RTE/Indo propaganda machine in full swing

DB10

Lenihan story deserves new chapter

When it comes to talent and leadership the Finance Minister has few equals, writes Brendan O'Connor



Sunday January 30 2011

Before we rush headlong into this brave new world, with this election that is going to fix everything, and this new leader of Fianna Fail that's going to make a whole new party of it, let us pause for a moment to consider what just happened.



Because it all happened very quickly, and in our haste to move onto the next phase of our lives, when everything is going to be OK, we should not skip over what just happened.
Someone mentioned to me the other day that he saw Brian Lenihan on TV after the result of the Fianna Fail leadership contest and he thought, "That's a man who is slipping off into the mists of history". And it was kind of sad, and you found yourself thinking, as you did with Katy French, or Gerry Ryan or George Lee: Is that how that story turned out? Is that how that ended?



And, just as importantly, you wonder why it ended like this for a man who today's Sunday Independent/Millward Brown poll still shows to be one of the most popular politicians in the country -- despite only one in 25 people being satisfied with the Government of which he was a member.
And as much as we have all apparently made up our minds about Lenihan, now that he apparently threw it all away on a lunchtime radio interview, do you not feel a tiny bit uneasy about how it is all ending?



On Tuesday, after 1,000 days as Finance Minister, Lenihan will shuffle off, his story over for now in terms of history. These were 1,000 days, whatever you think about specific decisions, in which he showed amazing courage and strength, 1,000 days in which he inspired anyone in this country who has a cross to carry, 1,000 days in which he made us all wonder how we would choose to spend our time if we had the excuse and the curse of serious illness, 1,000 days in which he caused every man in this country to contemplate our own mortality, to wonder what our own priorities would be if we were fighting a potentially fatal disease. It was also 1,000 days in which Lenihan, on accession, galvanised us in a way that no other member of the Government did.



It would take a certain kind of man to want to be Finance Minister of this country at any time. It would take an even rarer man to want to be Finance Minster of this country in the last three years. There is possibly only one man who would want to be Finance Minster amid this crisis while also being critically ill. And we know that to start with Lenihan wasn't that man. He cribbed a bit at the beginning about being made the Finance Minister that was going to oversee the worst financial and economic crisis in the history of the State. And who could blame him? But then, he got up and started fighting. He fought his way into the brief and he fought his way through it -- admittedly with mixed results.



In fact, to look at Lenihan and his Taoiseach over the last few years one would have said that the Taoiseach was the sick man and not Lenihan. In the face of overwhelming torpor from the top, as the Taoiseach and his Dail kept their long holidays while the country disintegrated around them, Lenihan was a ball of energy.
He made mistakes, of course. He didn't always do things as well as we would have liked. But in acknowledging that, let's not forget that Lenihan was standing on the shoulders of midgets when he made these mistakes. Every single man jack of the financial/fiscal/economic establishment in this country was clueless through the last few years. The people who were supposed to be regulating the financial system weren't. The system itself was continually lying through its teeth until it was caught out, and then it would roll back the lies and retrench again, until it was caught out again. And as for Lenihan's Department of Finance, well their record tells its own story.



But despite those mistakes, none of us ever really questioned that Lenihan was a good man. Extraordinarily, in today's Sunday Independent /Millward Brown poll, in which his Government enjoys a record 95 per cent dissatisfaction, Lenihan still enjoys a 36 per cent satisfaction rating. Certainly it is down on the 53 per cent satisfaction he enjoyed this time last year, but it beats the hell out of Brian Cowen's 10 per cent and Mary Coughlan's 15 per cent. It is also miles ahead of Enda Kenny's 26 per cent satisfaction rating, and Enda Kenny is going to be the Taoiseach, apparently.



