How to Use A Roundabout

PaddyTheNth

Welease wrote: »

the number of exits has been demonstrated to you as flawed numerous times

Do you mean flawed as an interpretation or flawed as an inherently worse method of choosing lanes? If it is the latter can you please point out where this has been done as the only argument which has been put forward for it is that we should do what our neighbours do (which isn't a bad argument, it just doesn't give any weight to the clock method being inherently better).

Zubeneschamali

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Imagine you are trying to explain the correct use of Irish roundabouts to a foreigner...

I have done, and it's a lot more straightforward than explaining it to you lot.

My theory: some of ye were taught to drive by hot girls, and your brains stopped working every time you got a lesson. Now when you think about the rules, it's just "roundabout, first, second, later exit, ooh, tight skirt!"

rickyjb

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I have done, and it's a lot more straightforward than explaining it to you lot.

My theory: some of ye were taught to drive by hot girls, and your brains stopped working every time you got a lesson. Now when you think about the rules, it's just "roundabout, first, second, later exit, ooh, tight skirt!"

You've obviously never met my driving instructor...

And you're wrong by the way, 4 exit roundabout, taking the 2nd exit (look at the approach sign) you take the left hand lane. Bring in your exit counting or clock methods if it has a crazy number of exits but anyone coming up to the OPs roundabout should be in the left lane, you don't know how far around the exit is as you approach (not that that matters anyway).

I can't believe the amount of argument there has been over this!!

And what do you mean by you lot, is that meant to be some kind of insult?

Zubeneschamali

rickyjb wrote: »

And you're wrong by the way, 4 exit roundabout, taking the 2nd exit (look at the approach sign) you take the left hand lane. Bring in your exit counting or clock methods if it has a crazy number of exits

You are the one introducing exit counting! There is no exit counting in the law, or in the Rules of the Road, or in the RSAs instructions for road testers.

All linked multiple times in this thread.

rickyjb

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

You are the one introducing exit counting! There is no exit counting in the law, or in the Rules of the Road, or in the RSAs instructions for road testers.

All linked multiple times in this thread.

The exit counting being discussed is for roundabouts with 3 or 5 or more exits, which I agree, it does become too ambiguous for. For a four exit roundabout it's straightforward. Look at the picture of the approach sign back at the start of the thread and tell me how anyone wanting to take the 2nd exit would be wrong in choosing the left lane as their approach?

And do you not remember your driving test? When you come up to roundabouts you're not told to go straight or right (or take the exit at 12:30 a.m.:rolleyes:) you're told to take the 1st exit or the 2nd exit or the 3rd exit.

Welease

PaddyTheNth wrote: »

Do you mean flawed as an interpretation or flawed as an inherently worse method of choosing lanes? If it is the latter can you please point out where this has been done as the only argument which has been put forward for it is that we should do what our neighbours do (which isn't a bad argument, it just doesn't give any weight to the clock method being inherently better).

Flawed as an interpretation of the rules.. As per the OP's query, the driver should be in the right hand lane, this is backed up by the rules of the road (Any exit past straight ahead), and clarified by the RSA themselves (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...p?t=2055998652)..

The rules of the road state nothing about exit number 2 etc.. so therefore it doesnt exist in the rules..

At this stage, we have the classic Irish driver situation.. The rules are crystal clear, there can be no doubt as to which lane choice is correct if you bother to read the rules.. But this is Ireland, and this is Irish drivers.. It is more important for them to backup and stick with their flawed interpretation of non existant rules, than to admit their misunderstanding and rectify their poor driving knowledge.. /golfclap

Big Nasty

Check This Out For Size!

-Chris-

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Check This Out For Size!

So how does that work? You stay in the left lane for the first two exits and then you're in the right for all subsequent exits? :)

*presuming it's Irish ROTR and not French

Zubeneschamali

rickyjb wrote: »

The exit counting being discussed is for roundabouts with 3 or 5 or more exits, which I agree, it does become too ambiguous for. For a four exit roundabout it's straightforward.

I agree that counting exits is straightforward. So is sticking one finger in your ear and singing "Happy Birthday".

Neither of them are in the law, or the rules of the road. So why are you bringing up "second exit"? It's irrelevant.

Look at the picture of the approach sign back at the start of the thread and tell me how anyone wanting to take the 2nd exit would be wrong in choosing the left lane as their approach?

