the country has more money - I give it 5 years before anything positive happens. I also think that no polititian would go so far as to completely disband it, too much trouble, too many ex members. It's a shame because the cost to radically upskill the entire RDF is negligable really.

BuckJamesRogers

Even introducing basic fitness tests and interviews from before attestation would solve a lot of problems.

Coolbreeze2809

BuckJamesRogers wrote: »

Even introducing basic fitness tests and interviews from before attestation would solve a lot of problems.

And cost next to nothing. Probably save a lot of money in the long run too.

Tubsandtiles

I am going too be honest, as a member of the reserve and taking into account the current situation of the economy and PDF backlist of people wanting to join, I would say the smart thing to do would be to disband the RDF. While it is a very positive thing, after experiencing the high's of the RDF and lows/flaws, I would say disband it. Its costing the tax-payer and government too much money and while it breaks my heart to say it, it serves no purpose especially while we have the regular army/PDF.

The PDF will be there to carry out public duties. I hate to say it but the RDF carries no purpose only to train people, and very badly at times. The lack of fitness criteria/exams just shows how the RDF lacks any purpose again. My summary, the RDF carries no purpose and no argument could justify its existence anymore.

I do not mean to bring down the RDF, I have spent four great years in it, making some great friends and having great experiences. The lack of resources in it and training are a testament to its finish especially with the economic debt.

BuckJamesRogers

Tubsandtiles wrote: »

I am going too be honest, as a member of the reserve and taking into account the current situation of the economy and PDF backlist of people wanting to join, I would say the smart thing to do would be to disband the RDF. While it is a very positive thing, after experiencing the high's of the RDF and lows/flaws, I would say disband it. Its costing the tax-payer and government too much money and while it breaks my heart to say it, it serves no purpose especially while we have the regular army/PDF.

The PDF will be there to carry out public duties. I hate to say it but the RDF carries no purpose only to train people, and very badly at times. The lack of fitness criteria/exams just shows how the RDF lacks any purpose again. My summary, the RDF carries no purpose and no argument could justify its existence anymore.

I do not mean to bring down the RDF, I have spent four great years in it, making some great friends and having great experiences. The lack of resources in it and training are a testament to its finish especially with the economic debt.

You could disband it - at a cost.

Or upskill at a small cost and get some use out of the RDF. It would not be too tricky or too expensive a task if it were done right. But I guess that's the key issue. It probably would not be done right. Again.

concussion

Tubsandtiles wrote: »

I am going too be honest, as a member of the reserve and taking into account the current situation of the economy and PDF backlist of people wanting to join, I would say the smart thing to do would be to disband the RDF. While it is a very positive thing, after experiencing the high's of the RDF and lows/flaws, I would say disband it. Its costing the tax-payer and government too much money and while it breaks my heart to say it, it serves no purpose especially while we have the regular army/PDF.

How much does the RDF cost per year?

Tubsandtiles

concussion wrote: »

How much does the RDF cost per year?

Too be honest I don't have a number or cost but I am sure there is one somewhere. Taking into account camps per year with rate of pay per rank, (a private like myself could get anything up too (€400-500) for a week's camp, now take into account a senior NCO or officer. Then there is the cost of training weekends and days, transport, clothing. There is also promotion ( I don't think it is very high due to the economic troubles). There are many other hidden cost's. Can any one confirm if a RDF Officer gets a pension on retirement ?.

Runner_11

The RDF does not cost a hugh amount to run, the main overheads were Cadre staff who have now had the allowance cut. Grat was paid to just over 2,000 members this year i think that speaks for itself.

The RDF will not be on any political agenda for the election but once a party gets in they will be looking at the books and trying to justify value for money for every penny spent they have to make over 3bn in cuts this year...The RDF could go or be cut to a very small number.

What i would like to see happen is a huge revamp better resources and a role for the RDF what that could be im unsure at the moment. Fitness levels are not good and the level of training is not consistant enough.

