Joan Accuses Brown (Sunday Headline)

Fitzerb

Joan has just claimed that VB is sexist bully in the headline of the Irish Mail

Has she lost it completely. How is Quinn allowing this stuff get to the papers. If they cant manage this little problem (Joan) i wonder how they will manage Barroso. What is she going to call him as we look for a better interest rate ??... She is a WMD
(Weapon of mass destruction)

Surely Lab have to sack her.

Wide Road

Crazy stuff from Joan. The obvious question now is did the Labour Party know and agree with Joan's latest outburst with the Sunday Mail. Or is this story just plucked out of the sky?

Sardonicat

Have you seen the article? Is joan referring to her recent appearance on tonight with vb or just making a genereal accusation against him?

I saw the show, the only bullying i could see was coming from joan! This is not good for labour, especially now that ff have started to make noises indicating they would support a minority fg government. (I will emigrate to the moon should that come to pass.)

Biggins

First of all ...its the Mail!
Second, she better be able to back up her accusations or there might be hell to pay!
Third, you just know VB will go on the offensive and be backed by his station (if only for further own publicity reasons).

Killer Pigeon

I'll comment when I see this quoted from another newspaper.

ArtSmart

or an actual link please

ISAW

Fitzerb wrote: »

Joan has just claimed that VB is sexist bully in the headline of the Irish Mail

Has she lost it completely. How is Quinn allowing this stuff get to the papers. If they cant manage this little problem (Joan) i wonder how they will manage Barroso. What is she going to call him as we look for a better interest rate ??... She is a WMD
(Weapon of mass destruction)

Surely Lab have to sack her.

Imagine if things changed in Italy and Berlisconi stood down and ran for and got Barroso's job?

Wide Road

ISAW wrote: »

Imagine if things changed in Italy and Berlisconi stood down and ran for and got Barroso's job?

Imagine if the story is true in Sundays Mail. Eamon has some questions to answer, thanks to Joan.

kraggy

Fitzerb wrote: »

Joan has just claimed that VB is sexist bully in the headline of the Irish Mail

Has she lost it completely. How is Quinn allowing this stuff get to the papers. If they cant manage this little problem (Joan) i wonder how they will manage Barroso. What is she going to call him as we look for a better interest rate ??... She is a WMD
(Weapon of mass destruction)

Surely Lab have to sack her.

Quinn? Eamon Gilmore is leader, not Ruairi.

Or are you talking about someone else?

ISAW

ArtSmart wrote: »

or an actual link please

Here's one for yesteryear.
http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2010/05/13/00004.asp
starts on page 7
the same hallmarks
- accuse the person moderating the discussion of sexism and of bias
- go off topic, ignore the rules, bait others

[7]Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton Zoom on Joan Burton A Cheann Comhairle, sometimes your sexism gets the best of you. The Tánaiste and I are perfectly capable of putting up with it and ignoring it——

Deputy Dermot Ahern: Information on Dermot Ahern Zoom on Dermot Ahern The Ceann Comhairle has been accused of a lot in his time.

Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton Zoom on Joan Burton ——but you allowed the Deputy from Cavan-Monaghan and the Leader of Fine Gael to raise the issue and you did not interrupt or barrack them.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk Zoom on Seamus Kirk I allowed Deputy Burton to raise it as well. I am drawing her attention to the fact that I will not allow a detailed contribution at this point in time. There will be other opportunities, as the Tánaiste has indicated.

Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton Zoom on Joan Burton There will not be. I want to know if the Government will lay the document before the House for discussion and when it will provide time for the debate.

I also want to know whether the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance have made a prior agreement in Brussels, before coming to this House, to yield to proposals from the Commission about the future direction and management of Irish budgets. That is the sovereign issue in this Parliament. Does this Parliament decide our budget or is the budget agreed privately in Brussels beforehand?

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk Zoom on Seamus Kirk It is entirely inappropriate to make these——

Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton Zoom on Joan Burton Sorry; it is not inappropriate.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk Zoom on Seamus Kirk It is entirely inappropriate and I will not allow it.

Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton Zoom on Joan Burton It is not inappropriate.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk Zoom on Seamus Kirk The Deputy will have to resume her seat if she persists with that line of argument. It is entirely inappropriate. If she has a direct question on promised legislation, I will allow it. It is completely out of order to have a detailed contribution on what is a very serious issue in a time-limited Order of Business and I will not allow it.

Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton Zoom on Joan Burton Why is the Ceann Comhairle afraid of the sovereign Parliament of this Chamber having a debate?

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk Zoom on Seamus Kirk I am not afraid.

Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton Zoom on Joan Burton What is he afraid of? Why is he protecting Fianna Fáil?

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk Zoom on Seamus Kirk This House is governed by Standing Orders and my obligations are to implement the Standing Orders.

Deputy Michael Mulcahy: Information on Michael Mulcahy Zoom on Michael Mulcahy Hear, hear.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk Zoom on Seamus Kirk If Deputy Burton and other Members wish to change them, there is a procedure for doing so.

Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton Zoom on Joan Burton When is the Commission document being laid before the House? When will there be a debate, as befits a sovereign parliament? The Commission is talking about very important historic changes in the budgetary process.

[8]An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk Zoom on Seamus Kirk Deputy Burton has made the point and I will allow the Tánaiste to respond.

Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton Zoom on Joan Burton It is an entirely reasonable question about whether those changes and their structure will be debated in this Chamber. That is all I am asking.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk Zoom on Seamus Kirk Okay, fine. Will Deputy Burton now resume her seat? I call Deputy Ó Caoláin.

Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton Zoom on Joan Burton That is all I am asking.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk Zoom on Seamus Kirk Fine, okay.

Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton Zoom on Joan Burton I have several other questions.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk Zoom on Seamus Kirk Will Deputy Burton resume her seat, please?

Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton Zoom on Joan Burton I want to ask the Ceann Comhairle’s advice.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton Zoom on Joan Burton If the Ceann Comhairle can advise me again, he allowed Deputy Kenny——

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk Zoom on Seamus Kirk I allowed Deputy Burton as well, for goodness' sake.

Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton Zoom on Joan Burton The chorus is exhilarating. Please keep it up. Come on, lads, come on.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk Zoom on Seamus Kirk Deputy Burton, will you resume your seat?

Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton Zoom on Joan Burton Let us hear it. There is hardly a squeak out of them.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk Zoom on Seamus Kirk Will the Deputy resume her seat? I call Deputy Ó Caoláin.

Deputy Joan Burton: Information on Joan Burton Zoom on Joan Burton Can we have an answer from the Tánaiste? Will the Ceann Comhairle allow the muinteoir? Come on, do not go silent on me.

Deputy Dermot Ahern: Information on Dermot Ahern Zoom on Dermot Ahern Deputy Burton will be at the back of the class.

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk Zoom on Seamus Kirk Will Members refrain from engaging with the Deputy across the floor?

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin: Information on Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin Zoom on Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin Somewhat on the same issue——

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle: Information on Seamus Kirk Zoom on Seamus Kirk Minus the embellishment, please. We do not need embellishment.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin: Information on Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin Zoom on Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin No embellishments here.

Deputy Noel Dempsey: Information on Noel Dempsey Zoom on Noel Dempsey In Deputy Ó Caoláin’s case, impossible.

As regards the manner in which it was said look here:
https://www.tv3.ie/article.php?article_id=37516&locID=1.2.139.&pagename=news

PS I note the official record does not have "petrol blue"

Fitzerb

kraggy wrote: »

Quinn? Eamon Gilmore is leader, not Ruairi.

Or are you talking about someone else?

Ruairi is your director of elections...... Thought you would have known that

Wide Road

Fitzerb wrote: »

Ruairi is your director of elections...... Thought you would have known that

Yeah, but technically the election hasn't been called yet. My point still stands, if the article is true, did Eamon & the Labour Party know?

Liam Byrne

Whatever about the actual issue (which, as others have said, needs to appear in a credible newspaper to be taken seriously) I cannot see how the OP has managed to twist it in order to cast doubt re Barruso.

Typical FF mud-slinging.

Wide Road

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Whatever about the actual issue (which, as others have said, needs to appear in a credible newspaper to be taken seriously) I cannot see how the OP has managed to twist it in order to cast doubt re Barruso.

Typical FF mud-slinging.

Whatever about the twist, have you any opinion on the thread?

Dannyboy83

Amazing.

She should worry less about discrimination on grounds of gender, and more about discrimination on grounds of idiocy!

kraggy

Fitzerb wrote: »

Ruairi is your director of elections...... Thought you would have known that

Director of Elections decides election strategy, which candidates run in each constituency (varies from party to party how this works) etc.

The party leader is the one who reins in a TD/candidate when they're making buffoons of themselve and shaming the party image.

Fitzerb

Wide Road wrote: »

Yeah, but technically the election hasn't been called yet. My point still stands, if the article is true, did Eamon & the Labour Party know?

I doubt if they knew.

You dont have to call an election to have a director of elections. Quinn is working on this job for a few months now

Fitzerb

kraggy wrote: »

Director of Elections decides election strategy, which candidates run in each constituency (varies from party to party how this works) etc.

