kidney " who to replace him "

outwest

after winning the grad slam which was great,

the way kidney has handled ireland is laughable, tol not even in initial squad but after playing muck all year he will probably start tomoro, same with a few irish players,


i think after the wc player will retire some will stay (id prefer them all to be told to **** off we need a compleat rebuild)

best men for the rebuild would be cheika or white,

its time we get a coach thats not irish, so this utter tripe of provential bias and token ulster player can finally go to bed,

also we neeed to stop central contracts, the english system offf having a eps squad is a much better system, player can get droped when in bad form.

PhatPiggins

New forum low. Well done.

thomond2006

I'd wait till after the Six Nations for a post like that.

Your timing resembles a post mortem before the death.

profitius

Wait until after the world cup. The man is a proven winner.

A question for his critics. He's been in charge of two 6 nations championships and won a grandslam in one. Would you have preferred somebody else to have gotten the job instead of Kidney?

trackguy

Absolutely not. This 6N championship will say alot about his tenure though. I'm not talking about the final position in the table but I think it's very important which players he picks and the way Ireland play. This WC is huge for this generation of Irish players.

Risteard

Who are these token Ulster players we keep hearing so much about?

Trimble? Was in pretty good form before the November internationals and at the end of last year. Still a very decent option, very powerful.

Ferris? Only thing that's stopping Ferris being world class is constant injuries so can't be him.

Rory Best? Despite not being my preference for the hooker position at the moment, hardly a token player. Has a good bit of experience and not in hopeless form.

Telling all the current players to '**** off'? Excellent strategy, I see how that will work.

No matter who the coach is, you'll never get a team selected where everyone is happy with every position. Plus pinning grievances on him solely is laughable, I suppose Kidney is the type of manager that completely ignores other coaches' opinions before selecting a team, despite a long history of this not being the case.

Hopefully nobody.
Hopefully he just sees the light, as many others have before.
Hopefully he just realises that playing our best players might well be a better option than playing our most capped players.
Hopefully he can bring us properly out of the conservative coaching bull**** we've had in Ireland for the last 10 years, as many of our best players near the end of their careers.

He can still do it, tomorrow's team announcement (or whenever it is), is a big test, but I'm not turning my back on him at this stage, cause there's no chance that anyone else will be at the helm in the Summer.

RE: Token Ulster players, I think there are more Ulster players who are unfortunate not to be involved than any other province.

They're a team very much on a return to strength, and the word "Token" is incredibly offensive, and within 18/36 months you'll see some serious Ulster numbers in the national setup in my opinion.

outwest

emmet, what i mean is token ulster player is often used, but nowadays, both ferris and trimble when fit have been great this year,

Ah, I misread it completely. You were saying that having international coach with no allegiances means we can cut out all the BS of people arguing that their provincial player should have been included?

If so, I completely agree. I'd love a completely neutral coach to come in and just do their job without all the politics getting in the way.

fitz

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah, I misread it completely. You were saying that having international coach with no allegiances means we can cut out all the BS of people arguing that their provincial player should have been included?

If so, I completely agree. I'd love a completely neutral coach to come in and just do their job without all the politics getting in the way.

This is exactly why I was hoping the IRFU would appoint a southern hemisphere coach when EOS left. Look what Schmidt has done for Leinster this year. Imagine if we'd got someone like that, who picked on form and was willing to build a squad properly.

Sure, we won the Grand Slam, and everyone was delighted, but I'm not sure we wouldn't have won that year regardless of who was coaching. The team has been in decline since the interpretations changed and Kidney was forced to try and implement a new game plan, which he still hasn't managed to do.

Kidney's appointment was the easy option for the IRFU, but it was short sighted. With the new interpretations that were coming in, they should have been looking at a coach with a proven record of the style of play that reflected the direction the game was moving.

An outsider coming in wouldn't have had the personal relationships that Kidney has with the players. Surely that would have made dropping the "undroppable" players in the squad far more likely if they weren't performing?

Kidney getting the job was a missed opportunity.

JustinDee

And if the Six Nations does come Ireland's way under "Kidney" (again)?
Never mind . . .