Here:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Newport+NP20+6QP&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=11.175283,43.110352&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Newport,+Gwent+NP20+6QP,+United+Kingdom&layer=c&cbll=51.622086,-3.007641&panoid=0fYZ__LGuvPXRfHj_eB00g&cbp=13,216.09,,3,-2.29&ll=51.62221,-3.008331&spn=0.000848,0.001867&z=19

The second exit is clearly indicated as being to the right. It's a junction, you're going right, stay to the right.

Not the left.

The same law as any other junction.

do you not remember your driving test?

Not really, no. It was a simple 20 minute spin, 20 years ago.

PaddyTheNth

Welease wrote: »

Flawed as an interpretation of the rules.. As per the OP's query, the driver should be in the right hand lane, this is backed up by the rules of the road (Any exit past straight ahead), and clarified by the RSA themselves (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...p?t=2055998652)..

The rules of the road state nothing about exit number 2 etc.. so therefore it doesnt exist in the rules..

Thanks.

For the sake of consistency lets be clear and state that the clock method doesn't exist anywhere in the rules either.

Zubeneschamali

-Chris- wrote: »

So how does that work?

You run out the cannon on both sides before entering, and then it's full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes!

Iwannahurl

dougie-lampkin wrote: »

The number of exits method is obsolete with non-standard roundabouts. Here's two examples why (excuse my quick MS paint skills :pac:). Assume that you are entering from the black line at the bottom, there are two lanes in and one lane out on each exit, and you want to take the red exit.

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/144940/146476.png

Take Example A. According to you, you'd enter in the right hand lane, signalling right, and then move to the left and signal left after passing the second exit. That's hardly intuitive, and very confusing for any other cars trying to enter the roundabout. Whereas with the clock method, you're in the left lane, and indicate left at the second exit in this instance. Far more intuitive, and other motorists can see your intentions far easier.

Example B (OK, I forgot to rename it B in paint, but it's the bottom one :P). According to you, you'd enter in the left lane, and signal left after passing the first exit. So they would have you drive almost a full circle in the left lane, indicating left? That's also very unintuitive, why bother having a right lane at all? Plus to any motorist attempting to join the roundabout from the "first exit" (if that makes sense :pac:) could assume you're taking the first exit, and not indicating, leading to confusion. With the clock method, you signal right and enter in the right lane, and then signal left before taking the exit. That other motorise can now clearly see you're going past him, he must wait for you to pass.


Just two examples off the top of my head why the count-the-exits game is obsolete and downright dangerous. The rules Welease has posted above me are pretty much the clock method anyway, without mentioning the clock itself (which makes far more sense when you see a roundabout sign and can instantly decide which side of midday your exit is). I hadn't actually noticed the RSA stopped propagating the count-the-exits approach, since they're still using the same graphics. Still, it's a start



Later than straight ahead/180°/12 o' clock, whatever you want to call it? Does it really matter what it's referred to as, all of those terms point to the spot on the road directly opposite where you entered the roundabout.

Thanks for that graphic. Very helpful for visual/conceptual purposes, though I doubt there are many such 'extreme' left-sided roundabouts in real life!

I will continue to deconstruct this issue as and when I get time. A picture is emerging...

Welease

PaddyTheNth wrote: »

Thanks.

For the sake of consistency lets be clear and state that the clock method doesn't exist anywhere in the rules either.

Exactly it doesn't.. (but some peopel can and do use 12 o clock to denote "stright ahead" which works for me and others)

But the rules are crystal clear about which exit to take.. and those rules quiet clearly state the right hand lane... There should be no if's and but's about this..

It is shocking to see people continue to argue based on rules that don't actually exist, and even worse that they refuse to modify their behaviour when corrected.. but thats why a simple run down the motorway in Ireland will have you come across poor roundabout knowledge, terrible lane discipline (lane hogging) and other example of poor driving knowledge.

Welease

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Thanks for that graphic. Very helpful for visual/conceptual purposes, though I doubt there are many such 'extreme' left-sided roundabouts in real life!

I will continue to deconstruct this issue as and when I get time. A picture is emerging...

Can I suggest you avoid using roundabouts (or at the very minimum follow the specific advice given by the RSA on this thread and get in the correct lane) until you have completed your deconstruction?

The rules are crystal clear, the problem seems to be your unwillingness to accept your poor driving knowledge with regard to roundabouts.