There is just not enough money to upskill the RDF at the moment and we dont have a real purpose, I mean the civil defence provide more to the state then the RDF i think there really needs to be a very good reason to keep it.

Tubsandtiles

Runner_11 wrote: »

The RDF does not cost a hugh amount to run, the main overheads were Cadre staff who have now had the allowance cut. Grat was paid to just over 2,000 members this year i think that speaks for itself.

The RDF will not be on any political agenda for the election but once a party gets in they will be looking at the books and trying to justify value for money for every penny spent they have to make over 3bn in cuts this year...The RDF could go or be cut to a very small number.

What i would like to see happen is a huge revamp better resources and a role for the RDF what that could be im unsure at the moment. Fitness levels are not good and the level of training is not consistant enough.

There is just not enough money to upskill the RDF at the moment and we dont have a real purpose, I mean the civil defence provide more to the state then the RDF i think there really needs to be a very good reason to keep it.

I agree with you but the fact of the matter is, up-skilling would probably turn into a disaster and cost too much. Bringing fitness exams wouldn't change the fact it serves no point and public duties are there for the Pdf so there is no reason to continue it on.

In my opinion

Tubsandtiles wrote: »

Too be honest I don't have a number or cost but I am sure there is one somewhere. Taking into account camps per year with rate of pay per rank, (a private like myself could get anything up too (€400-500) for a week's camp, now take into account a senior NCO or officer. Then there is the cost of training weekends and days, transport, clothing. There is also promotion ( I don't think it is very high due to the economic troubles). There are many other hidden cost's. Can any one confirm if a RDF Officer gets a pension on retirement ?.

Yes an RDF Officer gets a very generous pension on retirement made up of about 97% of his overseas allowances earned while a commisioned officer of the Reserve! Non Commisioned overseas service is as you know non pensionable. RDF Officers are amongst the most valued Public Servants in this land ! As an RDF Officer of many years I look forward to my pension. Your 4 years of service have really enlightened you. Keep up the good work!

BuckJamesRogers

Tubsandtiles wrote: »

I agree with you but the fact of the matter is, up-skilling would probably turn into a disaster and cost too much. Bringing fitness exams wouldn't change the fact it serves no point and public duties are there for the Pdf so there is no reason to continue it on.

Well upskilling would enable us to do some duties :rolleyes:

There is potential for disaster, yes but if it is done right, it could be extremely effective.

goldie fish

The last question asked of th eMinister in the Dail last week did not bode well. The question asked if there were plans to disband the RDF, there was no answer as such just "lets wait for the VFM".

218. Deputy John Perry asked the Minister for Defence if he will ensure that the allowance paid to Permanent Defence Force cadre staff in respect of working in conjunction with the Reserve Defence Force will not be abolished in view of the financial hardship this will cause to many members; if he will ensure that the allowance is retained in view of the fact that it has been in existence for over 40 years; the future plans for the RDF should this allowance be abolished; if the RDF will also be abolished; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4575/11]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív): The allowance referred to in this question is a matter subject to litigation in the High Court. In those circumstances it would be inappropriate for me to comment on that portion of the question. A Value for Money review of the reserve is presently underway. It is expected that the findings of the review will contribute to the development of future plans for the reserve.

In my opinion

goldie fish wrote: »

The last question asked of th eMinister in the Dail last week did not bode well. The question asked if there were plans to disband the RDF, there was no answer as such just "lets wait for the VFM".

In fairness a similar answer can out last March to both Noel Grealish Galway West and Frank Feighan Roscommon South Leitrim regarding the Directorate Reserve being abolished and placed under D Training. VFM will always be final part of any PQ answer regarding future of RDF until it is done.

Poccington

BuckJamesRogers wrote: »

Well upskilling would enable us to do some duties :rolleyes:

There is potential for disaster, yes but if it is done right, it could be extremely effective.