The Rooster

I think its truly amazing how Kidney was deemed a genius after the grand slam win and O'Sullivan pilliored as a muppet in many circles, when the only difference between 2009 and some of the years O'Sullivan came close was just a slice of luck.

5 times Eddie came within one game of a grand slam, 3 times lost the championship on points difference only (two of those times having scored the most tries). In 2007 Eddie's team was particularly unlucky - the late Vincent Clerc try denying us a grand slam. And then on the last day, last minute trys by Italy against us and France against Scotland denied us the championship by a points difference of just 4. If our game had been after the France game instead of before it, we most certainly would have been the champions.

We played great rugby at times under Eddie, lots of flair, lots of trys. In 2007 we were excellent but in the end, with a helping of bad luck, we threw it away. Very like in 2009, when we played great (albeit didnt get anywhere the try totals that we did under EOS in 04 and 07), but threw it away on the last day, with the likes of P Wallace and O'Callaghan giving away needless penalties to turn what should have been a rout into a very close game. Thankfully though Wales threw it back to us at the death, and we got the grand slam that we truly deserved after being knocking on the door so long.

To say you can't criticise Kidney because he won the grand slam is just nonsense. It certainly was nothing to do with tactical mastermind that got us over the line in the 2nd half in Cardiff.

Equally I certainly wouldnt be calling for his head. I just really hope he's clever enough to realise that he's still only learing his trade of international coach, and he adapts as such. And I'm really looking forward to see how he copes with a World Cup, which clearly was a step too far for Eddie.

fitz

Justin, a "results now at the cost of development which would lead to more consistent and frequent results" attitude is incredibly short sighted.
That's exactly the attitude we've seen since Kidney took over.
The national team has stagnated under him.
When EOS left, a fresh approach from outsider could have completely rejuvenated a team that has buckets of potential. Instead, we got more of the same, and we're now in a World Cup year with a team who's new playing style has been in the works for nearly two years without successfully being achieved.

I don't know how long we have to wait before we start being objective about the guy, just because he delivered a Grand Slam.

boredatwork82

I will be the next Irish Coach. Just recently passed my level 1.
I will throw ridiculously young and untested players into the highest level of test rugby.
I will move players around to different positions than they normally play. It'll be deadly.
I am a Connacht man, so I won't be able to have any bias towards any Irish players, as Cronin will be a Leinster man!

JustinDee

The Rooster wrote: »

To say you can't criticise Kidney because he won the grand slam is just nonsense. It certainly was nothing to do with tactical mastermind that got us over the line in the 2nd half in Cardiff

Nobody has said anyone is impervious to criticism. There are so many bupkis calls on the team selections, rumours and various other areas that its just hilarious.

On another note, I take it you've forgotten the tactical changes made for the second half in the Millennium. Yielded two tries didn't they?

GerM

The Rooster wrote: »

To say you can't criticise Kidney because he won the grand slam is just nonsense. It certainly was nothing to do with tactical mastermind that got us over the line in the 2nd half in Cardiff.

Interesting to note the leeway afforded to DK 2 years after winning an annual contest where we had been hammering on the door for 5 years but we could all hang Clive Woodward out when the Lions messed up a mere 20 months after he won the World Cup.

GerM

JustinDee wrote: »

On another note, I take it you've forgotten the tactical changes made for the second half in the Millennium. Yielded two tries didn't they?

Tactical changes were minimal in fairness. We huffed and puffed and ground Wales down. ROG's radar was off in the first half and put the ball out on the full and he also tried the crossfield kick in the opening half. Difference was those kicks came good in the second half. A good kick from ROG forced Wales to concede a lineout from which we scored through the pack albeit with BOD getting the touchdown. Bowe's try was a crossfield kick that came off. No dramatic tactical changes to how we were playing.

The only sub made before the 70th minute or so was Leamy for Ferris who was injured.

Ireland won that game for a couple of reasons. Our sheer determination and ferocity up front, our defence and Stephen Jones making a couple of f*ck ups that he probably never made again. If Henson had taken that penalty, if ROG's kick had bounced 6 inches the other way, if Stephen Jones hadn't insanely kicked direct to touch with 3 minutes left we'd have suffered glorious failure again. It was simply our day. I don't think we'll ever get as much luck in a game again.