In the end it was not really his mistakes that would bring Lenihan down. The conventional narrative now is that Lenihan was brought down because of one ill-judged interview on the radio, where he backed his leader. Subsequently, John McGuinness, among others, claimed that Lenihan was talking out of both sides of his mouth because he had been participating in dissatisfied discussion around Leinster House about the state of the leadership of Fianna Fail. Personally, I would think Lenihan would want to be daft and simple not to have participated in discussions about the state of the leadership of Fianna Fail in recent months. Neither do I understand why it was such a major crime then for Lenihan to back Cowen so close to an election when he clearly judged, as did two thirds of his colleagues, that this was not the time to oust the leader. Given the elation that has greeted Micheal Martin's elevation to the leadership, Lenihan may have been wrong about that, as were two thirds of his colleagues. But then again, the day he gave that interview, Lenihan was severely underestimating Cowen's kamikaze tendencies.



From there on it all happened very quickly. Lenihan went from hero to zero. Martin was crowned and even Eamon O Cuiv, whose ideas about Fianna Fail and the country were vaguely progressive when his grandfather was espousing them 100 years ago, beat Lenihan in the first count, tied on the second count before going on to finish in second place on the third and final count when Lenihan was eliminated.



So if it wasn't Lenihan's record in Finance that caused his career in the big league to end in such ignominy, do we really believe that it was one tactical error that got pounced on by the media that finished him?
Maybe. But there may be more to it than that. David Davin-Power gave a hint of it on RTE news the other night. He said roughly speaking that no one was suggesting that Cowen rallied behind O Cuiv or that they were encouraged to do so, but that's just what happened. In other words there was a suggestion that Cowen's supporters who weren't supporting Lenihan were encouraged to effectively spoil their votes and spoil Lenihan's chances by voting for O Cuiv, a man who didn't exactly seem devastated not to win the leadership, who had really only come to the whole thing late, and who didn't seem to exactly throw his heart and soul into campaigning.



Which makes you think. Wouldn't it be sad to think that Brian Lenihan's 1,000 days ended in ignominy because the outgoing power scuppered his chances of the leadership, because the bar lobby crowd made noises that people should vote for O Cuiv instead? Wouldn't it be annoying to think that this was Cowen's last gift to the nation he led up the garden path for the last three years? Wouldn't it be awful to think that spite and jealousy did it for Lenihan in the end?



But then it would be understandable if Cowen and his buddies were a bit jealous and resentful of Lenihan. Why should Cowen get all the blame and all the grief for what happened over the last few years while Lenihan, who was Finance Minister, walked away with the leadership? Cowen can't but have noticed over the last few years that while the people turned violently against him, they somehow kept believing in Lenihan. Put simply, even though Cowen and Lenihan were there together leading the administration, people didn't like Cowen and they somehow liked Lenihan.



Of course this probably wasn't the first time a guy like Cowen had felt in the shadow of someone like Lenihan. When you are from the country, and you have the darkness in you, and your face and your facial expression doesn't conform to people's idea of what a happy cheerful face should look like, and then you are confronted with better looking, more confident and more upbeat Dublin lads with a better way about them, you can often start to resent these golden boys. And for all we know Cowen could have been surrounded by golden boys all his life, those guys who were never as smart as Cowen or as deserving as Cowen but guys whom, somehow, the light just shone through in a way it didn't through Cowen. And here was Lenihan again. Cowen was the leader and Lenihan was the one in charge of the economy, which was tanking. But somehow the people loved Lenihan and not Cowen. It must have seemed unfair to Cowen and maybe this unfairness was familiar to Cowen and brought him back to more primitive, immature reactions.



Not that, as the DPP, would say, anyone is suggesting all this is true. But Jesus, wouldn't it be an awful thing if this is how Lenihan's story ends, and if it ended like this due to old-fashioned jealousy, and the last cute stroke of a man who we thought had gone a stroke too far.
When the euphoria that seems to surround Fianna Fail and its resurgent grassroots dies down, in the dark days ahead, they could miss their golden boy. When it comes to talent and leadership there aren't many others like him in Fianna Fail.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/lenihan-story-deserves-new-chapter-2516692.html

To think FF on it's last legs and still the ELITE want to ram sympathy down our throats through national media such as RTE and the Indo.

Brendan O'Connor
Ryan "Smug" Tubridy
Pat Kenny
Gay Byrne (he'll be squeezed into some programme)
Sean O'Rourke
etc

These pathetic men, get to chair vital political programmes, daily newspaper columns, one may even chair leader debates. Their FF cheering and belittling of other parties already in full gear, trying to save their MASSIVE WAGES and handy life given from the FF elite.