Duties such as what? I've seen the numbers that parade for the RDF in my barracks, if they can't get people to turn up on parade nights well then quite frankly, I wouldn't trust them to turn up for and perform duties.

Anyway this is all pointless because the RDF are gonna be out my back garden digging OP's. Along with their Officers and the cushy pensions they get.... Or something.

BuckJamesRogers

Poccington wrote: »

Duties such as what? I've seen the numbers that parade for the RDF in my barracks, if they can't get people to turn up on parade nights well then quite frankly, I wouldn't trust them to turn up for and perform duties.

Anyway this is all pointless because the RDF are gonna be out my back garden digging OP's. Along with their Officers and the cushy pensions they get.... Or something.

Agreed. That's why upskilling needs to go along with a(nother) re-org. The last one didn't do half of what it should have. The reserve could be a lot better than what it is, but until the will is there to do something about it, it will stay as it is. I think this will happen later rather than sooner unfortunately.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a HUGE Privates pension to collect...after 3 years...

Tubsandtiles

This whole trying to justify the existence of the RDF anymore is really annoying, while I would rather see it still exist, it's a waste of time. All this up-skill chat is funny, up-skill the RDF to do what exactly ? , maybe up-skill so that they turn up for training nights, keep in step while marching and be confident with weapons. The point of up-skilling wouldn't change anything apart from the Economy's bank balance. No arguments here have given any reasons for the existence of the RDF anymore so if any one who is posting here to give reasons why it should not be finished, post something more than "We need to up-skill" the RDF etc, jokers .

BuckJamesRogers

Tubsandtiles wrote: »

This whole trying to justify the existence of the RDF anymore is really annoying, while I would rather see it still exist, it's a waste of time. All this up-skill chat is funny, up-skill the RDF to do what exactly ? , maybe up-skill so that they turn up for training nights, keep in step while marching and be confident with weapons. The point of up-skilling wouldn't change anything apart from the Economy's bank balance. No arguments here have given any reasons for the existence of the RDF anymore so if any one who is posting here to give reasons why it should not be finished, post something more than "We need to up-skill" the RDF etc, jokers .

And what do you suggest then?

A re-org is what's needed. As well as up-skilling.

Tubsandtiles

BuckJamesRogers wrote: »

And what do you suggest then?

A re-org is what's needed. As well as up-skilling.

The RDF be disbanded so money can be put more too use like more recruitment for the PDF

BuckJamesRogers

Tubsandtiles wrote: »

The RDF be disbanded so money can be put more too use like more recruitment for the PDF

Not sure that makes too much sense there mate. The PDF won't recruit above a certain number of people (say 10k) because the need for a massive Permanent force just isn't there. Same way there isn't a need for the Reserve as it is.

Tubsandtiles

BuckJamesRogers wrote: »

Not sure that makes too much sense there mate. The PDF won't recruit above a certain number of people (say 10k) because the need for a massive Permanent force just isn't there. Same way there isn't a need for the Reserve as it is.

I'm pretty sure it does make sense, and I'm pretty sure if the RDF was disbanded the limit to the amount of PDF would get up as there obviously would be more money to invest into the PDF

BuckJamesRogers

Tubsandtiles wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it does make sense, and I'm pretty sure if the RDF was disbanded the limit to the amount of PDF would get up as there obviously would be more money to invest into the PDF

It doesn't because they wont expand the PDF because there is no need for it. Why would you go to the cost of recruiting *insert number of people here* (recruiting would cost more money than the disbanded RDF IMO) when there's no jobs for them? Pointless, costly exercise.

Tubsandtiles

BuckJamesRogers wrote: »

It doesn't because they wont expand the PDF because there is no need for it. Why would you go to the cost of recruiting *insert number of people here* (recruiting would cost more money than the disbanded RDF IMO) when there's no jobs for them? Pointless, costly exercise.

...Shakes hand in the air with anger , RDF to be disbanded.

testicle

What will happen is that what was the establishment of the Integrated RDF will become the establishment of the new RDF, more or less. There will not be any stand alone RDF units any more.

