How would you sum up Fianna Fails Failure?

paky

If you were to give a chronological of events of Fianna Fail in government what would it be?

Laminations

1997: Oh whats this, a nice well educated low cost export driven competitive economy you are handing us, thanks.

1998: Mmmm, FDI lets have it

2000: We have lots of money, lets spend it all

2001: People want ****, let em have it, lets not regulate anything

2002: Buy an election

2003: Stoke a property bubble:

2004-2007: Short termist incompetent economic policies that drive the country into the floor

2007: Bertie bails for life in the closet, big fat pension, no remorse, uses his Dail time to go on book signings and lecture tours

2008: Oh crap, this is bad but lets not tell anyone - 'the fundamentals of our banking system are sound', 'we are not going into the banks without knowing the extent of the debts'. Ridiculously optimistic forecasts

2009: Downhill, but wait, we turn a corner...... aaaaand it gets worse.

2010: 3 corners later and the country is in hock, we've lost economic sovergnity, FFers say we can have our say come election but they'll do as they please til then. Cowen maintains he'll lead the party to election

2011: FFers jump ship with hefty undeserved pensions, Cowen bows out and none of us get the satisfaction of not returning these twits to their seats. But don't despair, FF have a plan, VOTE FF!!!

hallelujajordan

Laminations wrote: »

FF have a plan, VOTE FF!!!

Here here !! Thanks for your support

mike65

Laminations you forgot "social partnership" (ha!) or does that fall into

2000: We have lots of money, lets spend it all

Tragedy

Laminations wrote: »

1997: Oh whats this, a nice well educated low cost export driven competitive economy you are handing us, thanks.

I see, another denial of Ray McSharry's existence. The best I'll get from you(MAYBE) is a claim that the good done by him is purely down to the Tallaght Strategy and really wasn't down to McSharry.

Have a look atwhat happened after the budget of 1987: http://www.irishtimes.com/focus/2010/bailoutgraphic/index.pdf

Laminations

Tragedy wrote: »

I see, another denial of Ray McSharry's existence. The best I'll get from you(MAYBE) is a claim that the good done by him is purely down to the Tallaght Strategy and really wasn't down to McSharry.

Have a look atwhat happened after the budget of 1987: http://www.irishtimes.com/focus/2010/bailoutgraphic/index.pdf

Well the thread title is 'FF failure'. And I'm realising I've forgotten many, withholding by-elections being one quite recent example. Do you want me to list FF successes? I don't think I'd include McSharry, booted out over scandal but unsurprisingly welcomed back to the bosom.

FF successes:

1999: being a part of the good Friday agreement and bringing peace to NI, very much building on the work of others

2002: plastic bag levy

2004: smoking ban

2010-2011: self destruction

Tragedy

Laminations wrote: »

Well the thread title is 'FF failure'. And I'm realising I've forgotten many, withholding by-elections being one quite recent example. Do you want me to list FF successes? I don't think I'd include McSharry, booted out over scandal but unsurprisingly welcomed back to the bosom.

FF successes:

1999: being a part of the good Friday agreement and bringing peace to NI, very much building on the work of others

2002: plastic bag levy

2004: smoking ban

2010-2011: self destruction

That's nice, I was just pointing out that you were wrong and ill informed though, so blather at someone else as I'm not really interested in what someone who can't get basic facts right and when informed of being wrong, his only response is "this thread is about FF failures" has to say. That's fantastic, you were still wrong and refuse to admit it instead attacking some more.

whoopdedoo

Fianna Fail politicians, supporters, financiers and all have a hand in the complete bollix for a history they have created for themselves.

Nobody held a gun to any of their heads so not one of them can blame anyone but themselves for the misfortune they brought on the whole country!

Browney7

23rd March 1926: Fianna Fail was founded :rolleyes:

The Volt

what about Minister Andrews digging up the railways in the 60s? FF have been making a balls of things for decades.

scr123

Why do the ABFF fail to highlight the main FF failures

1 Doubling the workforce

2 Allowing full employment to happen

3 Allowing emigration to stop

4 Allowing unemployment to drop below 12%

In the now billions of words written about FF in last 3 years not once have I seen the above failures noted

I hope I will not be reported for making such an insulting and insensitive post.

drBill

scr123 wrote: »

Why do the ABFF fail to highlight the main FF failures

1 Doubling the workforce

2 Allowing full employment to happen

3 Allowing emigration to stop

4 Allowing unemployment to drop below 12%

In the now billions of words written about FF in last 3 years not once have I seen the above failures noted

I hope I will not be reported for making such an insulting and insensitive post.

