Kings Inns entrance exams 2011

legaleagle10

Hi there,

So I had a look over the constiutional course work for KI. OMG im totally overwhelmed:(, can't for the life of me get my head around Separation of Powers it just goes on and on and on!!

I've never done evidence before and corroboration is confusing me a bit, just cant understand the warning bit, is it the judge gives the warning if they think something will implicate the accussed?? sigh. I read over the 2010 evidence paper exam "Critically discuss the presumption of marriage" huh?? I've looked at my evidence book and its nowhere to be seen!? Does anyone have any A. what the presumption of marriage is or B. any ideas of the hot topics for evidence?

Having spoken to past student and my own mates who sat the KI entrance exams they speak ALOT about the exam week itself saying you need stamina for the week and its THE most stressful week...I have visions of Rocky running up the steps with the theme tune in the background!:D

Anyone else thinking of doing them this year?

thanks
LE

Tom Young

If it's any consolation you are not alone. If you have the relevant subjects and an approved degree to sit the exam, 7 months is more than adequate time to do very well in same. Let there be no panic!

legaleagle10

Tom Young wrote: »

If it's any consolation you are not alone. If you have the relevant subjects and an approved degree to sit the exam, 7 months is more than adequate time to do very well in same. Let there be no panic!

Hi Tom, thanks for reply.

I know a few people have said that to me "ahh sure you've looooads of time" but the thing is I work full time so i dont really get much time to study - if I didnt have to work and could study full time I wouldnt even be thinking about the exams I dont think. There just seems so much to do! I tend to write out alot of notes its the only way I seem to learn, I spent more than a week writing SOP and still havent finished!. Its good to know Im not the only one thinking it though!

Tom Young

Well I know there was a thread dealing with study techniques and I think the poster Reloc8 gave some useful tips.

You must make time if you have a problem with a subject or consider a grind or two. The concepts in Constitutional are important but once you have them the rest should be relatively simply. Kelly is clear on this area and there is no substitute for reading the Constitutional text itself. Fergus Ryan's Constitutional Nutshell has been updated also, worth considering to flush out the areas you have problems with - its about 22 Euro.

legaleagle10

Yea, i think its worth getting the nutshell in Constitutional, might help me out somewhat!

Tom Young wrote: »

Well I know there was a thread dealing with study techniques and I think the poster Reloc8 gave some useful tips.

You must make time if you have a problem with a subject or consider a grind or two. The concepts in Constitutional are important but once you have them the rest should be relatively simply. Kelly is clear on this area and there is no substitute for reading the Constitutional text itself. Fergus Ryan's Constitutional Nutshell has been updated also, worth considering to flush out the areas you have problems with - its about 22 Euro.

legaleagle10

Does anyone know if you can bring the constitution into the exam with you?

if the exams are passed how soon do you enter into the Inns - Im thinkin in relaiton to work if I get the results in September when do I (hopefully) go into the Inns?

Tom Young

Yes you can, but it is pretty useless. I believe copies are provided by the Inns.

Re. Process. Usually the first week in October, subject to results.

Tom

FreudianSlippers

legaleagle10 wrote: »

I've never done evidence before and corroboration is confusing me a bit, just cant understand the warning bit, is it the judge gives the warning if they think something will implicate the accussed?? sigh. I read over the 2010 evidence paper exam "Critically discuss the presumption of marriage" huh?? I've looked at my evidence book and its nowhere to be seen!? Does anyone have any A. what the presumption of marriage is or B. any ideas of the hot topics for evidence?

I can't obviously know your circumstances or tell you what to do... but if it were me in your position I'd be applying for the Independent or Griffith prep course.

It's worth it for a variety of reasons, one in particular being that you can really hone your study on areas where you can tell you're lacking knowledge.

legaleagle10

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I can't obviously know your circumstances or tell you what to do... but if it were me in your position I'd be applying for the Independent or Griffith prep course.

It's worth it for a variety of reasons, one in particular being that you can really hone your study on areas where you can tell you're lacking knowledge.

