teaching is for muppets

Fuinseog

once a highly respected profession, these days teachers are regarded by a largely uneducated population as a bunch of dossers. Because they 'do no work' their wages will be cut until they are at the minimum wage.

as a teacher you impart irrelevant knowledge to teenagers who could not care less. Nor indeed could their parents, who seem to regard teachers are lower beings.

You have parents constantly in your ear telling you their little Johnny can do no wrong and how incompetent you are and a principal who dreads complaints from parents and looks for a scapegoat.

your three months holidays are actually three months on the dole.

is this what teaching is all about or just the woes of a junior teacher?

looksee

Sounds about right. Just ignore the wider image though and carry on with the job you enjoy. I don't feel like a muppet!

gaeilgebeo

Fuinseog wrote: »

once a highly respected profession, these days teachers are regarded by a largely uneducated population as a bunch of dossers. Because they 'do no work' their wages will be cut until they are at the minimum wage.

as a teacher you impart irrelevant knowledge to teenagers who could not care less. Nor indeed could their parents, who seem to regard teachers are lower beings.

You have parents constantly in your ear telling you their little Johnny can do no wrong and how incompetent you are and a principal who dreads complaints from parents and looks for a scapegoat.

your three months holidays are actually three months on the dole.

is this what teaching is all about or just the woes of a junior teacher?

One of the worst posts I have ever read on this forum.

Fuinseog

looksee wrote: »

Sounds about right. Just ignore the wider image though and carry on with the job you enjoy. I don't feel like a muppet!

its hard carry on with the job, when everyone is an expert on education and the consensus amongst the general population is that any fool can teach.

Fuinseog

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

One of the worst posts I have ever read on this forum.

nach bhfuil rud eicint nios fearr le ra agat?

seriouslysweet

Cad is brí le, 'eicint'?

Insect Overlord

seriouslysweet wrote: »

Cad is brí le, 'eicint'?

"éigin", or some in English.

Godge

Fuinseog wrote: »

once a highly respected profession, these days teachers are regarded by a largely uneducated population as a bunch of dossers. Because they 'do no work' their wages will be cut until they are at the minimum wage.

as a teacher you impart irrelevant knowledge to teenagers who could not care less. Nor indeed could their parents, who seem to regard teachers are lower beings.

You have parents constantly in your ear telling you their little Johnny can do no wrong and how incompetent you are and a principal who dreads complaints from parents and looks for a scapegoat.

your three months holidays are actually three months on the dole.

is this what teaching is all about or just the woes of a junior teacher?

That is one of the most short-sighted and misguided posts I have ever seen.

There was a time when most of the teaching profession was better educated than the general population. That was 50 years ago. Nowadays, there are many who would argue that the quality of degrees from a university or institute of technology is far better than a B.Ed from St. Pats. That would mean that a significant chunk of the population is better educated than most primary teachers. In fact, it could be argued that around 70% of pupils would have a close relative (sibling, parent, aunt, grandparent) who is better educated then their teacher.

The truth is that the teaching profession has been slow to change to respond to the changing demands of modern well-educated parents who look at their tax bill, the cost of their child's education and, in the way of the modern educated consumer, query the value they are receiving. It is up to the teaching profession to step up to the mark and respond to the modern accountability demands.

As a parent, I have seen many excellent teachers but also some bad ones. I have never seen any bad teacher fired or disciplined. I have also seen many teachers give of their time before and after school. I have also seen other teachers turn up five minutes late and let their kids out first every afternoon and never be available outside of that. I have seen primary schools operate for 180 days and others for around 170 with little notice of closures. Parents nowadays are not blind, maybe they only see the bad, but the only ones who can change what the parents see are the teaching profession.

Unfortunately, led by their unions, I don't think they are up to the challenge.

Toto Wolfcastle

If you are going to post in Irish or in any language other than English then please post a translation in English. (Admin ruling: See this post)

implausible

You learn, eventually, to ignore the public perception of your profession and just get on with it.

No-one gets into teaching to be popular.

Fuinseog

deemark wrote: »

You learn, eventually, to ignore the public perception of your profession and just get on with it.

No-one gets into teaching to be popular.

unfortunately some principals expect you to be popular with the kids. popular with the kids is popular with the parents and the parent's happiness is what counts.

yurmothrintites

I don't agree at all. I think being respected by the children is far more important than being popular with the children and any decent principal will realise that.

dory

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

One of the worst posts I have ever read on this forum.