Can I just point out that you forgot to include the word 'temporarily' at the end of each of the above four points.

Laminations

Tragedy wrote: »

That's nice, I was just pointing out that you were wrong and ill informed though, so blather at someone else as I'm not really interested in what someone who can't get basic facts right and when informed of being wrong, his only response is "this thread is about FF failures" has to say. That's fantastic, you were still wrong and refuse to admit it instead attacking some more.

You're a FFer right?
I don't think you get to accuse anyone else of being wrong and illinformed. I was 'still wrong' about what? That FF were handed a functioning economy in the 90s and fvcked it up? What does Ray McSharry and the 80s have to do with that? Next you'll be bringing up Jack Lynch and Sean Lemass. Hilarious, a FFer talking about basic facts

Tragedy.... yeah that name suits

Laminations

scr123 wrote: »

Why do the ABFF fail to highlight the main FF failures

1 Doubling the workforce

2 Allowing full employment to happen

3 Allowing emigration to stop

4 Allowing unemployment to drop below 12%

In the now billions of words written about FF in last 3 years not once have I seen the above failures noted

I hope I will not be reported for making such an insulting and insensitive post.

I've tackled you on this on another thread but you failed to respond to my debunking of those 'achievements'. Do you think transient achievements are more laudible than long term economic health and stability? Do you not recognise that those achievements have mostly been cancelled out?

Laminations wrote: »

Ya see, FF die hards like you fail to see the fleeting nature of those achievements and fail to recognise that those achievements were made as short term unsustainable gains at the expense of longer term stability in the economy. They gave us a good party, that was all, and if you think thats a good way to run a country....

I'm sure you think a good date involves a quick hand shandy followed by 3 hours of being kicked in the face. Thats what FF have done, so you can concentrate on the hand shandy part all you want but the 3 hours of face kicking ruin it for most.

Achievements need to be built on solid foundations, not fleeting booms exploited to win elections

RGDATA!

scr123 wrote: »

Why do the ABFF fail to highlight the main FF failures

1 Doubling the workforce

2 Allowing full employment to happen

3 Allowing emigration to stop

4 Allowing unemployment to drop below 12%

In the now billions of words written about FF in last 3 years not once have I seen the above failures noted

If I go to the races with my pockets full of money and back the winner in the first, then after that first race I'd be well in profit.

If however I spend the rest of the day backing losers, lose all my initial funds, borrowing heavily to fund more losing punts - could I then turn around at the end of the day and call myself a winner because of that first race?

scr123 wrote: »

I hope I will not be reported for making such an insulting and insensitive post.

Sarcasm is not your strong point obviously. Your post isn't insulting or insensitive, just wrong-headed. Why would anyone report it? It's testament to your delusion.

whoopdedoo

drBill wrote: »

Can I just point out that you forgot to include the word 'temporarily' at the end of each of the above four points.

exactly, only good any FF supporter can point to is not worth a fiddlers fcuk to many right now so off with their motha fcukin heads already for the love of all that is good!!

Fr0g

They took over a strong economy based on manufacturing and exports ( a proper, sound economy based on strong fundamentals that any country would be grateful for and proud of). They flooded this economy with money by slashing taxes (short-term populism) between 1997 and 2000. This had the inevitable effect of driving up inflation putting upward pressure on wages. This in turn reduced our competitiveness. Factories began to close at an alarming rate starting in 2000. Our productivity droppped. By 2002 the economy was in decline.

Following the 911 attack greenspan dropped interest rates down to historically low levels. From 2002/3 the banks, with more money than were competent to handle, started completely losing the run of themselves while Ahern/Cowen looked the other way. The economy transitioned to one based almost completely on credit while ahern/cowen made declarations of "sound fundamentals" and "...our banks are incredibly well capitalised".

The celtic tiger died about 2001/2 destroyed by FF. everything since then merely concealed that fact with borrowed money.

The bill for this incompetence and criminal mismanagement has been slowly transferred on to the taxpayer since September 2008. And it continues...

