Starting stronglifts again after 7 months injury!

Deedsie

Hi, I am starting 5x5 again. I have been out with an ankle injury, coupled with laziness for seven months. I have a few questions I hope ye can help me with. I have the basics of nutrition at this stage. It's the supplements I can't get my head around. I have a bag of optimum nutrition 100% whey, a bag of myprotein creatine monohydrate and a bag of MyProtein L Glutamine. I have no idea what doses of these to take when to take them etc

I won't be able do the 3 days as recommended in the stronglifts programme. I'll have to do it Tuesday and thursday due to other commitments. But I presume, two days is better than no days... Obviously.

I really want to give it a good go this time. My arms always fatigue when I get up around 70KG on the bench. I can never do the 5x5 with good technique. Can the creatine help this?


What days and times should I take the supplements? I usually mix they whey with milk after I lift. So two days a week when lifting!

mickman

supplements and creatine etc do not help with technique. technique comes with practising the exercise and moving up through the weights slowly while your body gets stronger

in my opinoin you are taking way too much stuff there. whey protein is enough, there is no need of the other stuff. you seem to be putting too much emphasis on "stuff" rather than the exercises themselves.

you really should do 3 days a week. two is a bit light

Deedsie

mickman wrote: »

supplements and creatine etc do not help with technique. technique comes with practising the exercise and moving up through the weights slowly while your body gets stronger

in my opinoin you are taking way too much stuff there. whey protein is enough, there is no need of the other stuff. you seem to be putting too much emphasis on "stuff" rather than the exercises themselves.

you really should do 3 days a week. two is a bit light

See I havenever really used it before. Except the whey obviously. I bought the creatine and Glutamine on someones recommendation. I just want to get some use of it or dump it.

Can't so 3 days at the moment anyway.

mickman

Deedsie wrote: »

See I havenever really used it before. Except the whey obviously. I bought the creatine and Glutamine on someones recommendation. I just want to get some use of it or dump it.

Can't so 3 days at the moment anyway.

i dont know anything about glutamine but i have heard some bad stuff about creatine. i would dump them and workout properly

Molly

I would ignore everything mickman says.

mickman

Molly wrote: »

I would ignore everything mickman says.

why so?

gymsoldier

Molly wrote: »

I would ignore everything mickman says.

I completely agree.

mickman

gymsoldier wrote: »

I completely agree.

anyone want to tell me what i have done wrong here?

Deedsie

Alright, Im not gonna dump it. It can surely provide some benefits to me at some stage. If someone can provide a reason to use or not use, I would really appreciate it. I have gotten great advice and encouragement from this forum before.

Hopefully someone knows about L Glutamine and Creatine Monohydrate.

jasonf9ace

mickman wrote: »

anyone want to tell me what i have done wrong here?

think its because you suggested to dump his supplements because you heard "bad" things about creatine,care to explain what bad things you heard about creatine monohydrate?

compaqlaptop1

I cant see the point in taking all those supplements unless you extremely dedicated to weight training, or you are operating at high level in body building or some sport like rugby. Its way overkill for the average joe looking to get in shape. You aren't gonna be working hard enough for it to of any more than negligible benefit to you.

And I wouldn't be too keen on this 'Stronglifts' program. The guy who came up with it is just some random nobody who happened to register a very catchy domain name. You might as well be doing 'compaqlaptop1's MajorLifts program'. If you're gonna follow a program at least use one that has been concocted by a recognised strength coach.

jasonf9ace

Sorry for critisising but your starting off with a bad approach already by already cutting out a day.Thats a 3rd of the work load.If you want it bad im sure you can sacrifice an extra hour a week maybe on a sunday or something? heres an article on creatine monohydrate that might help clear things up a bit > http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/creatine.html
Me personnaly i dont think glutamine is a worth while supplement but im sure theres people who would disagree with me aswell.See no harm taking it since you have it already.

jasonf9ace

compaqlaptop1 wrote: »

I cant see the point in taking all those supplements unless you extremely dedicated to weight training, or you are operating at high level in body building or some sport like rugby. Its way overkill for the average joe looking to get in shape. You aren't gonna be working hard enough for it to of any more than negligible benefit to you.