I would agree if this was coming from a non-teacher. But it seems it's a frustrated junior teacher. And he/she is not stating their opinion, but what they feel the public thinks of them.

Correct me if I'm wrong OP.

lily09

Godge wrote: »

That is one of the most short-sighted and misguided posts I have ever seen.

There was a time when most of the teaching profession was better educated than the general population. That was 50 years ago. Nowadays, there are many who would argue that the quality of degrees from a university or institute of technology is far better than a B.Ed from St. Pats. That would mean that a significant chunk of the population is better educated than most primary teachers. In fact, it could be argued that around 70% of pupils would have a close relative (sibling, parent, aunt, grandparent) who is better educated then their teacher.

How could this be argued?
Have you completed a B.ED? To get into the B.Ed a student needs over 460 points. The course itself is very intense and heavy. Yes to the brain surgeon it may seem the content is lighter, but so is the nature of the job. The methodologies and psychology behind teaching and learning are complex and a huge part of the course. I have a B.Ed and an M.Ed and take huge exception to your observations.

Fuinseog

dory wrote: »

I would agree if this was coming from a non-teacher. But it seems it's a frustrated junior teacher. And he/she is not stating their opinion, but what they feel the public thinks of them.

Correct me if I'm wrong OP.

well, what the public thinks of us influences our daily lives. the media is anti teacher as indeed are many members of the public. that business with the snow business did not help.
True, I am frustrated. if I worked at macdonalds I could be there for years and would get holiday pay. as a junior teacher you get gammy maternity leave contracts of a few months and travel around the country like a gypsy, indeed agypsy would have more stability. you cannot plan a life that way.
then you have the parents who are divorced or cannot deal with their little darlings and try to blame the teacher for all the problems and the junior tecaher is a handy scapegoat.

rainbowtrout

Fuinseog wrote: »

well, what the public thinks of us influences our daily lives. the media is anti teacher as indeed are many members of the public. that business with the snow business did not help.
True, I am frustrated. if I worked at macdonalds I could be there for years and would get holiday pay. as a junior teacher you get gammy maternity leave contracts of a few months and travel around the country like a gypsy, indeed agypsy would have more stability. you cannot plan a life that way.
then you have the parents who are divorced or cannot deal with their little darlings and try to blame the teacher for all the problems and the junior tecaher is a handy scapegoat.

Well go and work in McDonald's then. Just because you qualified as a teacher does not mean you are automatically entitled to a permanent job. Many teachers before you have done subbing, part-time jobs, maternity leaves, one year contracts. No, it's not ideal and it's a lot worse at the moment than it was a few years ago, but people doing the PGDE currently should be well aware of this and not think that they are somehow different and will land a permanent job on their doorstep the minute they're presented with their diploma. One of my friends got a job this year on full hours and it's looking like there are long term prospects in it. We are both teaching 10 years and she has been all over the place teaching. She's sick of it but that's the nature of the job.

And as for your comment about the parents and students, I'm quite amazed really. Some parents will blame the school/teachers etc for problems with their childen, they don't just blame 'junior teachers' they will lay the blame at any door they can. However what I'm really amazed at is the way you will just tar the students whose parents are divorced etc. Talk about a sweeping generalisation. There are plenty of students who behave badly who have two parents at home, just as there are plenty of students who are extremely well behaved that have divorced parents, only one parent etc.

I thought your first post was bad, they're just getting worse. Do you really want to teach at all?

gaeilgegrinds1

I taught two hours in one school, five in another for a year. Travelling between them was my life, it was hell but I did it and so do so many others. That's the reality of teaching.

Delphi91

gaeilgegrinds1 wrote: »

I taught two hours in one school, five in another for a year. Travelling between them was my life, it was hell but I did it and so do so many others. That's the reality of teaching.

My first two years of teaching involved teaching in THREE different schools each day, going from one to the other by bicycle - I didn't have a car. In some cases, I was only teaching one class in a school, so on wet days, it was a case of cycle to the school, take off the wet rain gear, hang it up in the staffroom, teach my class, then put the (still wet) rain gear back on again and head off to the next school. But I did it, 'cos I wanted to teach and I'm still in the job 24 years later (have a car now and I'm based in one school!).

gaeilgegrinds1

You win! And keep in mind, mine was a few years ago. It's even tougher now but genuinely I think if you're prepared to go out on a limb you'll get there eventually.

danbohan

Fuinseog wrote: »

its hard carry on with the job, when everyone is an expert on education and the consensus amongst the general population is that any fool can teach.

so far your doing a wonderful job in making that fact seem indeed plausible !

