Is broadband really still a problem?

Kunle

The labour party are on about lack of broadband being a problem is it really? I know lots of people in remote villages and none of them are still using dial up. Lets face it you will never get lots of jobs to places like connemara because its just to far away from everywhere.

MagicSean

Yes it is. Eircom have stopped upgrading telephone exchanges because of some disagreement with the Dept of Communications. Many people in rural areas are stuck with using expensive and unreliable satellite broadband or praying for ntl. I still can't believe they sold that infrastructure.

Pete_Cavan

Already a thread about this here, although it does get to be very heavy reading unless you are a broadband expert.

Liam Byrne

I know loads of places that can't get it, and know loads of places -including here - that it can't go beyond 2MB, and that's within sight of a city.

Eircom rang me to know did I want to upgrade to their NGB (read : Smart Telecom's Previous Generation Broadband from 5 years ago) and I was the one who told them yeah, but I bet you can't provide it....they had to ring back and say "whoops, we shouldn't have offered it to you coz you can't get it".

God knows how bad it is elsewhere.

And that's related to CURRENT services, including trying to watch a stuttery game on eircom's Setanta website.

If and when more intensive services go online - including, say, TV over IP - where do you think my pitiful 2MB will stand ?

And where do you think those who aren't 1.5 miles from a city border will be left at that stage ?

Sponge Bob

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I know loads of places that can't get it, and know loads of places -including here - that it can't go beyond 2MB, and that's within sight of a city.

And where do you think those who aren't 1.5 miles from a city border will be left at that stage ?

Funny you mentioned that because Country DSL is nearly 50% faster for a given line length than City DSL is Overground plant uses thicker wire.

FreudianSlippers

Even in Dublin, broadband is shockingly slow and overpriced.

iPlop

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Even in Dublin, broadband is shockingly slow and overpriced.

Even more shockingly over priced here in Wicklow ,no access to UPC or Wimax where I am so I pay 65.15 per month for a broadband only DSL line which is 8meg and I receive 5 meg ,fantastic isn't it.It wouldn't be so bad if I wasn't paying line rental ,which is outdated and a complete rip off.

dubhthach

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Already a thread about this here, although it does get to be very heavy reading unless you are a broadband expert.

Sorry about that, perhaps some road analogies will help:

Dedicated Fibre (FTTH): 4 lane motorway, with distribution roads between junctions and no speed limits (how fast you want depends on your wallet)

Shared Fibre (*PON -- FTTH): narrow median Motorway, 120kph speed limit -- potentially alot more in future.

FTTC/HFC (UPC is HFC): 2+2 2+1 carriageway, no hardshoulders, LILO's, at grade roundabouts: 100kph

*DSL: National Primary road Primary or Secondary road -- your mileage may vary on quality

Mobile Dongle (Midband): National secondary road R-Road

ISDN: R-Road Local Road

Dial-up: Goat track



--Edit--
Given that I hadn't had enough caffeine when I wrote above I've decided to modify it abit. No doubt Sponge Bob will correct me

iPlop

FTTH ,FTTN ,FTTB ,FTTC



HFC -UPC Broadband



DSL -Eircom



Dial -up

Sponge Bob

Sink The Banana wrote: »

DSL -Eircom

You Mean

KevR

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I know loads of places that can't get it, and know loads of places -including here - that it can't go beyond 2MB, and that's within sight of a city.

Eircom rang me to know did I want to upgrade to their NGB (read : Smart Telecom's Previous Generation Broadband from 5 years ago) and I was the one who told them yeah, but I bet you can't provide it....they had to ring back and say "whoops, we shouldn't have offered it to you coz you can't get it".

God knows how bad it is elsewhere.

And that's related to CURRENT services, including trying to watch a stuttery game on eircom's Setanta website.

If and when more intensive services go online - including, say, TV over IP - where do you think my pitiful 2MB will stand ?

And where do you think those who aren't 1.5 miles from a city border will be left at that stage ?

We had broadband with Smart a couple of years ago. 6MB broadband package, always got around 5MB*. We had TV (over IP) and phone with them too and were happy with them overall.

