Counterpicking and other IoL discussion stuff.

UberPrinny_Baal

Doctor DooM wrote: »

It'd be impossible I think.

Like, someone who's decent with Guile could auto eliminate my chances by forcing me to pick someone else.

And even in that case, who's claim to the character gets priority?

I don't think a tournament like this could be run in a serious way at all, so everyone would have to go at it with "Just a bit of fun" attitude. FT3 at most, probably no recording, definitely no commentary.

In that regard, it would be pointless to let the top seeded players pick first, since you're only handicapping the weak, and after the group stages are over it would be more or less a regular tournament.

If you did it "Worse player picks first" it could be pretty funny to have a tournament where all the best players are left with the worst characters, and one of them ends up winning anyway (although I'm sure Dreddy or Hound could do that pretty easily).

prenelf

If I don't get Ryu im picking dan.

We could have qualifier matches for each character, but that would take ages...

ayjayirl

Doctor DooM wrote: »

It'd be impossible I think.

Like, someone who's decent with Guile could auto eliminate my chances by forcing me to pick someone else.

And even in that case, who's claim to the character gets priority?

Mine..... always!

ayjayirl

prenelf wrote: »

If I don't get Ryu im picking dan.

We could have qualifier matches for each character, but that would take ages...

Just to be clear - whilst these ideas floating around are ok, they are not the case for this tournament.

This one will be character locked but no rules on who you select, although I would consider banning guile from the tournament. If I can get a second to that motion, I will consider it .

UberPrinny_Baal

Not wanting to derail Ayjay's thread for anyone jumping in towards the end, "Strictly one character per tournament" talk is just a "What if" discussion for the fun of it.

The actual tournament has no such crazy restriction.

Edit: Haha, posted at the same exact minute

Burning Eclipse

ayjayirl wrote: »

Just to be clear - whilst these ideas floating around are ok, they are not the case for this tournament.

This one will be character locked but no rules on who you select, although I would consider banning guile from the tournament. If I can get a second to that motion, I will consider it .

What have I started....

Also /seconded.

Placebo

bagsy chunli

UberPrinny_Baal

Burning Eclipse wrote: »

What have I started....

Just to get them out of the way, also worth considering:

• Random Select Tournament
• All Dan Tournament
• One Button Only Tournament (change characters as much as you like, but your button is locked)

A-Trak

UberPrinny_Baal wrote: »

Just to get them out of the way, also worth considering:

• Random Select Tournament
• All Dan Tournament
• One Button Only Tournament (change characters as much as you like, but your button is locked)

We've had similar endless lobbies, and to be honest they get really boring really fast.

Doctor DooM

gonna split this off when I get home.

You guys have no idea how annoying it is trying to gather a list of names from a thread with chat in it

ayjayirl

Placebo wrote: »

bagsy chunli

Yoink!

ayjayirl

From now on all entrants will be tournamising in this tournament.





What a word!

UberPrinny_Baal

Doctor DooM wrote: »

You guys have no idea how annoying it is trying to gather a list of names from a thread with chat in it

Sorry about the tangent!

Seems like adding a Yes/No poll is a good way to grab a list of names, from the Inferno thread "Yes" results for example:

ayjayirl, BourketheJerk, chopperbyrne, DarkTalant, Doctor DooM, Doyler01, Dreddybajs, Fergus_, FoamyMushroom, K.O.Kiki, Mickles_86, pdbhp, Placebo, prenelf, Ry, Sairus, Speed Boat.

Robbknoll

Character lock = :cool:

Every tourney should be character locked imo. Counter picking in my eyes is low and a form of cheating.

But hey no-one does that here anyway right...RIGHT?


Whoa i gotta catch up to the conversation sorry...

Dreddybajs

Robbknoll wrote: »

Character lock = :cool:

Every tourney should be character locked imo. Counter picking in my eyes is low and a form of cheating.

