Doberman ear cropping

Gerry Asstrix

Hi, Ive just purchased a Doberman pup, nice and healthy, very energetic and affectionate.
Fitting in right at home with family.

The pup is now 12 weeks, and its tail and ears are uncropped.

I understand its banned

Im not concerned about the tail, I dont approve of tail cropping, but I hear that its beneficial for Dobermans as adults to have cropped ears, as it improves hearing and stops accidents with their ears.
As Ill be using the dog to guard the home at night aswell.

Is the dog too old now to have the ears cropped?

Dobermans look impressive when their ears stand up, but is it the case that if the dobes ears must be cropped to have this appearance,
Id like my dog to have this look, but dont want hurt him either, if it is to cause agony to the dog Im not up for that

Thanks

daenerysstormborn3

Cropping ears and docking tails should be done as early in life as possible where it is legal. It is illegal to crop ears in Ireland so your post kind of has no answer because you can't legally have it done here.

Also, very often the ear cropping procedure goes very wrong and the dog ends up looking nothing like the breed standard. In a country where ear cropping is illegal it is more likely that you will have a person carrying out the procedure incorrectly.

If there is no genuine medical reason for putting your dog through surgery of any sort then why would you choose to do it?

I own a great dane so I know about ear cropping being a prominent part of the breed and other breeds in some countries but I don't see the appeal or the necessity. My great dane has huge ears, bigger than the average and he has not had any "accidents" due to the size of his ears.

andreac

Its not beneficial in any way at all. Accidents with their ears, seriously? what kind of accidents would those be??

Its not allowed in Ireland and anyway, if its is to be done, its meant to be done when they are very young. Tails are docked before 3 days old so yes, your dog is far too old to have its ears cropped:mad:

The only way to have your dogs ears to stand up is to have them cropped so you wont be getting it done and yes, it does cause the dog pain, a lot of pain!
Your dog doesnt need its ears to be cropped to guard your home, seriously, i really wonder about some people...


Btw its DOBERMANN with 2 n's.

ISDW

Gerry Asstrix wrote: »

Hi, Ive just purchased a Doberman pup, nice and healthy, very energetic and affectionate.
Fitting in right at home with family.

The pup is now 12 weeks, and its tail and ears are uncropped.

I understand its banned

Im not concerned about the tail, I dont approve of tail cropping, but I hear that its beneficial for Dobermans as adults to have cropped ears, as it improves hearing and stops accidents with their ears.
As Ill be using the dog to guard the home at night aswell.

Is the dog too old now to have the ears cropped?

Dobermans look impressive when their ears stand up, but is it the case that if the dobes ears must be cropped to have this appearance,
Id like my dog to have this look, but dont want hurt him either, if it is to cause agony to the dog Im not up for that

Thanks

If you know that its illegal, why are you asking people if the dog is too old now to have it done?

Just as a matter of interest, what sort of accidents have you heard that it stops?

Personally, I think that Dobermans look impressive with their ears the way they are when they are born, thats how they are supposed to look. If you wanted a dog with ears that stand up, why did you not go for a breed with ears like that?

ppink

I know little about the doberman and will not go into my thought on cropping but a simple google search of 3 different sites advocating it says it has to be done at 7-8 weeks of age and definately not after as the ear cartiledge has formed into a flat shape. These sites also say that the person doing the job needs to be an expert at it and these are apparently hard to find as many countries have outlawed it and veterinary schools dont teach it.

Gerry Asstrix

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Cropping ears and docking tails should be done as early in life as possible where it is legal. It is illegal to crop ears in Ireland so your post kind of has no answer because you can't legally have it done here.

Also, very often the ear cropping procedure goes very wrong and the dog ends up looking nothing like the breed standard. In a country where ear cropping is illegal it is more likely that you will have a person carrying out the procedure incorrectly.

If there is no genuine medical reason for putting your dog through surgery of any sort then why would you choose to do it?

I own a great dane so I know about ear cropping being a prominent part of the breed and other breeds in some countries but I don't see the appeal or the necessity. My great dane has huge ears, bigger than the average and he has not had any "accidents" due to the size of his ears.

Im told that the cropping of Dobermans ears improves hearing when the dog reaches adulthood.

Hellrazer

While this thread has been reported Im leaving it here for the minute.

The cropping of a dogs ears is illegal in Ireland--the discussion of it is not.


