HTPC build help?

zuroph

Tried this in the HTPC forum, but no answers, so hoping someone here might help..

Ok, so I've decided i want to go this route and amalgamate all my media in my livingroom into one catch all system. Been running XBMC off my laptop for now, and love it. REad on here that I can link it into MCE and use that for live tv until XBMC launches its PVR setup.

I was going to go the Acer Revo route, but thinking by the time I add my external hardrives, remote reciever, etc that the USB slots would be filling up a bit much, and it might be too much to ask of it.

So, with no previous experience, or knowledge of how to build a PC, I think I'm going to have to go the homebuild route??

I'm on a budget, and want to try keep the build as cheap as possible, while leaving me room to upgrade in future. few key features required though

*Ability to recieve HD DTT and Freesat from an existing external aerial, and an existing SKY dish with octo LNB. I figure that Blackgold BGT3595 is what I'll need for this?
*Run XBMC and MCE for live TV
*I don't require any optical drive, for the rare occasion I need to watch something of disc I can still use lappy, or PS3
*I'd prefer intel parts specced for board etc as I think I might be able to get a preferential price.

I have an old Dell PC upstairs not being used, but I presume I wouldnt be able to strip any parts from that, nor from a vaio laptop that I abandoned last year.

If I knew what parts to get, and where to get from, so that everything was compatible, I'd be able to get help with the actual assembly from a friend if needed, so its the buying the right parts on a budget that I really need help with. I've been reading loads and loads and trying to learn what each part does, but im terrified of ordering the totally wrong part for my needs.

So can someone help me please? Thanks for all the info on the forum so far, its been a huge help in getting me started.

zuroph

No1?

went to maplin today in the hope of getting a bit of free advice from back counter but he just tried to sell me the first motherboard he found with a hdmi on it.

superneat

What kind of budget do you have? Is it a pure media system you want or would you like to multi-task and or play games as well?

You could build an itx system with all the bells and whistles you need for high def playback and dvr abilities, including wireless/bluetooth/infrared remote conectivity, that would have a small footprint, for between 200-300.

A more advanced and upgrade friendly system, in an atx/matx form factor, with a proper dual or tri core processor with/without a dedicated gpu would run for 300-400 or more....depending on preference and...budget :eek:

Obviously if you are using more than one pci express card ie gpu/sound card/tv capture card, than itx is out the window.

zuroph

Well the cheaper the better really, budget is tight for now. I dont intend to use for anything other than media. I hope to use the blackgold card, so that requires one slot, after that, I'm not sure what i'd need? at the moment I'm using a cheap oneforall remote that i've configured through eventghost.

ideally; quite, small footprint but I have space if this isnt possible, and wireless connectivity. After that upgradeable in future, but I have all my media on external hardrives for now anyway, so in no hurry for storage space ATM.

superneat

If one pci slot will do this is what you could go for;

Mobo
http://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/4910120/art/asus/at3iont-i-deluxe-intel-at.html

It's an itx, it has everything you may need, 90w laptop style power brick, wireless, bluetooth, ir remote, hdmi, vga, spdif out, 4 usb, 4 sata, dual core atom, nvidia ion. Doubt you would need more conectivity than that for a media only pc.

Couple that with 2GB of ram
http://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/8599492/art/a-data/2-gb-ddr3-1333-pc3-10600.html

The ram speed will need to be lowered to the mobo spec of pc3 8500 in the bios (if it doesn't do it automatically).

Stick those in any case you wish that would take itx (or mod your old dell).

Cheap
http://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/5651482/art/foxconn/rs224-mini-itx-pc-tower-c.html
Higher end
http://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/3703154/art/maxinpower/b299cal000-desktop-pc-tow.html

Including p+p the cheapest setup comes in at 240. The atom is crap for compute intensive tasks but as you wouldn't be doing any, the Ion is more than competant to play sd and hd media.
:cool:

---

If you'd like something more powerfull and don't mind spending more and going with amd (don't know why anyone would);

MOBO
Onboard ATI Radeon HD 4250

2GB Ram

3.1GHz Dual Core

Case

Antec 380W EarthWatts 80plus

Wireless-N 300 PCI Adapter

Comes to around £220 including p&p

zuroph

so can i install software to external hardrives or do I need to add at least some hardrive to that spec? thatnks very much for this, the first spec looks great. Struggling to think what else I might need another PCI slot for. with those cases, is there a special type of card I need to go for to fit there?

marco_polo

If you go with mATX instead of mITX you also have a few different options when it comes to the case look, with slimeline or cube possibilities (Not reccomending these cases specifically just using them as an example, the cube is especially ugly IMO ).

