old tax books for sale.

dtm

queue massive debate....

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/vintagecars/1857703

not good in my opinion.

2cv

dtm wrote: »

queue massive debate....

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/vintagecars/1857703

not good in my opinion.

This looks highly illegal to me!

Ali Babba

Why is it illegal if you're only collecting them? I have about 3 or 4 hundred of them some uk ones too, as long as they're not being used to ring a car there's nothing wrong with having them.

Sids Not

Ali Babba wrote: »

Why is it illegal if you're only collecting them? I have about 3 or 4 hundred of them some uk ones too, as long as they're not being used to ring a car there's nothing wrong with having them.

So ,as far as the revenue are concerned there are still 3 or four hundred classic cars still out there that are'nt taxed....;)

gyppo

Ali Babba wrote: »

Why is it illegal if you're only collecting them? I have about 3 or 4 hundred of them some uk ones too, as long as they're not being used to ring a car there's nothing wrong with having them.

In the ad thats now gone off the donedeal site, the seller was asking 50E a book - you would need to be a very committed collector to pay that for them, if collecting is your thing.
I would hazard a guess to say that the seller was offering these for sale for purposes other than adding to a collection.

carchaeologist

gyppo wrote: »

I would hazard a guess to say that the seller was offering these for sale for purposes other than adding to a collection.

I think you guess correctly...
There was a guy selling taxbooks at a show in Kerry last year, all old Limerick reg (IU) ones.

Im sure most of us on here have old taxbooks in the drawers alright, but as Ali babba said, its not so much the owning of them, its the selling of them.

quattro777

Most of the ones he had were for cars who's production ended before 1980, so what good were they?

I thought all this would have stopped once the NCT inspections started.

carchaeologist

quattro777 wrote: »

Most of the ones he had were for cars who's production ended before 1980, so what good were they?

I thought all this would have stopped once the NCT inspections started.

Anything older than 1980 doesn't have to be tested....?

corktina

carchaeologist wrote: »

Anything older than 1980 doesn't have to be tested....?

...yet....

aujopimur

When the NCT is extended to vehicles of all ages there will be a lot of suprises for some owners

alpina

aujopimur wrote: »

When the NCT is extended to vehicles of all ages there will be a lot of suprises for some owners

Now that's for sure...;)

ajmboyce

its not against any law to collect tax books. whats the problem with people as soon as tax books are mentioned a police academy is formed in here which is wrong if people want to collect tax books they are quite entitled to its the same as collecting stamps of course no one jumps to the wrong conclusions if a lad is looking for or selling stamps do they! Maybe we should come up with a different word for tax book will that get the parnonia out of people or stupidity even give the tax book issue a rest and find something more important to moan about. I collect tax books my self and I would happily pay 50 euro for one I also collect other old motoring memoribila too is this a crime I think not so if the guy that was selling the tax books sees this please pm me I would be happy to buy any interesting ones you might have.......

Max_Damage

ajmboyce wrote: »

its not against any law to collect tax books. whats the problem with people as soon as tax books are mentioned a police academy is formed in here which is wrong if people want to collect tax books they are quite entitled to its the same as collecting stamps of course no one jumps to the wrong conclusions if a lad is looking for or selling stamps do they! Maybe we should come up with a different word for tax book will that get the parnonia out of people or stupidity even give the tax book issue a rest and find something more important to moan about. I collect tax books my self and I would happily pay 50 euro for one I also collect other old motoring memoribila too is this a crime I think not so if the guy that was selling the tax books sees this please pm me I would be happy to buy any interesting ones you might have.......

The amount of ringers out there has something to do with it.

ajmboyce

there are cowboys in all aspects of life

kev1.3s

I can assure you that it is illegal to hold on to a tax book if you'r not in possession of the vehicle, this is a law that is not enforced here and I myself have several tax books from cars that I used to have but it is required by shannon that the log book be returned in the event of the car being scrapped or sold on! It is a bit silly the amount of paranoia in here regarding tax books but the ringing element is pretty widespread among this community so much so that what used to be an under the table transaction is now blatantly carried out either on the internet or on stalls at vintage shows! as I've said before if people want to delude themselves into thinking they have got something that they've not it's of little concern to me but don't be so blatant and jeopardize the benefits that we all can enjoy as classic car enthusiasts!

gyppo

ajmboyce wrote: »

its not against any law to collect tax books. whats the problem with people as soon as tax books are mentioned a police academy is formed in here which is wrong if people want to collect tax books they are quite entitled to its the same as collecting stamps of course no one jumps to the wrong conclusions if a lad is looking for or selling stamps do they! Maybe we should come up with a different word for tax book will that get the parnonia out of people or stupidity even give the tax book issue a rest and find something more important to moan about. I collect tax books my self and I would happily pay 50 euro for one I also collect other old motoring memoribila too is this a crime I think not so if the guy that was selling the tax books sees this please pm me I would be happy to buy any interesting ones you might have.......

