Where is the RDF going to end up?

Runner_11

Ok so its election time, in a months time we will have a new government in power, who it will be no one really knows, we can only speculate. What do people think will happen to the reserves i am a member for nearly nine years now and i have already seen alot of change from intergration to the possibility of serving overseas i am aware some lads have done so but a larger group had hoped to go over.

Anyway to sum up during these times of economic unrest the RDF has taken a hit, but will it come back stronger and in a new roll maybe?

Or will it be phased out over a period of time?

concussion

In my opinion it will be left to stagnate until the country has more money - I give it 5 years before anything positive happens. I also think that no polititian would go so far as to completely disband it, too much trouble, too many ex members. It's a shame because the cost to radically upskill the entire RDF is negligable really.

BuckJamesRogers

Even introducing basic fitness tests and interviews from before attestation would solve a lot of problems.

Coolbreeze2809

BuckJamesRogers wrote: »

Even introducing basic fitness tests and interviews from before attestation would solve a lot of problems.

And cost next to nothing. Probably save a lot of money in the long run too.

Tubsandtiles

I am going too be honest, as a member of the reserve and taking into account the current situation of the economy and PDF backlist of people wanting to join, I would say the smart thing to do would be to disband the RDF. While it is a very positive thing, after experiencing the high's of the RDF and lows/flaws, I would say disband it. Its costing the tax-payer and government too much money and while it breaks my heart to say it, it serves no purpose especially while we have the regular army/PDF.

The PDF will be there to carry out public duties. I hate to say it but the RDF carries no purpose only to train people, and very badly at times. The lack of fitness criteria/exams just shows how the RDF lacks any purpose again. My summary, the RDF carries no purpose and no argument could justify its existence anymore.

I do not mean to bring down the RDF, I have spent four great years in it, making some great friends and having great experiences. The lack of resources in it and training are a testament to its finish especially with the economic debt.

BuckJamesRogers

Tubsandtiles wrote: »

I am going too be honest, as a member of the reserve and taking into account the current situation of the economy and PDF backlist of people wanting to join, I would say the smart thing to do would be to disband the RDF. While it is a very positive thing, after experiencing the high's of the RDF and lows/flaws, I would say disband it. Its costing the tax-payer and government too much money and while it breaks my heart to say it, it serves no purpose especially while we have the regular army/PDF.

The PDF will be there to carry out public duties. I hate to say it but the RDF carries no purpose only to train people, and very badly at times. The lack of fitness criteria/exams just shows how the RDF lacks any purpose again. My summary, the RDF carries no purpose and no argument could justify its existence anymore.

I do not mean to bring down the RDF, I have spent four great years in it, making some great friends and having great experiences. The lack of resources in it and training are a testament to its finish especially with the economic debt.

You could disband it - at a cost.

Or upskill at a small cost and get some use out of the RDF. It would not be too tricky or too expensive a task if it were done right. But I guess that's the key issue. It probably would not be done right. Again.

concussion

Tubsandtiles wrote: »

I am going too be honest, as a member of the reserve and taking into account the current situation of the economy and PDF backlist of people wanting to join, I would say the smart thing to do would be to disband the RDF. While it is a very positive thing, after experiencing the high's of the RDF and lows/flaws, I would say disband it. Its costing the tax-payer and government too much money and while it breaks my heart to say it, it serves no purpose especially while we have the regular army/PDF.

How much does the RDF cost per year?

Tubsandtiles

concussion wrote: »

How much does the RDF cost per year?

Too be honest I don't have a number or cost but I am sure there is one somewhere. Taking into account camps per year with rate of pay per rank, (a private like myself could get anything up too (€400-500) for a week's camp, now take into account a senior NCO or officer. Then there is the cost of training weekends and days, transport, clothing. There is also promotion ( I don't think it is very high due to the economic troubles). There are many other hidden cost's. Can any one confirm if a RDF Officer gets a pension on retirement ?.

Runner_11

The RDF does not cost a hugh amount to run, the main overheads were Cadre staff who have now had the allowance cut. Grat was paid to just over 2,000 members this year i think that speaks for itself.