Unfortunately they had to discontinue their TV service for some reason so we switched everything to UPC. 15MB fibre optic broadband with UPC and for ages we seemed to be getting less than 5MB* whenever we did a speed test. Has improved a bit now though, usually get around the 10MB mark now.

*Getting 5MB from a 6MB package and then getting 5MB from a 15MB package :rolleyes:

lucernarian

KevR wrote: »

We had broadband with Smart a couple of years ago. 6MB broadband package, always got around 5MB*. We had TV (over IP) and phone with them too and were happy with them overall.

Unfortunately they had to discontinue their TV service for some reason so we switched everything to UPC. 15MB fibre optic broadband with UPC and for ages we seemed to be getting less than 5MB* whenever we did a speed test. Has improved a bit now though, usually get around the 10MB mark now.

*Getting 5MB from a 6MB package and then getting 5MB from a 15MB package :rolleyes:

You'd need to check with more than speedtest.net as sometimes that can be very unaccurate. Also some UPC modems need some "flood detection" thingy disabled to get more accurate with speedtest websites. Best thing is to dowload a large file from the likes of Microsoft, intel or ftp.heanet.ie. You'll get a raw download speed in kilobytes that way. KB/s x 8 = kbps.

dubhthach

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

You'd need to check with more than speedtest.net as sometimes that can be very unaccurate. Also some UPC modems need some "flood detection" thingy disabled to get more accurate with speedtest websites. Best thing is to dowload a large file from the likes of Microsoft, intel or ftp.heanet.ie. You'll get a raw download speed in kilobytes that way. KB/s x 8 = kbps.

ftp.heanet.ie is probably the best option. I tend to kick off download of a Linux distro iso. That way I test the speed over a file that's 700MB in size. Given that the server is in Dublin and has multiple 10Gbit/s links your guaranteed to get a better picture of the speed on your home connection.

Dempo1

Kunle wrote: »

The labour party are on about lack of broadband being a problem is it really? I know lots of people in remote villages and none of them are still using dial up. Lets face it you will never get lots of jobs to places like connemara because its just to far away from everywhere.

Absolutely if your dependent on a Toggle, I'm with that dreadful shower 3 who were awarded a contract to extend broadband coverage into rural locations, its hilarious. To be fair, I've used Vodafone (Non existent coverage) O2 (If you stick a ladder outside the top window and climb at least 10 steps into the air), 3 do offer an average service but god forbid if anything goes wrong, they have what could be described as the worst customer service on the planet.

Toggles are fine for basic surfing etc but forget real work or projects.

dubhthach

Ireland has the "highest broadband costs" in EU, Quelle surprise?

http://siliconrepublic.com/comms/item/20492-irish-broadband-costs-are/

iPlop

dubhthach wrote: »

Ireland has the "highest broadband costs" in EU, Quelle surprise?

http://siliconrepublic.com/comms/item/20492-irish-broadband-costs-are/

I had a row with Eircom last week about this ,I pay 65.15 monthly for a DSL broadband only line which is "up to 8meg" ,and is 5 meg.They tried to tell me that they wanted to lower line rental but couldn't because comreg would not let them because it would damage the likes of perlico and smart telecom.

I then asked why isn't UPC being forced to charge what they charge if that's the case and guess what? SILENCE!

Im finding lately that every time I contact eircom the web of lies and excuses is getting bigger and bigger every day.

If only I was in a UPC enabled area!

Tech3

As long as 3G continues to cover most areas in Ireland instead of fibre we will still have a broadband issue. 3G is brutal in comparison to real broadband speeds. I've gone home today from my UPC 20 Meg package in Limerick to the 1Meg (max) connection in kerry with 3 mobile. The difference is unbelievable when your used to a high speed connection even browsing webpages.

mufcboy1999

im sick of eircom, im paying for a 7 meg package and most of the time only getting 1 to 2 and half megs sometimes it comes in less than 1 meg.

anytime i ring them they tell its because the laptop is wireless, are you kidding me so anytime i go wireless il expect those speeds?