BuckJamesRogers

testicle wrote: »

What will happen is that what was the establishment of the Integrated RDF will become the establishment of the new RDF, more or less. There will not be any stand alone RDF units any more.

Yep. Good step too IMO.

Skyhawk1990

Tubsandtiles wrote: »

...Shakes hand in the air with anger , RDF to be disbanded.

It's obvious from your posts here that you're anti-RDF even though you've spent the past "four great years" in it. Honestly if you have that much resentment against the organisation just leave. The RDF doesn't need people like you in its ranks! We need people that show up, pull their weight and are willing to do what they can!

What you can do now is stop trolling the thread and not post in it again and I'd ask others not to listen to you either cause you're not adding anything useful to the thread at all. By the way if you reply to this don't expect me to reply to you at all!

Endymion

The reserve defence forces is one of the very few outlets for people looking to discharge their civic duty, for that reason alone it's a good idea to keep. Yes there are charitable organisations people can join but they shouldn't be the only option. The reserve at it's very best instils civic duty, responsibility, leadership skill, loyalty and commitment. A reserve military force is, at it's core, a fundamentally good thing for a society to have. You can't just look at the budget sheets and ascribe value.

Also, while I don't have the figures to hand, last time I looked the reserve accounted for approximately ~.5% - 1% of total military budget. It's not like there's a lot of money ring fenced for the RDF, most of the training is carried out for free, in facilities that are army owned. You'd save an absolute pittance year on year by removing it and you'd have the cost of suddenly loosing all the reserve personel in the event of a national emegency such as foot and mouth, flooding and heavy snow fall. Or for national events such as the special Olympics. These are all circumstances in which the reserve has been deployed in recent years.

Poccington

Endymion wrote: »

You'd save an absolute pittance year on year by removing it and you'd have the cost of suddenly loosing all the reserve personel in the event of a national emegency such as foot and mouth, flooding and heavy snow fall. Or for national events such as the special Olympics. These are all circumstances in which the reserve has been deployed in recent years.

Snow fall? I didn't see a single member of the RDF being deployed during the recent snow, same goes for the flooding.

The Special Olympics really isn't a good enough excuse to keep what is essentially an organisation that is wandering around with no aim or use.

BuckJamesRogers

Poccington wrote: »

Snow fall? I didn't see a single member of the RDF being deployed during the recent snow, same goes for the flooding.

The Special Olympics really isn't a good enough excuse to keep what is essentially an organisation that is wandering around with no aim or use.

We weren't but it would have made more sense to deploy us in places (like around my area) where there is no PDF barracks less than an our away. Surely that would save money?

Poccington

BuckJamesRogers wrote: »

We weren't but it would have made more sense to deploy us in places (like around my area) where there is no PDF barracks less than an our away. Surely that would save money?

How? You'd still have to be rationed, given somewhere to sleep etc.

What would the point have been in using the RDF when we had troops already in place to do it? Apart from giving the RDF something to do?

My point still stands, people can't use snow of floods as a reason to keep the RDF when the RDF weren't used. If that's the case, why not just expand the Civil Defence? Instead of having a Reserve military organisation that serves no purpose?

BuckJamesRogers

Poccington wrote: »

How? You'd still have to be rationed, given somewhere to sleep etc.

What would the point have been in using the RDF when we had troops already in place to do it? Apart from giving the RDF something to do?

My point still stands, people can't use snow of floods as a reason to keep the RDF when the RDF weren't used. If that's the case, why not just expand the Civil Defence? Instead of having a Reserve military organisation that serves no purpose?

Would we really? Surely we could have just stayed at home after clearing snow? I live about a mile from the town, I could have walked if need be. 90% of the active members of my unit are the same.

I agree with you on certain points though. We don't serve a purpose as it stands, but we could potentially if the bloody will was there. The RDF has some very good bods and some awful ones. Same with every org.