Godge

lily09 wrote: »

That is one of the most short-sighted and misguided posts I have ever seen.

There was a time when most of the teaching profession was better educated than the general population. That was 50 years ago. Nowadays, there are many who would argue that the quality of degrees from a university or institute of technology is far better than a B.Ed from St. Pats. That would mean that a significant chunk of the population is better educated than most primary teachers. In fact, it could be argued that around 70% of pupils would have a close relative (sibling, parent, aunt, grandparent) who is better educated then their teacher.

How could this be argued?
Have you completed a B.ED? To get into the B.Ed a student needs over 460 points. The course itself is very intense and heavy. Yes to the brain surgeon it may seem the content is lighter, but so is the nature of the job. The methodologies and psychology behind teaching and learning are complex and a huge part of the course. I have a B.Ed and an M.Ed and take huge exception to your observations.

Points bear no relation to the quality or otherwise of the degree. Neither does the intensity or workload.

It is easily argued. The insular nature of St. Pats and Mary I, their lack of professorial grades among the lecturing staff, the lack of PhD students, their only relatively recent status as colleges of universities, would point towards higher education institutes of lesser standing with consequent reflection on those holding those qualifications. Don't need to even go into course detail to make the argument (could add more weight if I wanted). Doesn't mean you have to accept the validity of the argument (also doesn't mean I accept the validity of the argument) but you only asked how could it be argued.

Seeing as you mention it, I have one degree and two masters from three separate higher education institutions.

P.S. Don't take exception. Make a logical argument.

TWarner

In case nobody’s noticed, scapegoating has become something of a national pastime and teachers are definitely in the frontline.
Try doing a search on teachers or public/civil servants in the Irish Economy section of these boards and have a listen to the anger and jealousy out there.

Its time teachers began defending themselves and debunked the myth that all teachers hold jobs for life, with huge pensions paid by the taxpayer, that they themselves haven’t paid any contributions to.

New pension scheme a disaster for young teachers – unions
The three teacher unions launched a report on November 4th showing that if government plans to change pension arrangements for public servants go ahead then teachers will pay more in contributions to the scheme than they will get out in pension benefits.

“Future teachers would be better off opting out of the proposed scheme, if allowed to do so, and investing an equivalent contribution into a PRSA.”
The value of teachers’ pensions has already been reduced significantly in 1995 and 2004. Since 1995, new teachers have an integrated pension, part paid by the Department of Education and Skills and part paid by the state through the PRSI system as with all insured workers. Since April 2004, new teachers have a standard retirement age of 65 and any retirement between ages 55 and 65 is on a cost neutral basis.

The OP has done himself or herself no favours with comments about an uneducated public and children of divorced parents.

However young teachers have a lot to complain and indeed worry about. I don’t blame them if they begin to wonder if it is a wise economic decision to continue teaching. I don’t blame them for complaining about the discipline problems in schools, the low status and lack of respect for teachers and teaching or the poor working conditions.

Are some of the members here suggesting that teaching is a vocation, rather than a job deserving of good working terms and conditions.
So far the advice to stop complaining seems to be coming from older posters who had to do one or two years subbing or part time work before getting a full time job.
The economic reality for younger teachers may be a lot worse than anything they had to temporarily endure, with the government deciding to worsen conditions of service, reduce staffing in shools, threaten job security and reduce pay and pensions.


I am a really good teacher and am open to any upgrading or improvement of skills on offer.
I was recently congratulated on the good work I was doing by the department’s inspector, so this is not about not loving the job or wanting to get away with shoddy work.

When I was a younger teacher in the 80’s and was looking for a permanent job, the thing that was said to me most often, in an effort to keep me quiet and stop me looking for better circumstances, was that I ought to be grateful for the part time hours I had.
I was grateful for 14 years and went through years of having no sick pay, no pension rights and drawing the dole during the holidays.
Now I have to buy back all those years missed in pension payments and along with all the other deductions this means that my take home pay is just over half my salary.
Having worked as a teacher for 31 years I still have not reached the top of my salary scale.
My advice would be to look around see what else you can do, keep your options open, increase your options if you can with further study or work experience, continue teaching if you can and you feel rewarded for it, look at your long time earnings as well, keep an eye on your future path and its possibilities.
Everything is relative of course, I’m a lot better off than many, I worked hard for that. Some people worked hard and lost everything, some hardly worked at all and begrudge me what I have.
I don’t think I should have to apologise, or be grateful for being a teacher. It’s a job, I do it well and I negotiate for the best pay and conditions I can get for myself and my colleagues.