Hi, thanks for the reply, I actually got the manuals from Indo which are brilliant but with evidence (and constitutional if im honest) im still confused.com now in fairness i've only glanced at the manual but i was like "huh"? :(Hopefully a bit of study might sort me out! There's just SOOO much to the exams, hope I get the notes done in time (as I work FT and weekends are spent running around doing things I cant get to on the weekday).

legaleagle10

Hey guys, can anyone answer me this, does the below (Question 2 on the Student Declaration form) mean you cant be employed going into the Inns (which I wont be) and that you must list your previous jobs?? can anyone clarify? cheers


2. I declare that I have not been and am not carrying on a trade, practice or profession and am not or have not engaged in any employment for remuneration save as follows:

(i)…………………………………………

(ii)…………………………………………

(iii) ……………………………………….

paky

legaleagle, did you not cover separation of powers in your degree?

legaleagle10

Yes i did,a loooooooooooooong time ago

paky wrote: »

legaleagle, did you not cover separation of powers in your degree?

Kosseegan

legaleagle10 wrote: »

Yea, i think its worth getting the nutshell in Constitutional, might help me out somewhat!

The thing to do is read judgements. nutshells and the like are for introduction and revision. You need to get an understanding of the principles involved. You should read proper books at this stage in your legal education. Lord Dennings book "The discipline of law" is an excellent book to read. It gives a very good account of the struggle between the executive , parliament and the courts.

legaleagle10

Hi Kosseegan, thanks for that will have a look at Dennings book, is it one of those hard back legal books or paper back? Also looking into getting the nutshell, dont want to overload myself with information from the manuals and the nutshell?

Kosseegan wrote: »

The thing to do is read judgements. nutshells and the like are for introduction and revision. You need to get an understanding of the principles involved. You should read proper books at this stage in your legal education. Lord Dennings book "The discipline of law" is an excellent book to read. It gives a very good account of the struggle between the executive , parliament and the courts.

FreudianSlippers

legaleagle10 wrote: »

Hey guys, can anyone answer me this, does the below (Question 2 on the Student Declaration form) mean you cant be employed going into the Inns (which I wont be) and that you must list your previous jobs?? can anyone clarify? cheers


2. I declare that I have not been and am not carrying on a trade, practice or profession and am not or have not engaged in any employment for remuneration save as follows:

(i)…………………………………………

(ii)…………………………………………

(iii) ……………………………………….

It does not mean you cannot be employed, but yes, I believe you need to list your previous jobs.

legaleagle10

cool, thanks for that, just checking :rolleyes:

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

It does not mean you cannot be employed, but yes, I believe you need to list your previous jobs.

Kosseegan

legaleagle10 wrote: »

Hi Kosseegan, thanks for that will have a look at Dennings book, is it one of those hard back legal books or paper back? Also looking into getting the nutshell, dont want to overload myself with information from the manuals and the nutshell?

Paperback.

Don't worry about information overload. There will probably be a new examiner in Constitutional This year. The last one is now on the bench.

legaleagle10

No way!? good to know....hope they don't go mad with the paper!:eek:

will have a look at the book, thanks

Kosseegan wrote: »

Paperback.

Don't worry about information overload. There will probably be a new examiner in Constitutional This year. The last one is now on the bench.

legaleagle10

Hi guys, did anyone else here the rumour there will be a new consitutional examiner for Kings inns entrance exams 2011? Cant remember if it was this post or another one someone said it on?

thanks

legaleagle10

Hey guys,

Has anyone started studying yet for these exams?? I had a look at the syllabus online and a flick through my books and I have to say im a bit freaked out! (take a breath... and calm). I know they're like 5 months away (this year is flying in already!) but i work full time so kinda worried about writing ALL those notes out, that in itself would take months to do and there's the learning part... anxiety starting to build!..:(

NoQuarter

is this years syllabus posted on the inns site yet?

legaleagle10

NoQuarter wrote: »

is this years syllabus posted on the inns site yet?

Nope, its still the 2010 one- I dont think it changes that much

NoQuarter

The woman at the open day said they would update it after easter! To answer your question though, no I havent start studying yet! Have you got Kings Inns manuals? I only have FE1 manuals and am a little afraid to use them!

legaleagle10

yea i got the KI manuals, god I hope they dont change the syllabus radically! I wouldnt worry about using the FE1 manuals - I sat the FE1 before and compaired the two sets of manuals and they are very similar, there is probably more information in the FE1 manual that you dont need (as FE1 students do 5/8 questions and we will be doing 3/5 questions) like in the FE1 criminal manual Practice and Procedure is there, where its not on the syllabus (might change now!) on the KI criminal exam

NoQuarter wrote: »

The woman at the open day said they would update it after easter! To answer your question though, no I havent start studying yet! Have you got Kings Inns manuals? I only have FE1 manuals and am a little afraid to use them!

legaleagle10

NoQuarter wrote: »

To answer your question though, no I havent start studying yet!