Poccington

BuckJamesRogers wrote: »

Would we really? Surely we could have just stayed at home after clearing snow? I live about a mile from the town, I could have walked if need be. 90% of the active members of my unit are the same.

I agree with you on certain points though. We don't serve a purpose as it stands, but we could potentially if the bloody will was there. The RDF has some very good bods and some awful ones. Same with every org.

When the standy platoon's were in place, it was 24 hours in barracks. Lads weren't allowed go home.

Don't get me wrong, as a former member of the RDF I know there's good people in it but with the VFM Review going on and the state of the finances in the country, they're the kinda questions that are going to be asked. If proper answers can't be put forward apart from stuff like "Well, we did a bit at the Special Olympics" well then, the outcome may not be good.

Endymion

Poccington wrote: »

Snow fall? I didn't see a single member of the RDF being deployed during the recent snow, same goes for the flooding.

The Special Olympics really isn't a good enough excuse to keep what is essentially an organisation that is wandering around with no aim or use.

The flooding in Shannon, 2 years ago (?) saw them deployed. And I saw green berets out shovelling snow around Harolds cross. But Ok, I'll give you that, forget flooding, forget snow which may have been individual companies. It's very good of you to decide the special Olympics are of no use. I notice you avoided the comment about foot and mouth.

BuckJamesRogers

Poccington wrote: »

When the standy platoon's were in place, it was 24 hours in barracks. Lads weren't allowed go home.

Don't get me wrong, as a former member of the RDF I know there's good people in it but with the VFM Review going on and the state of the finances in the country, they're the kinda questions that are going to be asked. If proper answers can't be put forward apart from stuff like "Well, we did a bit at the Special Olympics" well then, the outcome may not be good.

Completely agree. But as a former member, surely you'd think that we can still offer something to the DF as a whole? Full integration (well, as much as possible) would be the best way forward IMO.

Tubsandtiles

Skyhawk1990 wrote: »

It's obvious from your posts here that you're anti-RDF even though you've spent the past "four great years" in it. Honestly if you have that much resentment against the organisation just leave. The RDF doesn't need people like you in its ranks! We need people that show up, pull their weight and are willing to do what they can!

What you can do now is stop trolling the thread and not post in it again and I'd ask others not to listen to you either cause you're not adding anything useful to the thread at all. By the way if you reply to this don't expect me to reply to you at all!

I'm not anti RDF, I'm anti towards it's purpose anymore. I'm not a troll and I do turn up too training nights and pull my weight, I take it serious as I want the military as a career. I obviously posted valid points to why I think it should be disbanded. The fact that I said I wish it would continue but should be disbanded for the best in a previous post shows I'm not anti RDF, please don't presume I am a troll just because I hold a strong opinion on something and "don't expect me to reply to this" as I am a narrow minded teenager .

Poccington

Endymion wrote: »

The flooding in Shannon, 2 years ago (?) saw them deployed. And I saw green berets out shovelling snow around Harolds cross. But Ok, I'll give you that, forget flooding, forget snow which may have been individual companies. It's very good of you to decide the special Olympics are of no use. I notice you avoided the comment about foot and mouth.

If they were out in Harolds Cross, they were out on their own backs because in all the briefs I recieved during the snow I never once heard of the RDF being deployed.

Well in all seriousness, the Special Olympics is no use if you want to provide a reason to keep a military Reserve in place.

Actually didn't spot the foot and mouth part but ok, I'll give you that one. One example of the RDF actually being used, apart from being used as a transport service during the Special Olympics.

Now, once again, offer me a reason why the RDF should continue to exist in it's current form? Especially with such little Overseas happening, PDF Units are now back to having decent numbers.

If people want to do their civic duty, there's the Garda Reserve and Civil Defence, two volunteer organisations that actually do something.

Seriously, the RDF could cease to exist tomorrow and nobody in the DF would notice. In it's current form, it serves absolutely no purpose to the DF at all. So now, tell me why it should be kept in it's current form?