Vertakill

Welease wrote: »

Exactly it doesn't.. (but some peopel can and do use 12 o clock to denote "stright ahead" which works for me and others)

But the rules are crystal clear about which exit to take.. and those rules quiet clearly state the right hand lane... There should be no if's and but's about this..

It is shocking to see people continue to argue based on rules that don't actually exist, and even worse that they refuse to modify their behaviour when corrected.. but thats why a simple run down the motorway in Ireland will have you come across poor roundabout knowledge, terrible lane discipline (lane hogging) and other example of poor driving knowledge.

I'm tired of this 'crystal clear' and 'fool proof' and 'simple' talk about the rules. They're none of those and you're kidding yourself if you believe that. Just because you happen to agree with them does not mean they're crystal clear.

If a large number of companies who earn a living based on teaching people good driving practice have conflicting methods to the RotR, then we have a problem.


Despite using the numbered exits method, in the vast majority of scenarios, I would be using the exact same lanes as the RotR method. That's obviously not ideal and I'll gladly change my ways if the RotR method if that's what I should be doing.

And as has been explained a few times already, a large portion of the problem is down to other things other than using the wrong lane.
I can't ever recall cutting someone off (and yes, I would notice) or being, properly, cut off on a roundabout in the last 4 years regardless of what lane I, or any other driver was in.

zynaps

-Chris- wrote: »

So how does that work? You stay in the left lane for the first two exits and then you're in the right for all subsequent exits? :)

*presuming it's Irish ROTR and not French

Or else you pass five exits in the left lane because the one you want is straight ahead at 12 o'clock

Actually the two times I've been there, it's just been a horrendous mess with people beeping at each other, meandering all over the place, jamming on the brakes etc. Chaos really!

Welease

Vertakill wrote: »

I'm tired of this 'crystal clear' and 'fool proof' and 'simple' talk about the rules. They're none of those and you're kidding yourself if you believe that. Just because you happen to agree with them does not mean they're crystal clear.

If a large number of companies who earn a living based on teaching people good driving practice have conflicting methods to the RotR, then we have a problem.

They rules are crystal clear... If the teaching methods used by some driving schools are not clear then you cannot blame the rules for this..

As I have asked several times, and people continue to ignore..

Look at the OP's original question..
Read the rules of the road (not your interpretation.. just read the ACTUAL rules)..
Tell me what lane you would choose? and why..

If you really are interested in understand the problem.. then do that one simple test for me..

Vertakill wrote: »

Despite using the numbered exits method, in the vast majority of scenarios, I would be using the exact same lanes as the RotR method.

So in a small minority of cases, you are willing to let your incorrect interpretation of the rules put you in the wrong lane and cause issues for other drivers? Why not just follow the rules 100%?

Vertakill wrote: »

And as has been explained a few times already, a large portion of the problem is down to other things other than using the wrong lane.
I can't ever recall cutting someone off (and yes, I would notice) or being, properly, cut off on a roundabout in the last 4 years regardless of what lane I, or any other driver was in.

Great.. Well I have driven all over the world in over 20 years on cars and motorbikes, and I have been cut up numerous times.. and almost daily on the Kilcock roundabout (where the idiots are actually taking the 3rd exit in the left lane).. What may not seem that bad in a car, is and can be lethal to someone on a motorbike..
I know an idiot near us who rips around in a soupped up piece of crap.. breaks speed limits and drives dangerously near schools/kids.. He hasn't killed anyone yet.. Does that make it ok? Of course roundabout discipline is not anywhere near as dangerous, but if you are not applying the rules correctly you are not applying the rules correctly irrespective of the results so far..

Iwannahurl

dougie-lampkin wrote: »

Of course, that's where ambiguity lands you. Seemingly quite literally every second person has the wrong idea, as seen in the other roundabout thread's poll.

I think you're right about every second person. That is confirmed by the c. 50/50 split in the poll.

dougie-lampkin wrote: »

Because it's a standard reference point that's a constant regardless of the roundabout or number of exits. And it divides a circle evenly. When all our roundabouts have 6 lanes in the future then maybe we'll need to consider quartering the roundabout rather than halving it. But by then we'll have hovercars and can avoid roundabouts altogether :pac:

"Straight ahead" as a 'geometric' reference (ie a line passing diametrically through the centre point of a circle) is indeed a constant. The number of exits on any given roundabout is also a constant. "Straight ahead" as a general reference to a physical exit on a real-world roundabout is not a constant, because there is significant variation in the layout of roundabouts (ie many do not match the 'standard' layout illustrated in the RoTR).

dougie-lampkin wrote: »

Because roundabouts are circular. Therefore the "half-way" point if you will is straight ahead. I don't like that term anyway, 180° is far less ambiguous. We're viewing a circle here (usually), it only makes sense to use degrees.

