spreading fertilizer

GERMAN ROCKS

saw a neighbour spreading fertilizer today. is it not a bit too early yet??

Bodacious

GERMAN ROCKS wrote: »

saw a neighbour spreading fertilizer today. is it not a bit too early yet??

could it be granulated lime he had in it?

stanflt

GERMAN ROCKS wrote: »

saw a neighbour spreading fertilizer today. is it not a bit too early yet??

advised by teagasc to spread nitrogen on reseeded land asap

BeeDI

stanflt wrote: »

advised by teagasc to spread nitrogen on reseeded land asap

But that's only for the "better farmers"

dar31

GERMAN ROCKS wrote: »

saw a neighbour spreading fertilizer today. is it not a bit too early yet??

no, spread some prilled urea last week, but got to windy and stopped, will spread some more early next week.
soil temp last week was 7, needs to be 7-9 for urea.

leg wax

stanflt wrote: »

advised by teagasc to spread nitrogen on reseeded land asap

if they said that, its too early

reilig

BeeDI wrote: »

But that's only for the "better farmers"

It'll be 6 weeks before we spread any around here. Puts us at the bottom of the pile

Muckit

reilig wrote: »

It'll be 6 weeks before we spread any around here. Puts us at the bottom of the pile

Yep, St. Patrick's Day is the date we always have circled:rolleyes:

Saying that, it was a good fortnight after that last year:eek:

stanflt

Muckit wrote: »

Yep, St. Patrick's Day is the date we always have circled:rolleyes:

i hope to have first round of grazing done by then.

BeeDI

reilig wrote: »

It'll be 6 weeks before we spread any around here. Puts us at the bottom of the pile

I'm still looking at half of last years stuff still looking at me. There was unreal grass growth last year without any much help from the bag. At least that's what I found. Nothing more annoying than grass getting too strong and stemmy in front of stock. Especially if you had been fertilizing regularly. I know I could bale it, but to get my contractor to do five bales here and ten there, is just not going to work in my case.

Birdnuts

leg wax wrote: »

if they said that, its too early

Indeed - Teagasc seem to think the averge farmer has a bottomless pit of cash to waste on poorly timed/excessive/wasted inputs:rolleyes:

reilig

stanflt wrote: »

i hope to have first round of grazing done by then.

You must be down south cause we're North west and won't have too many cattle out before may 1st.

5live

Soil temp hit 8 yesterday so am going out next week if no rain forecast. If you are spreading can then i think you get an ok response at 6 as long as rain doesnt wash it away

thetangler

reilig wrote: »

You must be down south cause we're North west and won't have too many cattle out before may 1st.

May day is also my target anything earlier is a bonus.

Tipp Man

Yeah Urea going ot this week

very poor grass in the cow paddocks that were closed early in the autumn - need to get them moving now the temps have picked up a bit

Could be a late spring

funny man

No not too early, if soil temp is above 5 it will be taken up. just wondering when should ya spread urea on paddocks with heavy covers before or after grazing?

snowman707

we have 80K gallons of well watered slurry out , will be going out again end of Feb, no bag will be used until after 20th |March at the earliest , Mid west Region

Figerty

Unless you are in Belmullet it's still too cold for fertiliser.

http://www.met.ie/latest/agricultural.asp

reilig

Figerty wrote: »

Unless you are in Belmullet it's still too cold for fertiliser.

http://www.met.ie/latest/agricultural.asp

That's what I was thinking. Air Temps are up at between 6 and 9 degrees. How could ground temps be up to 6 yet?? The nights are still almost down at freezing and we've had one of the driest January's for 14 years - loads of frost though.

Birdnuts

Figerty wrote: »

Unless you are in Belmullet it's still too cold for fertiliser.

http://www.met.ie/latest/agricultural.asp

Exactly - people seem to have very short memories, there was little or no grass growth over the bulk of the country last spring until well into April. There is no point in putting out this stuff until the threat of harsh frosts has receded - for the bulk of the country this would be the end of March at the very earliest.

blue5000

I haven't even spread slurry yet, reckon I'll get better value from the N in it in a couple of weeks when temperature rises a bit. I wonder do we really need 90 units/acre for first cut silage. If it got 60 units and 2000 gal cattle slurry per acre would yields be back much?