Yes unemployment dropped but it was in a fake economy.

peasant

You only need one word to sum it up:

Incompetence

Total and utter incompetence at anything other than lining their own (and friends') pockets.

Tragedy

Laminations wrote: »

You're a FFer right?

I'm a nothing, I don't believe any party will offer a serious change and chance at political reform, and disregarding bad parties, the only vaguely good candidate in my constituency is an independent. That's completely none of your business though, and just an attempt to demonise me because I proved you were wrong and you hate it

I don't think you get to accuse anyone else of being wrong and illinformed.

I get to accuse anyone I want of being wrong and ill informed, and unlike many I always prove my accusations. As I already have with you. Sorry it galls you so much though!

I was 'still wrong' about what? That FF were handed a functioning economy in the 90s and fvcked it up? What does Ray McSharry and the 80s have to do with that? Next you'll be bringing up Jack Lynch and Sean Lemass.

I'm not going to repeat myself, you were wrong, I've shown how, accept it and move on instead of floundering into the ridiculous. What does a budget that cut our deficit to almost nothing in 1987 have to do with leading into an economic recovery? According to you, nothing. According to anyone with a clue, everything.

Hilarious, a FFer talking about basic facts

Attack the post and not the poster. That's what your 'rebuttal' come down to, crying out that even though you were wrong, because you hope im FF that means youre actually right.

chughes

93 billion euros. That's about the sum of it.

Laminations

Tragedy wrote: »

I'm not going to repeat myself, you were wrong, I've shown how, accept it and move on instead of floundering into the ridiculous. What does a budget that cut our deficit to almost nothing in 1987 have to do with leading into an economic recovery? According to you, nothing. According to anyone with a clue, everything.

You wouldn't have to repeat yourself if you were clear in the first place. So clarify where I was wrong and how you corrected me. I gave a timeline of FFs destruction of a healthy economy that was handed to them in the late 90s. What does anything McSharry did in the 80s have to do with that timeline?

I'll make it easy to understand. Imagine pass the parcel. You hand me a nice parcel in good condition and later I hand you back a nice parcel in good condition. You smash this against the wall and hand me back the pieces. Now at that stage it matters not that you initially handed over the thing in good condition as you got it back in just as good (if not better) condition.

rodento

As far as I can tell, they where really unlucky not to loose the last election

jmayo

scr123 wrote: »

Why do the ABFF fail to highlight the main FF failures

1 Doubling the workforce

2 Allowing full employment to happen

3 Allowing emigration to stop

4 Allowing unemployment to drop below 12%

In the now billions of words written about FF in last 3 years not once have I seen the above failures noted

I hope I will not be reported for making such an insulting and insensitive post.

Eh you forgot

• allowing one of the biggest property bubbles in history, relative to eocnomy.
• allowing our three major banks and two building societies become insolvent
• allowing the top developers walk away form their debts and dump them on the taxpayers
• allowing the need for the IMF and ECB to have to come into bail us out.
• allowing the top bankers walk away from their responsibilites
• allowing the top incompetent regulatory staff and public sector ceos walk way with handsome payoffs after making a pigs mickey of their jobs

RGDATA! wrote: »

If I go to the races with my pockets full of money and back the winner in the first, then after that first race I'd be well in profit.

If however I spend the rest of the day backing losers, lose all my initial funds, borrowing heavily to fund more losing punts - could I then turn around at the end of the day and call myself a winner because of that first race?

Sarcasm is not your strong point obviously. Your post isn't insulting or insensitive, just wrong-headed. Why would anyone report it? It's testament to your delusion.

Good analogy.
ffers are sure to understand now that it is explained in horse betting parlance.

DrumSteve

how would I sum it up? Epic.

kincsem

Dont forget to put in that timeline job creation Fianna Fail style. Useless quangos, useful for giving jobs to our people.

In Wasters by Shane Ross and Nick Webb
"Varadker determined that there were 2,416 people sitting on the boards of these quangos, all at the whim of their political masters".

Tragedy

Laminations wrote: »

You wouldn't have to repeat yourself if you were clear in the first place. So clarify where I was wrong and how you corrected me. I gave a timeline of FFs destruction of a healthy economy that was handed to them in the late 90s. What does anything McSharry did in the 80s have to do with that timeline?