However if anyone mentions places / people to do it then a permanent ban from the forum will be issued.

andreac

Gerry Asstrix wrote: »

Im told that the cropping of Dobermans ears improves hearing when the dog reaches adulthood.

Seriously, who is telling you this crap? It does no such thing. :mad:

ppink

I really wonder is you can differentiate as simply as that with hearing. we have a very small mixed breed runt of a litter with fold over ears and she hears equal to both our GSD's with their stand up ears.....if not better sometimes;)

As regards your OP:

"Dobermans look impressive when their ears stand up, but is it the case that if the dobes ears must be cropped to have this appearance"

the doberman is already an impressive animal, they dont need their ears to be standing up like tulips to make them more so......I mean would you even notice a dobermans ears if he was coming to greet you? hardly!

Gerry Asstrix

Hellrazer wrote: »

While this thread has been reported Im leaving it here for the minute.

The cropping of a dogs ears is illegal in Ireland--the discussion of it is not.


However if anyone mentions places / people to do it then a permanent ban from the forum will be issued.

Thanks, I knew this thread would cause havoc among the animal nazis, but I am only asking a question

Im not thinking of doing it, Im just curious to hear peoples opinion on it

daenerysstormborn3

I also wonder if you have discussed your concerns with the dogs breeder and if the breeder advocates such a procedure being carried out?

Having looked at a few different sites online I can't find any proper evidence that deafness is a problem in properly bred dobermans (as would be the case with most dogs from healthy lines) nor is congenital deafness prevalent within the breed.

If you had concerns about deafness in the breed before you got the dog this should have been discussed with the breeder and if you have concerns now you should return to your breeder for an in depth discussion on the matter.

TooManyDogs

OP I think someone has been filling you full of rubbish. Cropping ears doesn't improve hearing nor does it prevent accidents. No more than tail docking prevents tail accidents, it's only an excuse for people to cut off various parts of their dog and to stop people wondering why they thought it was a good idea to hack off ears/tail.

andreac

Gerry Asstrix wrote: »

Thanks, I knew this thread would cause havoc among the animal nazis, but I am only asking a question

Im not thinking of doing it, Im just curious to hear peoples opinion on it

Sorry, but you are thinking of doing it. You said you would like your dog to have that look and if its too old to have it done.

Animal nazi's?? Someone to has to stand up for the poor dogs or there will be people out there cropping ears left right and centre because they have been told ridiculous reasons for it like you were.

ISDW

Gerry Asstrix wrote: »

Thanks, I knew this thread would cause havoc among the animal nazis, but I am only asking a question

Im not thinking of doing it, Im just curious to hear peoples opinion on it

What on earth does that mean?

You said you knew it was illegal, but wondered if it was too old for the dog to be done now.

beanie2010

Gerry Asstrix wrote: »

Im told that the cropping of Dobermans ears improves hearing when the dog reaches adulthood.

If that was true wouldn't all dogs need to get their ears cropped to 'improve' hearing? It's a myth I'm afraid & it makes no sense whatsoever.

The reason people crop a Dobbies ears is to make them appear vicious. It has nothing to do with 'improving' the dogs hearing. And seeing as you want to use the dog as a guard dog you were probably told, or came to the assumption yourself, that cropping the ears would enhance the appearence of your guard dog. You don't need to do this because Dobbies look naturally impressive without being chopped up.

And anyway I think Dobbies look better with uncropped ears.

Chris_Heilong

Growing up I always saw Dobermann with little stand up ears and Rothwillers with no tails and in my ignorance tought that is how they were born:( Although I like the look of Dobermann with cropped ears I know its cruel and would not put a dog trough that, If you like that kind of look maybe you would be better off with a Pharaoh Hound.

But its good you came here looking for advice because maybe you didnt know it was cruel (some people dont, same as people that say fish cant feel pain or Horses the whip and I am not going to argue if you happen to be one of these) and hopefully you ave changed your mind.

HelenT

I have had the pleasure of owning a Dobbie in the past. Beautiful, beautiful dog with such a loyal (but quite headstrong!) nature.

We never cropped / docked and Benson never had accidents with his ears or any problem with hearing. He did however have itch problems that were easily sorted with drops from the vet.

Go along to a dog show / get talking to people who are passionate about the breed and you will hopefully get reliable information that way!