And I wouldn't be too keen on this 'Stronglifts' program. The guy who came up with it is just some random nobody who happened to register a very catchy domain name. You might as well be doing 'compaqlaptop1's MajorLifts program'. If you're gonna follow a program at least use one that has been concocted by a recognised strength coach.

Would have to disagree with you on that statement on stronglifts. 5X5 was originally created by reg parks (3 times mr olympia and a man who could bench 500lbs) in the 1940s/50s.As of today theres many different variations of the 5x5 from stronglifts,ripptoe and bill stars to name a few. Reason for this is simple because it works and gets results.

compaqlaptop1

jasonf9ace wrote: »

Would have to disagree with you on that statement on stronglifts. 5X5 was originally created by reg parks (3 times mr olympia and a man who could bench 500lbs) in the 1940s/50s.As of today theres many different variations of the 5x5 from stronglifts,ripptoe and bill stars to name a few. Reason for this is simple because it works and gets results.

Fair enough, I know 5x5 is a tried and tested program - I just dont like this mehdi character from stronglifts. He's lifting weights for bodybuilding and strength for over a decade and he is 165lbs at 5'8. Why would anyone be taking weight training advice from this non-entity.

Deedsie

I have done stronglifts before, thought it was great, squats, bench, deadlift, overhead press are all in ss, the only difference is the power clean is substituted for a barbell row. Which I find much easier to get the technique right. And my back gets very strong.

Are there any two day programs? I have only access to the gym Monday to Friday. Play soccer Monday and wednesday.

I intend to play rugby again. Maybe hold the creatine Glutamine untill then?

Burkatron

Deedsie wrote: »

I have done stronglifts before, thought it was great, squats, bench, deadlift, overhead press are all in ss, the only difference is the power clean is substituted for a barbell row. Which I find much easier to get the technique right. And my back gets very strong.

Are there any two day programs? I have only access to the gym Monday to Friday. Play soccer Monday and wednesday.

I intend to play rugby again. Maybe hold the creatine Glutamine untill then?

I did a 5*5 variation numerous times as a 2 day split & got good results. I could only dedicate 2 days as I was MMA training. It's better then NOT doing it & it's got the basic lifts you need!

So
Day 1
Squat 5x5
Bench 5x5
Barbell Row 5x5

Day 2
Squat 5x5
Military 5x5
Deadlift 5x5

It doesn't have to be complicated. Folllow the above, play football, get back into rugby & you'll be doing enough.

Stop worrying about supplements.Sort your diet 1st.
If you're not getting enough protein from your diet then supplement it with whey!
If you find in a couple of months you're stalling/plateauing on your lifts give the creatine a go as a plateau buster. 5 grams a day & see if it makes a difference. Alot of people find no difference, others swear by it! Go off it after 2 - 3 months for a few weeks, then back on it again. Cycling creatine is recommended (some people dont bother & they're fine) on the packaging so for that reason alone I do it..

Deedsie

I have just changed my schedule for a month. Gonna lift Monday, Wednesday and Friday for a month and see where I am after that. I always plateau on the bench at 70 kg. My main goal for the bench is to lift 75kg on the bench 5x5

DARCHA22

Deedsie wrote: »

See I havenever really used it before. Except the whey obviously. I bought the creatine and Glutamine on someones recommendation. I just want to get some use of it or dump it.

Can't so 3 days at the moment anyway.

If you wanna use tose supps heres how to use them, as noone has answered yoru question of how to use them

Creatine, 5grams a day every day with plenty of water throughout the day to keep you hydrated

Glutamine, take it when you want really or one of these options are the most common
1. 5-10G prebed
2. 5-10g preworkout and 5-10g postworkout
3. or anytime you have a shake put 5-10g in.

Glutamine can help with recovery, stomach issues and GH output, google it and read up on it and look at the studies done and see if you want to use it but it wont hurt to throw some into yoru shakes


Whey, take it if you lack enough protein through your diet. Take it post workout. If you need the extra protein the have a shake between meals.