Obviously if you go with something like a small Case/PSU combination there is limited scope for turning it into a high end gaming rig down the line , but it definately a more upgradable path than the mITX route down the line. You can also get cube mATX cases w/o PSUs as well if you prefer as they fit a standard PSU.

Only a slimline mAtx case or mITX case would require low profile PCI/PCIe cards, a cube or tower can take full size cards no problem.

zuroph

have absoultely no interest in turning it into a gaming rig down the line, The only think I fear is wanting to add an extra card for some reason. Have picked out almost identical spec to the first one suggested on hardwareversand and its not priced too badly, but I still need to add a hardrive and maybe an optical drive. been looking at cases too, the second case (fhttp://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/3703154/art/maxinpower/b299cal000-desktop-pc-tow.html) that superneat suggested is actually one of the nicer ones I've come across. Can someone explain to me the PSU? theres a 250w included with that, and the ITX says it comes with a 90w external power brick. does that mean I'd be plugging the thing in twice, or not using the 250w PSU? the blackgold card requires a 4pin floppy power connection to power the LNB.

superneat

If you go with the (sexy) maxinpower case, the psu supplied has a slim 24-pin, a 4 pin CPU, Floppy, two SATA and two Molex connectors.

So you could use that and not the other psu, giving you more room for expansion.

You would need at least one storage media with an OS installed (or an optical drive/usb running xbmc live) which could be hooked up through the cases' eSATA port (something that the ad doesn't say but if you zoom in on the picture you can see it).
:cool:

zuroph

sorry to be a noob, I can ditch the 90w DC power brick, and just use the psu that comes with the case?

superneat

Yup

zuroph

cool, is it easy to connect then? Do I just ignore the power out slot on the back of the motherboard? is there any issue with the DC power, does the PSU give off DC as standard?

marco_polo

zuroph wrote: »

cool, is it easy to connect then? Do I just ignore the power out slot on the back of the motherboard? is there any issue with the DC power, does the PSU give off DC as standard?

You would not be able to connect that board to an ATX power supply as it lack the required 20/24 pin ATX connectors. It is designed only to be used with its external power brick.

Unfortunately there is no mITX standard defined for power supplies so there is an extra layer of care need in matching parts together for this kind of build. Some(the majority?) of mITX boards are designed to use a internal ATX PSU and others use an external power brick.

zuroph

hmm, so the board is not compatible with the blackgold card then? I see a "Sata pwr" slot, is that for an optical drive? what is the white slot on the right for?

zuroph

http://www.compare.ie/77-1489686-startech.com-lp4-to-sata-power-cable-adapter-with-floppy-power-power-adapter.htm

I could use this?

marco_polo

zuroph wrote: »

hmm, so the board is not compatible with the blackgold card then? I see a "Sata pwr" slot, is that for an optical drive? what is the white slot on the right for?

See the brown rectangle with a double rows of white dots (12X2) at the bottom of the picture is where the 12V ATX connector should be.

Is this the same card, because that is a PCIe X1 card not a PCI one so it also wouldn't work with the ASUS board.

zuroph

http://shop.blackgold.tv/epages/BT3159.sf/en_AU/?ObjectPath=/Shops/BT3159/Products/BGT3595

marco_polo

zuroph wrote: »

http://www.compare.ie/77-1489686-startech.com-lp4-to-sata-power-cable-adapter-with-floppy-power-power-adapter.htm

I could use this?

That is just for powering multiple hard drives from a single molex connector (labeled sata_pwr) on your previous connector.

This is an ATX 24 pin connector which the ASUS lacks, it is used to supply power to the motherboard from an internal PSU.

zuroph

hmm, can you recommend a different board then? something that the card will fit? maybe intel?

zuroph

marco_polo wrote: »

That is just for powering multiple hard drives from a single molex connector (labeled sata_pwr) on your previous connector.

This is an ATX 24 pin connector which the ASUS lacks, it is used to supply power to the motherboard from an internal PSU.

yes, but since the card would need a floppy power, and the optical would need its power, it could have been connected to that, and not bothered with PSU at all. that is, IF the pcie slot was a x1 instead of x16 I'm so confused!

marco_polo

zuroph wrote: »

yes, but since the card would need a floppy power, and the optical would need its power, it could have been connected to that, and not bothered with PSU at all. that is, IF the pcie slot was a x1 instead of x16 I'm so confused!

You could actually put a PCI Express X1 card into a PCIe X16 slot, however the ASUS mITX doesn't have either of these, only a single PCI slot (which is completely incompatible with your card).

I think this picture probably shows the difference it better that I can explain it. (Notice how the PCIe X 1 is basically a truncated 16X slot, but PCI is fundamentally different altogether.)

marco_polo

zuroph wrote: »

hmm, can you recommend a different board then? something that the card will fit? maybe intel?

