Getting to Super-toned - Help!!!

KKCat09

Hi All,

I wondered if anyone can help me. I am an avid gym user (female). I love weights and therefore am quite strong and already have good muscle tone.However I have never really been able to achieve that super toned and cut look that I really want. I have been away from the gym for a while as I ran a marathon and the training took me way out of my usual gym routine but now that I am back at it my goal is to get that fitness model body (but not female body-builder body).

To do that I need to shed some body fat (I dont have alot of body fat but I feel there is an unnecessary layer covering the muscle I already have). I also need to gain muscle tone but thats such a fine line for women, I really want to stay looking like a woman as but I like that strong muscled, toned and cut look but still slim.

Can anyone recommend what kind of supplements to go for? I'm confused. Thought a pre-workout such as no-xplode, a protein after and maybe some thermogenic fat burners? But I havnt a clue if this is the right thing, if I will end up putting on too much weight, I still want to look slim. And also can anyone recommend brands too-I dont want to spend a fortune.

I workout first thing in the morning if that helps: 25mins cardio, followed by 1hr weights and abs.

Long winded I know but any direction would be appreciated.

petroltimer

can depend a lot on your diet, to get a toned look you have to be strict, do you like sugar or alcohol?

Burkatron

petroltimer wrote: »

can depend a lot on your diet, to get a toned look you have to be strict, do you like sugar or alcohol?

Diet & food are your best supplements (to start with), you wont put on huge amounts of muscle mass unless you're of the Caster Semenya type "female" as you don't have the required natural testosterone levels to do so.
Also how long where you away from the gym focusing on running?
Did you completely stay away from weights? Why (the why is just out of interest)?

Post up what you'd eat in an average day & see if anything can be changed/tweaked there before you start on supplements. Also throw up what you do in the gym for the same reasons.

KKCat09

Thanks for getting back to me guys.

I dont drink alcohol but I do have a sweet tooth if I'm being completely honest. I am trying with that though and try to keep away from bad sugars as much as possible. I tend to pick at fruit if I'm peckish but I know that is quite sugary too.

In terms of the running to put in the mileage required for the marathon I just couldnt possibly stay giving time to doing weights. Instead I was running 4 days a week and going a swim or pilates on the interval days to keep my core and muscles strong.

So for diet:
I dont eat before the gym
Post gym my breakfast is a good sized bowl of porridge made on water
Eggs and wholemeal bread for lunch
Chicken and veg based meal for evening dinner (dont use potato or pasta now that I'm not running)
In between I will have some fruit or yogurt if I am hungry.
I will usually have about 3 squares of dark chocolate as my treat in the evening.

Gym:
Varies a bit but usually begin with 25-30 mins cardio and I mix it up between elliptical, treadmill and rower.
Then I do weights: Barbell squats, barbell lunges, deadlifts (a mix of two of these) or some days ill use the machines instead and do leg press and leg curls.
Upper body: Pull ups, pull overs, rows and bicep curls (On the back and bicep day). Then on the alternate day chest press (or variation), shoulder press (or variation).

I do this 3 or 4 days a week with 1 or 2 days of just pilates. Then I take 2 days off rest for weekend.

Just to note that lately I have been changing and doing an hour of full body circuit training instead maybe one or two days in the week.

Not sure if its any help but im 5ft 7 and 120lb so I dont think im going too far wrong on diet. I am in good shape but theres a difference between in shape and the dream body.

Burkatron

KKCat09 wrote: »

but theres a difference between in shape and the dream body.

Air brushing,make up,water cutting & camera tricks?