Roundabouts are circular, but for everyday purposes that is the limit of their geometry. The key real-world factors are the number of lanes and the location and number of exits -- the latter are often not distributed geometrically (eg in + format). Where a "straight ahead" exit does not exist, for some motorists at least "straight ahead" becomes an imaginary line, corresponding to Zero Degrees or 12 o'clock.

dougie-lampkin wrote: »

dougie-lampkin wrote: »

Because I for one (and I assume other posters are too) am interested as to the right way to tackle a roundabout, and why other people are wrong.

I can't help but get the feeling you're just trolling at this stage. Straight ahead is across from where you entered the roundabout. There's no philosophical reason for it, it's just plain old geometry. I'm sorry but I genuinely do not see the barrier to understanding what half a circle is?

I too am very interested in knowing why opinion is divided (as evidenced by in-thread arguments and the polarised poll results). That is why I am putting time and effort into this, as you are, so please do not try to suggest that I am trolling. I have already said that I am trying to deconstruct the problem by questioning assumptions.

dougie-lampkin wrote: »

What's less ambiguous than saying if you have to travel more than half way around the roundabout, take the right lane. Otherwise, take the left lane. The exit number system is unambiguous in definition but in practice just doesn't work. Hence why the RSA has abandoned it.

That's a fair point. The method you describe is a good one. However, IMO the method doesn't matter so much if (a) everybody uses the same method, and ideally (b) there are also compatible rules for designing roundabouts, as another poster suggested elsewhere.

The number-of-exits approach would be workable if all motorists used it. The Straight Ahead/Zero Degrees/Clock-Face method would be workable if all motorists used it.

Conflict about and on roundabouts arises partly because of inconsistent roundabout design but also because there are motorists out there who, in good faith, use different methods of navigating roundabouts.

Finally, some questions for your consideration.

• When did the RSA "abandon" the number-of-exits method? References/timeline.
• Did the RSA explicitly abandon/denounce/'repeal' the number-of-exits method, or was the abandonment just implicit in their revised RoTR?
• When did driving instructors start to teach the Clock Method? References/timeline.
• Do all driving instructors now teach the Clock Method?
• Why is the Clock Method not mentioned in the Rules of the Road or in RSA ads?
• What proportion of drivers on Irish roads would you estimate are using the Clock Method and what proportion are using the older number-of-exits method?

Zubeneschamali

Vertakill wrote: »

Just because you happen to agree with them does not mean they're crystal clear.

No-one has shown any ambiguity or lack of clarity in the current rules as written.

So far we've had:

1) The Rules of the Road used to be different.
2) This driving instructor teaches something different

These are true, but neither of them is a problem with the clarity of the current Rules as written.

The only attempt I've seen to point out a clarity problem is someone pretending not to know what left, right and straight on mean.

Vertakill

zynaps wrote: »

Or else you pass five exits in the left lane because the one you want is straight ahead at 12 o'clock

Actually the two times I've been there, it's just been a horrendous mess with people beeping at each other, meandering all over the place, jamming on the brakes etc. Chaos really!

Exactly. I think it's crazy letting people pass five exits in in the left lane... Like, seriously crazy. How the hell is a person supposed to exit the roundabout from the inner lane (having joined from the right lane) if there's a line of cars all bypassing exits in the left lane?

Welease wrote: »

Great.. Well I have driven all over the world in over 20 years on cars and motorbikes, and I have been cut up numerous times..

I'm sure there are people on our roads driving for 30+ years who haven't a fking clue what's going on at the best of times so 'x years' does nothing for me. I'm not saying you don't have a clue.. I'm just saying 'experience' only goes so far when you take into consideration the amount of bad habits most of us have.

Welease wrote: »

Look at the OP's original question..
Read the rules of the road (not your interpretation.. just read the ACTUAL rules)..
Tell me what lane you would choose? and why..