JustinDee

GerM wrote: »

Tactical changes were minimal in fairness. We huffed and puffed and ground Wales down. ROG's radar was off in the first half and put the ball out on the full and he also tried the crossfield kick in the opening half. Difference was those kicks came good in the second half. A good kick from ROG forced Wales to concede a lineout from which we scored through the pack albeit with BOD getting the touchdown. Bowe's try was a crossfield kick that came off. No dramatic tactical changes to how we were playing.

The only sub made before the 70th minute or so was Leamy for Ferris who was injured.

Ireland won that game for a couple of reasons. Our sheer determination and ferocity up front, our defence and Stephen Jones making a couple of f*ck ups that he probably never made again. If Henson had taken that penalty, if ROG's kick had bounced 6 inches the other way, if Stephen Jones hadn't insanely kicked direct to touch with 3 minutes left we'd have suffered glorious failure again. It was simply our day. I don't think we'll ever get as much luck in a game again.

Where to start . . .
The second half saw some significant tactical changes. The middle third of the pitch was kickthrough territory as opposed to corner flag. The 10 channel (whoever was there) had a backrower on its shoulder at every early phase (not so in the first half). Much more loop running and less skip-passing. Did you notice any changes in defensive rucking tactics? Obviously not. How many were committing? If fewer, where were extras positioning themselves? If more, how did the defensive line cope with the tilt? Notice anything in the defending backline maybe regarding overlaps? This was more obvious. Brave move to invite overlap when in the middle third of pitch. It cleverly brings touchline into play when executed properly.
As for subbing, Leamy was brought on within the first ten minutes (for injury, yes), Best came on for Flannery, Stringer for O'Leary and obviously Wallace for Fitzgerald later on in the game.
And this is just going by memory!

fitz

Justin, you've gone way off topic. Tactical changes during a game are part an parcel of the job. If you can't do that, you're not at the races, and there have been significant problems with making tactical changes during games since the GS.

The bigger issue is strategy, where we look completely ineffectual.

JustinDee

fitz wrote: »

Justin, you've gone way off topic. Tactical changes during a game are part an parcel of the job. If you can't do that, you're not at the races, and there have been significant problems with making tactical changes during games since the GS.

The bigger issue is strategy, where we look completely ineffectual.

I haven't gone off-topic at all. Bag the coaches and expect some reply in return from someone who might actually disagree with one, call bullsh or spot a flaw in one's argument.
The strategy of "Kidney" is obvious to anyone. Have a winning side ready for the RWC.
Personally, I let the results do the talking.
The Six Nations hasn't even flippin' started.

toomevara

wow, crazy thread...rugby and its followers edge ever closer to the hysterical short-sightedness of the wendyball mob, Lord deliver us from the evil thing...

GerM

JustinDee wrote: »

Where to start . . .
The second half saw some significant tactical changes. The middle third of the pitch was kickthrough territory as opposed to corner flag. The 10 channel (whoever was there) had a backrower on its shoulder at every early phase (not so in the first half). Much more loop running and less skip-passing. Did you notice any changes in defensive rucking tactics? Obviously not. How many were committing? If fewer, where were extras positioning themselves? If more, how did the defensive line cope with the tilt? Notice anything in the defending backline maybe regarding overlaps? This was more obvious. Brave move to invite overlap when in the middle third of pitch. It cleverly brings touchline into play when executed properly.
As for subbing, Leamy was brought on within the first ten minutes (for injury, yes), Best came on for Flannery, Stringer for O'Leary and obviously Wallace for Fitzgerald later on in the game.
And this is just going by memory!

I'll give you the kicking direction altered but this was due to Henson moving to 15 and being targetted. Hardly the sign of a tactical mastermind. Most people half cut in the pubs were calling for him to be targetted. It's not like ROG hadn't used a similar tactic earlier in the game but it was far more clearly exposed without Byrne covering. They managed to isolate him more than once and he was badly shown up.