So for diet:
I dont eat before the gym - why not? Whats the last thing you eat at night? Your body will be starving & then you push it through a work out? 1st thing its gonna do with any calories is store fat to stock up for the next time you starve your body. Eat something before you work out, anything. If it's a short period of time (not ideal) have a couple of pieces of fruit, just something to fuel your body. If you can give yourself a couple of hours (I'm guessing you cant as you go to the gym 1st thing) have a normal meal

Post gym my breakfast is a good sized bowl of porridge made on water -No protein & not enough food in general let alone to start repairing your muscles after your work out. You'd be better off eating what you have for lunch here

Eggs and wholemeal bread for lunch - Again not enough food for your body to sustain itself. If your not using calorie from food sources & you don't have excess fat, your body starts eating into lean body tissue (muscles)

Chicken and veg based meal for evening dinner (dont use potato or pasta now that I'm not running) - How much chicken & veg? is this the last thing you eat in the day? What time?

In between I will have some fruit or yogurt if I am hungry.
I will usually have about 3 squares of dark chocolate as my treat in the evening.

Right so, just by looking at what you've written I can see you're calorie deficient. If you want muscle/tone you need to eat to sustain it. I'm not gonna work out your current calories as I don't have the time & I'm guessing you already have this worked out?

Going by the the Issa guidelines (which is what I've studied) calculator Here set at a female,120lbs, moderate activity level (not saying you are, just an example), recreational excerciser, the results look like:

Your bodyweight is 54 kilograms.

Step 1 - BMR Based On Weight

For Women: 0.9 x 54 Kg x 24 = 1176

Step 2 - BMR With Bodyfat Percentage Calculation

Taking your bodyfat percentage into account, your adjusted BMR is 1176 calories per day. This is equal to 49 calories per hour.

Step 3 - Total Daily Calories Burned

Adding in your activity level, we times your BMR by 1.65. This means that your approximate total calories burned each day is 1940.

Step 4 - Macronutrient Breakdown In YOUR Diet

Now that we know how many total calories need to be consumed each day, where do the calories come from? Based on your BMR, Activity Level and Athletic Category you need:

Protein Grams: 90 Grams Per Day.
Protein Calories: 360 Protein Calories Per Day.

Fat Grams: 32 Grams Per Day.
Fat Calories: 291 Protein Calories Per Day.

Carbohydrate Grams: 322 Grams Per Day.
Carbohydrate Calories: 1289 Carb Calories Per Day.

If you following something close to that you'll get better results then what you're seeing currently without changing your gym routine. These are just guidelines. You can manipulate them to suit your needs. I.e If you want to put on weight you eat more then your total calories burned (+500 cals a day for 1lb a week) if you want to lose weight you eat less then your total calories burned (-500 cals a day for 1lb a week, no I'm not saying you should lose weight)

You need to space these out through the day. So say eat 6 times a day.
Example of what you could do:
6 am - Pre gym breakfast - If not have a snack
8 am - PWO Meal/snack, depending on what you did at 6 am
10:30 am - Snack - Fruit or yogurt or Nuts
1pm - Lunch
3:30pm Snack - Fruit or yogurt or Nuts
6pm - Dinner
9pm - Snack - protein based to feed your body through the night

IMO Fit your calories around something like that & you'll get closer to what you want.

Edit: Lay off the likes of White Bread, white pasta, Spuds, white Rice,Beer - If you want to replace them like for like go for the brown/wholegrain options or just replace completely with extra fruit & veg portions. Again, this is what works for me & people I work/I've worked with.

gymfreak

A bit off topic...BUT...would you consider starting a fitness log in the logs section of the forum.

Would be nice to see a few more girls post:)

KKCat09

@ Burketron: Thanks so much, just about your edit, I dont eat potatoes, pasta, white rice etc. No fizzy drinks. When I go for anything in the carb department its always the brown alternative. But thanks so much for your detailed. However the reason I was asking about supplements is that I cant possibly eat that much with work etc. I have a hectic job so its just not possible to be that structured, even with meticulous planning I have been unable to achieve that.
I find it really difficult to eat before the gym, I have tried a few different combinations of food but none have 'agreed' with me:o, which i wondered about a pre-workout supplement instead. And again after the gym I sometimes cant get to breakfast for an hour after I finish and I dont want to end up eating into my muscle for energy. So I know my calories are low but its all I can manage with the dual constraints of both fitting things in around work and trying to keep my diet as clean as possible. I guess thats why I want to consider the supplements. I have used some before when training for a specific event eg. weightlifting comp or charity fitness challenge etc but never for aesthetics!!!