Just wondering if ur employed or not? cause probably wouldnt be thinking about it if I had part time work ye know

NoQuarter

Just part time! I am going to slowly start getting my notes together though! So i'm left with plenty of time to study for it! Like you I have 4 FE-1s done in the last sitting before deciding that the solicitor route is not for me! Imagine my bad luck when I realised, of the 4 FE1s I dont, only tort is on the KI entrance exams!! Hows that for bad luck!

legaleagle10

ah now way, that sucks but atleast you can make fresh notes? I only have my Contract and Criminal notes from FE1's but looking back on them now they dont seem good enough? so il have to go through them and add to them and take out bits and pieces from them

NoQuarter wrote: »

Just part time! I am going to slowly start getting my notes together though! So i'm left with plenty of time to study for it! Like you I have 4 FE-1s done in the last sitting before deciding that the solicitor route is not for me! Imagine my bad luck when I realised, of the 4 FE1s I dont, only tort is on the KI entrance exams!! Hows that for bad luck!

legaleagle10

I was browsing through the KI past papers and at the risk of people telling me to my own homework/study, I want to pick peoples legal brains on the below question...I cant get the principle of what it actually relates to? its been wrecking my head (evidently i need to study more :-( .. is it breach of contract, damages for the breakdown? OR could it be promissory estoppel as she "received assurance" that they would arrive on time and she obviously suffered to her detriment? Anyone have an idea or point me in the right direction..

"Nellie has been shortlisted for a job at an investment bank. The day before her interview, she ordered a taxi from Oisin’s taxi firm for 9am next morning, stressing as she made the booking that it was absolutely vital that the taxi would appear on time, and receiving assurances that this would happen. However, the taxi did not appear at all, and Nellie’s many attempts to contact Oisin’s firm went unanswered. Nellie struggled to reach her interview despite this, but was an hour late, and was immediately told that the job has gone to another candidate. It subsequently emerges that Nellie was on paper by far the strongest applicant, but that as punctuality was considered an essential requirement, she was not further considered once she failed to appear for interview. Nellie is so upset that she suffers a nervous breakdown and has not had a job since."
Advise Oisin.

234

First you have to determine if there was in fact a contract. Was there offer and acceptance and if so where did it occur? The consideration is obviously executory. Then you have to look at damages is there was in fact a breach of contract. How are the dmaages limited by the traditional criteria laid down in Hadley v Baxendale? Are general damages available in this case (traditionally they are not in contract but there have been some developments internationally, look at UK cases, in other contexts). If she is claiming for loss of earnings does this fit with contract damages? Did she fail in her duty to mitigate? If she did was it relevant that this failure might have been caused by the taxi company?
Promissory estoppel does not seem relevant as the orthadox view (Coomb v Coomb) is that promissory estoppel cannot found an action; shield not a sword.

legaleagle10

Hi 234, thanks v much for getting back to me, much appreciated.

That clarifies it a good bit for me. What confused me was that O & A was included in another question on the paper, so I was thinking surely O & A wouldnt come up twice on the one paper? Then with the loss of earnings, could she still get damages as she never had any contract of employment/cont for service from the company she might have worked for? I suppose the fact she was the strongest applicant may contribute to her getting damages. In relation to mitigation, I wouldnt of coped that myself tbh, do you mean she should of had alternative arrangements re transport? I cant see an argument there because the taxi company assured her they would arrive on time i.e she relied on them turning up as they assured her they would be on time?

I have to say (suppose keeping in mind i havent revised the course yet) i found that Question quite complicated! I couldnt identify the issues myself at first glance.

234 wrote: »

First you have to determine if there was in fact a contract. Was there offer and acceptance and if so where did it occur? The consideration is obviously executory. Then you have to look at damages is there was in fact a breach of contract. How are the dmaages limited by the traditional criteria laid down in Hadley v Baxendale? Are general damages available in this case (traditionally they are not in contract but there have been some developments internationally, look at UK cases, in other contexts). If she is claiming for loss of earnings does this fit with contract damages? Did she fail in her duty to mitigate? If she did was it relevant that this failure might have been caused by the taxi company?
Promissory estoppel does not seem relevant as the orthadox view (Coomb v Coomb) is that promissory estoppel cannot found an action; shield not a sword.