Poccington

BuckJamesRogers wrote: »

Completely agree. But as a former member, surely you'd think that we can still offer something to the DF as a whole? Full integration (well, as much as possible) would be the best way forward IMO.

In it's current form, I honestly think it doesn't offer anything to the DF.

How many people qualified for Grat last year? What was accomplished by the RDF in the last year?

It needs to be either disbanded or else a whole new re-org(Again) and hope that it actually works.

BuckJamesRogers

Poccington wrote: »

In it's current form, I honestly think it doesn't offer anything to the DF.

How many people qualified for Grat last year? What was accomplished by the RDF in the last year?

It needs to be either disbanded or else a whole new re-org(Again) and hope that it actually works.

But that's what I've been highlighting in my above posts mate.

goldie fish

The last reorg failed, due to the influence of ministers and TDs looking after the parish pump, and ignoring the bigger picture. This left us with a situation where many unit hq's are miles from the barracks where the parent unit is based, and further again from where the HQ coy is based. Infantry units that were unfortunate enough to be integrated with Corps units were treated as second class citizens, and no courses were made available to their SNCOs to upskill and fill a role.
And now I hear there are attempts to cull officer numbers too, mostly to protect empires.

OS119

Endymion wrote: »

The flooding in Shannon, 2 years ago (?) saw them deployed. And I saw green berets out shovelling snow around Harolds cross. But Ok, I'll give you that, forget flooding, forget snow which may have been individual companies. It's very good of you to decide the special Olympics are of no use. I notice you avoided the comment about foot and mouth.

so far the only use of the RDF (and its only projected use) has been herding cows, filling sandbags, shovelling snow and showing tourists around Dublin.

can you give me three coherant reasons why an organisation who'se only use is manual labour and giving directions needs to be uniformed, why it needs rifles, and why it needs to be trained in Infantry tactics and the use of heavy weapons and artillery?

concussion

Tubsandtiles wrote: »

Its costing the tax-payer and government too much money

concussion wrote: »

How much does the RDF cost per year?

Tubsandtiles wrote: »

Too be honest I don't have a number or cost but I am sure there is one somewhere.

Jesus wept. How can you complain about the cost when you don't know what it is??

2009 figures show €6.75 million for all RDF pay, training, transport, rent of buildings and unit funds. That was when all Reservists were able to get 2 weeks paid training. Payments to cadre staff, who are members of the PDF and would be incorporated into their parent units if the RDF were disbanded, cost a further ~€22 million. Both the number of cadre and the allowances allowed to them have been cut since.

As a comparison, in 2007 the DF spent €31 million on barracks expenses, repairs and maintenance of lands.

OS119

on the other hand €6 million a year spent on the PDF would buy quite a lot of overseas exercises, a issued desert uniform for overseas work and enough DMR's and Minimi's to double the firepower of an Irish Infantry section going, or preparing to go, overseas.

personally, i would find it difficult to say that some 2,000 reservists spread across the infantry, Artillery, cavalry, engineers, signals, medical and logistics units with variable training and no deployment capability is worth more than the above to the the military capability of the state.

concussion

Objectively, why do we need a 10000 strong military c/w artillery and anti tank weapons to provide security against Republican paramilitaries?? Give the RDF the opportunity to train up for overseas deployment and allow it to work with the PDF. The UK has reservists in a war zone, Australia has big reserve contributions in Timor, there is no reason that Ireland can't do the same and allow us to expand (current economic situation notwithstanding) our overseas commitments while maintaining the 10% cap on numbers.