I'll make it easy to understand. Imagine pass the parcel. You hand me a nice parcel in good condition and later I hand you back a nice parcel in good condition. You smash this against the wall and hand me back the pieces. Now at that stage it matters not that you initially handed over the thing in good condition as you got it back in just as good (if not better) condition.

You're making what easy to understand? The fact that you were wrong, when challenged on it changed the subject and went on the attack, when challenged on it again, again changed the subject and went on the attack and finally resort to claiming that a series of budgets in the late 80's, could have nothing to do with the economic climate 7-10 years later. Using your exact "logic", FF budgets between 2000 and 2003 could have had nothing to do with our economic problems now and anyone who says otherwise is a fool.
And yes, that is identical 'logic' to yours.

I explained it simply, easily and even linked the relevant graph showing the budget deficits as a % of GNP. What more do you want to prove that the rainbow coalition didn't take over a broken economy and hand back a fixed one?
It's incredibly clearly shown with the graphs as to the timeline of the Celtic tiger, ill give you a hint: it proves everything I've said and disproves you. Probably why you're so intent on ignoring it instead constantly attacking.

Ah well.

nesf

Laminations wrote: »

You're a FFer right?
I don't think you get to accuse anyone else of being wrong and illinformed. I was 'still wrong' about what? That FF were handed a functioning economy in the 90s and fvcked it up? What does Ray McSharry and the 80s have to do with that? Next you'll be bringing up Jack Lynch and Sean Lemass. Hilarious, a FFer talking about basic facts

Tragedy.... yeah that name suits

Attack the post, not the poster.

dan_d

After a crap start to a Monday morning, where I was told that the company I've just started with have to let me go, due to a lack of work, the sum of FF's failures to me, in my life, is that I'm paying for something I had no hand, act or part in.

I dare any politician of any age, creed or belief to cross my doorstep in the next few weeks. I will not be responsible for what I might say to them.

I appreciate that I'm extremely upset and emotional right now, but you know what, I think I have a right to be. My options are to leave my industry and try and scrimp and re-educate myself from scratch again,(somehow, I've no idea how) or to emigrate.The black hole that is unemployment is staring me in the face,yet again, and I don't know how I'm going to get through it.Again.

Right there - that's Fianna Fail's failures.And also the failures of every politician out there. The absolute destruction that they have wrought on the families and people of this country. It goes far far beyond 92 billion euro, busted banks or unoccupied buildings. They've literally destroyed the lives of how many people in this country, and the scars that will be left in future generations will run deep.

Laminations

Tragedy wrote: »

What more do you want to prove that the rainbow coalition didn't take over a broken economy and hand back a fixed one?

When did I ask you to prove that? Point out where I disputed that? I didn't, I merely said it's irrelevant to the point I'm making, which is that FF messed up a functioning economy that they were handed - do you disagree with that point? Just like pass the parcel it's irrelevant how many rounds we have handing each other nice intact parcels before you smash it against the wall and hand back the pieces. It doesn't matter that FF handed over an improving economy as they were handed back a better one and that's the direction of progress that's expected. If it makes you feel better you can add in two points before my timeline starts

Late 80s: FF hand over healthy improving economy
Mid to Late 90s: FG hand over healthy booming economy.

How does that change the fact that FF then wrecked the economy?

Laminations

Sorry to hear dan_d

WakeUp

paky wrote: »

If you were to give a chronological of events of Fianna Fail in government what would it be?

One after the other after the other for a long time.

scr123

dan_d wrote: »

After a crap start to a Monday morning, where I was told that the company I've just started with have to let me go, due to a lack of work, the sum of FF's failures to me, in my life, is that I'm paying for something I had no hand, act or part in.

I dare any politician of any age, creed or belief to cross my doorstep in the next few weeks. I will not be responsible for what I might say to them.

I appreciate that I'm extremely upset and emotional right now, but you know what, I think I have a right to be. My options are to leave my industry and try and scrimp and re-educate myself from scratch again,(somehow, I've no idea how) or to emigrate.The black hole that is unemployment is staring me in the face,yet again, and I don't know how I'm going to get through it.Again.