I'll have a dig around tommorrow unless somebody else get there first in the meantime, I am don't think mITX boards tend to come with PCIe slots as a general rule, so you might need to move one size bracket to look at mATX boards.

Just one more thing do you know what kind of extra power pin the Blackgold card needs?

zuroph

I'm fairly sure It DOES say on that asus that its a pcie x16, alongside it there in the pic I attached? so the card WOULD work with it? and I could get one of those adaptor lead to power it?

edit: its a 4 pin floppy power lead needed on the blackgold card.

zuroph

EDIT : no need for another big pic!! sorry
Found the manual.
http://resources.mini-box.com/online/MBD-I-ASUS-AT3IONT-I/MBD-I-ASUS-AT3IONT-I-manual.pdf


If I found a similar specced intel board I might be able to get it cheaper through a colleague

marco_polo

zuroph wrote: »

EDIT : no need for another big pic!! sorry
Found the manual.
http://resources.mini-box.com/online/MBD-I-ASUS-AT3IONT-I/MBD-I-ASUS-AT3IONT-I-manual.pdf


If I found a similar specced intel board I might be able to get it cheaper through a colleague

Sincere apologies, I have no idea why I got PCI into my head , it even clearly states PCIeX16 on the pixmania website (And is crystal clear from the giant picture too if I had noticed ).

zuroph

so this is pretty much settled then, but if anyone wants to recommend an intel board of similar spec, then I might be swayed!


thanks for all your help lads, I've learned a lot today!

marco_polo

zuroph wrote: »

so this is pretty much settled then, but if anyone wants to recommend an intel board of similar spec, then I might be swayed!


thanks for all your help lads, I've learned a lot today!

Just reading back the thread, what I meant to point out (but didn't put across very well) earlier was that that 250W PSU on one of the cases you were looking at could not power the motherboard, I didn't mean that the motherboard couldn't power the TV card.

Good luck with the build anyway, hoping to do somthing like this myself in the not too diistant future.

zuroph

just one more, should I be needing a fan in the case, and where am I gonna pull power from for that now?! :eek:

zuroph

http://www.adverts.ie/hardware/pinnacle-7010ix-2xdvb-s-2xdvb-t-tuner/284476

spotted this on adverts, would this fit the http://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/3703154/art/maxinpower/b299cal000-desktop-pc-tow.html case, or is it too tall?

superneat

The pinnacle on ads looks like a full height pci card so that would not fit, that case needs half height (or low profile) cards like the BGT3595.

The maxinpower case comes with 1x80mm case fan and has room for 2 more x80mm fans.

If an atom setup is what you go for, an extra fan would not be needed. More fans = more noise and the atom won't generate much heat. The same processor can be found in many netbooks so if you think of that form factor, a comparitively large case like the maxinpower wouldn't need much cooling.

zuroph wrote:

but if anyone wants to recommend an intel board of similar spec, then I might be swayed!

I find Intel motherboards to be of good quality but when it comes to bios options (asus) and extra connectivity (gigabyte) other manufacturers are better value.

marco_polo

zuroph wrote: »

http://www.adverts.ie/hardware/pinnacle-7010ix-2xdvb-s-2xdvb-t-tuner/284476

spotted this on adverts, would this fit the http://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/3703154/art/maxinpower/b299cal000-desktop-pc-tow.html case, or is it too tall?

Too tall unfortunately, a standard full height PCIe card like the Pinnicle is 106mm tall however the total height of the case is only 98mm.

superneat

Just to put a spanner in the works.....i don't want to make your decision any harder but if i was in your shoes i'd spend a little more and get this zotac motherboard http://www.ebuyer.com/product/236956.
It has a proper culv cpu, Celeron SU2300 Dual Core 1.2GHz, wifi, pci x 16, VGA DVI HDMI Out 6 Channel Audio and an nvidia ion.

IrishMetalhead

hi
i think you should go with a matx or atx rather than a itx for expasnsion and cost reasons i can design you one out right now if you want but how much of a budget are we talking about here and does the cpu have to be intel? cause amd are usually the best way to go when your on a budget because of there price to perfomance ratio

zuroph

see the reason Im pushing intel is I think I may be able to get a special price on intel components from someone I know. However I'm open to shopping around. what expansion are you allowing for? I can't really see what more I'd like to add to it..


regards price the cheaper the better, i'm on a ridic tight budget.

zuroph

so where will the case fan draw power from if I went with the original board with the integrated DC power? could i split off from teh sata power slot?

zuroph

that maxinpower case is micro ATX, not itx..

marco_polo

zuroph wrote: »

that maxinpower case is micro ATX, not itx..