Now can we PLEASE see a picture of your gorgeous 12 week old Dobbie pup!!

caseyann

I would imagine better without ears cropped so they dont get ticks or mites in them or ear infections from cold weather.
And one of the most loyal affectionate protective dogs ever,and agile amazing abilities.

caseyann

P.S OP trust me when i say.When a Doberman shows his teeth and stance he looks damn impressive.So dont buy into the cropping of anything.

luvdogs

i asked someone once,who shows danes in a country where they crop the ears, how the hell do they manage to get the pup to leave the strapping on after the operation...i was told its SO painful the pups are careful not to go near them....how sad is that

suziwalsh

Caseyann is dead right if a dogs ears are cropped they tend to be prone to infections and other nasty ailments. The long ears are designed to protect the ear and actually can improve hearing as many ears are cropped to short and the sound no longer has a barried in which to travel. Dogs that have stand up ears like GSDs etc have a different ears then cropped ears which tend to be shortened.

Also not all ears that are cropped result in standing up many just end up bent at the tips also it takes a long time in plaster, bandages etc which in my opinion add nothing to hearing improvement.

If something in animals is illegal in Ireland it is usually for a very good reason....as we have so little legislation to protect animals as it is.

HelenT

Off topic a little. Sorry!

My tummy just did a little flip looking at those pics! Gorgeous! I had my guy for 10 years - amazing dog! Wishing you years of Dobermann bliss.

"And one of the most loyal affectionate protective dogs ever,and agile amazing abilities."

Absolutely. My guy was also very aloof when it came to visitors and feline members of the family. Except for one cat that really mesmerised him for some reason. The cat would come in evening times and sit on top of the back of a chair in the living room and start to swish his tail. Every evening this happened Benson would try and ignore but eventually give in and go over and get claws embedded in his nose!!

Other than that he was very intelligent (I swear!).

daenerysstormborn3

Luvdogs. I own a great dane myself so would have a look on american great dane forums the odd time out of curiosity and ear cropping is a huge part of these forums.

Yes, with danes they are in so much pain that they dare not interfere with the things holding up their ears. I'm not 100% sure of the procedure but I think you have to remove the cone things numerous times during the course of "setting" them but there is now a new metal cone that can be used which is ten times more painful but gets rid of the need to remove the cone things. You can imagine how painful to metal implements would be on a dogs delicate ears and on a pup's little head.

Imagine taking away from a pup some of their essential puppy time in place of a painful procedure that lasts weeks and there are no guaranteed results? Very sad.

Gerry Asstrix

Im sorry folks I didnt mean to offend anyone,

I love animals, and would never hurt one intentionally.

I have cared for all sorts of dogs before, and Ill be honest, the so called 'dangerous dog' kind are my favourite

Im not a hardman, I just like the challenge of caring for a dog that looks like it means business Lol and has a reputation

I always been amazed by Dobeys, but anytime seen them they always had pointy ears and through my ignorance never knew they had ears cropped looked that way,
Dont get me wrong I think the cropped ear Dobey looks the business but Id never put my dog through pain because I think it would look meaner.

My kids love him and are playing with him all day, but I hope when he gets older he can moonlight as the house bouncer and keep watch for any bad guys

luvdogs

Barbaric :eek:
takes months as well, not weeks!!! in the show ring, a handler can hold up the dogs ears for the same effect and some natural eared danes are shown this way in the usa too, best of both worlds!

Gerry Asstrix

luvdogs wrote: »

Barbaric :eek:
takes months as well, not weeks!!! in the show ring, a handler can hold up the dogs ears for the same effect and some natural eared danes are shown this way in the usa too, best of both worlds!

Cant the dog hold up its ears this way itself or is that only after cropping

daenerysstormborn3

That is the only way of cropping ears. The cones stay on for 21 days and after 7 days the vet will remove sutures. Timing is everything with this procedure, even a few days off can result in permanent scarring or a "lazy" ear. It is a very bloody procedure. The ears are very vascular and it can be messy for days after the initial procedure has been carried out.

Cropping a dogs ears in this manner is the only way it is possible for a "floppy eared dog" to have pointy ears.

Gerry Asstrix

pixiebean22 wrote: »

That is the only way of cropping ears. The cones stay on for 21 days and after 7 days the vet will remove sutures. Timing is everything with this procedure, even a few days off can result in permanent scarring or a "lazy" ear. It is a very bloody procedure. The ears are very vascular and it can be messy for days after the initial procedure has been carried out.