OS119

concussion wrote: »

Objectively, why do we need a 10000 strong military c/w artillery and anti tank weapons to provide security against Republican paramilitaries?? Give the RDF the opportunity to train up for overseas deployment and allow it to work with the PDF. The UK has reservists in a war zone, Australia has big reserve contributions in Timor, there is no reason that Ireland can't do the same and allow us to expand (current economic situation notwithstanding) our overseas commitments while maintaining the 10% cap on numbers.

there's no reason a reserve force couldn't - you could easily imagine a reserve force of 2,000 that supported a regular force of 6,000 and either acted as individual reinforcements for a deployment or where the reserve force feilded formed units that went on deployments in the same way as the USNG.

however getting, and keeping, reservists to a stage where they are willing and able to go overseas every 3 years is expensive, difficult and time consuming.

in the long term it would be cheaper to have 1 in 4 of your deployable forces as reservists, but in the short to medium term it would be cheaper and easier to just disband the reserve while having no impact on the military capability of the state. expensive and difficult, vs cheaper and easy: i'll give you three guesses, but you'll only need one....

concussion

The other option of course is to have a Reserve sufficiently trained to take a portion of the day to day security operations from the PDF. Combine this with an increase in the deployability from 10% to 15-20% of the Army and you get more PDF overseas along with a valid mission for the RDF. As the skill set in the Reserve increases over time you could then start to integrate RDF platoons within overseas Bn.'s.

OS119

you certainly could do - and it the long term it would be cheaper to do so - however in the short term not only would you need to budget for the start-up costs of a new, effective reserve, you'd have to retain that part of the PDF you are looking to replace while the RDF works up to effectiveness.

a fundamental problem with such a restructuring is both the outgoing 'voluntary overseas' contracts, and the relatively high age profile within the Army - this means that there is quite a large section of the Army that either won't deploy, or are to old/unfit to do so effectively. this puts a big dent in the aim of getting 25% or so of the Army available for deployment at any one time, and would, unfortunately, require some significant political action to resolve.

Nuttzz

the reserve are a load of sh1t and cant be trusted to do anything, the funkers can bearly turn up for training never mind important stuff like duties...

heard it before? since 1990 i've heard it plenty of times from the pdf, and to be honest they are not wrong, but lets be honest who is really responsible for the reserve?

Go far enough up the chain of command can you will see the black hats there.

Each OC RDF bde is a career pdf officer, if he has taken a sideline move to take a promotion to lt col before he retires and leaves at a higher pension point then that is a fundamental problem with the pdf, assignment to a reserve command appointment shouldbnt be a retirement village for pdf officers and SNCO's who wouldnt cut it in regular units.

the reserve is an example of how badly the pdf can run things when they want, senior officers let the SNCO cadres off with murder because they are only putting in the time with the reserve unit until the retire or feck off else where.

I know lots of lads who have left the reserve for the pdf and tell me the pdf training is much harder...no ****, what access does a reservist have to the 4 months of recruit training you did or the 6 month PNCO course.

The willing volunteers of the reserve are looked at with disdain because they are willing to training as a reservist but not sign up as a regular. Heres my story when i wanted to sign up in 1990 I had to join a waiting list and by the time the pdf started to recruit I was too old, so am I not good enough to be a regular because im 5 months older than the limit?


All organisations take their lead from those who lead them, ultimately the pdf lead the rdf, if those in the pdf arent up to the job then the rdf failings lies at their doors...

Poccington

Nuttzz wrote: »

the reserve are a load of sh1t and cant be trusted to do anything, the funkers can bearly turn up for training never mind important stuff like duties...

heard it before? since 1990 i've heard it plenty of times from the pdf, and to be honest they are not wrong, but lets be honest who is really responsible for the reserve?

Go far enough up the chain of command can you will see the black hats there.

Each OC RDF bde is a career pdf officer, if he has taken a sideline move to take a promotion to lt col before he retires and leaves at a higher pension point then that is a fundamental problem with the pdf, assignment to a reserve command appointment shouldbnt be a retirement village for pdf officers and SNCO's who wouldnt cut it in regular units.

the reserve is an example of how badly the pdf can run things when they want, senior officers let the SNCO cadres off with murder because they are only putting in the time with the reserve unit until the retire or feck off else where.