Right there - that's Fianna Fail's failures.And also the failures of every politician out there. The absolute destruction that they have wrought on the families and people of this country. It goes far far beyond 92 billion euro, busted banks or unoccupied buildings. They've literally destroyed the lives of how many people in this country, and the scars that will be left in future generations will run deep.

I feel for anyone who has lost their job. This coming from a FF supporter will be treated with disdain and ignored.

People can blame FF for what they like and they do but this covers up simple economic facts.

Recessions happen and nobody in the world knows how to stop them, raging blind political hatred does nothing to help any individual or group.

Governments everywhere are repeatedly faced with the necessity to impose acute deflationery measures. Its a fact of economic life

Governments here from 1973 to 1981 refused to deflate
Governments from 1982 to 1992 did deflate

The best tool to deflate is doing nothing to stimulate employment when recession happens. The government since 2008 have done nothing and the next government will do nothing, in fact the next government will continue with deflation for years.

We do not talk about the cold facts of economics in this country, we much prefer to get into a political rage and blame the government. We crazily believe the government is responsible for our plight when we lose a job or interest rates climb.

Recessions create innocent victims and many of those victims see themselves as failures. This is patently wrong and the innocent victim must take a hard look at him/herself and examine what are the options for the future. As an older person I can quote my own experiences over the years but this is not good enough. What I do say to people hit by this recession is ask what are the 87% of people who are working doing that allowed them to avoid the impact of the recession. Within that 87% there are huge amount of careers and people leave jobs, die, retire and emigrate voluntarily. In other words study the working market closely and not allow oneself to concentrate on the other victims of the recession.
In 12 months FF will be forgotten and the blame will switch to the new government. Blaming politicians is a useless exercise for anyone unemployed, if I was unemployed I would be saying to myself " there is someone out there who needs me and I will search for that someone till I drop from from effort"

ei.sdraob

two words:

epic fail



I am having a hard time finding an epic fail image to convey our Fail, and just to remind people the Greens where in the boat too with FF as summed up in this classic facepalm

dan_d

scr123 wrote: »

I feel for anyone who has lost their job. This coming from a FF supporter will be treated with disdain and ignored.

People can blame FF for what they like and they do but this covers up simple economic facts.

Recessions happen and nobody in the world knows how to stop them, raging blind political hatred does nothing to help any individual or group.

Governments everywhere are repeatedly faced with the necessity to impose acute deflationery measures. Its a fact of economic life

Governments here from 1973 to 1981 refused to deflate
Governments from 1982 to 1992 did deflate

The best tool to deflate is doing nothing to stimulate employment when recession happens. The government since 2008 have done nothing and the next government will do nothing, in fact the next government will continue with deflation for years.

We do not talk about the cold facts of economics in this country, we much prefer to get into a political rage and blame the government. We crazily believe the government is responsible for our plight when we lose a job or interest rates climb.

Recessions create innocent victims and many of those victims see themselves as failures. This is patently wrong and the innocent victim must take a hard look at him/herself and examine what are the options for the future. As an older person I can quote my own experiences over the years but this is not good enough. What I do say to people hit by this recession is ask what are the 87% of people who are working doing that allowed them to avoid the impact of the recession. Within that 87% there are huge amount of careers and people leave jobs, die, retire and emigrate voluntarily. In other words study the working market closely and not allow oneself to concentrate on the other victims of the recession.
In 12 months FF will be forgotten and the blame will switch to the new government. Blaming politicians is a useless exercise for anyone unemployed, if I was unemployed I would be saying to myself " there is someone out there who needs me and I will search for that someone till I drop from from effort"

I have already searched for the someone who needed me and found them. I was settling in, getting used to the company, beginning to feel semi good about myself again, and I was landed with this bombshell today. And the company itself is struggling, it goes far beyond me.

With all due respect, regardless of who you support, there is a responsibility on politicians to behave in a certain manner, to ensure the security of a country's economy. Our politicians did not behave in this manner.And I'm not referring to the EU/IMF, or recent budgets. I'm referring to the 10 years that went before that. The decade where I, as a mere student, could see that things were not right....that we were flinging money around, and we were not spending in the places we needed it.That suddenly, everything was hugely expensive. And those in charge just stood by and ignored it while they were rolling in cash. So yes. I blame the people who had the reins and who held the purse strings.They could have moderated the level of the boom - it wouldn't have been popular, but it would have been better for us all in the long term. They didn't even try.Not once.