having to explain myself constantly because they are not logging my complaints or the good owl wireless excuse is wrecking my head, eircom have to be the worst customer service in ireland your talking to a computer only to get through to some african or packistani chap who can barely speak english.

i do the speedtests wired and its still the same, i use both eircom and speedtest.net iv asked for an engineer to come out and check my line they tell me i dont need one because they claim 7 megs is what im receiving and that its not there fault, well im no genius but it kind of 100 per cent is your fault.

iv only 1 laptop and xbox in the house i mean come on, there trained monkeys is all they are they should get fingers out of arses and make more of an effort.

oh ye and why is it when you want to talk to manager he isnt there? if i ever get hanged up on again im going down to the call center and grabbing my money back awell as findin the person who hung up on me

L1011

If your line is syncing at or near the full 7.6mbit (which they can tell, and you can tell by going to the router's info page) and you're getting 1 to 2 throughput, the problem is entirely on your end - most likely spyware or similar eating up bandwidth, or intruders on your wireless

/Former BT UK Broadband team administrator.

bk

MYOB wrote: »

If your line is syncing at or near the full 7.6mbit (which they can tell, and you can tell by going to the router's info page) and you're getting 1 to 2 throughput, the problem is entirely on your end - most likely spyware or similar eating up bandwidth, or intruders on your wireless

/Former BT UK Broadband team administrator.

Not necessarily, it could also indicate congestion in Eircoms backhaul.

L1011

bk wrote: »

Not necessarily, it could also indicate congestion in Eircoms backhaul.

not to that extent, realistically.

L1011

bk wrote: »

Not necessarily, it could also indicate congestion in Eircoms backhaul.

not to that extent, realistically.

bk

MYOB wrote: »

not to that extent, realistically.

I've seen and dealt with many cases where it was the case. Many places around the country still only have very limited backhaul from the local exchange.

Of course the op should try and confirm it isn't an issue with his pc.

He can do that relatively easily by borrowing a friend or families laptop, connecting it directly to the router via ethernet and turning off wireless on the router (rules out neighbours hijacking and using the wireless) and runnig speed tests.

L1011

bk wrote: »

I've seen and dealt with many cases where it was the case. Many places around the country still only have very limited backhaul from the local exchange.

Of course the op should try and confirm it isn't an issue with his pc.

He can do that relatively easily by borrowing a friend or families laptop, connecting it directly to the router via ethernet and turning off wireless on the router (rules out neighbours hijacking and using the wireless) and runnig speed tests.

I've actually found that in the areas where you'd expect limited backhaul, people are pushing full 7.6mbits when they can get DSL in the first place - Connemara, Erris, etc... never, ever, ever seen an Eircom line underperform by more than about 25% of the sync speed. (current job involves using lots of random eircom/BT/UPC lines all over the country...)

lucernarian

MYOB wrote: »

I've actually found that in the areas where you'd expect limited backhaul, people are pushing full 7.6mbits when they can get DSL in the first place - Connemara, Erris, etc... never, ever, ever seen an Eircom line underperform by more than about 25% of the sync speed. (current job involves using lots of random eircom/BT/UPC lines all over the country...)

Places that seem to have problems include small towns in suburban areas of larger towns or cities. E.g. Douglas in Cork and Termonfeckin near Drogheda.

L1011

I've a customer getting close to the 7.6 paid for in Douglas, but they may be on Vodafone, I actually can't remember...

Neworder79

Broadband offering still decrepit in many rural areas in the West. Eircom stopped upgrading exchanges couple of years so landline BB not an option outside major towns.

NBS is a crock of **** unless you are next to a mast, very unreliable and usually requires you to fry your brain sitting next to a booster box. I've tried to help two relatives set up recently and useless for any sort of streaming Skype or video. Government should never have been allowed call it broadband.

dubhthach

Typical the way one arm of the state causes issues that go against the greater good. In this case the OPW

Telco shifts focus after Garda ruling

IT’S BEEN a mixed start to this year for telecoms equipment group Shared Access, which is backed by JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs.

The US company has been in dispute with the OPW for the past 16 months over its contract to fit masts at 375 Garda stations that are leased to mobile operators.