I wonder what the economics of closing up maybe 10-15% more silage ground and giving it less N per acre would be, any thoughts?

Muckit

Birdnuts wrote: »

Exactly - people seem to have very short memories, there was little or no grass growth over the bulk of the country last spring until well into April. There is no point in putting out this stuff until the threat of harsh frosts has receded - for the bulk of the country this would be the end of March at the very earliest.

I think too many lads were reading the farmers journal about 'spring' grass and believing it as gospel! :D Most years for most of the country, 'May day' is when you have 'spring' grass!!:D:D Justin ya codder ya!! Stop trying to pull the wool over our eyes!!

reilig

blue5000 wrote: »

I wonder what the economics of closing up maybe 10-15% more silage ground and giving it less N per acre would be, any thoughts?

Simple economics. More Silage ground + less fertilizer = probably the same amount of silage but less pasture for your animals.

pajero12

Bodacious wrote: »

could it be granulated lime he had in it?

Wouldn't you know by the dust?

linebacker52

spread 23 units of urea tuesday cows going out next week.i think its well worth the risk far better to have it spread than sitting around the yard

funny man

Muckit wrote: »

I think too many lads were reading the farmers journal about 'spring' grass and believing it as gospel! :D Most years for most of the country, 'May day' is when you have 'spring' grass!!:D:D Justin ya codder ya!! Stop trying to pull the wool over our eyes!!

All over the country Dairy cows will be turned out to grass next week, this grass is not grown in the spring but kept over from last autumn and when grazed the growth kick starts and you need some fertilizer in the plant either organic or bag to push growth.

dar31

Muckit wrote: »

I think too many lads were reading the farmers journal about 'spring' grass and believing it as gospel! :D Most years for most of the country, 'May day' is when you have 'spring' grass!!:D:D Justin ya codder ya!! Stop trying to pull the wool over our eyes!!

if you don't try ya wont succeed

Muckit

pajero12 wrote: »

Wouldn't you know by the dust?

Granulated lime does not create any white dust, it's brown granules. The spreader alright will have a brown film, but there will be no evidence on fields

Muckit

funny man wrote: »

All over the country Dairy cows will be turned out to grass next week, this grass is not grown in the spring but kept over from last autumn and when grazed the growth kick starts and you need some fertilizer in the plant either organic or bag to push growth.

Yes very true funny man. I'd say the frost might have damaged that grass a little though.

In practice also, 'on/off' grazing that may be required until growth levels meet herd demand, is really only feasable on dairy farms. Suckler/beef lads want an all or nothing approach, 'once there're out, there out'.

There are some grass managment tips beef farmers can pick up from dairy lads, but not everything trandfers simply from one enterprise to the other.

Until theres more money to be made ibeef, I don't think farmers in this sector should be expected (or will) put in any more effort than is necessary. Why make life hard?

funny man

Muckit wrote: »

Yes very true funny man. I'd say the frost might have damaged that grass a little though.

In practice also, 'on/off' grazing that may be required until growth levels meet herd demand, is really only feasable on dairy farms. Suckler/beef lads want an all or nothing approach, 'once there're out, there out'.

There are some grass managment tips beef farmers can pick up from dairy lads, but not everything trandfers simply from one enterprise to the other.

Until theres more money to be made ibeef, I don't think farmers in this sector should be expected (or will) put in any more effort than is necessary. Why make life hard?

No damage done this year is only slight compared to last year, though for the second year in arow there is less grass on the farm from when it was closed in the autumn.
Not many farmers that i know practice on/off grazing especially when supply is below demand and can't be filled with a couple of kilo's of meal, i prefer to go out by day and feed by night untill supply is adequate.
you made an interesting comment in

Until theres more money to be made ibeef

, maybe if more focus was made on stopping paddocks in early autumn and putting in some roadways it may make the enterprise more profitable and it shouldn't make life any harder, i know some suckler farmers who set up the farm like a dairy farm and go out early with just cows and calves graze stopped paddocks and the silage ground and keep all other stock in till they've enough grass.