You are only working out twice a week so to be honest you do not need any supplements.

Hope that helps

DARCHA22

compaqlaptop1 wrote: »

Fair enough, I know 5x5 is a tried and tested program - I just dont like this mehdi character from stronglifts. He's lifting weights for bodybuilding and strength for over a decade and he is 165lbs at 5'8. Why would anyone be taking weight training advice from this non-entity.

Do your research, he trains for strength, therefore he is not huge like a bodybuilder.

2 types of effect from resistance training:
Hypertrophy - training for size, Muscle gets bigger
Hyperplasia -training for strength, muscle gets stronger

Are you comparing him to Pro bodybuilders, you do know they use juice to help them get that size, so comparing a natural strenght athlete to a pro bodybuilder woudl be just plain silly.


I think this speaks for itself:
As a drug-free strength trainer, Mehdi has lifted weights consistently for over 11 years, averaging at least 45 weeks of training per year. And although he’s not a competitive powerlifter and born with “bad genetics”, he’s now Squatting and Deadlifting almost 400lbs/500lbs at about 170lbs body-weight (5’8″).


So to cap that off, lifting those weights at that weight is pretty good IMO, and the website is quiet good too.

Brian?

compaqlaptop1 wrote: »

Fair enough, I know 5x5 is a tried and tested program - I just dont like this mehdi character from stronglifts. He's lifting weights for bodybuilding and strength for over a decade and he is 165lbs at 5'8. Why would anyone be taking weight training advice from this non-entity.

No idea how a man weighin 165pounds can be such an internet guru. It is a fine example of what's wrong with internet guruship.

Having said that though, stronglifts 5x5 will work grand I reckon. Starting Strength is better though, IMO.

They're both based on Bill Starrs work as far as I know.

http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Bill_Starr_5x5

I'd do the beginner one if I was starting again.

Deedsie

DARCHA22 wrote: »

If you wanna use tose supps heres how to use them, as noone has answered yoru question of how to use them

Creatine, 5grams a day every day with plenty of water throughout the day to keep you hydrated

Glutamine, take it when you want really or one of these options are the most common
1. 5-10G prebed
2. 5-10g preworkout and 5-10g postworkout
3. or anytime you have a shake put 5-10g in.

Glutamine can help with recovery, stomach issues and GH output, google it and read up on it and look at the studies done and see if you want to use it but it wont hurt to throw some into yoru shakes


Whey, take it if you lack enough protein through your diet. Take it post workout. If you need the extra protein the have a shake between meals.


You are only working out twice a week so to be honest you do not need any supplements.

Hope that helps

That is exactly the information I needed. Thanks very much for that. I am gonna do training m/w/f for two month to see how I get on. Are you suggesting I take 5grams of creatine 7 days a week, while I am lifting? Just want to make sure I interpreted what you said right? I'm gonna take the Glutamine after training? I'm just gonna take the whey shakes after training.

DARCHA22 wrote: »

Do your research, he trains for strength, therefore he is not huge like a bodybuilder.

2 types of effect from resistance training:
Hypertrophy - training for size, Muscle gets bigger
Hyperplasia -training for strength, muscle gets stronger

Are you comparing him to Pro bodybuilders, you do know they use juice to help them get that size, so comparing a natural strenght athlete to a pro bodybuilder woudl be just plain silly.


I think this speaks for itself:
As a drug-free strength trainer, Mehdi has lifted weights consistently for over 11 years, averaging at least 45 weeks of training per year. And although he’s not a competitive powerlifter and born with “bad genetics”, he’s now Squatting and Deadlifting almost 400lbs/500lbs at about 170lbs body-weight (5’8″).


So to cap that off, lifting those weights at that weight is pretty good IMO, and the website is quiet good too.

I am training for strength, I have no interest at all in have muscles bulging all over me. Just want to be strong and toned, and be able flatten any rugby player a foot taller than me.

Thanks again for the creatine advise.

Hanley

DARCHA22 wrote: »

Do your research, he trains for strength, therefore he is not huge like a bodybuilder.