I know lots of lads who have left the reserve for the pdf and tell me the pdf training is much harder...no ****, what access does a reservist have to the 4 months of recruit training you did or the 6 month PNCO course.

The willing volunteers of the reserve are looked at with disdain because they are willing to training as a reservist but not sign up as a regular. Heres my story when i wanted to sign up in 1990 I had to join a waiting list and by the time the pdf started to recruit I was too old, so am I not good enough to be a regular because im 5 months older than the limit?


All organisations take their lead from those who lead them, ultimately the pdf lead the rdf, if those in the pdf arent up to the job then the rdf failings lies at their doors...

What a load of bollocks. PDF Recruit Training is 6 months by the way.

Would you like the RDF Bde CO's to go around every platoon in the country to make sure the job is being done, standards are being enforced, people are trained properly? I mean by your post, why bother promoting or commissioning members of the RDF? We'll just fill each Platoon and Coy with PDF NCO's and Officers because according to you, the RDF can't look after itself.

All the problems within the RDF can't be placed at the PDF's doorstep. RDF members are responsible for their own personal standards, personal fitness or commitment to turn up to training. Empire protecting, resistance to Integration, complete lack of standards being enforced... That wasn't down to the PDF.

According to military.ie the establishment for the RDF is 9,292, somebody on here said only 2,000 members qualified for Grat.

Now tell me with a straight face, that the RDF in it's current form should be trusted by the PDF to perform any task, nevermind Overseas like some people on here are suggesting.

People can say "Oh it's the PDF's fault" all they want but sooner or later, they're gonna have to face up to the fact that the problems are a lot closer to home.

Tubsandtiles

Well this thread has really turned into a cat fight , the good old argument trying to justify the RDF's existence anymore when in my opinion it should be finished and money invested into the PDF for recruitment and to increase it's number and size. It's better to to have one properly trained army than a army split into two. I also don't also get the argument that the PDF only need a certain number and have a limit on personnel, surely disbanding the RDF could allow the PDF's intake and capacity to go up .

OS119

Tubsandtiles wrote: »

Well this thread has really turned into a cat fight , the good old argument trying to justify the RDF's existence anymore when in my opinion it should be finished and money invested into the PDF for recruitment and to increase it's number and size. It's better to to have one properly trained army than a army split into two. I also don't also get the argument that the PDF only need a certain number and have a limit on personnel, surely disbanding the RDF could allow the PDF's intake and capacity to go up .

the PDF's establishment doesn't need to go up - 10,000 people is way more than enough to comfortably furnish a continuous overseas deployment of between 400 and 600, some CIT's, bomb disposal, ARW (counter-terrorism) and a training cadre.

what the PDF does need is regular, large scale (BG level) overseas exercises, a re-org of the ridiculous 9 fantasy battalion structure, a cull of the war-dodgers and wheezy fat boys with a note from matron, and some investment in section and Pn level weapons and battlefield mobility.

concussion

Tubsandtiles wrote: »

I also don't also get the argument that the PDF only need a certain number and have a limit on personnel, surely disbanding the RDF could allow the PDF's intake and capacity to go up .

I don't want to sound like I've a personal grudge against you, but once again, check your facts. The maximum allowed in the PDF is 10,500, down from 14,000 or so, and this was set in the height of the boom when there was big capital spending, lots of recruitment, a rake of peace enforcement missions and effectively as many mandays as Reservists wanted. For the next few years it will be held at 10,000 so recruitment will only serve to maintain this level.

OS119 - I don't suggest that the PDF be downsized as RDF theoretically take over security duties, I suggest that they free up deployable, fit PDF trooops to take on bigger/more overseas missions. Feasibly you could send a complete battalion as a unit rather than putting one together from a lead brigade.

I agree with a lot of what Nuttzz says, everything the RDF does is ultimately approved or denied by PDF. However Poccington is bang on, we need to pull our **** together, make a decision on our commitment, fitness and attitude and give the PDF reasons to use us, not excuses to ignore us.