Regarding your comments on the defensive system, we continued to attack the ball carrier and gang tackled them, getting them behind the gain line and preventing them getting the ball out to the speedsters. This forced several turnovers. We committed few numbers to the rucks in the second half to strangle them defensively. It certainly wasn't anything massively different from the first half. We ended up conceding more points in the second half anyway. On our ball we continued to commit numbers. The most significant difference was our error count dropped drastically.

It was a skip pass move to release Bowe (no loop involved) that got us into Welsh territory and a kick to the corner that yielded the line out for BOD's try so certainly not a drastic change there that led to the try.

Bowe's try I recall was a set play that they had practiced in training. It worked a treat. It had the added advantage of having Henson at 15 so was an ideal opportunity to try it.

You seem to agree with me in relation to the subs.

fitz

JustinDee wrote: »

I haven't gone off-topic at all. Bag the coaches and expect some reply in return from someone who might actually disagree with one, call bullsh or spot a flaw in one's argument.
The strategy of "Kidney" is obvious to anyone. Have a winning side ready for the RWC.
Personally, I let the results do the talking.
The Six Nations hasn't even flippin' started.

The Grand Slam was two years ago.
Having a winning side ready for the world cup is not a strategy. It's a goal.
The strategy would be approach to be taken to achieve that goal.
Have we seen any significant improvement in our overall game since the GS?
I'd argue that we haven't.

I think the coaching team have been too slow to adapt to the direction the game has gone, and the selection policies in place are ensuring that form players are left scratching their heads along with the rest of us in trying to figure out what they have to do to break into the team ahead of "undroppables" who just need some game time.

If you want results to do the talking, look at the results we've had since the GS. They say quite a lot.

trackguy

fitz wrote: »

The Grand Slam was two years ago.
Having a winning side ready for the world cup is not a strategy. It's a goal.
The strategy would be approach to be taken to achieve that goal.
Have we seen any significant improvement in our overall game since the GS?
I'd argue that we haven't.

I think the coaching team have been too slow to adapt to the direction the game has gone, and the selection policies in place are ensuring that form players are left scratching their heads along with the rest of us in trying to figure out what they have to do to break into the team ahead of "undroppables" who just need some game time.

If you want results to do the talking, look at the results we've had since the GS. They say quite a lot.

I think there has been a change in the way the team plays (since the end of last year's 6N) I would argue though, up to this point, the right players haven't been selected to implement it.

That is still in a relatively small time period so arguments could be made that certain players weren't ready, were injured or were out of form.

If Ireland are to try and play a more expansive game, certain selections need to be made. This is still the case now with the mini injury crisis.

SOB at 8, Ross at tighthead, Reddan at 9, an attack minded back 3. There are other selections needed but with the injuries they cannot be.

On the other hand, if Ireland are going to revert to the 2009 gameplan, by all means, start TOL and others who will suit it.

I think Kidney is going to surprise a few of us today.

JustinDee

GerM wrote: »

I'll give you the kicking direction altered but this was due to Henson moving to 15 and being targetted
Hardly the sign of a tactical mastermind. Most people half cut in the pubs were calling for him to be targetted. It's not like ROG hadn't used a similar tactic earlier in the game but it was far more clearly exposed without Byrne covering. They managed to isolate him more than once and he was badly shown up

Ah I see. So any old duffer can do better. Thats why you're posting on the internet and "Kidney" & Co. are, well, running the Irish national rugby team.

GerM wrote: »

Regarding your comments on the defensive system, we continued to attack the ball carrier and gang tackled them, getting them behind the gain line and preventing them getting the ball out to the speedsters. We committed few numbers to the rucks in the second half to strangle them defensively. It certainly wasn't anything massively different from the first half. On our ball we continued to commit numbers. The most significant difference was our error count dropped drastically

Then look at the game again.

GerM wrote: »

It was a skip pass move to release Bowe (no loop involved) that got us into Welsh territory and a kick to the corner that yielded the line out for BOD's try so certainly not a drastic change there that led to the try

Again, take a look. There are two backlines. Not a skip across the one. It was a loop run.