As for the airbrushing-wouldnt it be great lol

@GymFreak: Definitely interested but since I'm a bit of a newbie on this I have to ask what would be involved in a log?

rocky

KKCat09 wrote: »

@ Burketron: Thanks so much, just about your edit, I dont eat potatoes, pasta, white rice etc. No fizzy drinks. When I go for anything in the carb department its always the brown alternative. But thanks so much for your detailed. However the reason I was asking about supplements is that I cant possibly eat that much with work etc. I have a hectic job so its just not possible to be that structured, even with meticulous planning I have been unable to achieve that.
I find it really difficult to eat before the gym, I have tried a few different combinations of food but none have 'agreed' with me:o, which i wondered about a pre-workout supplement instead. And again after the gym I sometimes cant get to breakfast for an hour after I finish and I dont want to end up eating into my muscle for energy. So I know my calories are low but its all I can manage with the dual constraints of both fitting things in around work and trying to keep my diet as clean as possible. I guess thats why I want to consider the supplements. I have used some before when training for a specific event eg. weightlifting comp or charity fitness challenge etc but never for aesthetics!!!

Good news then, look into Intermittent Fasting at www.leangains.com, I think you can use some of their principles:

- in losing fat or gaining muscle, most important nutrition issue is total calories per day
- you don't need 5-6+ small meals a day, eat however many you want
- working out fasted has its benefits, you may want to look into supplementing BCAA (EAA), 10g before workout, and 10g every 2h until your first meal. If you don't care about the fasted part, BCAAs can normally be found in whey, so have a shake with 30g whey in water pre-workout.

Don't worry, if your nutrition (total calories and protein intake) is adequate, you won't get to catabolizing muscle, mostly fat will be used, that's why it's there

Chet Zar

First of all you won't get the cover model look doing marathons, so now that you're back to real fitness you'll be back on track!

It does look like you're eating too little. I don't buy into the whole 'no time to eat' thing though - I'm sure you're busy out but you've got the same 24 hours as anyone else. Definitely important to eat post-gym, never mind before it. Could you not grab a banana/apple, a bag of nuts, small tub of natural peanut butter etc?

You mention a sweet tooth - might be good to lay out exactly how much sweet stuff you eat during the week, could be revealing. Essentially, the more disciplined you are, the hotter the body

gymfreak

KKCat09 wrote: »

@GymFreak: Definitely interested but since I'm a bit of a newbie on this I have to ask what would be involved in a log?

The log is your own...you do what you want with it, write want you want but it's just open for others to read.

I log my sessions in mine daily, for me. So I can remember what I've done, and also to look back over and the progress I've made.

There's soooo many mens' logs in the forum and only a small, small handful of womens. Naturally I'm more interested in what the ladies are doing training-wise...so go on...start a log!!:)

KKCat09

Chet Zar wrote: »

First of all you won't get the cover model look doing marathons, so now that you're back to real fitness you'll be back on track!

It does look like you're eating too little. I don't buy into the whole 'no time to eat' thing though - I'm sure you're busy out but you've got the same 24 hours as anyone else. Definitely important to eat post-gym, never mind before it. Could you not grab a banana/apple, a bag of nuts, small tub of natural peanut butter etc?