Muckit

i prefer to go out by day and feed by night untill supply is adequate.

Sorry I mightn't have the right terminology, but that's what I was talking about by 'on/off grazing';) My point was that how could suckler farmers do this on fragmented farms??

maybe if more focus was made on stopping paddocks in early autumn and putting in some roadways it may make the enterprise more profitable

Farm roadways would bring with it many advantages, but are very costly. Also there's a big difference in driving in dairy cows for milking and trying to round up suckler cows with calves!:D

I do agree with you that suckler farmers could learn a bit more about trying to get grass growing earlier, if this were possible. I was always of the opinion (rightly or wrongly) that paddocks were better to be cleaned off well in autumn to allow light into grow new grass in spring. But I also know that you need grass to grow grass so perhaps you are right

funny man

Sorry I mightn't have the right terminology, but that's what I was talking about by 'on/off grazing' My point was that how could suckler farmers do this on fragmented farms??

I may be wrong but on/off grazing is letting stock out for a few hours and then back to the shed to prevent poaching, in some cases they would not get any feed when they come in (this is the bit i have a problem with) and they would have to take in 90% of their requirements in two 3 hour bouts of grazing.yes your right it's not practical but to do this on beef farms but there are many benefits in turning some stock out early even on beef farms, it's not only cows that are turned out early on a dairy farm, every year i pick out my lightest weignling heifers and put them to grass plus meal. They are on an out-farm and i built a roadway from the yard to the furthest fields, this lets me to get them out when conditions allow and i can run them in when the weather gets wet.
Dairy farmers didn't invent early grazing sheep farmers were at it for years before we coped on to it. all i can say is early grazing works, it triggers grass to grow faster when growth comes, you have better quality grass, and you will grow more of it.
On your last point of grazing tight in the autumn to let in light inthe spring is correct but i believe the practice of letting stock roam across the entire farm nipping off all regrowths depletes the plant and leaves it longer to get going in the spring so if you close down a farm field by field in mid-october you should have grass to let some stock out in early spring.

Muckit

So lads....

• Do ye buy the small bags/big bags?
• Do you get it delivered to your yard or collect it yourself?
• If you use big bags how do you handle them?
• If you use small bags, how do you handle them? (ie is pallet left on the ground or at a height, like on a trailer)
• Anyone get it contract spread?
• How do you decide type/how much to spread? (advisor/samples/own judgement?)

Use small bags myself as have small shaker and find it easier to gauge spread. Collect it and leave it on the trailer. Never got it contract spread, but neighbour gets whole farm blanket spread in spring. Usually gauge it bet myself /REPS planner, but this year decided to get soipl sample tested

bogman_bass

Get the whole farm blanket spread in the spring by the contractor.

if we do any additional spreading we drive the tractor up to the co-op 2 miles away and get it filled with bulk

Birdnuts

bogman_bass wrote: »

Get the whole farm blanket spread in the spring by the contractor.

if we do any additional spreading we drive the tractor up to the co-op 2 miles away and get it filled with bulk

Do you get your soil tested to see what exactly it needs or is money no object when it comes to the bagged stuff??

Do you account for any nutrients in slurry??

C0N0R

We use big bags handled with the grab on the back of the tractor. Delivered to us from the coop. We normally get a contractor in to spread the silage ground in spring and then spread the rest ourselves. We use our own judgement to decide what to spread and how much normally.

blue5000

I use 50kg bags
all delivered on to a loading bank
do soil samples every 5 yrs
in reps, no P allowed
Lot of clover so only use about 6-8 tons per yr on 120 ac approx,
Org N last yr 140kg
yes I allow for slurry nutrients.

funny man

Muckit wrote: »

So lads....

• Do ye buy the small bags/big bags?
• Do you get it delivered to your yard or collect it yourself?
• If you use big bags how do you handle them?
• If you use small bags, how do you handle them? (ie is pallet left on the ground or at a height, like on a trailer)
• Anyone get it contract spread?
• How do you decide type/how much to spread? (advisor/samples/own judgement?)