Good for you if that is your thing.

The ad was removed soon after it been published, but as far as I can remember, all the dozen + tax books on offer were pre-1980.
I wonder why that was????

carchaeologist

kev1.3s wrote: »

It is a bit silly the amount of paranoia in here regarding tax books but the ringing element is pretty widespread among this community so much so that what used to be an under the table transaction is now blatantly carried out either on the internet or on stalls at vintage shows! as I've said before if people want to delude themselves into thinking they have got something that they've not it's of little concern to me but don't be so blatant and jeopardize the benefits that we all can enjoy as classic car enthusiasts!

Well said.

I collect tax books my self and I would happily pay 50 euro for one

Genuinely amazed, are you serious?

macplaxton

ajmboyce wrote: »

if people want to collect tax books they are quite entitled to its the same as collecting stamps of course no one jumps to the wrong conclusions if a lad is looking for or selling stamps do they!

Hardly comparable. Stamps are like coins. Vehicle log books are more akin to passports and driving licences.

dtm

yes they were for all pre 1980's cars.

the reason that im against it is that i would like to think that im reducing the possibility of a novice classic car fan buying a nice classic that is then taken off him/her because somone before them ringed it.

i can also see the genuine interest in people collecting tax books.
Not selling them as this person was.

If this person was a genuine collector/enhtusiast then why would he want to sell them?

ajmboyce

dtm wrote: »

yes they were for all pre 1980's cars.

the reason that im against it is that i would like to think that im reducing the possibility of a novice classic car fan buying a nice classic that is then taken off him/her because somone before them ringed it.

i can also see the genuine interest in people collecting tax books.
Not selling them as this person was.

If this person was a genuine collector/enhtusiast then why would he want to sell them?

I think you ll find that collectors buy and sell items all the time and if I have something that someone else wants and hes willing to pay for i will sell it and if someone else has something that I want i will pay for it whether it be tax book,model car,old poster or the car in my garage it would be a pretty boring life without change.

2cv

kev1.3s wrote: »

I can assure you that it is illegal to hold on to a tax book if you'r not in possession of the vehicle

This is what i said at the start!

ajmboyce

That is my point as soon as the person advertising the add put the add up on donedeal the other night he was shot down straight away without been given the benefit of the doubt if a person wants to sell tax books let them I for one will still collect them if I so choose I am doing no harm there is no need to shoot someone down straight away or is the majority of people on this thread complete saints I very much doubt it I would also hate to think that the majority of people here would be or has been ever called for jury duty because its very obvious that your minds are made up before hand without hearing the other side of the story if a person wants to use one of these books to ring a car thats there choice once they dont pass it on to someone else without telling them and its very easy to run a vechicle check on a car these days so a person buying a car will know if a car is genuine or not if they dont check the car out its the buyers lookout for been nieve in the first place. In other words let the subject be and find something else to harp on about!!!!!!!!!!!

Sids Not

If anyone's interested i'm selling Birth certs, driving lisences and passports ............:p

ajmboyce

Sids Not wrote: »

If anyone's interested i'm selling Birth certs, driving lisences and passports ............:p

You can sell away once they belong to persons born after 1980 or that seems to be the general opinion in here anyway..

Basil Fawlty

I really cant understand how these threads dont get locked. Its the same old people talking about the same thing.

I thought boards rules are against multiple threads on the same subject?

carchaeologist

ciarancapri wrote: »

I really cant understand how these threads dont get locked. Its the same old people talking about the same old thing

Combine all the threads so? It's quite a relevant subject IMO?

robtri

2cv wrote: »

This is what i said at the start!

so can you link to this law or statute????

ajmboyce

ciarancapri wrote: »

I really cant understand how these threads dont get locked. Its the same old people talking about the same thing.

I thought boards rules are against multiple threads on the same subject?

Agreed! At last someone with a bit of sense....