I don't want another boom. I don't want construction to be revived. I don't want to go back to the days of the Celtic Tiger where people were going mad, as I watched in amazement. All I want right now is a job.Any job. Anything. Unless you've been here, you have absolutely no idea how it feels.I'm not feeling sorry for myself, or feeling like a victim.I am feeling absolutely devastated that I, once again, through no fault of my own, am facing into an indefinite period of waiting, hoping against hope, and most of all, feeling completely helpless and just trying to make it through every day, trying to motivate myself that maybe tomorrow will be better, maybe tomorrow something will come along, maybe tomorrow will be the day that things improve for me in my world, even just a bit.And as it stands right now, there is not one politician out there that can or will do anything to improve this situation for me, or for the other 450,000 in my position.

scr123

dan_d wrote: »

I have already searched for the someone who needed me and found them. I was settling in, getting used to the company, beginning to feel semi good about myself again, and I was landed with this bombshell today. And the company itself is struggling, it goes far beyond me.

With all due respect, regardless of who you support, there is a responsibility on politicians to behave in a certain manner, to ensure the security of a country's economy. Our politicians did not behave in this manner.And I'm not referring to the EU/IMF, or recent budgets. I'm referring to the 10 years that went before that. The decade where I, as a mere student, could see that things were not right....that we were flinging money around, and we were not spending in the places we needed it.That suddenly, everything was hugely expensive. And those in charge just stood by and ignored it while they were rolling in cash. So yes. I blame the people who had the reins and who held the purse strings.They could have moderated the level of the boom - it wouldn't have been popular, but it would have been better for us all in the long term. They didn't even try.Not once.

I don't want another boom. I don't want construction to be revived. I don't want to go back to the days of the Celtic Tiger where people were going mad, as I watched in amazement. All I want right now is a job.Any job. Anything. Unless you've been here, you have absolutely no idea how it feels.I'm not feeling sorry for myself, or feeling like a victim.I am feeling absolutely devastated that I, once again, through no fault of my own, am facing into an indefinite period of waiting, hoping against hope, and most of all, feeling completely helpless and just trying to make it through every day, trying to motivate myself that maybe tomorrow will be better, maybe tomorrow something will come along, maybe tomorrow will be the day that things improve for me in my world, even just a bit.And as it stands right now, there is not one politician out there that can or will do anything to improve this situation for me, or for the other 450,000 in my position.

Excellent honest and thoughtful reply and all I can say is that someone with your attitude will eventually find satisfactory employment.

BY PERSEVERING THE SNAIL REACHED THE ARK

Have used that as a mantra all my life and corny as it may seem it worked

Monty Burnz

Tragedy wrote: »

I see, another denial of Ray McSharry's existence. The best I'll get from you(MAYBE) is a claim that the good done by him is purely down to the Tallaght Strategy and really wasn't down to McSharry.

Have a look atwhat happened after the budget of 1987: http://www.irishtimes.com/focus/2010/bailoutgraphic/index.pdf

Do you realise how damning it is that you have to go back 25 years to find a competent FFailure minister??

Monty Burnz

scr123 wrote: »

Why do the ABFF fail to highlight the main FF failures

1 Doubling the workforce

2 Allowing full employment to happen

3 Allowing emigration to stop

4 Allowing unemployment to drop below 12%

Wow, did FFailure really employ a million people? Oh no, wait, that was actual businesses that hired people. Not Bertie after all.

And as for the other stuff that happened during the bubble that is crucifying us now? Well if you give me a few hundred billion in credit, I'll give you full employment and people flocking to move to the country too...for a few years. And then we'll be screwed.

Again, it's amusing that the great successes you cite are just symptoms of the bubble that has ruined us.

scr123

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Wow, did FFailure really employ a million people? Oh no, wait, that was actual businesses that hired people. Not Bertie after all.

And as for the other stuff that happened during the bubble that is crucifying us now? Well if you give me a few hundred billion in credit, I'll give you full employment and people flocking to move to the country too...for a few years. And then we'll be screwed.

Again, it's amusing that the great successes you cite are just symptoms of the bubble that has ruined us.