Cropping a dogs ears in this manner is the only way it is possible for a "floppy eared dog" to have pointy ears.

F*ck that, thats a disgrace,

I didnt know how barbaric whole thing is,

Leason learned

daenerysstormborn3

Yeah, well, that's why it is banned.

luvdogs

Gerry Asstrix wrote: »

Cant the dog hold up its ears this way itself or is that only after cropping

the only dogs that can hold their ears up themselves, are dog breeds like...gsd`s huskies etc. or any breed with this type of ear!!!

ABajaninCork

Very happy to hear that....

For the record, I've had Dobies in the past, as have my family. All had beautiful floppy ears. Unfortunately, the tails WERE docked, but in those days tail docking in the UK was legal. Ear cropping has always been illegal in the UK, and now tail docking is too. I am not sure about the law here.

Believe me, my dogs looked the business, even though they were so soft - Scratch their ears and they'd tell you where the money was!:D

But they were very protective when they needed to be. I'd have another tomorrow if I had the room. Hope you have many happy years with your dog. Floppy ears, little curly tail, the lot!

Ricardo G

I see American blue/rednose pitbulls with cropped ears also, are these not natural?? i was always under the impression that they were.
The whole procedure sounds disgusting to be honest and anyone that even contimplates doing this to a puppy should really have their heads examined:(

luvdogs

no, these are not natural....and in breeds like this they are cropped very short :mad:

The Sweeper

Fighting dogs often have cropped ears to prevent injury or advantage in the ring from another dog grabbing their ear. Seriously though, folks who fight dogs don't really have the dog's best interests at heart.

You can tell the difference between a cropped ear and a natural - the cropped always look misshapen or disproportionate to the dog's head. Any time you can't tell, picture a German Shepherd or Husky with those large, forward facing triangular ears - those are ears with naturally stiff cartilege that stand up. The cropped ears look nothing like that.

Tranceypoo

Gerry Asstrix wrote: »

the animal nazis

Nice

Zapperzy

Ricardo G wrote: »

I see American blue/rednose pitbulls with cropped ears also, are these not natural?? i was always under the impression that they were.
The whole procedure sounds disgusting to be honest and anyone that even contimplates doing this to a puppy should really have their heads examined:(

In Ireland? I would be highly suspicious of them and why they have the ears cropped and of course who done it! I have heard of dog fighters in america just cutting them off with a knife or scissors. Any vet found doing it here I would imagine would be in serious trouble.

Buckaru

I Completely agree you should love you dog for its nature not its appearance. I agree with this procedure being illegal and it should be made this way all over the world as it is completely unnecessary.

Wisco

I have seen ear cropping done in the US and I can assure you it's a horrible, unneccessary and very bloody procedure. The US vet that I saw do it only knew how because he had worked for an older vet who knew how to do it- fortunately even the Americans don't teach it in vet school any more.
I wholeheartedly agree with it being illegal in Ireland and any site you find on Google that says it 'improves hearing' or 'prevents injury' is just an idiots excuse for promoting this barbaric surgery.
And yes, any vet in Ireland who is found to do this, or tail docking, risks losing his or her veterinary license, which is exactly as it should be.

seamus

Ricardo G wrote: »

I see American blue/rednose pitbulls with cropped ears also, are these not natural??

No, very few breeds have naturally pointy ears. Most bull breeds have ears similar to this. Generally quite short ears which don't entirely flop over. The "root" of the ear flap (known as the "pinna" FWIW) can be naturally quite thick and calcified like a cauliflower ear so it stands up, but the top half is floppy and hangs over like most other dogs' ears.

Buckaru

"The pups only few days old,so you can have look them,and you leave a deposit if you like one.

Their tails are already cut."

I saw this on done deal.ie and this is someone selling these puppies so even though its illegal people are still getting it done its terrible.:mad:

Wisco

Buckaru wrote: »

I saw this on done deal.ie and this is someone selling these puppies so even though its illegal people are still getting it done its terrible.:mad:

Good reason not to buy from that breeder. And since vets are not allowed to do it, you can bet it was a DIY job, which means extra pain (no painkillers or antibiotics) for the poor little things.
I'd be inclined to report the ad.

Buckaru

Wisco wrote: »

I'd be inclined to report the ad.

I agree completely and its a recent enough add for pups, they are rottweilers now but it the same cruel treatment. They are beautiful pups as well and my heart goes out to them with the pain they probably went through.Heres a pic of the beautys i copied from the add.