GerM wrote: »

Bowe's try I recall was a set play that they had practiced in training. It worked a treat. It had the added advantage of having Henson at 15 so was an ideal opportunity to try it

I'm sure "Kidney" will be glad you liked it then.

fitz

trackguy wrote: »

I think there has been a change in the way the team plays (since the end of last year's 6N) I would argue though, up to this point, the right players haven't been selected to implement it.

That is still in a relatively small time period so arguments could be made that certain players weren't ready, were injured or were out of form.

If Ireland are to try and play a more expansive game, certain selections need to be made. This is still the case now with the mini injury crisis.

SOB at 8, Ross at tighthead, Reddan at 9, an attack minded back 3. There are other selections needed but with the injuries they cannot be.

On the other hand, if Ireland are going to revert to the 2009 gameplan, by all means, start TOL and others who will suit it.

I think Kidney is going to surprise a few of us today.

This is the absolute crux of it.
To date, it's been "square peg, round hole" with the game plan/selections.

Justin, what's with the "Kidney" in quotes the whole time?

GerM

JD, I'm sure you can reply and debate points without having to post in a condescending manner. Don't take it so personally when someone disagrees with you!

irishbucsfan

JustinDee wrote: »

The Six Nations hasn't even flippin' started.

This is the key point.

Also, changing coaches this year would be detrimental anyway. Lets allow Kidney to finish out the World Cup and if we are still being unsuccessful then we can look at replacing him.

We have been very poor since the Grand Slam and he must take the blame for that, but he deserves the chance to turn it around.

fitz

irishbucsfan wrote: »

This is the key point.

Also, changing coaches this year would be detrimental anyway. Lets allow Kidney to finish out the World Cup and if we are still being unsuccessful then we can look at replacing him.

We have been very poor since the Grand Slam and he must take the blame for that, but he deserves the chance to turn it around.

I agree, far too late in the day to be changing things this year.
I just can't help but wonder where we could have been as a team by now if we'd brought in an outsider post-Eddie.

Tim Robbins

I'd go for a coach that isn't from Ireland and has never worked here to avoid all the tribal cr*p.

I think Kidney favours the kicking, terriortory game and low risk taking. It's effective but bloody boring at times. I bought the grand slam DVD and only watched the French game from beginning to end again - the rest was boring.

JustinDee

GerM wrote: »

JD, I'm sure you can reply and debate points without having to post in a condescending manner. Don't take it so personally when someone disagrees with you!

I don't take any of that personally. I answer as I would were it a face-to-face conversation and I'm certainly not condescending, even to an anonymous moniker on the internet.

Spud83

irishbucsfan wrote: »

We have been very poor since the Grand Slam and he must take the blame for that, but he deserves the chance to turn it around.

Didn't we have a fairly decent November series following the Grand Slam. certainly not poor.

The way I see it Kidney has had two years, one good year, one bad year. I don't know what this year will bring, and I certainly won't be making judgements before the first team for the six nations has even been selected.

Kidney will get the world cup at least, so even discussing who to replace him with seems crazy to me.

Not Lievremont anyway...

irishbucsfan

Deleted User wrote: »

Not Lievremont anyway...

Watch them win another Grand Slam!

irishbucsfan

Spud83 wrote: »

Didn't we have a fairly decent November series following the Grand Slam. certainly not poor.

The way I see it Kidney has had two years, one good year, one bad year. I don't know what this year will bring, and I certainly won't be making judgements before the first team for the six nations has even been selected.

Kidney will get the world cup at least, so even discussing who to replace him with seems crazy to me.

While we did beat South Africa in that series, we were quite poor in our first game against Australia. I think you could call it either way.

Absolutely, but could you imagine what this forum would be like if Tommy Bowe was dropped for Ian Dowling, and then the following week we saw Frankie Sheahan play at 12?

Mal O'Kelly to Full Back would be an experiment worth trying I suppose?

Spud83

irishbucsfan wrote: »

While we did beat South Africa in that series, we were quite poor in our first game against Australia. I think you could call it either way.

So beating South Africa, and drawing with Australia within one series is now poor. Oh how far we have come.