Lol im conflicted as to which is real fitness. When I was running I couldnt bear the thought of the gym but now im slowly but surely getting very addicted again.
Thanks for your advice but I wasnt saying I couldnt manage to snack throughout the day but I cant be very disciplined in my planning. Its one thing keeping a few snacks handy, its another to be as structured as burkatron suggests. Again thats why I am asking about the supplements as that might be an easier way of getting all the calories and protein etc that I need without the bad fats and sugars that tend to creep into when the hectic kicks into the day.
Truth be told I'm great at planning cos with my lifestyle and job I need to be military about it, so I bring a packed lunch, snacks etc but if I have it its usually all eaten in the morning - once I pop I cant stop

KKCat09

gymfreak wrote: »

Naturally I'm more interested in what the ladies are doing training-wise...so go on...start a log!!:)

Ok I think I'll do that, though I dont know if I'm doing enough for anyone to care lol.

I did check out your log just to see what it was all about, my god you are a gym freak arent you. Fair play to you, you do some serious workouts. Do you have a personal trainer or do you come up with your own workouts?

gymfreak

KKCat09 wrote: »

Ok I think I'll do that, though I dont know if I'm doing enough for anyone to care lol.

I did check out your log just to see what it was all about, my god you are a gym freak arent you. Fair play to you, you do some serious workouts. Do you have a personal trainer or do you come up with your own workouts?

Thanks!
You'd be amazed at the amount of people that do browse them.. curiousity and all that! Nope don't have a PT, I just go to a great gym with excellent coaches. I joined Informed Performance Gym in Glasnevin in October and haven't looked back since:D

boomtown84

rocky wrote: »

Good news then, look into Intermittent Fasting at www.leangains.com, I think you can use some of their principles:

- in losing fat or gaining muscle, most important nutrition issue is total calories per day
- you don't need 5-6+ small meals a day, eat however many you want
- working out fasted has its benefits, you may want to look into supplementing BCAA (EAA), 10g before workout, and 10g every 2h until your first meal. If you don't care about the fasted part, BCAAs can normally be found in whey, so have a shake with 30g whey in water pre-workout.

Don't worry, if your nutrition (total calories and protein intake) is adequate, you won't get to catabolizing muscle, mostly fat will be used, that's why it's there

This post has some good advice.I can't comment on the IF as i haven't looked into it in any depth.
Just get your daily macro's in order and you'll lose the fat.you don't need 5/6 meals a day.if you can only get three meals in it makes no difference.
I would advise getting something down in the morning too...if you don't have time to eat in the house a shake on the way to the gym would be better than not eating.you'll have more energy for your workout too.
Also if you're getting in enough protein for the day(i'd reccommend approx 120grams) you won't need to supplement with BCAA.plenty of it in your food&whey.
As far as a pre workout supp goes...i've tried a few but don't use them anymore.a tastey cuppa coffee does the job for me these days.NOTE: these supps won't have a huge effect on your overall success.they can give you more energy for more intense workouts so if this is what you think you need then by all means go for it.....but they're by no means crucial.
Anyway best of luck getting that dream body of yours and don't forget....we all love pics!:p

Chet Zar

KKCat09 wrote: »

Lol im conflicted as to which is real fitness. When I was running I couldnt bear the thought of the gym but now im slowly but surely getting very addicted again.
Thanks for your advice but I wasnt saying I couldnt manage to snack throughout the day but I cant be very disciplined in my planning. Its one thing keeping a few snacks handy, its another to be as structured as burkatron suggests. Again thats why I am asking about the supplements as that might be an easier way of getting all the calories and protein etc that I need without the bad fats and sugars that tend to creep into when the hectic kicks into the day.
Truth be told I'm great at planning cos with my lifestyle and job I need to be military about it, so I bring a packed lunch, snacks etc but if I have it its usually all eaten in the morning - once I pop I cant stop

Ha defo weights, high-intensity cardio/metcon stuff and the gym as opposed to just cardio pounding the pavements! Addictive for sure. My new gym has kettlebells and I have been in my element since I kicked off my workouts again this month!

Ah cool, I think Burkatron's advice while good is over-complicating things - be disciplined, keep the sweet stuff for an odd treat at the weekend and train hard and intensely with weights/bodyweight = fit bod.