Younger teachers should be shouting and complaining, maybe they wont word it as well as we would like but maybe they have circumstances and difficulties we ought to listen to.

cloneslad

I feel sorry for teachers who started their degrees 6-7 years ago with no knowledge of how the economy would tank and that getting a job would be so difficult, but it's probably harder to get a job as a nurse in Ireland than it is a teacher.

I agree with some of the other posters, yes it's a bad situation for younger recent grads to come out into, but you should not expect a job just because you have a degree in that field.

I have my degree and masters degree too (neither in education) and I wasn't able to walk into a job in that field. I've had to leave Ireland and come to Korea and teach English. Sure, it's not ideal, but it's work.

Get experience, build hours, network, get a full time job. Teaching is becoming more and more like any other public / private sector job in that aspect now.

sjms

Fuinseog wrote: »

then you have the parents who are divorced or cannot deal with their little darlings and try to blame the teacher for all the problems and the junior tecaher is a handy scapegoat.

I'm sorry but what is the problem with parents being divorced? That has absolutely no effect. Pretty irrelevant I think? I am pretty sure that parents who aren't divorced 'cannot deal with their little darlings and try to blame the teacher for all the problems and the junior tecaher is a handy scapegoat'.

Fuinseog

gaeilgegrinds1 wrote: »

I taught two hours in one school, five in another for a year. Travelling between them was my life, it was hell but I did it and so do so many others. That's the reality of teaching.

that is something that should really be made clear to dip students.

it would also appear that in some schools the only thing that counts for a full time position is that the teacher is well up on their rubgy, GAA or hockey.

I have met teachers who have no interest in their subject whatsoever and they do noy appear terribly competent in it either, yet they have full time positions.

Fuinseog

sjms wrote: »

I'm sorry but what is the problem with parents being divorced? That has absolutely no effect. Pretty irrelevant I think? I am pretty sure that parents who aren't divorced 'cannot deal with their little darlings and try to blame the teacher for all the problems and the junior tecaher is a handy scapegoat'.

parents who divorce very often produce an emotionally scared child, who brings his or her problems into school. the parents neither know how to deal with these problems nor want to deal with them. they off load their problems onto the school and hope they will be dealt with there. i have one case where the parents are divorced and neither parent wants the daughter to live with them. you can imagine what that does for the daughter.

peanuthead

Fuinseog wrote: »

that is something that should really be made clear to dip students.

To be fair, it is. Not just by the lecturers, but if you open your eyes and look around you, it's fairly obvious.

killbillvol2

Fuinseog wrote: »

once a highly respected profession, these days teachers are regarded by a largely uneducated population as a bunch of dossers. Because they 'do no work' their wages will be cut until they are at the minimum wage.

as a teacher you impart irrelevant knowledge to teenagers who could not care less. Nor indeed could their parents, who seem to regard teachers are lower beings.

You have parents constantly in your ear telling you their little Johnny can do no wrong and how incompetent you are and a principal who dreads complaints from parents and looks for a scapegoat.

your three months holidays are actually three months on the dole.

is this what teaching is all about or just the woes of a junior teacher?

Fuinseog wrote: »

that is something that should really be made clear to dip students.it would also appear that in some schools the only thing that counts for a full time position is that the teacher is well up on their rubgy, GAA or hockey.

I have met teachers who have no interest in their subject whatsoever and they do noy appear terribly competent in it either, yet they have full time positions.

Have you lived in a bubble?

Fuinseog wrote: »

parents who divorce very often produce an emotionally scared child, who brings his or her problems into school. the parents neither know how to deal with these problems nor want to deal with them. they off load their problems onto the school and hope they will be dealt with there. i have one case where the parents are divorced and neither parent wants the daughter to live with them. you can imagine what that does for the daughter.