234

For mitigation I was thinking more along the lines of her suing for continuing loss of earnings and the taxi company claiming that she should have gone out and got a job. She would then claim that this is irrelevant because they caused the problem that prevented mitigaiton. You should not that in some limited circumstances it is possible to recover in contract for what is essentially pain and suffering despite the general rule that you can't. It could be worth looking into this and noting it in an answer.
The issue of the loss of earnings would turn on the normal foreseeability of damages criteria (Hadley v Baxendale). One quesiton would be when the loss crystalises i.e. when should damages be assessed from. Should her nervous breakdown preventing her from getting a job be taken into account for loss of earnings or should it just be based on what was foreseeable at the date of breach.
Not actually sure of the answers to most of these questions off the top of my head. But these are the issues as I see them.

NoQuarter

Guys where can I get the KI manuals from? I do not have the money to do the prep courses as much as I would like to but I'll be fine with the latest manuals, are they available on their own from the KI??

legaleagle10

Hi, yes they are available on their own but the bad news is that they will still cost a couple of hundred each, you could ask if anyone is selling their past manuals? or maybe ask the prep course can you pay in installments or do a deal or something?? they are aware of ppl financial hardships at the moment so maybe ipaying in installments could be an option??

NoQuarter wrote: »

Guys where can I get the KI manuals from? I do not have the money to do the prep courses as much as I would like to but I'll be fine with the latest manuals, are they available on their own from the KI??

FreudianSlippers

NoQuarter wrote: »

Guys where can I get the KI manuals from? I do not have the money to do the prep courses as much as I would like to but I'll be fine with the latest manuals, are they available on their own from the KI??

From Independent College or Griffith College (IMO Indo's are better).

Check adverts.ie or on here.

Brother Psychosis

-the entrance exams are possible with only six weeks of study and without any prep course. If you dare…………….

-as for KI or FE1 manuals, doesn’t really matter which you use, as they both say the law, just check them against the syllabus whenever it gets published and do those subjects, the FE1 manuals are fairly identical AFAIK

-the single hardest thing about the exams is the stamina. by Wednesday, you’ll feel like curling up in a ball and crying. The important thing is to do every exam. One bad exam might go better than you think and the worst thing you can do is give up. That’s not some pseudo motiviational crap, just the truth! No matter how bad you think you did, finish off the week.

-the Inns supply the constitution on the day of the exam.

-assuming you pass, the barrister at law course starts on the first Tuesday in October

NoQuarter

How did you find the course? Are there any shortcomings in it? Im not concerned with small ones but I would expect good lecturers?

FreudianSlippers

NoQuarter wrote: »

How did you find the course? Are there any shortcomings in it? Im not concerned with small ones but I would expect good lecturers?

The Independent College course is fantastic and has people that are, IMO, very knowledgeable in their areas.

NoQuarter

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

The Independent College course is fantastic and has people that are, IMO, very knowledgeable in their areas.

Sorry i should have been clearer, I meant the actual Kings Inns degree!

Brother Psychosis

NoQuarter wrote: »

Sorry i should have been clearer, I meant the actual Kings Inns degree!

its very informative and the standard of teaching is, by and large, very good - all tutors are qualified barristers, but each of them have their own strengths. its a lot of work obviously, particularly reading, but if you stay on top of it its very doable. you'll get lots of experience on your feet, so you need to throw yourself straight in to get as much practice as possible. at the end, there is still a lot of practical stuff you wont know but thats why you have to try your hardest on assigned court visits

NoQuarter

Anyone selling manuals??

NoQuarter

Quick question regarding the exams: Is the syllabus posted on the site the be all and end all?? For instance theres nothing about the Preamble in it, and it only lists about 5 personal rights when there seems to be a hell of a lot more?

So if a topic or sub topic is not on the syllabus, does that mean it wont be in the exam for sure??

legaleagle10

When is the 2011 syllabus coming out, presume its the same... hopefully! I think it comes out around easter time?

I dont think the syllabus itself is the be all and end all but IMO they're topics which may be examined, but thats not to say they could throw something in thats not on it?

NoQuarter wrote: »

Quick question regarding the exams: Is the syllabus posted on the site the be all and end all?? For instance theres nothing about the Preamble in it, and it only lists about 5 personal rights when there seems to be a hell of a lot more?

So if a topic or sub topic is not on the syllabus, does that mean it wont be in the exam for sure??

legaleagle10

six weeks of study, I wish that were true, its taken me 6 weeks alone to write out constiutional notes! from speaking to a few KI heads they recommend 2-3 months study, ...now im freaking myself out! never mind the exams i want to curl up into a ball now!lol:D

Brother Psychosis wrote: »

-the entrance exams are possible with only six weeks of study and without any prep course. If you dare…………….