Don't believe a word, of any programme with these men chairing the programme or any column in the papers.

Don't be fooled by their antics. Only in Ireland would this go on.

Would be funny if Sky News robbed their debates.

Only in Ireland.

Nodin

Brendan O'Connor...doing "analysis".....ahaha. Yeah.

"Because it all happened very quickly, and in our haste to move onto the next phase of our lives, when everything is going to be OK, we should not skip over what just happened. "

Is this even written in English?

Gunsfortoys

bluewolf wrote: »

"Because it all happened very quickly, and in our haste to move onto the next phase of our lives, when everything is going to be OK, we should not skip over what just happened. "

Is this even written in English?

I like to call it the Alison O'Riordan dialect.

Indo morons speak it mostly.

FatherLen

i for one thought that this was too long so i did not read it.

Badgermonkey

Indo sure,

RTE how so?

I've never voted FF and I have never detected a pronounced RTE bias.

squod

The continual stream of apologists and deluded commentators have turned me right off RTE. They're showing the crony-ism of the organisation. They'll have a lot to loose under a reasonable government.

Let's face it, RTE is a soap box for the fraudsters.

DB10

FatherLen wrote: »

i for one thought that this was too long so i did not read it.

I know I'm the OP but neither did I read it all.

You can see from skimming through the middle what revisionist bollocks it all is. Why waste time tbh.

gbee

What did it say, I got sick after the first paragraph.

DB10

Badgermonkey wrote: »

Indo sure,

RTE how so?

I've never voted FF and I have never detected a pronounced RTE bias.

TROLL ALERT

I've listed the men in question in the OP.

You either never heard of them and "Tubbers" (:rolleyes:), or only watch shows like Home and Away.

muckwarrior

DB10 wrote: »

Only in Ireland would this go on.

Only in Ireland would a certain section of the media show a bias toward one political party? Eh, no. I think you'll find it's just as bad, if not worse, in many countries.

DB10

muckwarrior wrote: »

Only in Ireland would a certain section of the media show a bias toward one political party? Eh, no. I think you'll find it's just as bad, if not worse, in many countries.

Certain section eh?

Basically the whole national television which WE PAY license fees for, barring of course the language channel rarely watched and TV3.

And the most bought newspaper in Ireland.

Maybe it happens in 3rd world countries, but it doesn't happen in Western "Developed" countries.

Cuddlesworth

muckwarrior wrote: »

Only in Ireland would a certain section of the media show a bias toward one political party? Eh, no. I think you'll find it's just as bad, if not worse, in many countries.

Rupert Murdock......

Jeboa Safari

The Sindo have being pushing to get rid of Brian Cowen for the last 6 months at least, every Sunday they had a negative story on the front page about him, hoping for Brian Lenihan to take over, not sure how they've taken to MM

DB10

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Rupert Murdock......

Taking O'Connor's English lessons are we.

Mark200

DB10 wrote: »

TROLL ALERT

I've listed the men in question in the OP.

You either never heard of them and "Tubbers" (:rolleyes:), or only watch shows like Home and Away.

Listing names does not show how they are biased.

People only look for any bias because they think it should be there because the station is partially state-financed.

jimthemental

That is some tripe O'Connor threw in there. Indo is bad but nowhere near RTE on these stakes. We only have to look at them cutting off Vincent Brown a few months ago or failing to fully report on other matters that are well covered by their competition.:mad:

These were 1,000 days, whatever you think about specific decisions, in which he showed amazing courage and strength, 1,000 days in which he inspired anyone in this country who has a cross to carry, 1,000 days in which he made us all wonder how we would choose to spend our time if we had the excuse and the curse of serious illness, 1,000 days in which he caused every man in this country to contemplate our own mortality, to wonder what our own priorities would be if we were fighting a potentially fatal disease.

1000 days before the end of that sentence

Which makes you think.

...unlike this poor incomplete sentence

Anybody want to count how many sentences & paragraphs he started with "And"?

Sticky_Fingers

And as much as we have all apparently made up our minds about Lenihan, now that he apparently threw it all away on a lunchtime radio interview, do you not feel a tiny bit uneasy about how it is all ending?