Okay, FF are condemned for allowing the things I mentioned to happen. Come 25th of this month the ABFF will take over the country. Lets see if the ABFF will create full employment, continuous growth, favourable balance of payments and stable prices. Lets see if they will cancel the present recession and make sure recession never happens again in this country. The ABFF have hatred for FF and its so-called failures. I await the next few years with deep anticipation.
Oh, gis a hint on how the ABFF are going to perform their promised miracles

T runner

Laminations wrote: »

1997: Oh whats this, a nice well educated low cost export driven competitive economy you are handing us, thanks.

Huge implication that the economy was created by the rainbow coalition. The rainbow coalition implemented much the same policies as FF-Lab just before. Many would argue that the fundamental changes were made by the FF government that was sopprted by Dukes in opposition.

T runner

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Wow, did FFailure really employ a million people? Oh no, wait, that was actual businesses that hired people. Not Bertie after all.

Are you suggesting we should ahve 1 million people in teh public sector now?

T runner

Laminations wrote: »

1999: being a part of the good Friday agreement and bringing peace to NI, very much building on the work of others

What others? John Bruton? Why dont you chronical how well the Peace Process flourished under FG stewardship?

scr123

T runner wrote: »

What others? John Bruton? Why dont you chronical how well the Peace Process flourished under FG stewardship?

FF had in negotiations managed to get IRA/SF on board a ceasefire in 1994. Government was handed over to FG in 1994 without an election in the belief that FG brit leanings might help to get Loyalists aboard the ceasefire. IRA/SF impatience with FG failure exploded in 1996, was it the Canary Wharf ?
FG/Lab claim 1994/1997 was a wonderful period of success due to their genius but the people rejected them. To date they have not explained this failure nor have they explained why the people rejected them 6 elections in a row

danbohan

T runner wrote: »

Are you suggesting we should ahve 1 million people in teh public sector now?

why not , we are already paying enough in salary's in that sector to employ 1 million !

T runner

dan_d wrote: »

The decade where I, as a mere student, could see that things were not right....that we were flinging money around, and we were not spending in the places we needed it.That suddenly, everything was hugely expensive. And those in charge just stood by and ignored it while they were rolling in cash. So yes. I blame the people who had the reins and who held the purse strings

I do believe the government fared very badly particularly in not understanding what the catastrophic affects of inflation in a single currency could be.

Also as an open economy we should keep abreast of international trends, particularly property related trends in the US.

But remember, we spent twice as much as the second biggest spender at Xmas in the EU. We bought these expensive cars etc.

The banks told us we could afford the stuff but it is our responsibility.
Also we didnt shop around. All these factors inflated the country further making us less competitive and over reliant on tax revenue from the Building sector.

When it was time to burst the bubble in 2007 we demanded less taxes, more handouts as the prerequisites for winning the prize of government. FF were outbid here by FG but surprisingly won the election.

But why wasnt the massive property bubble in the public domain at this point.
Where was the real opposition, the media. The country was slumbering in its wealth.

Yes FF were principally to blame and should be rightly punsihed.

But dont forget all the otehr contributors to this downfall: The opposition promising more handouts than FF, the media and us, the taxpayer.

Sorry to hear about your bad news. Wish you the best of luck on getting back to work as soon as possible.

T runner

danbohan wrote: »

why not , we are already paying enough in salary's in that sector to employ 1 million !

That just sounds like a ridiculous exageration. The public sector has taken a hit in every recent budget, with lots more to come.

We need honest debate at this time. Not useless anger and self righteousness.

squonk

scr123 wrote: »

Okay, FF are condemned for allowing the things I mentioned to happen. Come 25th of this month the ABFF will take over the country. Lets see if the ABFF will create full employment, continuous growth, favourable balance of payments and stable prices. Lets see if they will cancel the present recession and make sure recession never happens again in this country. The ABFF have hatred for FF and its so-called failures. I await the next few years with deep anticipation.
Oh, gis a hint on how the ABFF are going to perform their promised miracles

This completely typifies the level of ignorance and brass neck that FFers have. I'll stand by the party now because once things get back on their feet again I'll be first in with the cap in hand to get an oul' stunt pulled for me that I'll make a few bob out of.