All big bags.
delivered.
lift over spreader
never got it contract spread.
soil samples; all can and cut sward on the silage ground.
most important off all lime status has to be right to get full response.

reilig

Muckit wrote: »

So lads....

• Do ye buy the small bags/big bags?
• Do you get it delivered to your yard or collect it yourself?
• If you use big bags how do you handle them?
• If you use small bags, how do you handle them? (ie is pallet left on the ground or at a height, like on a trailer)
• Anyone get it contract spread?
• How do you decide type/how much to spread? (advisor/samples/own judgement?)

-Usually big bags.
-Get it delivered.
-Share the spreader with a cousin who has a front loader. My tractor spreads, his loads. If it was only 1 spreader full going on I'd load it with a bucket - less than 5 mins and you have a bag that doesn't have the bottom cut and is useful for other things.
-No contract spreaders in our area.
- land gets regular soil samples. We normally spread slurry on all meadows and give a light sprinkle of urea on top. Soil samples will determine if we are to spread any other type of fertilizer.

keep going

walked the land yesterday and getting a super response to the urea spread on 20/1 .i always think you get a great spring after a frosty winter

Muckit

C0N0R wrote: »

We use big bags handled with the grab on the back of the tractor

I'm interested in this.
How do you manage to get high enough lift with the rear grab? Is it a tine grab that swings out on arms? Do you catch it on tines or use a chain around the frame of grab? I don't think our Mchale (on rear mast)would lift a half tonne bag high enough, especially if you hooked at tine level.

Reilig, I never even thought about bucketing out fertiliser out of the big bag. One way around it...;)

The fertiliser companies really baffle me.
The maximum recommended lifting amount for safe manual handling for an 'average man' is 30kg, and that's from waist height. Cement factories now only supply in 25kg bags. Bagged meal is the same. Even potatoes are sold now in 10kg bags or less, because obviously the recommended weight for women is less. So why haven't the fertiliser companies followed suit? There's not even a recommendation or warning sticker on the bag to say they should be handled by two men (even though in reality they aren't)

reilig

Muckit wrote: »

I'm interested in this.
How do you manage to get high enough lift with the rear grab? Is it a tine grab that swings out on arms? Do you catch it on tines or use a chain around the frame of grab? I don't think our Mchale (on rear mast)would lift a half tonne bag high enough, especially if you hooked at tine level.

Reilig, I never even thought about bucketing out fertiliser out of the big bag. One way around it...;)

The fertiliser companies really baffle me.
The maximum recommended lifting amount for safe manual handling for an 'average man' is 30kg, and that's from waist height. Cement factories now only supply in 25kg bags. Bagged meal is the same. Even potatoes are sold now in 10kg bags or less, because obviously the recommended weight for women is less. So why haven't the fertiliser companies followed suit? There's not even a recommendation or warning sticker on the bag to say they should be handled by two men (even though in reality they aren't)

Its not worth driving a couple of miles to borrow a tractor and loader for just 1 bag. The bucket will do it in a few minutes - especially if its urea which is very light in comparison to other fertilizers.

Muckit

What do lads think of spreading urea on grazing ground (at half the amount obviously) over CAN??

djmc

I very rarely buy bag fert nearly always spread slurry
Any time I do I used half ton bags and load with loader
If I did not have a suitable loader I would probably buy something like a chain lift http://cgi.ebay.ie/2-TON-INDUSTRIAL-CHAIN-BLOCK-ENGINE-HOIST-NO-2-3-5-LIFT-/400180674896?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5d2ca08150
and hang it of a strong gilder or steel upright on shed and use that.

Ozzie Scott

Birdnuts wrote: »

Do you get your soil tested to see what exactly it needs or is money no object when it comes to the bagged stuff??

Do you account for any nutrients in slurry??