No I feel relieved that this pathetic excuse of a politician has been been shown the finger by his party who in turn will be shown the finger by the electorate when they skulk around looking for our votes after years of misrule.
The only feeling of unease I get is the slight sense of queasiness I feel listening to this quisling try and extol the virtues of the man who has laid ruination on this country.

These were 1,000 days, whatever you think about specific decisions, in which he showed amazing courage and strength, 1,000 days in which he inspired anyone in this country who has a cross to carry, 1,000 days in which he made us all wonder how we would choose to spend our time if we had the excuse and the curse of serious illness, 1,000 days in which he caused every man in this country to contemplate our own mortality, to wonder what our own priorities would be if we were fighting a potentially fatal disease.

I have more sympathy for the poor bastard who has to spend his final days on a trolley or on a public ward because there is no money left in the kitty to give him a private room all thanks to the misappropriation of this countries assets to bailout Lennies banking buddies.
The only persons mortality I am questioning at the moment is yours Mr O'Connor and the likes of you who are championing the very man who helped destroy our country.

It would take a certain kind of man to want to be Finance Minister of this country at any time. It would take an even rarer man to want to be Finance Minster of this country in the last three years.

Being barely competent at the job would have been a good start but this is FF we are talking about, sure wasn't he one of the boys.

There is possibly only one man who would want to be Finance Minster amid this crisis while also being critically ill.

Cry me a focking river, illness is no excuse for incompetence.

And we know that to start with Lenihan wasn't that man. He cribbed a bit at the beginning about being made the Finance Minister that was going to oversee the worst financial and economic crisis in the history of the State. And who could blame him? But then, he got up and started fighting. He fought his way into the brief and he fought his way through it -- admittedly with mixed results.

Oh he fought alright, against common sense and reason. He fought for his party, at the expense of the country, he fought for the banks, at the expense of the country, he fought for the developers, at the expense of the country. The only people he didn't fight for were the very people he was there to protect, the average man and woman on the street. If anything he fought against these people when they cried out for elections and a change in government. This is a man and a party that showed us that they are less democratic then the goddamn Shinners when they went to the courts to prevent by-elections from taking place.

Oh he's a fighter alright, pity he never seems to be fighting on the right side.

Lenihan still enjoys a 36 per cent satisfaction rating. Certainly it is down on the 53 per cent satisfaction he enjoyed this time last year, but it beats the hell out of Brian Cowen's 10 per cent and Mary Coughlan's 15 per cent. It is also miles ahead of Enda Kenny's 26 per cent satisfaction rating, and Enda Kenny is going to be the Taoiseach, apparently.

Brendan, you should know that you should never underestimate the stupidity of the general public, how else can you explain your journalistic and television career?
The only reason that he is popular is because he has cancer, people have sympathy for him and look past his epic failure as a finance minister due to this fact. You actively campaigning for the man and parading his illness around like some red badge of courage is quite frankly insulting.

Who are people voting for here, the worst finance minister this country has ever seen or his tumour?

muckwarrior

DB10 wrote: »

Maybe it happens in 3rd world countries, but it doesn't happen in Western "Developed" countries.

Italy and USA aren't western developed countries?

Badgermonkey

DB10 wrote: »

TROLL ALERT

I've listed the men in question in the OP.

You either never heard of them and "Tubbers" (:rolleyes:), or only watch shows like Home and Away.

Jesus, that's a very OTT response.

You listed some men and made an accusation of bias against them.
You omitted any example of same.

As governments change political hue (even here), it would be a very dangerous and ill considered game for RTE to play.

You may perceive bias, I do not. That's not trolling, it's a difference of opinion.

AnonoBoy

DB10 wrote: »

TROLL ALERT

I've listed the men in question in the OP.

You either never heard of them and "Tubbers" (:rolleyes:), or only watch shows like Home and Away.

Have you ever watched Pat Kenny on the Frontline?

I don't see any pro-FF bias off him at all.

The_Minister

Badgermonkey wrote: »

Indo sure,

RTE how so?

I've never voted FF and I have never detected a pronounced RTE bias.