But hey no-one does that here anyway right...RIGHT?

i'll happily counterpick all day, how is selecting a different character cheating? :pac:

Robbknoll

Dreddybajs wrote: »

i'll happily counterpick all day, how is selecting a different character cheating? :pac:

Because your selection of that character is based on your opponents character's weakness and not on ones preferred character or belief in ones skill (and counter picking happens most often when a person is initially beaten). May not be specifically cheating but anyone that has a sense of sportsmanship would find the action...distasteful :pac:

I play bison, used to play blanka, my best mate plays gief, since bison is my guy ill pick him against gief regardless, as if i picked blanka and won it'd feel like a hollow victory.

Bring on character lock evo japan!!!

Dreddybajs

How does being confident enough to play different characters at tournament level show that you don't have belief in your own skill?

Robbknoll

If you had confidence in your skill with your main character you wouldnt feel the need to pick another just bcos you lost the first match.

Red350

So if your opponent happens to be using a character that gives you a bad matchup, you should just grin and bear it?

If you're capable of picking up multiple characters to cover your bad matchups, then you deserve any win you get through counter picking.

ayjayirl

Robbknoll wrote: »

Because your selection of that character is based on your opponents character's weakness and not on ones preferred character or belief in ones skill (and counter picking happens most often when a person is initially beaten). May not be specifically cheating but anyone that has a sense of sportsmanship would find the action...distasteful :pac:

I play bison, used to play blanka, my best mate plays gief, since bison is my guy ill pick him against gief regardless, as if i picked blanka and won it'd feel like a hollow victory.

Bring on character lock evo japan!!!

scrub talk! Pick who you like its player v player. Not character v character

EmSixTeen

Placebo wrote: »

bagsy chunli

I'd bag her.

DEM THIGHS.

Robbknoll

Hit the nail on head there its player vs player. Go level up ye're bad match ups and ye wouldnt have to resort to scrub tactics


Why is this online tourney character lock anyway if people seem to like the idea of counter picking?

Fergus_

Yeah screw bad matchups, all about the player.

GorySnake

Counter picking is for winners

UberPrinny_Baal

Only scrubs play to win!

...wait

Speed Boat

Counter picking is fine. The game has too many characters.

bush

Real men counter pick

Azza

I don't have a problem with counterpicking. But I don't at this time feel the need to do it.

If someones main happens to have whats considered a good match up against my main so be it, not my opponents fault that the match up is like that he didn't design the game.

As for switching to a secondary deliberately to counter x charcter you still have to put the time in to learn the secondary, if your opponent is half way decent with the character you want to counterpick. Chances are he will be familar with his bad match ups.

HandiCapanda

I'd be with dreddy on this.

If it takes THAT long to get good with your main how much input is required to be competent with more than 1 character.

Then again i'm a player without a true main. I haven't counterpicked but if i felt my choice of character could compete with another player's main, I wouldn't feel bad choosing them. It's up to them to put in the necessary work to either get good at their bad matches or have a substitute ready.

K.O.Kiki

I'll choose a different character if I'm not feeling confident about a particular matchup.

At the same time, I also understand that it sets me up to be counter-picked at a later stage.

Robbknoll

bush wrote: »

Real men counter pick

Theres no such thing as real men these days. All with their hair and womens soccer

Doctor DooM

To be fair, while I have no problem with counter picking, I can see what the lads were saying- 9 times out of ten when I am counter picked against, it proves to be a bad choice for the counter picker, and they're doing it because their main can't hack it as opposed to thinking they have me figured out and go for the on paper bad guile matches.

But bad matches in general don't become bad matches until a certain skill level is reached.

That said, I am working on a couple of other characters myself in preparation of AE cos there's no way I am doing the Dhalsim or Akuma fight without my meter but they're not coming out in serious competition until I am comfortable with them.

Ian McTetly

In Super there aren't that many properly bad matchups anyway, most of the time you'll find if you counter pick that your opponent knows the matchup better than you know the character. Besides that's the beauty of a best of 3 set, as Kiki said you leave yourself open to a counter pick by counter picking in the first place.
In a FT10 though it would probably work better with character lock, or perhaps a limited amount of character changes across the whole tournament like they did at Team Nagoya Street Battle x Beat by Contest in Japan recently.