It's clear from your whingeing posts that you're not suited to teaching but that's just the final straw. Look around you - there's not a classroom in the country without numerous children whose parents are separated/divorced/hate each others guts. Deal with it! Your hangups about the issue certainly won't benefit the child involved.

I have bad news for you - dealing with emotionally scarred kids is part of the job.

Fuinseog

peanuthead wrote: »

To be fair, it is. Not just by the lecturers, but if you open your eyes and look around you, it's fairly obvious.

maybe it depends on where you do the dip. when you are at college you in a bubble to a large extent. you learn little of any practical use during the dip.

Fuinseog

killbillvol2 wrote:

I have bad news for you - dealing with emotionally scarred kids is part of the job.

well know it isn't. its a therapist's or social worker's job, neither for which I trained. my job is to teach them the subject and correct their homework.

rainbowtrout

Fuinseog wrote: »

well know it isn't. its a therapist's or social worker's job, neither for which I trained. my job is to teach them the subject and correct their homework.

You really have no idea what teaching involves then, perhaps you should look at a different career. Children bring their problems into the classroom and you as the teacher in the classroom have to deal with them, like it or not.

EoghanRua

Fuinseog wrote: »

well know it isn't. its a therapist's or social worker's job, neither for which I trained. my job is to teach them the subject and correct their homework.

This is a reality that might come dropping slow for you but it will surely dawn on you eventually.

Like many things during the Dip it is only with practical application that I see the value of one of the standard lines during the Dip: 'you are not teaching a subject, you are teaching a student'. Very true it is.

For example, I don't teach History - I teach a student who told me during the Christmas test 'I can't read this ****'. And he genuinely couldn't read it. His failure to have a book for the entire term has blinded me a little (as did my inexperience) to the fact that he cannot read. I also teach a guy who got 100 per cent in the Christmas test and would do so irrespective of who was teaching him, and asks me for advice on the Irish course etc. as it gives a second opinion alongside his own teacher's.

I could understand someone who has never taught thinking that you go in deliver a standard 'lecture', correct the homework and go home. But anyone who has experience of the classroom with its eclectic personalities/conflicts/undertones will know that they face many students who don't want to be there and are quick to impose attitude on the rest of the class, and many who are coming from dysfunctional backgrounds and - oddly - are unthinking enough not to leave this outside the classroom just to suit the teacher, and many who simply have no education in their backgrounds and as a result have little meas on the whole business.

All of that has to be dealt with, and you have to get these people to do homework before correcting it is an issue. Your views on the role of a teacher are astonishing for someone with actual classroom experience.

EoghanRua

Godge wrote: »

In fact, it could be argued that around 70% of pupils would have a close relative (sibling, parent, aunt, grandparent) who is better educated then their teacher.

To what end would this argument be made? If someone is not educated in a relevant area then comparisons are meaningless. This thing of 'better educated' is immeasurable nebulous - and often self-serving - nonsense. Outside of the humanities most 'education' is employment training anyway.

Fuinseog

I see a number of very defensive answers to my post, but do none of you ever stop to wonder what its all about?

it seems to mean at times that teachers can be a mercenary bunch. at a union meeting older teachers do not care about the changes that are taking place because it will not really affect them and the younger ones do realise what changes are coming in.

Fuinseog

EoghanRua wrote: »

To what end would this argument be made? If someone is not educated in a relevant area then comparisons are meaningless. This thing of 'better educated' is immeasurable nebulous - and often self-serving - nonsense. Outside of the humanities most 'education' is employment training anyway.

I think the poster was bewailing the poor level of education some teachers have. Our European counterparts generally hold a masters. Very often language teachers hear are not fluent in the language they are supposed to be teaching and can barely hold a conversation in the language of expertise. I find that sad and it rubs off on the pupils.

Fuinseog

rainbowtrout wrote: »

You really have no idea what teaching involves then, perhaps you should look at a different career. Children bring their problems into the classroom and you as the teacher in the classroom have to deal with them, like it or not.

that kind of thinking is antiquated left wing ideology, which has failed. It is the kind of thinking that lets a gurrier away with murder and tries to constantly come up with excuses for bad behaviour. A proper school will have Guidance teachers or chaplins to deal with the kids emotional problems or who need 'time outs'.

Irish_Elect_Eng

Fuinseog wrote: »

that kind of thinking is antiquated left wing ideology, which has failed. It is the kind of thinking that lets a gurrier away with murder and tries to constantly come up with excuses for bad behaviour. A proper school will have Guidance teachers or chaplins to deal with the kids emotional problems or who need 'time outs'.