Some people scream bias whenever they see something they don't like.

Pauleta

Why is it whenever rte say anything remotely positive about FF, the left wing loons are calling propaganda. Rte are suppose to report neutrally so they must say as many positive things as negative about the government and promote a balanced debate. Its the same with when Tubridy questions the opposition. The nutjob left only seem to remember the positive things said to complain. Word of advice, dont ever apply to be a judge.

Minstrel27

The_Minister wrote: »

Some people scream bias whenever they see something they don't like.

That's what it all boils down to.

Penny Dreadful

DB10 wrote: »

Certain section eh?

Basically the whole national television which WE PAY license fees for, barring of course the language channel rarely watched and TV3.

And the most bought newspaper in Ireland.

Maybe it happens in 3rd world countries, but it doesn't happen in Western "Developed" countries.

FOX news in the USA = Republican

DB10

Badgermonkey wrote: »

Jesus, that's a very OTT response.

You listed some men and made an accusation of bias against them.
You omitted any example of same.

As governments change political hue (even here), it would be a very dangerous and ill considered game for RTE to play.

You may perceive bias, I do not. That's not trolling, it's a difference of opinion.

Don't you know much about Tubridy's history?

Or any of his interviews?

The guy is a blatant FF cheerleader. And even is rumoured to be interested in running in a few years.

This is common knowledge, if you don't know this about Mr Smug, you are hiding from the truth.

And for the rest the FF apologists are just pathetic. The controversial opinion post to get thanks is getting quite sad for grown adults.

Liam Byrne

Pauleta wrote: »

Why is it whenever rte say anything remotely positive about FF, the left wing loons are calling propaganda. []bRte are suppose to report neutrally[/b] so they must say as many positive things as negative about the government and promote a balanced debate. Its the same with when Tubridy questions the opposition. The nutjob left only seem to remember the positive things said to complain. Word of advice, dont ever apply to be a judge.

Did you watch Tubridy's interview with Ahern ? Or Cowen ?

And did you compare them to his interview with Enda Kenny ?

Re the original article - wouldn't expect anything less from the Sindo. Absolute tripe when reporting on politics or crime (assuming that they're still separate issues).

DB10

The_Minister wrote: »

Some people scream bias whenever they see something they don't like.

Some people vote for and play up FF when they have destroyed the country.

Like some people in this thread...:rolleyes:

DB10

Pauleta wrote: »

Why is it whenever rte say anything remotely positive about FF, the left wing loons are calling propaganda. Rte are suppose to report neutrally so they must say as many positive things as negative about the government and promote a balanced debate. Its the same with when Tubridy questions the opposition. The nutjob left only seem to remember the positive things said to complain. Word of advice, dont ever apply to be a judge.

Why is the left wing nutjobs?

Afraid of change?

In a high payed PS position?

Into corrupt property dealings?

Out for what you can get?


Vote FF/FG

AnonoBoy

Have you ever watched Pat Kenny on the Frontline DB10?

Do you honestly think he has a pro-FF bias?

Pherekydes

DB10 wrote: »

TROLL ALERT

I've listed the men in question in the OP.

You either never heard of them and "Tubbers" (:rolleyes:), or only watch shows like Home and Away.

Are they the people you listen to for political comment and analysis? I don't, so I don't perceive any RTE channel-wide bias. Maybe that's what the poster you accused of being a troll meant.

Liam Byrne

P.S. Anyone got a can of "Mace" for use on that O'Connor idiot ?

AnonoBoy

Liam Byrne wrote: »

P.S. Anyone got a can of "Mace" for use on that O'Connor idiot ?

PM sent.

The_Minister

DB10 wrote: »

Some people vote for and play up FF when they have destroyed the country.

Like some people in this thread...:rolleyes:

Fianna Fail have never gotten a first preference from me.
My No.1 is going to an independant, then I'm not sure (I can't stand the FG representative in my area).

mikom

Don't buy the Indo, Don't pay the TV tax.
Job done.

DB10

The_Minister wrote: »

Fianna Fail have never gotten a first preference from me.
My No.1 is going to an independant, then I'm not sure (I can't stand the FG representative in my area).