The party leader is the one who reins in a TD/candidate when they're making buffoons of themselve and shaming the party image.

Director of Election manages everything that goes to the press. He controls the PR people of the party for the duration of his post.
He does not decide the strategy or who goes in each constituency. That is usually done by a an election working group with the leader having the final say in cases of dispute. Once that strategy is agreed its his job to implement it.

Wide Road

Fitzerb wrote: »

I doubt if they knew.

You dont have to call an election to have a director of elections. Quinn is working on this job for a few months now

Not good enough. We need to know if the Labour Party knew about Joan being front page news on Mail on Sunday. If they did, well it says enough about them. If they didn't, what are they going to do about it, ie sacking her

Fitzerb

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Whatever about the actual issue (which, as others have said, needs to appear in a credible newspaper to be taken seriously) I cannot see how the OP has managed to twist it in order to cast doubt re Barruso.

Typical FF labour mud-slinging.

Did you mean Labour Mud Slinging or perhaps I may have confused the issue. Let me try again

Joan the moan is behaving like a child. I have never seen anything like her behaviour on VB. I thought it was a impression take at first. This person is deputy leader of a party that wants to be in Government. Her behaviour was not rational, "Vincent your haranging me" .... WOW, I dont fancy her to do any negotiations on the tax payers behalf if she behaves like that.

Fitzerb

Wide Road wrote: »

Not good enough. We need to know if the Labour Party knew about Joan being front page news on Mail on Sunday. If they did, well it says enough about them. If they didn't, what are they going to do about it, ie sacking her

Well sorry but I cant help there, I don't know if they did or didn't know.

Perhaps more will be revealed tomorrow... should be fun

Wide Road

Fitzerb wrote: »

Well sorry but I cant help there, I don't know if they did or didn't know.

Perhaps more will be revealed tomorrow... should be fun

Let's hope we will know if the Labour Party gave Joan their blessing regarding the Mail on Sunday. The truth is vital.

Min

Sardonicat wrote: »

Have you seen the article? Is joan referring to her recent appearance on tonight with vb or just making a genereal accusation against him?

I saw the show, the only bullying i could see was coming from joan! This is not good for labour, especially now that ff have started to make noises indicating they would support a minority fg government. (I will emigrate to the moon should that come to pass.)

She made claims about her appearance on the show and about Vincent Browne in general.

She has really shot herself in both feet now.

Liam Byrne

Wide Road wrote: »

Whatever about the twist, have you any opinion on the thread?

Answered already

needs to appear in a credible newspaper to be taken seriously

Daily Mail is a step down from the Sindo.

Strange how some people take unsubstantiated tabloid headlines as fact on certain subjects and yet tell us we have to wait until due process is followed for others.

Bias is an awful thing.

sligopark

Don't you love it when someone who clearly has no answers, successfully manages to create a sideshow to avoid being found out.

Fitzerb

sligopark wrote: »

Don't you love it when someone who clearly has no answers, successfully manages to create a sideshow to avoid being found out.

I agree

Fitzerb

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Answered already



Daily Mail is a step down from the Sindo.

Strange how some people take unsubstantiated tabloid headlines as fact on certain subjects and yet tell us we have to wait until due process is followed for others.

Bias is an awful thing.

Do you find it strange that when Daily Mail Headline are about other parties they dont need to be substantiated but when about Labour they need to be verified.
I doubt people who saw Moan of Arc on VB need any due process to know what she is like. Labour should dump her now they are already down 11% since September, If she keeps this up she will cost her DL buddies the Merc.

you are correct Bias is an awful thing.:D

mr j tayto

Bye Bye Joan you had your chance and you well and truly blew it.

Sir Oxman

I'd like to see the article if anyone has a link? Or a scan?
The Mail has done some good work exposing the expenses scandal but at least the Indo has their actual articles online.

Essexboy

When you are in a hole stop digging!

Someone should have told Joan of this saw.

DeVore

Dear God that woman is annoying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG_ii1xiYOU

Labour will be a disaster for this country because they wont tackle the deficit and they have conniving idiots like her.

DeV.

Sir Oxman

http://twitpic.com/3uuamf

Scan of article thanks to David Cochrane


It's not as bad as the headline (and why it was the main story I can only guess)
She's wrong about VB harrassing her and she'd want to get her media analyst to be a bit truthful in telling her how she acted and how it came across, the sexist thing is foolish but she is right about VB and his style.
I like teh show and sometimes he gets the politicos to admit something they shouldn't but he can be very, very annoying and egotistical.

I'm still confused as to why this is a frontpage headline...?