He's not strong either.

Look for his ACTUAL best lifts, versus those he claims.

And even those claimed lifts are pretty sh!t - a 180kg squat and 227.5kg deadlift is pretty rubbish for a dude who weighs 77kg, is training 11 years and holds himself up as an expert.

And then there's his bench.

compaqlaptop1

DARCHA22 wrote: »

I think this speaks for itself:
As a drug-free strength trainer, Mehdi has lifted weights consistently for over 11 years, averaging at least 45 weeks of training per year. And although he’s not a competitive powerlifter and born with “bad genetics”, he’s now Squatting and Deadlifting almost 400lbs/500lbs at about 170lbs body-weight (5’8″).

I dont believe he lifted those weights. Read up on him on some other forums, he had training logs on stronglifts and he was lifting pitiful weights for a guy who supposedly squats 500lbs. He took down the logs when people called him out on it. He basically took someone else's program (5x5), stuck the word 'stronglifts' before it, and claims it as his own.

11 years weight training and he weighs 165lbs at 5'8....whatever he trains for, strength or bodybuilding (which he also says he has done), that is a mediocre result.

gymsoldier

Just gonna mini hijack the thread here, some experts believe that you get enough Glutamine from protein sources (whey etc.) already. What are people's views on this?

Brian?

Deedsie wrote: »

I am training for strength, I have no interest at all in have muscles bulging all over me. Just want to be strong and toned, and be able flatten any rugby player a foot taller than me.

In that case Bill Starrs 5x5 is perfect for you. It's basically what that Mehdi fella copied to come up with stronglifts, except that he left out one of the best excercises a rugby player can do: Power Cleans.

The only problem with Bill Starr is that he is too old and not internet savvy enough to have a fancy website where people can tell him how great he is.

Deedsie

I have the Rippetoe and Starr book, starting strength. I even have the videos to examine technique. I could never get the technique right for the power clean. I always felt I was cheating, using my arms to lift the weight. Its much easier to get the technique right on the barbell rows!

The power clean is just one exercise I could never master.

d'Oracle

Deedsie wrote: »

I have the Rippetoe and Starr book, starting strength.

Bill Starr wasn't involved in writing that book.

Hanley

d'Oracle wrote: »

Bill Starr wasn't involved in writing that book.

...and would probably choke on his own vomit being associated with it.

d'Oracle

Hanley wrote: »

...and would probably choke on his own vomit being associated with it.

He trained Rippetoe and regularly writes articles for Rippetoes site.

DARCHA22

Deedsie wrote: »

That is exactly the information I needed. Thanks very much for that. I am gonna do training m/w/f for two month to see how I get on. Are you suggesting I take 5grams of creatine 7 days a week, while I am lifting? Just want to make sure I interpreted what you said right?

I'm gonna take the Glutamine after training? I'm just gonna take the whey shakes after training.

.

Yep take 5g every day. or if you widh you can take the 5g only on workout days at any time of the day. But i woudl go for 5g every day.

Some studies show that taking glutamine before bed helps your body release a bit more groth hormone so a couple of grams before bed woudl be a nice little addition but not essential or necessary for the average person to be honest.

mickman

compaqlaptop1 wrote: »

Fair enough, I know 5x5 is a tried and tested program - I just dont like this mehdi character from stronglifts. He's lifting weights for bodybuilding and strength for over a decade and he is 165lbs at 5'8. Why would anyone be taking weight training advice from this non-entity.

i wouldnt say his height has anything to do with it !!

anyway i didnt really like stronglifts either, starts off with people doing rows and over head presses etc and beginners dont have the strength to do these properly. beginners need to do basic strengthing for the first few weeks to get some muscle in order to do these properly

im doing jason ferrugias program and find it excellent. first 4 weeks were just squats, dips and deadlifts to build basic strength

Mellor

compaqlaptop1 wrote: »

Fair enough, I know 5x5 is a tried and tested program - I just dont like this mehdi character from stronglifts. He's lifting weights for bodybuilding and strength for over a decade and he is 165lbs at 5'8. Why would anyone be taking weight training advice from this non-entity.