OP, I hope that my children have the good fortune never to be taught by a teacher like you.

UDAWINNER

a bit off topic, but the OP says that the 3 Months off in the Summer is 3 Months on the dole, is this true? Heard this years ago but thought it was ridiculous.

seavill

I have been a follower of boards for some time but have never posted before. That was until I continued to read the replies from the OP.

I am a young teacher who has been in 3 different schools in 4 years due to the conditions. However, I do not think I have ever come across the attitude towards students and towards the profession in general presented here by Fuinseog.

I honestly cannot believe that someone in our profession, someone young to the profession can have that attitude towards their students. Indeed our job is to teach the students the curriculum in whatever subject it may be however each student is an indiviual and will bring their own problems and experiences into your classroom. Indeed there are chaplins etc. in schools to deal with certain issues however that does no stop them coming into your classroom. You are there to educate the group of individuals in front of you. That is your job, not as someone mentioned before to turn up for 40 mins and correct a bit of homework.

It is due to attitudes like yours that some members of the general public have such a poor view of teachers. I really can't believe the post about divorced parents. How an educated professional can firstly think that and secondly acutally publically say it is beyond belief.

I genuienly do think as others have said that you are in the wrong career. Some people do get into it for the wrong reasons and it is these people who give us all the bad name, and I am afriad from reading your posts Fuinseog that you belong in this small group.

gaeilgebeo

Fuinseog wrote: »

I think the poster was bewailing the poor level of education some teachers have. Our European counterparts generally hold a masters. Very often language teachers hear are not fluent in the language they are supposed to be teaching and can barely hold a conversation in the language of expertise. I find that sad and it rubs off on the pupils.

Well you are obviously highly educated so.

I really find your attitude hard to believe.
You come across extremely naiive and immature considering you are currently teaching.
I am a language teacher and I am fluent, however, I have come across many "native" Irish speakers who didn't necessarily make great teachers.
With regard to children of "divorced" parents, I was one of them, I certainly had no "emotional baggage" or issues in school.
Plenty of the students in our school who have the "issues" you talk about, come from 2 parent families.
Being able to deal with such students, being able to make a connection with them and teach them in spite of their issues are what makes an inspiring teacher.
Such children are part of everyday reality in teaching.
I pity the students who come into your classroom with your attitude.

Fuinseog

UDAWINNER wrote: »

a bit off topic, but the OP says that the 3 Months off in the Summer is 3 Months on the dole, is this true? Heard this years ago but thought it was ridiculous.

there is a wide variety of contracts out there. with some you get paid until August, but more often than not until May or at best June.

Fuinseog

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

Well you are obviously highly educated so.

I really find your attitude hard to believe.
You come across extremely naiive and immature considering you are currently teaching.
I am a language teacher and I am fluent, however, I have come across many "native" Irish speakers who didn't necessarily make great teachers.
With regard to children of "divorced" parents, I was one of them, I certainly had no "emotional baggage" or issues in school.
Plenty of the students in our school who have the "issues" you talk about, come from 2 parent families.
Being able to deal with such students, being able to make a connection with them and teach them in spite of their issues are what makes an inspiring teacher.
Such children are part of everyday reality in teaching.
I pity the students who come into your classroom with your attitude.

attack the post, not the poster. just because i have a different outlook does not mean I am 'immature'.

there are a variety of schools out there and maybe teachers should be compensated if they have to work in an inner city school instead of say a private school, where the students are better behaved.

gaeilgebeo

Fuinseog wrote: »

attack the post, not the poster. just because i have a different outlook does not mean I am 'immature'.

there are a variety of schools out there and maybe teachers should be compensated if they have to work in an inner city school instead of say a private school, where the students are better behaved.

Not all "tough" schools are inner-city or anywhere near a city.

rainbowtrout

Fuinseog wrote: »

attack the post, not the poster. just because i have a different outlook does not mean I am 'immature'.

there are a variety of schools out there and maybe teachers should be compensated if they have to work in an inner city school instead of say a private school, where the students are better behaved.

Have you worked in an inner city school and in a private school? Private school students can bring in the same problems, except perhaps the type of problems where there is not enough food on the table as I imagine if they can afford private school fees, they can afford the basics needed for a normal standard of living.