I'm not sure. Probably the left hand lane based on signage. But that roundabout isn't a million miles from the Newbridge roundabout that I posted earlier in the thread. The OP's roundabout exit veers to the left, whereas the Newbridge roundabout entry veers to the left... thus really stretching the clock method's validity.

Welease wrote: »

So in a small minority of cases, you are willing to let your incorrect interpretation of the rules put you in the wrong lane and cause issues for other drivers? Why not just follow the rules 100%?

You and vibe666 try and twist it to make it sound like I see a roundabout and I actively choose to disobey the rules of the road and cause anarchy on it?

I was taught something by a professional driving instructor and then it was compounded by a driving tester who saw it perfect.

Welease wrote: »

I know an idiot near us who rips around in a soupped up piece of crap.. breaks speed limits and drives dangerously near schools/kids.. He hasn't killed anyone yet.. Does that make it ok? Of course roundabout discipline is not anywhere near as dangerous, but if you are not applying the rules correctly you are not applying the rules correctly irrespective of the results so far..

Ridiculous comparison.

Welease

Vertakill wrote: »

I'm not sure. Probably the left hand lane based on signage. But that roundabout isn't a million miles from the Newbridge roundabout that I posted earlier in the thread. The OP's roundabout exit veers to the left, whereas the Newbridge roundabout entry veers to the left... thus really stretching the clock method's validity.

You are doing it again.. Where in the actual rules of the road does it mention clock faces? You also can't see signage from the photo..

You seem to want to continue to bring in non rules of the road elements to bolster your point..

What I am asking is.. forget all those other rules which dont exist in the RoTR.. look at the picture, and read the actual ROTR.. It seems obvious to me, the looking at the angle that the entry road is at (not the final kink).. look at the proposed exit.. it would obviously appear to be well beyond "straight ahead" therefore left lane is incorrect.. Would you not agree?

If you insist on worrying about the final kink in the road, then the proposed exit lane is even further past "straight ahead"..

Zubeneschamali

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I too am very interested in knowing why opinion is divided (as evidenced by in-thread arguments and the polarised poll results).

Because the Rules of the Road were updated in the 90s sometime, and they added the "1st exit, 2nd exit, later exits" language to explain how to navigate a simple 4-way roundabout with 2 lanes at the entry. This language wasn't in the Rules in the 80s when I learned to drive.

People (including the AA and driving instructors/schools) started applying this language as a strict rule for all roundabouts. Lots of people here obviously learned during this time, or from instructors who adopted that rule.

In 2006, they brought out a new RoR, and removed this misleading language. Here is a draft of the new version, which had both the clock rule and the 1st, 2nd later language. The final version removed both, sticking to the legal language of left, straight and right.

Welease

Vertakill wrote: »

You and vibe666 try and twist it to make it sound like I see a roundabout and I actively choose to disobey the rules of the road and cause anarchy on it?

I was taught something by a professional driving instructor and then it was compounded by a driving tester who saw it perfect.

with respect thats not what I am trying to do..You said you would like to understand why its not clear..

The first step in trying to understand the confusion is to isolate where the confusion begins.. If you do the simple test I asked using ONLY THE ROTR then you would likely come to the correct conclusion that right hand is the appropriate lane..

So that would mean the problem does not exist with the actual ROTR.. We could then look at the methods used by driving instructors, as that would be the next logical point for confusion to begin... As pointed out to Iwannahurl, why not ring your driving instructor school and question this anomoly? They have given you bad information on lane selection, and should be made aware.. The RSA have already commented saying the right hand lane is appropraite..

So it does seem that inadavertantly your driving instructor, not the rotr has caused your confusion (and other posters like zynaps have detailed why this confusion could have occurred several times)..

Welease

Iwannahurl wrote: »

"Straight ahead" as a 'geometric' reference (ie a line passing diametrically through the centre point of a circle) is indeed a constant.

Incorrect..

"Straight Ahead" as a reference is not a constant, it is relative to your position and direction which will be different depending on which entry point you are taking onto a roundabout.

PaddyTheNth

Welease wrote: »

But the rules are crystal clear about which exit to take.. and those rules quiet clearly state the right hand lane... There should be no if's and but's about this..

It is shocking to see people continue to argue based on rules that don't actually exist, and even worse that they refuse to modify their behaviour when corrected

I think people are arguing more about interpretations rather than rules. I don't think anyone is claiming that the rules say you should use a sequential method.