Mahatma coat

HAve to Add, I would be a bit interested in Tax book collecting meself, its really rather interesting to get a Fistful of the old ones that have all the change of Ownership and see where the Cars went throughout their lives, Making guesses as to why such and such a person might have bought whichever Car, how long people on average held on to them, Lots of interesting things to be found in Tx books.

That said I would have no doubt that a LOT of the people lookin for Taxbooks are doing somfink Nefarious

Sids Not

ciarancapri wrote: »

I really cant understand how these threads dont get locked. Its the same old people talking about the same thing.

I apologise on the behalf of the "old people"...............:rolleyes:

Threads like these are informative to some ,maybe boring to you others....;)

ajmboyce

Sids Not wrote: »

I apologise on the behalf of the "old people"...............:rolleyes:

Threads like these are informative to some ,maybe boring to you others....;)

what a stupid comment threads like these are not informative they are repetitive its all been said before and by the same people as ciarancapri has said.It s meddlers like you who just want to keep stirring the subject up thats the problem but its obvious to me thats what going on here and I am sure its obvious to others too!!!!!!!

unkel

ajmboyce wrote: »

threads like these are not informative they are repetitive its all been said before

It's true that old tax books have been discussed before. Some have said before that owning a tax book (never mind selling one) is illegal, others have said it is fine. Like robtri, I'd like to see some legislation.

Until we see it, I'm leaving this thread open. If you don't like it, don't post here.

doleman2010

I see the old hobby of tax book collecting is back in vogue, Id bet that collectors have a special interest in the pre 1980 type,I wonder why?
Having said that though, theres nothing like sittin down of an eve with a battered ,filty ,damp, smelly old tax book from a 1978 ford capri in one hand and classic car weekly in the other and dream of how that 1985 2.8inj capri in England would look an awful lot nicer with those nice number plates on it .
Oh but to dream?
please dont wake me until ive done out me add for done deal .
1978 Ford capri 2.8 inj , original Irish car , 1 owner, 1 of a kind, special pre-production model . many 80s features incorperated.
must sell owner moving to Utpopia.free set of blinkers included for new owner.

DarenO

Currently selling a tax book myself it will also require you to buy some metal, rubber and glass but that can be scrapped to make way for a concours import, scrappage costs 50 euro, tax book is currently on offer at a reasonable 1000 euro. This is a must for all tax book collectors. Registration is original pre 81 Irish (you know that means classic tax and no nct, nudge nudge wink wink) and with a little bit of tippex can be made to read SIN 1.

I've said it before and with the risk of sounding either old, stuffy or saintly. We have a very good situation being classic car enthusiasts in Ireland, why let people jeopardise it by falsifying the history of a car to pretend its originally Irish.

I'm actually not a fan of imports, much prefer original Irish cars that have a history here from assembly or private import at massive cost in the 50s/60s right through to surviving crap Irish roads and haphazard driving by nuns with death wishes. Having said that, the old car population and show attendance has greatly improved with more and more cars we never see on Irish roads due to rarity or that other less favourable R word rust.

Without knowledge of the law and under the assumption that if a car is scrapped that the tax book must be returned to the authorities then possession of these legal documents is somewhat dubious.

That's my ten cents rather than the normal two.

doleman2010

There appears to be a huge difference on this forum between the Real classic car people and the tax book collector brigade , the later are extreemly vocal in their response to anything regarding themselves,
The excuses they have for explaining away the obvious are limitless but entertaining anyway .

carchaeologist

DarenO wrote: »

SIN1

March 1970 Kerry.....oh Wait....


I agree, an old crappy nail of an original Irish car with no particular merit in real terms that has survived 30 years of hard roads/driving/owners/multiple scrappage schemes and NCT Tests is infinitely more interesting than a mollycoddled import. That's my 11 cents.

Xlaxeo

I agree that placing Irish identity plates on a foreign vehicle is illegal. But there are many legitimate restorations which involve replacement of bodyshells or chassis.


For example, Mini owners and MG owners can buy replacement shells for their cars. These shells constitute both the body and the chassis.
Land Rovers can replace their chassis but keep the body.
Emilios Beetles replaced sold brand new beetles with old Irish identities and chassis.

Consider the owner of a Mini whose body is rotten in so many areas that a new shell would be a practical option. Would that be considered shady practice here?

How could you legislate to prevent one, but not the other?

corktina

Xlaxeo wrote: »

I agree that placing Irish identity plates on a foreign vehicle is illegal. But there are many legitimate restorations which involve replacement of bodyshells or chassis.