KKCat09

Thanks Boomtown24, some very helpful advice there, likewise @ Rocky. Im glad you mentioned the pre-workout because I feel I am running on empty in the morning and that is affecting the performance but eating solids seem to upset my stomach. I tried Nitrobolon before but the side effects later in the day were a bit much. So I might try bringing my whey with me, having some before I workout and then some after. And having three bigger meals a day for me with some moderate snacking works much better than having to organise 6 meals-harder work than the gym

Lol if people are looking for pics I may get some facial supplements too

KKCat09

Chet Zar wrote: »

My new gym has kettlebells and I have been in my element since I kicked off my workouts again this month!
keep the sweet stuff for an odd treat at the weekend and train hard and intensely with weights/bodyweight = fit bod.

Have kettlebells in my gym too but the guy who did all the instructing left for Oz a few months back and its been such a loss. They are unreal, thinking of investing in one or two for at home too. I should be doing more with them but without the form supervision and motivation from someone who really knows what they're doing I cant seem to keep at them. How are you finding them?

The sweet tooth is the downfall but everyone keeps saying I need to get more calories :P

Chet Zar

KKCat09 wrote: »

Have kettlebells in my gym too but the guy who did all the instructing left for Oz a few months back and its been such a loss. They are unreal, thinking of investing in one or two for at home too. I should be doing more with them but without the form supervision and motivation from someone who really knows what they're doing I cant seem to keep at them. How are you finding them?

The sweet tooth is the downfall but everyone keeps saying I need to get more calories :P

Yeah that's the thing with the sweet stuff - it actually doesn't just put weight on, which is bad enough - it also stops you burning fat to an extent as well. One suggestion I'd have for you is to just keep it to one day at the weekend - you will actually appreciate it more then too! Try it for a few weeks and see! Oh and obviously don't buy the stuff in the first place!

Yeah they are amazing - I'm actually really only getting into them. Know what ya mean - I am actually just doing KB swings at the minute until I get someone to teach me the more advanced stuff. The swings are class though - usually do 5 sets of 15 with sets of push-ups between the KB sets - and gets the heart rate up nice and high..! You can defo look at doing those yourself as they are a reasonably simple movement - maybe check good vids online or find a good instructor near you.

Dotcomdolly

Informative interview with a top fitness model
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Dadster

Might be worth trying a program of increasing reps with loads starting at 60% 1RM.
I have used a program like this with a client who was already quite muscular but wanted to cut away as much subcutaneous fat as possible to become "super toned" and it was very succesful. She lost 5 lbs from her original 128 lb weight but more importantly she improved her body shape.
I can supply you more detail if you think it might be of interest.

KKCat09

Dadster wrote: »

Might be worth trying a program of increasing reps with loads starting at 60% 1RM.
I have used a program like this with a client who was already quite muscular but wanted to cut away as much subcutaneous fat as possible
I can supply you more detail if you think it might be of interest.

That would be excellent Dadster, thank you very much. I am just doing my own thing at the moment and any guidance would be a help in that respect. I had an excellent trainer until about a year ago but since she left my gym and moved to Dublin they havnt replaced her with anyone who really knows their stuff. I am at a bit of a loss to know what works and what doesnt when it comes to weights and getting the body fat down.

Dadster

No problem. I`ll pm you later with a detailed program.

Lantus

getting a ripped look where you can see muscle definition requires a lower body fat %. Your already doing a lot of the right things in terms of using resistance training (and no you wont ever get BIG unless you have a genetic predisposition or take lots and lots of steroids and male hormones like the female body builders on Louise Theroux.) and doing cardio.

The reality is that you need a very strict nutrition routine in terms of being able to account for everything you eat. calorie cycling, carb cycling, create a slight deficiet and allow about 0.5% to 1% a month of BF% reduction all going well. your resistance training will be crucially important throught to retain your muscle mass. Otherwise you become thin and flabby.

It takes consistency and discipline but it is all doable and the trick is to create a routine and stick yo it. Make it important in your life and plan ahead for all meals and snacks.