Listen I agree that last year was poor, wrong selections, and what looked like a struggle by the coaches, and the players to get to grips with the new rule interpretations, and implementing a game plan to deal with them. I just don't believe that Kidney should be hung drawn and quartered yet, and trust me November tested my patience, I just hope the six nations doesn't.

Kidney and the team has been here before in fact they have been lower, and they turned that around and came up with a game plan capable of winning the grand slam. I still believe they can do it again.

Performances in AIs is more important than results I feel.

And we haven't performed well in AIs at all!

Podge_irl

I have some (okay, a lot of) problems with Kidney but at this point I'm willing to give him this 6N before I make my mind up.

However, while his selections can be irritating they are, by a distance, not the biggest problem I have with him nor should they be the biggest problem anyone here has with him. The team are playing awful, awful rugby. They look headless out there and I'm not sure it matters who he picks unless he gets his tactics and training in order. They won the GS playing turgid rugby that was never going to yield continued success imo. In the last 12 months they have been appalling. They seem to constantly try and play rugby they're not suited to - be it trying to grind teams down without the pack to do it, or trying to run things wide far too early and ineffectively.

This 6N will tell us a lot about what Kidney can do for Ireland post-RWC. He's had one great year and one awful year. Between now and Nov we'll learn what he's truly capable of. If they put in a good showing in the 6N (which doesn't even mean winning it) I'll admit I was wrong (for clarification, I was against Kidney's appointment though was obviously happy with the GS so I'm already a little wrong) and that he has what it takes.

Teferi

I'm holding a final judgement on Kidney until our final result in the WC. I think it's only fair to give him that chance. If there isn't a good finishing position with good performances in the WC then let him have a final 6N and send him on his way. If he does good then that's a different story...

lologram

JustinDee wrote: »

The strategy of "Kidney" is obvious to anyone.

JustinDee wrote: »

Thats why you're posting on the internet and "Kidney" & Co. are, well, running the Irish national rugby team.

I'm sure "Kidney" will be glad you liked it then.

How come Kidney's name is in quotation marks? I'm genuinely confused as to what this implies.

donfers

It seems the moderators are happy enough to allow this debate which I find quite strange

all I'll say is that a coach who has won Heineken Cups (first ever for Ireland involving a full strength competition) and our first Grand Slam in over 60 years deserves a bit more respect from armchair fans who are annoyed their provincial favourites aren't in the team

I also hate the way John Hayes is constantly pulverised in this forum, yes I agree he is not good enough anymore and shouldn't be selected in Irish squads but the way people casually dismiss the guy and put him down is an insult to the guy that his devoted his whole career to giving his best for province and country and played a huge part in the renaissance of Irish rugby, again say he's not good enough all you want, just try not to belittle a great servant to the game.....this is all about opinions of course and people should be allowed to criticise but sometimes it's just too spiteful and disrespectful and rooted in provincial kinship (in the same way Munster fans gave huge stick to BOD in the past but have been silenced by the great man's feats in recent years), we are all Irish and supporting the team should unite us rather than cause antagonism, now I'll get down off my high horse and let you get on with it

lologram

lologram wrote: »

How come Kidney's name is in quotation marks? I'm genuinely confused as to what this implies.

It's to distinguish him from a real, actual kidney. The two are often confused.

LostinBlanch

Well I'm going slightly OT on this here and not calling for DK's head. But there is one thing that the IRFU is falling down badly on and that is top level training of Irish coaches.

Matt Williams said this on Newstalk last week and IMO he's right. Why are Schmidt, McGahan et al not told by the IRFU that they have to train up some Irish coaching talent the same way they have to bring young Irish players through? You know have at least one Irish coach in their backroom teams? The IRFU should be thinking long term. I know Ulster has an Irish coaching team but to me that's more of necessity than design though.