FF as a party have zero respect for the state. They're a bunch of Mé Féiners as has been shown by Haughey, Aherne, Burke, Lawlor to name but a few. Thanks to their attitude, we have nearly 500,000 on the dole, thousands leaving the country and, for those of us left, we're wondering why we're staying here as we're taxed to the hilt now and wondering if we'll be able to pay our mortgages next year.

You can well sneer Scr, thanks to FF's policies there's fairly little any new government can do to come up with anything new to take us out of the mess FF have created.

Frankly that FF sneering attitude is what completely irks me. We've seen plenty of it from Ahern and Cowen in the past while. The part which used to be a decent, progressive party with an interest in furthering the state and it's interests has been reduced to a grubby little back slapping club for cowboys and scam artists. Listening to people going on an offensive to defend this is absolutely disgusting and would lead a person to despair.

Monty Burnz

scr123 wrote: »

Okay, FF are condemned for allowing the things I mentioned to happen. Come 25th of this month the ABFF will take over the country. Lets see if the ABFF will create full employment, continuous growth, favourable balance of payments and stable prices. Lets see if they will cancel the present recession and make sure recession never happens again in this country. The ABFF have hatred for FF and its so-called failures. I await the next few years with deep anticipation.
Oh, gis a hint on how the ABFF are going to perform their promised miracles

They won't be able to fix it. It's beyond fixing. That's how badly FFailure have screwed us. The best we can hope for is that in 5 years time, unemployment will be down to 8% or so, and property prices may have stopped falling by then (although I don't have a problem with them falling).

The problem here is that you are referring back to a fantasy time when the goverment totally lost control of the country, and expecting it to come back. It won't, and it shouldn't. The dream of life under a FFailure credit bubble has burst, and even though you can see the carnage all around you, you still long for another hit of the drug. It's frankly bizarre.

dan_d

T runner wrote: »

I do believe the government fared very badly particularly in not understanding what the catastrophic affects of inflation in a single currency could be.

Also as an open economy we should keep abreast of international trends, particularly property related trends in the US.

But remember, we spent twice as much as the second biggest spender at Xmas in the EU. We bought these expensive cars etc.

The banks told us we could afford the stuff but it is our responsibility.
Also we didnt shop around. All these factors inflated the country further making us less competitive and over reliant on tax revenue from the Building sector.

When it was time to burst the bubble in 2007 we demanded less taxes, more handouts as the prerequisites for winning the prize of government. FF were outbid here by FG but surprisingly won the election.

But why wasnt the massive property bubble in the public domain at this point.
Where was the real opposition, the media. The country was slumbering in its wealth.

Yes FF were principally to blame and should be rightly punsihed.

But dont forget all the otehr contributors to this downfall: The opposition promising more handouts than FF, the media and us, the taxpayer.

Sorry to hear about your bad news. Wish you the best of luck on getting back to work as soon as possible.

Thanks.
I was actually referring to all politicians in general, not just FF. In my eyes, they are all equally responsible.As are the media, who played a massive part in all of this.As for the taxpayers, I don't wholly agree on that, but that's an argument for another day.

scr123

The ABFF are screaming to get FF out so they can run the country and yet are already making excuses for their failure. Its a simple fact of life the ABFF will blame FF for everything but NOT ONCE have I come across anyone from the ABFF to offer something better. God help Ireland in the years ahead !

Liam Byrne

scr123 wrote: »

The ABFF are screaming to get FF out so they can run the country and yet are already making excuses for their failure. Its a simple fact of life the ABFF will blame FF for everything but NOT ONCE have I come across anyone from the ABFF to offer something better. God help Ireland in the years ahead !

"God help Ireland in the years ahead", alright, but WHY ?

BECAUSE we have absolutely no cash and are weighed down by the liabilities of corrupt banks.

So anyone coming in does not have any real opportunity to fix things.

Hopefully they might stabilise things and restore some credibility, something that has been sadly lacking; they also might be interested in at least trying to fix things, instead of looking after their mates.

If not, then we've lost nothing extra by trying.

But re-installing the crowd that caused the mess is a recipe for even worse disaster, as it will give FF the impression that no, we don't care how much damage they do or how much they rip us off.

hobochris

A picture Says a thousand words:



Take the Graph of house prices over the last few years up to 2007 and replace the term prices with Scandal, Shenanigans,incompetence ,dodgy and corrupt dealings and you get a clear representation.