IMO the arguments are arising because the previous interpretation is not explicitly refuted by the explanation presented on the rotr.ie website - I can quite clearly see a picture of someone using the left lane for the second exit, and the right lane for any subsequent exit, so coming from a situation where I was taught and examined by instructors/testers who told me to count exits, I can look at that and think I'm still doing the right thing. If I read the text then it does describe a geometric instruction rather than a sequential one, and the 'clock' interpretation is more accurate than the sequential one. However it is not completely unambiguous (eg. 'later' can be applied to both the clock interpretation and the sequential one), and as the cliché goes, a picture tells a thousand words.

What I would still contest is that a sequential rule would be better than a geometric one in terms of consistency, ease of use and therefore safety.

Zubeneschamali

PaddyTheNth wrote: »

What I would still contest is that a sequential rule would be better than a geometric one in terms of consistency, ease of use and therefore safety.

Well, that's a different issue, and would require the law to be changed.

Vertakill

Welease wrote: »

The first step in trying to understand the confusion is to isolate where the confusion begins.. If you do the simple test I asked using ONLY THE ROTR then you would likely come to the correct conclusion that right hand is the appropriate lane..

Apologies, I was giving the answer based on what I was taught - I didn't cop that you were looking for my answer based on the RotR.

I understand both methods fine as I said.

My understanding was that the numbering lane exit approach is safer than the RSA's method (and I still believe that), topped off with instructors and testers input.

Welease

PaddyTheNth wrote: »

I think people are arguing more about interpretations rather than rules. I don't think anyone is claiming that the rules say you should use a sequential method.

But if that were true, then people would not still be claiming that the left lane is correct. There are people still claiming the left land is the correct lane.

They are usign their own taught interpretations to define lane choices, and for whatever reason refuse to modify this view even when presented with the correct interpretation of the rules, email from the RSA confirming the rules, exact copies of the rules and the rational behind why their interpretations are incorrect and how that occured (and what the RSA did to clarify the confusion)..

PaddyTheNth wrote: »

IMO the arguments are arising because the previous interpretation is not explicitly refuted by the explanation presented on the rotr.ie website - I can quite clearly see a picture of someone using the left lane for the second exit, and the right lane for any subsequent exit, so coming from a situation where I was taught and examined by instructors/testers who told me to count exits, I can look at that and think I'm still doing the right thing. If I read the text then it does describe a geometric instruction rather than a sequential one, and the 'clock' interpretation is more accurate than the sequential one. However it is not completely unambiguous (eg. 'later' can be applied to both the clock interpretation and the sequential one), and as the cliché goes, a picture tells a thousand words.

What I would still contest is that a sequential rule would be better than a geometric one in terms of consistency, ease of use and therefore safety.

Agreed.. but what would be better for people to follow the rotr as defined simply.. rather than have to come up with their own interpretations (or continue to use outdated confusing interpretations)..
The rotr themselves are simple enough without the need for further interpretations.

Welease

Vertakill wrote: »

Apologies, I was giving the answer based on what I was taught - I didn't cop that you were looking for my answer based on the RotR.

I understand both methods fine as I said.

My understanding was that the numbering lane exit approach is safer than the RSA's method (and I still believe that), topped off with instructors and testers input.

But how can you continue to believe that being in the wrong lane is safer? That is what you appear to be stating..

The rotr clearly define the lane choice as being the right lane..

This has been explained, the RSA have confirmed it. people have taken the time to explain why this is so, and why the numbered method breaks the rules, and even gone so far as to explain why the confusion probably occured and when/how the RSA modified to the explanations used to eradicate this confusion..

I can understand the confusion from someone who was not given that level of information, but people on this thread have been given it, and to continue to utilise a rule which puts them in the wrong lane is a staggering indictment of their lack of driving ability. (I should add, i dont want that to be seen as a personal attack on you.. i just cannot understand why people cannot and will not modify their incorrect beliefs on driving in this country, even when the case has been proven over an over.. and they cannot refute the actual rules of the road).

rickyjb

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Not really, no. It was a simple 20 minute spin, 20 years ago.

Well if you did you would remember the instructor telling you what number to take. This is because left/right/straight may not always make it clear which exit you intend to take, hence 1st 2nd 3rd exit etc. There's no other clear unambiguous way to do it.