Chummy with Lowry and Healy-Rae are we....:rolleyes:

Pauleta

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Did you watch Tubridy's interview with Ahern ? Or Cowen ?

And did you compare them to his interview with Enda Kenny ?

Re the original article - wouldn't expect anything less from the Sindo. Absolute tripe when reporting on politics or crime (assuming that they're still separate issues).

You looked at those interviews just to find things to nit pick. rte cant just bay to public demand and lay FF out, it would be unethical.I dont think you understand impartiality

DB10

mikom wrote: »

Don't buy the Indo, Don't pay the TV tax.
Job done.

We have pay to watch other channels or Sky.

I'm not a criminal *cough* ff/fg

Sticky_Fingers

Pauleta wrote: »

Its the same with when Tubridy questions the opposition. The nutjob left only seem to remember the positive things said to complain. Word of advice, dont ever apply to be a judge.

Tubbers has every right to question the opposition but I would also expect him to ask the government the tough questions as well, from what I have seen of him he seems to go a little easy on them though. IMO RTE are a little too deferential to politicians on all sides, they let them off far too easily and accept longwinded indecipherable fluff as valid answers to questions asked. This is unacceptable, they should press all politicians to give a proper account of themselves and their actions/policies and rip them apart at the first whiff of politicospeak.

Minstrel27

DB10 wrote: »

And for the rest the FF apologists are just pathetic. The controversial opinion post to get thanks is getting quite sad for grown adults.

So anyone that doesn't see bias to any side is a FF apologist? lol at you and your hysteria.

Badgermonkey

DB10 wrote: »

Don't you know much about Tubridy's history?

Or any of his interviews?

The guy is a blatant FF cheerleader. And even is rumoured to be interested in running in a few years.

This is common knowledge, if you don't know this about Mr Smug, you are hiding from the truth.

And for the rest the FF apologists are just pathetic. The controversial opinion post to get thanks is getting quite sad for grown adults.

You don't seem the most 'balanced' yourself

I've never voted FF, as I said in my 1st post.

DB10

Minstrel27 wrote: »

So anyone that doesn't see bias to any side is a FF apologist? lol at you and your hysteria.

Location: Alf Stewarts Rape Dungeon

Yep I will really take in your opinions on highly important political issues, and even thanks whorey.

Micky Dolenz

DB10 wrote: »

TROLL ALERT

I've listed the men in question in the OP.

You either never heard of them and "Tubbers" (:rolleyes:), or only watch shows like Home and Away.

Got a problem with a poster/post. Report it.

DB10

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Have you ever watched Pat Kenny on the Frontline DB10?

Do you honestly think he has a pro-FF bias?

Yes, do you honestly think he doesn't

A few million quid in the bank does wonders for his political outlook

The_Minister

DB10 wrote: »

Chummy with Lowry and Healy-Rae are we....:rolleyes:

Shane Ross actually.

The_Minister

DB10 wrote: »

Yes, do you honestly think he doesn't

A few million quid in the bank does wonders for his political outlook

If Kenny is anything he is FG, but I've always found him willing to challenge any politician who tries too much bluster on his show.

Kasabian

OP, I have to take you to task on one point of your accusation of bias from RTE.
Sean O'Rourke is imo the best political commentator broadcaster of the lot he regularly takes FF/Greens to task. Try watching an episode of "The Week in Politics" and you will see this.

AnonoBoy

DB10 wrote: »

Location: Alf Stewarts Rape Dungeon

Yep I will really take in your opinions on highly important political issues, and even thanks whorey.

DB10 wrote: »

Yes, do you honestly think he doesn't

A few million quid in the bank does wonders for his political outlook

Well you've won me over with your well thought out points and your firm grasp of the English language.

squod

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Have you ever watched Pat Kenny on the Frontline?

I don't see any pro-FF bias off him at all.

In fairness, if he isn't getting the truth from them ( and he isn't) then he's just providing them with a soap box to air their lies.

DB10

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Well you've won me over with your well thought out points and your firm grasp of the English language.

If you need someone to "win you over" from FF cheering, then you aren't worth the time reading your posts.

Traitor to the country.