The RDF will not be on any political agenda for the election but once a party gets in they will be looking at the books and trying to justify value for money for every penny spent they have to make over 3bn in cuts this year...The RDF could go or be cut to a very small number.

What i would like to see happen is a huge revamp better resources and a role for the RDF what that could be im unsure at the moment. Fitness levels are not good and the level of training is not consistant enough.

There is just not enough money to upskill the RDF at the moment and we dont have a real purpose, I mean the civil defence provide more to the state then the RDF i think there really needs to be a very good reason to keep it.

Tubsandtiles

Runner_11 wrote: »

The RDF does not cost a hugh amount to run, the main overheads were Cadre staff who have now had the allowance cut. Grat was paid to just over 2,000 members this year i think that speaks for itself.

The RDF will not be on any political agenda for the election but once a party gets in they will be looking at the books and trying to justify value for money for every penny spent they have to make over 3bn in cuts this year...The RDF could go or be cut to a very small number.

What i would like to see happen is a huge revamp better resources and a role for the RDF what that could be im unsure at the moment. Fitness levels are not good and the level of training is not consistant enough.

There is just not enough money to upskill the RDF at the moment and we dont have a real purpose, I mean the civil defence provide more to the state then the RDF i think there really needs to be a very good reason to keep it.

I agree with you but the fact of the matter is, up-skilling would probably turn into a disaster and cost too much. Bringing fitness exams wouldn't change the fact it serves no point and public duties are there for the Pdf so there is no reason to continue it on.

In my opinion

Tubsandtiles wrote: »

Too be honest I don't have a number or cost but I am sure there is one somewhere. Taking into account camps per year with rate of pay per rank, (a private like myself could get anything up too (€400-500) for a week's camp, now take into account a senior NCO or officer. Then there is the cost of training weekends and days, transport, clothing. There is also promotion ( I don't think it is very high due to the economic troubles). There are many other hidden cost's. Can any one confirm if a RDF Officer gets a pension on retirement ?.

Yes an RDF Officer gets a very generous pension on retirement made up of about 97% of his overseas allowances earned while a commisioned officer of the Reserve! Non Commisioned overseas service is as you know non pensionable. RDF Officers are amongst the most valued Public Servants in this land ! As an RDF Officer of many years I look forward to my pension. Your 4 years of service have really enlightened you. Keep up the good work!

BuckJamesRogers

Tubsandtiles wrote: »

I agree with you but the fact of the matter is, up-skilling would probably turn into a disaster and cost too much. Bringing fitness exams wouldn't change the fact it serves no point and public duties are there for the Pdf so there is no reason to continue it on.

Well upskilling would enable us to do some duties :rolleyes:

There is potential for disaster, yes but if it is done right, it could be extremely effective.

goldie fish

The last question asked of th eMinister in the Dail last week did not bode well. The question asked if there were plans to disband the RDF, there was no answer as such just "lets wait for the VFM".

218. Deputy John Perry asked the Minister for Defence if he will ensure that the allowance paid to Permanent Defence Force cadre staff in respect of working in conjunction with the Reserve Defence Force will not be abolished in view of the financial hardship this will cause to many members; if he will ensure that the allowance is retained in view of the fact that it has been in existence for over 40 years; the future plans for the RDF should this allowance be abolished; if the RDF will also be abolished; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4575/11]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív): The allowance referred to in this question is a matter subject to litigation in the High Court. In those circumstances it would be inappropriate for me to comment on that portion of the question. A Value for Money review of the reserve is presently underway. It is expected that the findings of the review will contribute to the development of future plans for the reserve.

In my opinion

goldie fish wrote: »

The last question asked of th eMinister in the Dail last week did not bode well. The question asked if there were plans to disband the RDF, there was no answer as such just "lets wait for the VFM".

In fairness a similar answer can out last March to both Noel Grealish Galway West and Frank Feighan Roscommon South Leitrim regarding the Directorate Reserve being abolished and placed under D Training. VFM will always be final part of any PQ answer regarding future of RDF until it is done.