Biggins

gambiaman wrote: »

...I'm still confused as to why this is a frontpage headline...?

Its a cheap tabloid, 'nuff said!

Min

It is a front page headline because Vincent Browne will be interviewing people from the Labour party during the election, Joan made some nasty comments about Browne on the paper.
If TV3 are hosting one of the debates...then Joan has come out in the paper and questioned if VB is impartial, she accused VB of being partial to Joe Higgins.

The article in question comes with lots of quotes from Joan and she does herself no favours.

Sir Oxman

Min wrote: »

It is a front page headline because Vincent Browne will be interviewing people from the Labour party during the election, Joan made some nasty comments about Browne on the paper.
If TV3 are hosting one of the debates...then Joan has come out in the paper and questioned if VB is impartial, she accused VB of being partial to Joe Higgins.

The article in question comes with lots of quotes from Joan and she does herself no favours.

A frontpage headline? Really?

Fitzerb

Biggins wrote: »

Its a cheap tabloid, 'nuff said!

same as the cheap tabloid headlines of the past six months......

You are dead right "Enough Said"

Sir Oxman

DeVore wrote: »

Dear God that woman is annoying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG_ii1xiYOU

Labour will be a disaster for this country because they wont tackle the deficit and they have conniving idiots like her.

DeV.

That's not what their policy document says.

Fitzerb

gambiaman wrote: »

http://twitpic.com/3uuamf

Scan of article thanks to David Cochrane


It's not as bad as the headline (and why it was the main story I can only guess)
She's wrong about VB harrassing her and she'd want to get her media analyst to be a bit truthful in telling her how she acted and how it came across, the sexist thing is foolish but she is right about VB and his style.
I like teh show and sometimes he gets the politicos to admit something they shouldn't but he can be very, very annoying and egotistical.

I'm still confused as to why this is a frontpage headline...?

Christ, Moan of Arc had a media analyst tell her VB interrupted her 52 times and interrupted SC so many times. Christ if she is having this service now just imagine the cost of PR for her in Government. Why didnt she go to you tube and the count the interruptions herself. Lazy git.

Sir Oxman

Fitzerb wrote: »

Christ, Moan of Arc had a media analyst tell her VB interrupted her 52 times and interrupted SC so many times. Christ if she is having this service now just imagine the cost of PR for her in Government. Why didnt she go to you tube and the count the interruptions herself. Lazy git.

LOL.
That bit had me scratching my head - she should fire the media analyst cos he/she is keeping the truth from her.

sollar

If she can't see how she came across badly in that interview then she is clueless and doesn't deserve to serve in gvernment

Min

gambiaman wrote: »

A frontpage headline? Really?

Yeah, I know, you would swear that it was an issue with a topic on the biggest internet forum in Ireland with over 200 replies and the VB appearance was still an issue days after the event...

Of course no one has any interest in the story...

Dirk Gently

Fitzerb wrote: »

Christ, Moan of Arc had a media analyst tell her VB interrupted her 52 times and interrupted SC so many times. Christ if she is having this service now just imagine the cost of PR for her in Government. Why didnt she go to you tube and the count the interruptions herself. Lazy git.

was she really interrupted 52 times, or was she interrupted from interrupting 52 times. The less ranting she does and the more she answers questions put to her in a reasonable fashion then the less she will be interrupted.

Frankly if she is pushing the sexist card as a licence for herself to be as obnoxious as she wants and throw around accusations without consequence then she should be expelled from the Labour party and feminists and equality campaigners should come out and condemn her actions as it demeans people who have genuinely experienced sexism in the workplace.

Sir Oxman

Min wrote: »

Yeah, I know, you would swear that it was an issue with a topic on the biggest internet forum in Ireland with over 200 replies and the VB appearance was still an issue days after the event...

Of course no one has any interest in the story...

In which thread I posted my fair share - if that's the criteria for frontpage headline making in this country then this should make their next frontpage.
Biggins answered my question succinctly.

M cebee

she's prob been watching that nonsense with the lineswoman:)

and reckons she can capitalise on it

later12

clown bag wrote: »

Frankly if she is pushing the sexist card as a licence for herself to be as obnoxious as she wants and throw around accusations without consequence then she should be expelled from the Labour party and feminists and equality campaigners should come out and condemn her actions as it demeans people who have genuinely experienced sexism in the workplace.

I agree and I think to accuse Vincent Browne of sexism in this instance, if that is what Joan Burton is really doing, is totally without basis. Nobody was making an issue out of her gender, she was being totally unreasonable in shouting down her fellow contributor and Vincent Browne himself. She is a political embarrassment in detracting from and debasing the rather serious issue of sexism in political and professional life which I'm sure in many cases can be quite serious.