Ailishcrehan

Wisco wrote: »

And yes, any vet in Ireland who is found to do this, or tail docking, risks losing his or her veterinary license, which is exactly as it should be.

I volunteer with an animal rescue group and emailed the Veterinary Council of Ireland who advised us that tail docking and ear cropping is not illegal in Ireland but if a vet carries out this procedure, they can be brought in front of the ethics committee. Docking/Cropping for aesthetic purposes is not illegal BUT is not generally carried out by any reputable vet. No doubt, the dogs advertised with tails docked have been done by someone who still thinks it is an acceptable practice or a vet who still carries out this barbaric procedure.

Not too long ago, we took in 6 orphaned boxer pups for hand rearing, who had their tails docked at 3 days old. Their stumps got so badly infected as a result of the procedure (and I use that term loosely) and no doubt, if they survived to adulthood (owner took them back when we asked too many questions) they will most likely have problems as bone was exposed once the tails were butchered.

I have reported numerous ads on different websites selling dogs with tails docked and have been told that as it is not illegal in Ireland, the ads shall remain up sadly, and there is little documentation to prove that it is completely unethical either to use a reference to guide these websites in the right direction.

There is nothing nicer than seeing lovely Jack Russells, Rotties, Dobes and other breeds that traditionally have had tails docked for their appearance and 'breed standard' with lovely wagging tails.

Whispered

I thought ear cropping was illegal and tail docking is just frowned upon?

Wisco

Ailishcrehan wrote: »

they can be brought in front of the ethics committee.

I would imagine the ethics committee can get the VCI to not renew the vet's licence if the vet in question has repeatedly committed offenses/acts of cruelty.
Veterinary Ireland tells it's members not to do either of these things.

Ailishcrehan

From what information I can find, it is 'unrestricted' in ROI. The VCI statement says that it is unethical, but it is not illegal as of yet. Just shows how backwards Ireland is in comparison with most other countries. There is a link below to the statement by the VCI
http://www.veterinaryireland.ie/Links/PDFs/Mutilations%20-%20Policy%20-%20Revised%2028.5.09.pdf

Ailishcrehan

either way, it is a disgrace that is is NOT illegal as of yet; until it is written in legislation, websites will allow dogs to be sold online with tails docked and ears cropped and there is very little control over prosecuting people for docking and cropping if it is not illegal.

fatmammycat

I think it's really awful seeing photos of those mutilated pups. I wouldn't buy a dobermann docked or cropped.

Cherry Blossom

As someone who has been considering getting a dobe for about 20 years now OP can you answer me one question, why on earth did you get one if the look of the pup offends you so much? The only reason I know of that these dogs are cropped is to make them look more menacing as they tend to be bought as status symbols of 'hard manship' :rolleyes: and guard dogs which incidently is a job they are completely unsuitable for. If I ever end up purchasing one from a breeder I will not get one from some one who docks and/or crops or ever has done, to any dog. Why on earth would anyone want to do this to a dog is completely beyond me

You are completely against docking, but see no reason not to chop off part of the dogs ear, what kind of logic is that?

I hope you realise that this is a procedure that requires the dog to be anaesthetised and that dobes are predisposed to certain genetic conditions that do not go well with anethetic bearing in mind that the only person you are going to get to do this will be completely untrained.

lrushe

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

I hope you realise that this is a procedure that requires the dog to be anaesthetised and that dobes are predisposed to certain genetic conditions that do not go well with anethetic bearing in mind that the only person you are going to get to do this will be completely untrained.

They can also have problems with blood clotting so even the smallest cut can bleed for a long time similar to hemophillia in people.

cjf

Docking and cropping not illegal but kennel club won't accept docked and cropped dogs in the ring anymore not sure on the date they brought that in but dogs born after that date have to have full ears and tails so a y reputable breeder who is breeding for show won't dock or crop- it's a barbaric and inhumane procedure that no pup should ever have to endure cropping as for "the look" of it don't think a dobie with natural ears is any less impressive than one wit cropped ears and don't think an intruder is really looking at a dobies ears or any dogs ears if they climb over your fence!! Good luck wit your pup OP and remember it's in their instinct to guard and protect their family so this doesn't need to be encouraged, socialisation with people and other dogs is so important in raising a happy and well balanced dobie!!