Poccington

BuckJamesRogers wrote: »

Well upskilling would enable us to do some duties :rolleyes:

There is potential for disaster, yes but if it is done right, it could be extremely effective.

Duties such as what? I've seen the numbers that parade for the RDF in my barracks, if they can't get people to turn up on parade nights well then quite frankly, I wouldn't trust them to turn up for and perform duties.

Anyway this is all pointless because the RDF are gonna be out my back garden digging OP's. Along with their Officers and the cushy pensions they get.... Or something.

BuckJamesRogers

Poccington wrote: »

Duties such as what? I've seen the numbers that parade for the RDF in my barracks, if they can't get people to turn up on parade nights well then quite frankly, I wouldn't trust them to turn up for and perform duties.

Anyway this is all pointless because the RDF are gonna be out my back garden digging OP's. Along with their Officers and the cushy pensions they get.... Or something.

Agreed. That's why upskilling needs to go along with a(nother) re-org. The last one didn't do half of what it should have. The reserve could be a lot better than what it is, but until the will is there to do something about it, it will stay as it is. I think this will happen later rather than sooner unfortunately.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a HUGE Privates pension to collect...after 3 years...

Tubsandtiles

This whole trying to justify the existence of the RDF anymore is really annoying, while I would rather see it still exist, it's a waste of time. All this up-skill chat is funny, up-skill the RDF to do what exactly ? , maybe up-skill so that they turn up for training nights, keep in step while marching and be confident with weapons. The point of up-skilling wouldn't change anything apart from the Economy's bank balance. No arguments here have given any reasons for the existence of the RDF anymore so if any one who is posting here to give reasons why it should not be finished, post something more than "We need to up-skill" the RDF etc, jokers .

BuckJamesRogers

Tubsandtiles wrote: »

This whole trying to justify the existence of the RDF anymore is really annoying, while I would rather see it still exist, it's a waste of time. All this up-skill chat is funny, up-skill the RDF to do what exactly ? , maybe up-skill so that they turn up for training nights, keep in step while marching and be confident with weapons. The point of up-skilling wouldn't change anything apart from the Economy's bank balance. No arguments here have given any reasons for the existence of the RDF anymore so if any one who is posting here to give reasons why it should not be finished, post something more than "We need to up-skill" the RDF etc, jokers .

And what do you suggest then?

A re-org is what's needed. As well as up-skilling.

Tubsandtiles

BuckJamesRogers wrote: »

And what do you suggest then?

A re-org is what's needed. As well as up-skilling.

The RDF be disbanded so money can be put more too use like more recruitment for the PDF

BuckJamesRogers

Tubsandtiles wrote: »

The RDF be disbanded so money can be put more too use like more recruitment for the PDF

Not sure that makes too much sense there mate. The PDF won't recruit above a certain number of people (say 10k) because the need for a massive Permanent force just isn't there. Same way there isn't a need for the Reserve as it is.

Tubsandtiles

BuckJamesRogers wrote: »

Not sure that makes too much sense there mate. The PDF won't recruit above a certain number of people (say 10k) because the need for a massive Permanent force just isn't there. Same way there isn't a need for the Reserve as it is.

I'm pretty sure it does make sense, and I'm pretty sure if the RDF was disbanded the limit to the amount of PDF would get up as there obviously would be more money to invest into the PDF

BuckJamesRogers

Tubsandtiles wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it does make sense, and I'm pretty sure if the RDF was disbanded the limit to the amount of PDF would get up as there obviously would be more money to invest into the PDF

It doesn't because they wont expand the PDF because there is no need for it. Why would you go to the cost of recruiting *insert number of people here* (recruiting would cost more money than the disbanded RDF IMO) when there's no jobs for them? Pointless, costly exercise.

Tubsandtiles

BuckJamesRogers wrote: »

It doesn't because they wont expand the PDF because there is no need for it. Why would you go to the cost of recruiting *insert number of people here* (recruiting would cost more money than the disbanded RDF IMO) when there's no jobs for them? Pointless, costly exercise.