-as for KI or FE1 manuals, doesn’t really matter which you use, as they both say the law, just check them against the syllabus whenever it gets published and do those subjects, the FE1 manuals are fairly identical AFAIK

-the single hardest thing about the exams is the stamina. by Wednesday, you’ll feel like curling up in a ball and crying. The important thing is to do every exam. One bad exam might go better than you think and the worst thing you can do is give up. That’s not some pseudo motiviational crap, just the truth! No matter how bad you think you did, finish off the week.

-the Inns supply the constitution on the day of the exam.

-assuming you pass, the barrister at law course starts on the first Tuesday in October

legaleagle10

lads, is 2.5 months enough study for the Kings Inns Entrance exams? end May - 1st week in August) aiming for full time study, im asking because my notes i've done so far are taking me fooorreever. Any experience with this?

Brother Psychosis

legaleagle10 wrote: »

six weeks of study, I wish that were true

it is true, i managed it! i wouldn't recommend it, but 2.5 months is plenty if you're just studying full time

legaleagle10

You must be a brainbox, I want your brain!:)

Thanks, hopefully it will work out, keep the head down! its the memorising of things that scares me, i cant remember what I had for dinner yesterday lol, hopefully it'll be alright on the day! I got good marks in the FE1's so hopefully I can pull off ALL 5 in row...scary

Brother Psychosis wrote: »

it is true, i managed it! i wouldn't recommend it, but 2.5 months is plenty if you're just studying full time

Brother Psychosis

all i'll say is that a did an LLM thesis may-june then KI july-august. i wouldnt recommend that route, but it is possible to get Ki done on a small amount of study. i was not healthy afterwards tho, it was a rough few months.

i think i said it a few posts back, but the most important thing about those exams is to do all five, no matter how badly one of them may have gone

legaleagle10

Yea ppl have told me not to give up if one of them goes bad, fingers crossed that wont happen!, I think the hardest thing seems to be the 5 in the row though, that freaks me out! I imagine you would be absolutely wrecked from the week and the study in general, do you have any study tips that might help? Im pretty much writing notes now, havent begun to learn anything yet, seems to be taking ages for the notes to be done. Did you use your notes from the LLM or did you start from scratch?

Brother Psychosis wrote: »

all i'll say is that a did an LLM thesis may-june then KI july-august. i wouldnt recommend that route, but it is possible to get Ki done on a small amount of study. i was not healthy afterwards tho, it was a rough few months.

i think i said it a few posts back, but the most important thing about those exams is to do all five, no matter how badly one of them may have gone

Brother Psychosis

legaleagle10 wrote: »

Yea ppl have told me not to give up if one of them goes bad, fingers crossed that wont happen!, I think the hardest thing seems to be the 5 in the row though, that freaks me out! I imagine you would be absolutely wrecked from the week and the study in general, do you have any study tips that might help? Im pretty much writing notes now, havent begun to learn anything yet, seems to be taking ages for the notes to be done. Did you use your notes from the LLM or did you start from scratch?

no, my LLm was on international law, so it was of no help. without being an idiot, i dont think that there is such a thing as study tips in relation to KI. theres no way of safely predicting questions on the paper. all i did was set a week aside for each subject (by all means, take more than that) and then one week for revision. i just did two or three topics a day, i was only able to cut out two or three small topics in each subject, but, by and large, all the ones i cut out came up in some form or another but only as a small part of a question. its just about the stamina. keep the head down and try get thru as much as you can. the only possible tip i could give is, instead of memorising all cases on a point, just take two or three of the most important

you have loads of time to get thru everything, so don't freak out!!! and dont be daunted by how much is ahead of you!

legaleagle10

thanks a mill for advice, good to hear from someone who sat them, will keep the head down, I have a lot of work to do, but i think its just about chipping away at it bit by bit

Brother Psychosis wrote: »

no, my LLm was on international law, so it was of no help. without being an idiot, i dont think that there is such a thing as study tips in relation to KI. theres no way of safely predicting questions on the paper. all i did was set a week aside for each subject (by all means, take more than that) and then one week for revision. i just did two or three topics a day, i was only able to cut out two or three small topics in each subject, but, by and large, all the ones i cut out came up in some form or another but only as a small part of a question. its just about the stamina. keep the head down and try get thru as much as you can. the only possible tip i could give is, instead of memorising all cases on a point, just take two or three of the most important

you have loads of time to get thru everything, so don't freak out!!! and dont be daunted by how much is ahead of you!

ViP3r

Are these exams 3 hours in duration or 6?