The program is good, Mehdi didn't write it. He just was savvy enough to coin a clever name and build a website. He doesn't claim to have written it either.

He says he was kicked out of his gym, because people where askign him for advice and he was giving better advice to the PT in the gym.

So he built a home gym and started on 5x5 which he based on stuff from Glenn Pendlay. He also mentions Reg Park was doing 5x5 back in the 50s

Basically, I haven't used it. But the program looks like any other 5x5 starter program. So I'd say its fine. But the site is there to make money. I have an issue with people who tell blatent lies to promote something. Such as;

As a coach, Mehdi routinely helps “hardgainers” gain 25lbs weight in 25 days

No he doesn't. Nobody does. Simply not possible.

DARCHA22 wrote: »

I think this speaks for itself:
As a drug-free strength trainer, Mehdi has lifted weights consistently for over 11 years, averaging at least 45 weeks of training per year. And although he’s not a competitive powerlifter and born with “bad genetics”, he’s now Squatting and Deadlifting almost 400lbs/500lbs at about 170lbs body-weight (5’8″).

So to cap that off, lifting those weights at that weight is pretty good IMO, and the website is quiet good too.

Everything sounds bigger in pounds. Those lifts aren't really impressive.
Notice, be says "almost" 400/500, but doesn't actually say exactly where he is atm.
The below was in his log

14/10/2009

Box Squat
3x5 105kg yay

Bench
3x5 67,5kg yay

Deadlift
1x5 132,5kg yay

He his 1RMs from the site at the end of 2009, since taken down

Deadlift: 170kg
Box Squat: 142,5kg
Box Front Squat: 130kg
Bench Press: 100kg
Overhead Press: 65kg

Hanley

And just in case people don't realise, his numbers break down as:

Deadlift (actual -v- claimed): less than 375lb -v- almost 500lb
Squat (actual -v- claimed): less than 315lb -v- almost 400lb

And I'm 99% certain he's squatting to a high box and his actual real squat number is even lower.

And a 100kg bench (1.3x bodyweight), at 77kg, after training for 11 years? Embarrassing. Legitimately embarrassing.

mickman

Hanley wrote: »

And just in case people don't realise, his numbers break down as:

Deadlift (actual -v- claimed): less than 375lb -v- almost 500lb
Squat (actual -v- claimed): less than 315lb -v- almost 400lb

And I'm 99% certain he's squatting to a high box and his actual real squat number is even lower.

And a 100kg bench (1.3x bodyweight), at 77kg, after training for 11 years? Embarrassing. Legitimately embarrassing.

he is also sending mass emails over the past few days looking for money for stuff i.e. programs etc. he has lost all respect in my mind - bit like an irish politican - spoofer

Brian?

Hanley wrote: »

And just in case people don't realise, his numbers break down as:

Deadlift (actual -v- claimed): less than 375lb -v- almost 500lb
Squat (actual -v- claimed): less than 315lb -v- almost 400lb

And I'm 99% certain he's squatting to a high box and his actual real squat number is even lower.

And a 100kg bench (1.3x bodyweight), at 77kg, after training for 11 years? Embarrassing. Legitimately embarrassing.

That is brutal. I reckon you take a complete novice to that level in a year or so with the proper programming and nutrition.

Hanley

briankeating wrote: »

That is brutal. I reckon you take a complete novice to that level in a year or so with the proper programming and nutrition.

I'd one of my mates benching > bodyweight, pulling > 2x bodyweight and squatting > 1.5x bodyweight in like 3 months. It's not hard.

Mellor

Yeah, took me less a year to reach that level. (only really lifting a little over a year)

And that was while;

• Overweight,
• On a deficit,
• Without somebody to show be best form (would of speed up results)
• My own program,
• Basically did it solo

Don't get me wrong. My lifts are are by no means great, and I'm not some elitest that only vlaues the opinion of really strong guys.
But I'd respect the guy so much more if, instead of blaming his genes and lying about lifts, he was honest and said;

"I'm a small guy, only 5'8", so don't really aim to go much bigger than 170 lbs. And don't use me as a case study for SL. My lifts aren't hugely impressive due to the injury worries, but the program works, there are 100s of big guys lifting huge on this program, see HERE!"