...Shakes hand in the air with anger , RDF to be disbanded.

testicle

What will happen is that what was the establishment of the Integrated RDF will become the establishment of the new RDF, more or less. There will not be any stand alone RDF units any more.

BuckJamesRogers

testicle wrote: »

What will happen is that what was the establishment of the Integrated RDF will become the establishment of the new RDF, more or less. There will not be any stand alone RDF units any more.

Yep. Good step too IMO.

Skyhawk1990

Tubsandtiles wrote: »

...Shakes hand in the air with anger , RDF to be disbanded.

It's obvious from your posts here that you're anti-RDF even though you've spent the past "four great years" in it. Honestly if you have that much resentment against the organisation just leave. The RDF doesn't need people like you in its ranks! We need people that show up, pull their weight and are willing to do what they can!

What you can do now is stop trolling the thread and not post in it again and I'd ask others not to listen to you either cause you're not adding anything useful to the thread at all. By the way if you reply to this don't expect me to reply to you at all!

Endymion

The reserve defence forces is one of the very few outlets for people looking to discharge their civic duty, for that reason alone it's a good idea to keep. Yes there are charitable organisations people can join but they shouldn't be the only option. The reserve at it's very best instils civic duty, responsibility, leadership skill, loyalty and commitment. A reserve military force is, at it's core, a fundamentally good thing for a society to have. You can't just look at the budget sheets and ascribe value.

Also, while I don't have the figures to hand, last time I looked the reserve accounted for approximately ~.5% - 1% of total military budget. It's not like there's a lot of money ring fenced for the RDF, most of the training is carried out for free, in facilities that are army owned. You'd save an absolute pittance year on year by removing it and you'd have the cost of suddenly loosing all the reserve personel in the event of a national emegency such as foot and mouth, flooding and heavy snow fall. Or for national events such as the special Olympics. These are all circumstances in which the reserve has been deployed in recent years.

Poccington

Endymion wrote: »

You'd save an absolute pittance year on year by removing it and you'd have the cost of suddenly loosing all the reserve personel in the event of a national emegency such as foot and mouth, flooding and heavy snow fall. Or for national events such as the special Olympics. These are all circumstances in which the reserve has been deployed in recent years.

Snow fall? I didn't see a single member of the RDF being deployed during the recent snow, same goes for the flooding.

The Special Olympics really isn't a good enough excuse to keep what is essentially an organisation that is wandering around with no aim or use.

BuckJamesRogers

Poccington wrote: »

Snow fall? I didn't see a single member of the RDF being deployed during the recent snow, same goes for the flooding.

The Special Olympics really isn't a good enough excuse to keep what is essentially an organisation that is wandering around with no aim or use.

We weren't but it would have made more sense to deploy us in places (like around my area) where there is no PDF barracks less than an our away. Surely that would save money?

Poccington

BuckJamesRogers wrote: »

We weren't but it would have made more sense to deploy us in places (like around my area) where there is no PDF barracks less than an our away. Surely that would save money?

How? You'd still have to be rationed, given somewhere to sleep etc.

What would the point have been in using the RDF when we had troops already in place to do it? Apart from giving the RDF something to do?

My point still stands, people can't use snow of floods as a reason to keep the RDF when the RDF weren't used. If that's the case, why not just expand the Civil Defence? Instead of having a Reserve military organisation that serves no purpose?

BuckJamesRogers

Poccington wrote: »

How? You'd still have to be rationed, given somewhere to sleep etc.

What would the point have been in using the RDF when we had troops already in place to do it? Apart from giving the RDF something to do?

My point still stands, people can't use snow of floods as a reason to keep the RDF when the RDF weren't used. If that's the case, why not just expand the Civil Defence? Instead of having a Reserve military organisation that serves no purpose?

Would we really? Surely we could have just stayed at home after clearing snow? I live about a mile from the town, I could have walked if need be. 90% of the active members of my unit are the same.

I agree with you on certain points though. We don't serve a purpose as it stands, but we could potentially if the bloody will was there. The RDF has some very good bods and some awful ones. Same with every org.