There you go again tarring children from inner city school. Some will have problems, yes, but not all.

If you think for a second that teachers don't have to deal with students problems because of the existence of a chaplain/counsellor you are very much mistaken. Children don't leave their problems at the door when they enter the classroom despite help from counsellors etc. Many children even prefer to confide in a particular teacher that they trust. All I can say is god help any child who has the misfortune to sit in your class, because it doesn't seem like they will get any sympathy from you whatever their situation.

bmarley

deemark wrote: »

You learn, eventually, to ignore the public perception of your profession and just get on with it.

No-one gets into teaching to be popular.

Children and parents are part of the equation - what about partnership with parents?

EoghanRua

Fuinseog wrote: »

I think the poster was bewailing the poor level of education some teachers have. Our European counterparts generally hold a masters. Very often language teachers hear are not fluent in the language they are supposed to be teaching and can barely hold a conversation in the language of expertise. I find that sad and it rubs off on the pupils.

I am not able to speak in generalities with the same confidence as you but I had to do half my job interview through Irish so please be less sweeping with your generalisations. Anyone in that situation who couldn't hold a conversation is quickly found out. But perhaps you have wider research done on the matter which allows you to comment.

As for the "poor level of education" some teachers have...I get the impression that if 'some' teachers walked on water you'd criticise them for not being able to swim...unlike the ever referenceable 'european counterparts'.

seavill

there are a variety of schools out there and maybe teachers should be compensated if they have to work in an inner city school instead of say a private school, where the students are better behaved.[/QUOTE]


Are you actually serious? I really cannot believe your posts OP. They are getting more shocking each time.

Do you want a medal for doing your job? As someone said I really do pity some of the children that come into contact with you. Shocking statements about divorced parents, inner city children etc.

Some of the nicest kids I have met are from inner city schools and divorced families. Much nicer than some others I taught in other schools but you find all types in all schools. Possibly the fact that you have issues with those children is obvious to them and as a result they do not want to make the effort with you. You are a victim of your own attitudes. I for one know that if I had a teacher with those attitudes i would be less than friendly with them. A proper teacher is one who is interested in ALL students and is able to relate to ALL their students, not just the ones who will sit quietly, not annoy you and probably get their A or B with or without your help.

I really do hope that the opinions you express here are expressed by you in your staff room daily and that the principal learns of your views.

killbillvol2

Well it's pretty clear at this stage why the OP has a chip on his/her shoulder.

The kids have no respect for you because they can clearly sense that you have none for them. Their parents likewise.

You don't have anything approaching a permanent job because it must be pretty obvious to some, if not all, of your colleagues that you completely lack the empathy with children required to function as an effective teacher (left wing ideology!). It must also have come to their attention that you have no respect for them. I hope your current principal has the good sense to drum you out the door at the earliest opportunity.

You wonder why teachers have a bad name with the general public? It's because of people like you.

You have absolutely nothing to offer to children. Find another career before you do any more damage to the children in your care.

seavill

killbillvol2 wrote: »

The kids have no respect for you because they can clearly sense that you have none for them. Their parents likewise.

You don't have anything approaching a permanent job because it must be pretty obvious to some, if not all, of your colleagues that you completely lack the empathy with children required to function as an effective teacher (left wing ideology!). It must also have come to their attention that you have no respect for them. I hope your current principal has the good sense to drum you out the door at the earliest opportunity.

You wonder why teachers have a bad name with the general public? It's because of people like you.

You have absolutely nothing to offer to children. Find another career before you do any more damage to the children in your care.

I must say that is a very truthfull (some may say harsh) post but I don't think I cud agree any more and I think a lot of people will agree 100 % with that.

lumo22

Fuinseog wrote: »

attack the post, not the poster. just because i have a different outlook does not mean I am 'immature'.

there are a variety of schools out there and maybe teachers should be compensated if they have to work in an inner city school instead of say a private school, where the students are better behaved.

In fairnees you're not immature, just clueless.

cloneslad

This has all turned into a pointless argument now. The OP is the only person agreeing with his/her statements while the other 15-20 people replying are joined together convinced he / she is wrong.

I have to say, I'm with the majority on this. I may be wrong but I think the OP is either trolling or very very clued out on his her/her profession, and quite possibly the entire working sector.

I think this thread has run its course, it has for me anyway, and I won't be reading anymore because it's just going to get personal.