Instead, he promotes the image of some internet coaching phenom.
The whole site is aiming at taking advantage of those who don't know any better. Which is terrible.

mickman

medhi's latest email

" Off to the gym now, heavy Deadlifts today.

Talk soon,
"

itsallaboutheL

mickman wrote: »

im doing jason ferrugias program and find it excellent. first 4 weeks were just squats, dips and deadlifts to build basic strength

Why would you be able to squat dip and deadlift, but not have the strength to press and row?

mickman

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Why would you be able to squat dip and deadlift, but not have the strength to press and row?

everyone finds the press very hard, as its over head work. look at the logs here, people have high squats and a lot lower overhead press. in my opinion you need very strong shoulders to do the OH press correctly.

d'Oracle

That doesn't make any sense.

Is you point that people who are not strong shouldn't try to train a movement to get stronger?

Or that people shouldn't train the press untill they can press as much as they can squat?

Either way, its nonsense.

Brian?

mickman wrote: »

everyone finds the press very hard, as its over head work. look at the logs here, people have high squats and a lot lower overhead press. in my opinion you need very strong shoulders to do the OH press correctly.

What? How do you expect people to get a strong press without pressing?

If that has to be with an empty bar then so be it.

gymsoldier

mickman wrote: »

everyone finds the press very hard, as its over head work. look at the logs here, people have high squats and a lot lower overhead press. in my opinion you need very strong shoulders to do the OH press correctly.

Im going to have to quote this post too. If you read what Ive highlighted in bold; why do you think that all the muscles required to squat, should be as strong as the muscles to press. First off, ratio wise, everything you use to squat is vastly larger then whats used to press. Secondly, what ive underlined; Anybody can learn prefect form with just the bar (20kg), as had already been stated by briankeating.

Mellor

mickman wrote: »

everyone finds the press very hard, as its over head work. look at the logs here, people have high squats and a lot lower overhead press. in my opinion you need very strong shoulders to do the OH press correctly.

Afraid i have to single this one out again as nonsense.
That has nothing got to do with the press being hard* it is simply because its a less powerful move. Guys with world record presses, as still going to be able to squat more.

My your logic, a barbell bicep curl is a very hard move as people can press more than they curl.

Deedsie

Well I have only started lately as I mentioned. I am starting slowly. Monday I will be squatting 55kg and over head press will be 40 Kg. I obviously won't have much bother with the 55kg, but the 40 Kg overhead press will test me. I have strong shoulders, so I will complete 5x5 but once I get up to 50 or 60 Kg I reckon I will struggle.

Mellor

All that means is you aren't squatting very heavy. My squat is over double my press. You should be adding a lot more to your squat than your press each week

Deedsie

I thought you were supposed to ad weight slowly 5 Kg per session? I usually rush into it, when I am lifting. Trying to build up slowly this time.

Brian?

Deedsie wrote: »

I thought you were supposed to ad weight slowly 5 Kg per session? I usually rush into it, when I am lifting. Trying to build up slowly this time.

According to Stronglifts you start with an empty bar and add weight every session.

Starting with an empty bar is balls though, complete balls. You are wasting your time squatting with an empty bar and then very low weights, when what you should be doing is squatting with a weight you can do 5 reps with good form. Yeah, maybe for some people that is and empty bar, but what you're doing now sounds like free wheeling.

Test your 5RM or 1RM and get an actual picture of where your strength is and work from there.

Did I mention the empty bar start in Stronglifts is balls? Do Bill Starrs beginners program I posted earlier. Learn to power clean.

Deedsie

I know I can squat 90kg 5x5 and 100kg 3x8 but I would bs struggling. I don't want to free wheel, I am also lifting with a complete novice, so want to lift similar weight to him as we progress.

Right I'll look into bill starr's program so. Thanks for the tips