For example, Mini owners and MG owners can buy replacement shells for their cars. These shells constitute both the body and the chassis.
Land Rovers can replace their chassis but keep the body.
Emilios Beetles replaced sold brand new beetles with old Irish identities and chassis.

Consider the owner of a Mini whose body is rotten in so many areas that a new shell would be a practical option. Would that be considered shady practice here?

How could you legislate to prevent one, but not the other?

Using a brand new bodyshell on an old vehicle is perfectly OK. (Using a brand new VEHICLE (or an old imported one) with an old log book is not

Sids Not

doleman2010 wrote: »

There appears to be a huge difference on this forum between the Real classic car people and the tax book collector brigade , the later are extreemly vocal in their response to anything regarding themselves,
The excuses they have for explaining away the obvious are limitless but entertaining anyway .

I think its called "touching a nerve"..........imo its illegal and the people that do it , do it purely for financial gain, they're (most) are not interested in classic cars....we've all met them at shows..

junkyarddog

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ford-escort-mexico-/200572840514?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item2eb312aa42
Selling taxbooks isn't just an irish thing,
It happens elsewhere too.

sid131

He should learn how to spell lol!

Sam Russell

junkyarddog wrote: »

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ford-escort-mexico-/200572840514?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item2eb312aa42
Selling taxbooks isn't just an irish thing,
It happens elsewhere too.

Just needs a bit of filler and a few parts and you would have a great little car.:D

Might do with a re-spray.

corktina

log book is SAWN and so should the car be....:D

si_guru

Sam Russell wrote: »

Just needs a bit of filler and a few parts and you would have a great little car.:D

Might do with a re-spray.

Why bother it will NCT exempt. Drive it as is!

Sids Not

If it was over here they'd be looking for €5000 for it.......:rolleyes:

salysol

This is a fasinating debate,but as a matter of interest when did you last read a Tax books requirements ?
i have a good few old books , and the difference in the wording of the pre 83 books and books issued after that date is amazing.
i have an old 1980 starlet book ,under the roads act 1920.
it says in paragraph 4 the following.
if you sell ,trade in or dispose of the vehicle , you should hand over the book to the new owner,and you must notify your licensing authority in writing of the name and address of the new owner and the date of sale.
the new owner must fill in his name and address on the next owner '' space provided and send the book to the licensing authority for the area.
on the newer book still under the road acts 1920.
under the heading ,very important.
it says, [2] do not hand over this book,but the new owner must fill in his name and address in the next owner'' space provided whenform RF2 has been completed.
further,it states the person in whose name the vehicle is registered may or may not be the legal owner of the vehicle.
date of first registration is not evidence as to the year of manufacture of the vehicle.

so explain that if you can,no where on the book does it say you can't collect or sell the book.

doleman2010

Well if you are trying to flog your 1980 starlet book you may not get a fortune for it , the plate swappers are mainly interested in pre 80 documents that avoid the nct centres where they MAY be rumbled.
Have a look for 77,78,79 ones especially Fords . as they seem to have a definite liking for time travel, its no bother to fit an 80s capri or cortina into the time travel machine and send it back 4 or 5 years.
Stick it on the ould dumb deel and your away .

salysol

doleman2010 wrote: »

Well if you are trying to flog your 1980 starlet book you may not get a fortune for it , the plate swappers are mainly interested in pre 80 documents that avoid the nct centres where they MAY be rumbled.
Have a look for 77,78,79 ones especially Fords . as they seem to have a definite liking for time travel, its no bother to fit an 80s capri or cortina into the time travel machine and send it back 4 or 5 years.
Stick it on the ould dumb deel and your away .

t
That was only an example,to point out the flaws on the books.
the difference in wording is the point ?

rotorhead

Log on www.motortax.ie

form rf 2oo

read section when to use this form

states return tax book to to your local tax office

So you should not have a tax book for a vehicle which you don't own

salysol

rotorhead wrote: »

Log on www.motortax.ie

form rf 2oo

read section when to use this form

states return tax book to to your local tax office

So you should not have a tax book for a vehicle which you don't own

change of ownership, the books i have are of no relevance,as the vehicles they belonged to no longer exist,mainly due to them being broke up in the field,by the kids.

urtooky

salysol wrote: »

change of ownership, the books i have are of no relevance,as the vehicles they belonged to no longer exist IN IRELAND having gone abroad for RESTORATION,(

Fixed that for you

Please Lads, I Am Joking