Shared Access wanted to fit the sites with fibre cables to allow mobile operators to run 3G and data services on the masts.

The OPW resisted and the matter went to arbitration. After a four-day hearing in December, Shared Access has been told the operators’ licences don’t allow them to run fibre cabling across Garda premises. The ruling was binding.

“We’ve got to accept the ruling and move on,” chief executive Chris Jackman told me yesterday.

“But it’s very disappointing. We think that common sense could have prevailed.”

Shared Access’s contract with the OPW runs until the middle of next year. “We will honour the contract,” he said.

Jackman has turned his focus to building a new portfolio comprising sports clubs.

Shared Access is offering to build floodlights free of charge in return for being able to use those pylons to locate telecoms equipment that is rented to mobile operators.

It started with the FAI, with 500 clubs applying for the scheme. Seven are already up and running – Rock Celtic, Cobh Ramblers, Glebe North, Oscar Traynor, Tramore Association FC and Aisling Annacoty.

Jackman has signed deals with Tennis Ireland (140 clubs), the GAA in Dublin (166) and Munster Rugby (70).

It also has deals with convenience retailer Gala and fuel supplier Topaz to use their sites which will be equipped for fibre. Meteor and 3 have signed up while talks with O2 are in train. Jackman estimates half of the sites will be developed for €30 million-plus.

“We’re now able to talk to operators with confidence that we can offer sites that meet their needs. We’re pleased with that.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2011/0304/1224291275016.html

Providing fibre connections to Garda stations would at least create "anchor points" in the local community and make it more attractive for commercial ISP's to offer services to companies as they wouldn't have to worry if there was any fibre in the locality.

FreudianSlippers

That's actually not a bad idea. At least it will push the major infrastructure out and leave very little work to be done by the companies (not that they'll ever do it anyway)

dubhthach

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

That's actually not a bad idea. At least it will push the major infrastructure out and leave very little work to be done by the companies (not that they'll ever do it anyway)

Indeed however as the OPW manage the garda stations (Building mgmt point of view) they obviously don't like someone else threading on their patch. It's strange as they had contracted Shared Access to install the base stations but they won't allow Fibre backhaul. Given that the state is spending €200m on the NBS -- basically mobile broadband -- it's strange that OPW would act this way as it surely affects the provision of the NBS (3 who run the NBS are signed up with Shared Access)

cocoshovel

Many villages around have only recently gained access to O2 wireless broadband, and from what ive seen, its only a small bit faster than dial up.
In my village we only got eircom broadband available 1 year ago.
o2 and all similar broadbands are a joke. 3gb - 10gb download limit? Are you joking me? Hell, even the eircom download limits irritate the crap out of me. Its the best broadband I can get here so I have to deal with it for the moment.
Is there a real legitimate reason for these limits?

dubhthach

cocoshovel wrote: »

Many villages around have only recently gained access to O2 wireless broadband, and from what ive seen, its only a small bit faster than dial up.
In my village we only got eircom broadband available 1 year ago.
o2 and all similar broadbands are a joke. 3gb - 10gb download limit? Are you joking me? Hell, even the eircom download limits irritate the crap out of me. Its the best broadband I can get here so I have to deal with it for the moment.
Is there a real legitimate reason for these limits?

Well there's no such thing as a free lunch ye know the likes of Eircom have to pay for IP Transit and the like for international links. The more traffic on these links the more they gonna end up paying. Of course the provision of more international interconnection helps. As posted in the "Fibre" thread, there's new links been built across the Irish sea. The more international connectivity the better as it drives down wholesale prices that the ISP's have to pay. Sponge Bob would probably be able to give a better explanation, as I don't work in comms myself.

bk

dubhthach wrote: »

Well there's no such thing as a free lunch ye know the likes of Eircom have to pay for IP Transit and the like for international links. .....

Unfortunately the price of BB from Eircom has very little to do with infrastructure (which is relatively very cheap) and everything to do with Eircom needing to pay off their 4 billion depth.

BB infrastructure costs in Ireland aren't much more expensive then Sweden where you have fibre to the home, 100mb+ bb and no caps for about half the cost of Ireland.