Liam Byrne

Fitzerb wrote: »

Do you find it strange that when Daily Mail Headline are about other parties they dont need to be substantiated but when about Labour they need to be verified.

Care to cite any examples ? I know for a fact that I don't take Sindo or equivalent red-tops as fact.

I noticed another post above that says that the article doesn't even support the headline.

If Joan Burton has overstepped the mark, then she - like all crap & dodgy politicians - needs to be gotten rid of. Absolutely no bias on my part there, if that's what you're trying to insinuate.

But since the standard has been set that some posters excuse the likes of Ahern & Callely & O'Dea, they can't be the ones objecting, now can they ?

Fitzerb

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Care to cite any examples ? I know for a fact that I don't take Sindo or equivalent red-tops as fact.

I noticed another post above that says that the article doesn't even support the headline.

If Joan Burton has overstepped the mark, then she - like all crap & dodgy politicians - needs to be gotten rid of. Absolutely no bias on my part there, if that's what you're trying to insinuate.

But since the standard has been set that some posters excuse the likes of Ahern & Callely & O'Dea, they can't be the ones objecting, now can they ?

I think the IF part is pushing it a bit.

Ahern is gone as is O Dea (until next election) and Callely is finished, so not much point in going there. I think its great to see "some" posters now holding all politicians to task if they dont get up onto their high moral ground. You know "One rule for all" and all that wonderful stuff.
So no doubt "someone" will start a thread seeking Joans resignation as soon as the IF is clarified.

Liam Byrne

Fitzerb wrote: »

I think the IF part is pushing it a bit.

Ahern is gone as is O Dea (until next election) and Callely is finished, so not much point in going there.

Why not ? Why is O'Dea only gone "until next election" ? If you apply the same logic, Burton could be back in "after next election" and you wouldn't have an argument about it.

Fitzerb wrote: »

I think its great to see "some" posters now holding all politicians to task if they dont get up onto their high moral ground. You know "One rule for all" and all that wonderful stuff.
So no doubt "someone" will start a thread seeking Joans resignation as soon as the IF is clarified.

Well, to my knowledge I've never done otherwise, other put my own convictions aside to point out inconsistencies in how other posters excuse one "side" (even though that phrase doesn't even apply) more than the other.

I might even start that thread myself if it's clarified.

Given a previous article that you linked to where you (and, to be fair, the attention-seeking "editor" who didn't obviously base headlines on facts) claimed that Varadkar had retracted his cronyism statement and needed to resign, as distinct from the facts which were that Varadkar had qualified his statement, I'll await an actual article from a reputable paper that doesn't have an exaggerated headline.

Fitzerb

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Why not ? Why is O'Dea only gone "until next election" ? If you apply the same logic, Burton could be back in "after next election" and you wouldn't have an argument about it.




Well, to my knowledge I've never done otherwise, other put my own convictions aside to point out inconsistencies in how other posters excuse one "side" (even though that phrase doesn't even apply) more than the other.

I might even start that thread myself if it's clarified.

Given a previous article that you linked to where you (and, to be fair, the attention-seeking "editor" who didn't obviously base headlines on facts) claimed that Varadkar had retracted his cronyism statement and needed to resign, as distinct from the facts which were that Varadkar had qualified his statement, I'll await an actual article from a reputable paper that doesn't have an exaggerated headline.

Well I can only forward that when you tell me what in your considerations are reputable newspapers. Or do they change every day depending on the populace headline thats to your liking.

Liam Byrne

Fitzerb wrote: »

Well I can only forward that when you tell me what in your considerations are reputable newspapers. Or do they change every day depending on the populace headline thats to your liking.

No, it doesn't change at all, but I strongly suspect you knew that before you continued your post with the bull that started at "Or do they change....."

We've been down this road before with you throwing in extra pointless and unsubstantiated digs in order to discredit and cast doubt over my posts; it might be a tactic that FF promotes, and some people might fall for it or even find it funny, but if you want to engage in conversation with me I would request that you avoid such tactics because they're pretty sad, really.

BTW, I think the word you wanted was "populist"; the sentence would still have been completely wrong and unsubstantiated, but it would have been what you intended to say.

ISAW

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Whatever about the actual issue (which, as others have said, needs to appear in a credible newspaper to be taken seriously) I cannot see how the OP has managed to twist it in order to cast doubt re Barruso.

Typical FF mud-slinging.

given my reference to her using the same "you are sexist" tactic in the past,

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=70359262&postcount=10

I think the poster might be suggesting she may well use it elsewhere in the future.
If she can use it on the chair of the house why not the Chair of any commission or committee?