Time lads to moving away from the idea of spreading fertiliser based on soil test results. A soil test is only pushed by teagasc et al. to keep bureaucracy happy. Soil tests account for jack all, regards to growing a good crop and for deciding nutritional requirements for that crop. I have grown some big crops on supposedly infertile land according to soil tests

reilig

Ozzie Scott wrote: »

Time lads to moving away from the idea of spreading fertiliser based on soil test results. A soil test is only pushed by teagasc et al. to keep bureaucracy happy. Soil tests account for jack all, regards to growing a good crop and for deciding nutritional requirements for that crop. I have grown some big crops on supposedly infertile land according to soil tests

Don't agree with you about soil tests being useless. But will agree with you about being able to grow a grood crop on poorer land. If you put enough fertilizer on the crop, it will grow well. My view of the soil test would be for it to tell you what type of fertilizer to put on. Why put on a fertilizer which is high in N, P and K when the ground is high in P and K and only needs N??

Soil tests will save you money. It won't tell you how much fertilizer to spread - the more you spread, the better the crop. But it will tell you what not to spread and save you money which is more important than ever with the price of fertilizer this year.

Ozzie Scott

reilig wrote: »

Don't agree with you about soil tests being useless. But will agree with you about being able to grow a grood crop on poorer land. If you put enough fertilizer on the crop, it will grow well. My view of the soil test would be for it to tell you what type of fertilizer to put on. Why put on a fertilizer which is high in N, P and K when the ground is high in P and K and only needs N??

Soil tests will save you money. It won't tell you how much fertilizer to spread - the more you spread, the better the crop. But it will tell you what not to spread and save you money which is more important than ever with the price of fertilizer this year.

So this fertiliser that you apply according to your soil tests, that say you now have X amount of NPK to grow a good crop, what happens if the plant is not able to access the nutrients? why does this happen? IF it happens do you consider what NPK you applied good value? Have you any idea how much P or K is naturally already in an acre of ground. Who initially designed the index system? hmm have a little think. "A fool and his money is easily parted" comes to mind regarding the index system

funny man

Ozzie Scott wrote: »

Time lads to moving away from the idea of spreading fertiliser based on soil test results. A soil test is only pushed by teagasc et al. to keep bureaucracy happy. Soil tests account for jack all, regards to growing a good crop and for deciding nutritional requirements for that crop. I have grown some big crops on supposedly infertile land according to soil tests

For someone with qualifications in this area i'm dissapointed by your misleading comments and they show a lack of understanding on soil fertility, if soil tests show that land is high in P or K should you spread some anyway or take your approach and spread none because "you have grown some good crops" what could be grown if the soil had proper nutrients? Some advisor you'd make!

reilig

Ozzie Scott wrote: »

So this fertiliser that you apply according to your soil tests, that say you now have X amount of NPK to grow a good crop, what happens if the plant be able to access the nutrients? Who initially designed the index system? hmm have a little think

What you're suggesting is a throw enough on and it will grow policy. We have taken regular soil samples on my land for the last 30 years and increased or decreased the amounts of N P and K that we have spread based on these tests and have always had one of the highest grass growth rates in our area.

Yes, if we didn't take the soil samples and spread fertilizer with ample amounts of N, P and K we would have got the same grass growth rates, but we would have spent a lot of extra money on fertilizer that we did not need.

Ozzie Scott

funny man wrote: »

C, if soil tests show that land is high in P or K should you spread some anyway or take your approach and spread none because "you have grown some good crops" what could be grown if the soil had proper nutrients? Some advisor you'd make!

Yes some advisor I would make alright:D. Soil testing is old hat. A soils test give a indication on whats in the soil the minute you test it. redo the test a week later and the NPK results will be very different. Also the lab test for Ph is a bit of a joke. Lots of sheep around to herd the flock in the desired mainstream direction

Ozzie Scott

reilig wrote: »

What you're suggesting is a throw enough on and it will grow policy. We have taken regular soil samples on my land for the last 30 years and increased or decreased the amounts of N P and K that we have spread based on these tests and have always had one of the highest grass growth rates in our area

No, I am far from saying throw enough on and it will grow, the exact opposite in fact. re read what I have posted and digest it. What im saying it doesnt matter what in the ground it matters whats in the plant. If you are selling earth, follow the index system, as im into selling plants and what they grow, following the index system wont increase the little money in my pocket. Must go as you will think im a hippy troll or something