You can fit an mITX board in a mATX case as the screw mounts are compatible, but as I was saying the integrated PSU will be no good to you if you go with the board with the integrated DC power adapter.

Ideally you would want a mITX case with no PSU.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-ITX
The four mounting holes in a mini-ITX board line up with four of the holes in ATX-specification motherboards, and the locations of the backplate and expansion slot are the same (though one of the holes used was optional in earlier versions of the ATX spec). Mini-ITX boards can therefore often be used in cases designed for ATX, micro-ATX and other ATX variants if desired.

zuroph

ugh, start again so

Motherboard
http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=34892&agid=1292
€76 ex shipping

Case
http://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/3703154/art/maxinpower/b299cal000-desktop-pc-tow.html
€49.90 ex shipping

Processor
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/237554
€46.83 ex shipping


Wireless adaptor
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/155641
£13 ex shipping

TV card
blackgold BGT3595
~£140 inc shipping

my head is fried.


would the PSU with the case do the job?

Solitaire

That lot has €65 shipping! :eek: Not including the Blackgold :eek:

zuroph

:eek: wheres the cheapest to ship from? If I bought all from ebuyer maybe?

the pixmania shipping is disgusting!

zuroph

could I get away with a cheaper board now I'm looking at mATX?

zuroph

I'm on the verge of giving up! I thought I had it worked out!

Solitaire

Pixmania usually charge crazy shipping around Christmas then slowly go back to normal again. Only problem is that they forgot to do the second part this year :eek:

eBuyer has the cheapest shipping but their selection is variable. HWVS is €30 flat-fee but they usually have the best prices on parts. Pixmania's shipping is crazy and goes up at a strange rate when buying multiple items. Sometimes it can be less than HWVS for a whole system... and sometimes more

mATX is often cheaper but you'll find you're paying nearly as much for a mobo that has good onboard sound and a TOSLink output. A RealTek 7.1 chip minus TOSLink compatibility isn't as much. I'm not sure how well an entry-level CPU will deal with a high-end TV card like the BlackGold or an EyeSat as they're surprisingly bandwidth-intensive if they're handling more than one source/LNB Atom and possibly even Zacate or the aforementioned ULV Core2 might groan under the strain; a mobo supporting a discrete dual- or tri-core Athlon is a better idea as 3GHz is better than ~1.2! Alas, it pushes the price up.

Annoyingly, HWVS have rubbish low-end mATX cases (you'd be fine for gaming or workstation-class mATX cases there though ) so you're limited to mITX. An ECS H55H-I + i3-550 combo is a bit too pricey (albeit very powerful compared to even an Athlon2), AM2/AM3 mITX mobos are nowhere to be found, and while grabbing this and buying an old E6600/E5200/Q8200 second-hand for peanuts sounded like an epic trick, I suddenly realised that with no spare slot for a graphics card (the BlackGold would be taking up the single PCIe slot) you'd be stuck with the old onboard GPU, which is horrid and not really up to dealing with 1080p acceleration on its own

Solitaire

Argh! Second attempted build scuppered on eBuyer by the lack of decent mATX cases that cost less than elevrnty-seven quid :mad: Looks like its only Pixmania left!

Solitaire

...And Pixmania have no mATX mobos with decent onboard sound...

One... Two... Three...

zuroph

well i might pick the case up seperately elsewhere, if I can get a decent mATX/mini ITX build all from one place...

xcases in uk have some cheap options that arent totally offensive to the eye.

Also, I quite like the look of this one. next to no room for expansion, riser card used on the PCIe but would be very clean and tidy under tv. pricey shipping again.
http://cgi.ebay.ie/Black-UV-e-Mini-Slim-PC-Case-HTCP-Micro-ATX-Mini-ITX-/120679130182?pt=UK_Computing_DesktopComponents_RL&hash=item1c19096446#ht_6094wt_1070

tempted to build a case myself at this stage, been eyeing up that NES instructable

zuroph

hell, this guy is around the corner from me, could grab this for €20
http://www.adverts.ie/hardware/htpc-case-w-h-250w-psu/427042

zuroph

I can always replace the case with something nicer once the budget allows for it like?

Solitaire

marco - Atom will croak under the load of a modern OS. Zacate or the ULV C2Ds would fare far, far better, but might struggle with both a heavy OS and the BlackGold or similar taking up CPU cycles

zuroph

how can the acer aspire revo handle it all so effectively? If I could just add the tv card to that i'd just go that route!

AlmightyCushion

zuroph wrote: »

how can the acer aspire revo handle it all so effectively? If I could just add the tv card to that i'd just go that route!

You could get a usb tv card.