Oh and good luck to the lads, I don't think anyone is going to disagree with this!

donfers

donfers wrote: »

It seems the moderators are happy enough to allow this debate which I find quite strange

all I'll say is that a coach who has won Heineken Cups (first ever for Ireland involving a full strength competition) and our first Grand Slam in over 60 years deserves a bit more respect from armchair fans who are annoyed their provincial favourites aren't in the team

I also hate the way John Hayes is constantly pulverised in this forum, yes I agree he is not good enough anymore and shouldn't be selected in Irish squads but the way people casually dismiss the guy and put him down is an insult to the guy that his devoted his whole career to giving his best for province and country and played a huge part in the renaissance of Irish rugby, again say he's not good enough all you want, just try not to belittle a great servant to the game.....this is all about opinions of course and people should be allowed to criticise but sometimes it's just too spiteful and disrespectful and rooted in provincial kinship (in the same way Munster fans gave huge stick to BOD in the past but have been silenced by the great man's feats in recent years), we are all Irish and supporting the team should unite us rather than cause antagonism, now I'll get down off my high horse and let you get on with it

1st comment is ridiculous, the problems people have with the team involve 3 positions primarily. #5,#9,#15. At 5 we have possibly the most underperforming 2nd row who plays in any of the provinces at present. 9 is a coinflip, so I'm alright with that, and 15 should've been Duffy.

Just because they play for a province that I don't follow around the world, doesn't mean that I wouldn't have them in my national squad.

2nd Comment
Every single discussion involving John Hayes has had almost universal agreement that his coaches are doing him a disservice. I haven't heard anyone complain about him wanting to give it his all.

Personally, all I've said about him is constructive criticism, and expressed disgust that management, who should have his best interests at heart too, are effectively betraying him, and are aiding in people remembering him as a past it rugby player, rather than an Irish legend.

And thirdly, I will add to your comment about us coming together, we only have what, 10 weekends a year when the whole island should be united in roaring ourselves hoarse and giving it all behind the national squad. Doesn't matter who's playing, doesn't matter who's coaching, doesn't even matter if you can't see it! They're wearing the Irish jersey, representing the entire island, and if you turn your back on them because "the coach" picked the "wrong player" you should be ashamed. (Donfers isn't "you" in this case, I'm agreeing with him)

Dave Joyce

Totally disgusted with the team selection today. I know a lot of players aren't thin skinned BUT when you're in form and playing well and others who are NOT performing HALF as well still make the squad:rolleyes:

I would rate DOC fairly highly BUT DEFINATELY think Leo Cullen SHOULD be starting ahead of him. As far as TOL goes, he would be way down IMHO and I'd have Strings, Issac Boss or Eoin Reddan ahead of him.

And if you want to call it playing the provincial card, fair enough but to drop Gavin Duffy completely is complete BS. I thought it was bad enough in AI's when Gavin was playing great for Connacht to pluck Geordan Murphy out of no where when Rob Kearney was injured BUT to play an out of position, out of form Fitzy is cock!

Just to clarify, while I might be sickened at some of those selections, I WILL be roaring my ass off when the lads are playing AND the very best to the team, I do hope ""Kidney's"" selections prove me wrong!

profitius

SOB, McFadden, Fitz at fullback, Earls on the wing, Ross are all included and still people are whinging about it.

trackguy

profitius wrote: »

SOB, McFadden, Fitz at fullback, Earls on the wing, Ross are all included and still people are whinging about it.

Alot of ppl are moaning about the fact that Fitz is at fullback. The other calls you mention were expected.

DOC and TOL selections are highly contentious and were always going to provoke debate (That's debate, not whinging)

I'm sure everybody here is behind the team but a few of the selections (2 to be precise) are disappointing.

profitius

trackguy wrote: »

Alot of ppl are moaning about the fact that Fitz is at fullback. The other calls you mention were expected.

Duffy would be the safer option but it looks likes they're taking a gamble on Fitz there to give him a game there even though he hasn't played too much. I'd prefer them to gamble on young players instead of taking the safe option.

PhatPiggins

trackguy wrote: »

Alot of ppl are moaning about the fact that Fitz is at fullback. The other calls you mention were expected.

DOC and TOL selections are highly contentious and were always going to provoke debate (That's debate, not whinging)

I'm sure everybody here is behind the team but a few of the selections (2 to be precise) are disappointing.

Anyone who was expecting McFadden to start is pushing it